e1ghtyf1ve

That just about sums it up perfectly, imho.

Look closely at the product pictures - this thing has no usable i/o. You would need to buy accessories to hook up mics. If the headphone jack is used for "line in" you can forget monitoring or checking input levels. Too many hoops to jump through. Look, Hi-MD and iPod address very different markets. There is no competition - there never was. See, iRiver (what's with this i-crap, anyway?) had decent recording flash players, the iFP-7xx-8xx series back in 2004. You could switch line-in to mic-in, monitor, even set levels (but they had no level meters, no biggie). It was all built-in. Best quality was 44.1kHz 320kbps MP3, stereo, very high S/N, about 90dB. Not too shabby at all. Now, their new 2005 players have lost almost all ability to record. The ones that can require accessories! What it boils down to is this: The player market will always be bigger than the distinct, separate recording market because the "powers that be" want you to buy the rights to listen to their garbage content at inflated prices instead of creating your own. It's that simple. Sony has nothing to worry about in this case, they have their own award winning, high quality HD players. Sony also sells far more audio equipment than Apple ever will. (I'm an Apple fan, I love their computers. Typing this on my Powerbook.) So the next time some iPodder gets in your face, tell them that you prefer quality over quantity, and on top of that, in a pinch, your Hi-MD can double as a studio deck! Not that you would actually want to use it for this purpose, but you could if you had to. Enough said, and that's all the iPodders need to know. Cheers

Sigh. Can you set record levels? How about mic sensitivity? Does it finally have decent DACs? (The other iPods don't IMHO.) Does it have decent ADCs? So far, I've found that only professional equipment can beat Sony's sweet sounding 20-bit ADCs they put in their consumer equipment. Where is the noise floor? How about finally giving us a user-replaceable battery? Will the hard drive crash if I start to jog? People buy iPods to make a statement. Too many obviously care only about quantity, not quality ("how much crap can I put on this thing?"). Same with video - no quality is remotely possible on a small screen like that. My VGA pocket pc (made in Taiwan) has a much larger, better screen and I have been encoding movies for PPCs since 2003. What's so special? Another US marketing company peddling cheaply made, yet expensive Chinese products? Yawn. Wake me when there is a real alternative, thanks! Cheers

In this particular situation, it really boils down to what the capabilities of the camera are and what quality you are looking for. Mini-DV cams record selectably 12- or 16-bit PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) digital audio onto tape. The more expensive models of these sometimes allow you to set record levels, but most consumer ones just use AGC (Auto Gain Control) and compress the sound; i.e. loud sounds are turned down and soft sounds are turned up. This may not do justice to your good pair of mics, but at least your audio is already synchronized with the video. A Hi-MD recorder such as the MZ-RH10 ($299.99 at Fry's, highly recommended) allows you to adjust the recording quality (such as levels) and unlike Mini-DV tape allows faster than real-time transfers to your computer for mixing etc. Hi-MD PCM audio quality matches or beats that of the very best professional Mini-DV cams, but the rub here is that with Hi-MD you will need to manually synchronize your audio track to the video. I'm told that this is fairly simple - others on this board may be able to guide you. For what it's worth, most video professionals use outboard digital audio recorders such as DAT or (Hi-)MD for their projects. Cheers

Well said!! Back to Hi-MD - the local Fry's store just got in a bunch of RH910s and about 100 blue Hi-MD blanks. They had the RH10s but those apparently went out the door pretty quickly. Can you beat that! I just wonder how many customers are using them as recorders? It says "player" on the blister package ("MP3 Player" sticker!!), not Recorder. Crazy. As I type this, I'm enjoying the incredible sound of a DAT walkman using some tapes I recorded a while ago. What a rugged machine - solid metal construction with real metallic enamel paint, durable, never skips, even when recording. It just keeps on going and going... Yes, tape. My expensive flash recorders were cheaply made plastic junk by comparison (if there even can be one). They even sounded cheap, somehow. I had temporarily succumbed to the neat idea of having no moving parts to worry about. In my area Hi-MD blanks go for about $6.00 whereas 1G CF cards sell for $90 - $110! No contest. The prices are NOT falling quickly by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, by the way, even when flash prices come down, the format still has issues (contact problems and static discharge damage come immediately to mind). MO media remain an excellent long term option and come in handy sizes. Cheers

I use Adobe Audition 1.5 $300 with great results. For a free solution, you can try Audacity as Syrius already suggested: Audacity Download Happy recording!

I'm assuming that this topic will be moved elsewhere by the moderators, so I will add some more thoughts. This is very interesting reading, and reminds me of the arguments I made in an earlier post: e1ghtyf1ve's drivel Keep in mind that Core Sound sells the Microtrack, so why should they be worried? Another thing I keep noticing is that too many competitive products are constantly compared to MD or DAT, but not Hi-MD. We own DAT, MD, HD, CF, Open Reel, and cassette decks, mostly top-of-the-line. Hi-MD is one of the best sounding/recording technologies I have ever auditioned, and I believe that only Sony's clumsy marketing, particularly in North America (still a large market), coupled with their dual-personality syndrome (content provider), has prevented it from gaining wider acceptance. Still, I'd dare wager that Sony has already sold more Hi-MD recorders than M-Audio will with the Microtrack in a lifetime.

We seriously need to post a sign somewhere that says: "Please don't feed the trolls!" ...and I need to follow my own advice. Cheers PS Can you say overpriced junk? The only quality parts are the CF cards/microdrives. Those must be purchased ($$$) separately.

I've been thinking about these questions as well. What follows is my opinion only. Actually, the players aren't quite there yet either. Companies like iRiver etc. are relative newcomers. Sony and Sharp have had literally decades to refine their proprietary circuits including D/A A/D converters, amplifiers and so forth, and they apparently are not willing to share secrets with the Koreans. Sony has contributed substantially to the "fine art" of digital audio recording since the 70's. MD technology itself has been much more refined over the years and the differences are audible. However, more casual digital audio player consumers listen to the latest loud noise than, say, solo violin, I'd wager. Differences in playback (let alone recording) quality are thus lost in all that racket. So MD will probably remain in its niche, where it belongs. (Sony tacking on "MP3 Digital Audio Player" on their Hi-MD machines cracks me up. ) Listening to my own flash recorders, I'm thinking that we've got a long way to go, baby. Let's not mince words: it's pretty ghastly sound, actually. Ear fatigue sets in, and the fun is over fast. A top notch analog cassette recorder sounds better. It takes more than just programming ARM assembly MP3/Ogg/WMA decoders to get true audiophile sound. The support circuitry has to be there, too, and that's where the flash player/recorder manufacturers have to work on before they can become competitive in the audio quality department. Do I have a case of sour grapes? You betcha. I spent far too much money on overpriced junk. Live and learn! Cheers

Plug in your M100 to your Mac via USB port. OS X should automagically mount the recorder as an external drive. You should see a toplevel folder called HIMDHIFI when you open the icon on your desktop. It would be great if you could record several *short* tracks in PCM mode and zip up the resulting HIMDHIFI to send to your friendly neighborhood hacker Cheers EDIT: I strongly suspect that the new M series differ from the RH machines only in the color of the cabinet and the USB Device ID, and it is precisely here where the Mac software can tell the attached devices apart from each other

There apparently is a way: See Andicillo's posts above.

I'm amazed that HHB, in this marketplace for small independant hardware manufacturers, isn't itself dead. That said, the continual Hi-MD vs. MD confusion highlights Sony's clumsy marketing. Potential customers may be intelligent, but they are snowed by a player only world (iPod). So pro model portable flash and hd recorders sell, even though many machines, with crummy input circuits, are basically junk. With the noise problems, why bother with XLR inputs? Cheers

I have one - it does indeed allow you to monitor the input signal and make level adjustments during the actual recording. Linear PCM mode (16-bit, 44.1kHz) sounds lovely to my ears, which are pretty spoiled.

Fry's has just restocked the Hi-MD recorders here. One RH-10, 4 RH-910 units left, 5 blanks on the shelf. There may be some true audiophiles left after all. Lack of recording aside, even the iPod players' output simply cannot compare. I'd rather listen to a good analog cassette deck or a top quality CD player, and don't get me started on DAT. This is coming from an Apple fan. I'm typing this on a newer Powerbook, and love using iTunes. However, I do believe that the marketers in league with the trash media industry ("it's CD digital sound!") have won and too many shoppers are used to the sound of overpriced, cutesy junk merchandise masquerading as hi-fi. Many younger consumers have damaged ears and thus equate sound pressure with fidelity. Cheers

MD recorders and iPod players are like apples and oranges. Anyway, has anybody heard anything new about the Mac upload software? I use both platforms - it sure would come in handy. Cheers

I'm very fortunate to own and borrow some of the most expensive recording equipment (many $1000s, I have friends in high places) to compare Hi-MD to and I must say the 2nd gen machines can hold their own quite nicely. My flash recorders and those others I've tested with such high hopes just aren't there yet. Maybe if the mp3 crowd suddenly sprouted some "golden ears" this will happen sooner... Here in Seattle at least, RH-(9)10s are really hard to get (brick and mortar) due to Fry's and Magnolia Audio Video being constantly sold out. I guess I got lucky . The local Radio Shack kept their promise and are restocking their media shelf with pretty blue Hi-MD blanks. The sales guy knew what they were, too. Cheers

From Doug Oade's site: "Sadly this thing uses a digital level control that probably cannot be bypassed or improved. Fine for MP3 users or ENG but not so great for tapers or audiophiles. Think JB3/MD analog input sound quality." MP3?! Not an audiophile format in my opinion, sorry. Some simple math reality: At about 6dB per bit, 24 bits require 144dB S/N ratio to be fully utilized. 16 bits give theoretically about 96dB dynamic range possible. Most professional *pocket* equipment have inputs performing closer to 90dB S/N. So even they are really only using 15 bits of information over the noise floor. Dithering (adding noise) at low signal levels smooths things out, of course. Turn up your CD player/DAT/Minidisc 16 bit machine's output volume to the max during very quiet music passages and you will hear the noise added and what I'm talking about. Sorry to bore and irritate the pros here, just trying to get everyone else on the same page. I would be very surprised indeed if the analog inputs of the Microtrack recorder had S/N ratios approaching 18 bits equivalent, or 108dB. This remains the weak link in the chain. If it has the performance similar to the Edirol R1, we're looking at maybe 14 bits effective resolution due to the high noise floor. Reading owner reviews educated me greatly here. *Unless* M-Audio can pull a rabbit out of a hat (and I hope/pray they will), their product will sound as good/bad as Hi-MD. But at this price point for the recorder and media, no, they can't compete. All IMHO as always. Cheers

Ok, I think I'll bite: The heads-up on the new M-Audio pocket recorder was in my opinion a great idea and very informative. However, calling the post "Hi-MD Recording RIP" seems premature at best, and apparently for some folks could be considered trolling at worst. Also, I'm not seeing a connection between the topic you introduced and Sony's restructuring. M-Audio changed their name, got bought out by Avid and has restructured about a year ago. Companies do this occasionally. It happens. I for one am always looking for alternatives and better methods of recording sound, particularly in a pocketable format. Thanks again for the informative post. If the Microtrack 2496 went for $249.99 MSRP, had removable media costing $10-$20, and ran on ordinary batteries, then it would already be in my shopping cart. Cheers

My thoughts as well. I'm transitioning from portable DAT myself and I'm really enjoying random access etc. It's surprising to me that these little decks were ever thought to be marketed to the average US consumer, but... nah, I'll shut up now. Cheers

I've put about 15 mp3 files on my RH10. They sound just fine on it compared to my flash and hd devices. All save for one, which it "Cannot Play." Maybe it's my fault, but I haven't really investigated as to why that one file gives trouble. They all were 192kbs CBR. That was just for testing - I typically use it to record PCM. It's probably the way I encoded them. This is purely subjective of course, but I don't think the new units are any worse on MP3 than dedicated players. If you can listen to a demo unit (see post above), maybe you might use your own favorite headphones? At least you would be on familiar sonic territory. Cheers

I believe you put your finger on it...

Hear, hear! Still, it's nice to know that at least somebody is trying to compete with Sony!

Doug knows what he's talking about and I respect his opinion. He's also a dealer, and he needs to move the newer technology to stay in business. In addition, he sells a modified PMD 660 that overcomes only some of the sonic limitations. But it is still 16-bits, and compared to Hi-MD much too expensive IMHO at this time. The R1 is more of a disappointment - 24-bits wasted on a "pretty good" analog path, and not good enough for broadcast: That pretty much sums it up. It needs to be "excellent" for 24-bit audio. Personally I had high hopes for the good-looking Microtrack, but they were dashed on the details. Cheers

Back on topic: I hope that M-Audio didn't forget about the analog stages during design like Edirol did with their R1 (or, to a much lesser extent, Marantz with the PMD 660). 35-40dB S/N on the mic input is simply not broadcast quality, sorry. You have to jump through some hoops to get acceptable results (www.oade.com). That's why DAT (yes, still) and classic MD/Hi-MD formats are popular in the industry. In fact, for submissions some networks and studios only accept those formats. 24 bits sound great, but any weak links can kill the benefits. I do have an M-Audio DMP3 Dual Microphone Preamp with phantom power and it is a good performer, so I still have hope for the Microtrack. But there are too many "TBD" on the Microtrack specs (http://www.core-sound.com/microtrack_2496.html) to be taken seriously by professionals. That said, in the real world where money is often hard-earned, prices for CF cards or microdrives will have to come much further for this device to have a chance in this tough market. I almost forgot: Remember that decent input machines like the DAT PCM-M1 and Hi-MD RH-(9)10 take common, cheap AA batteries, which you can get all over the world. Somehow, the proprietary built-in Li-ion solution such as what the Microtrack uses inspires little confidence for field recording. Good luck trying to swap batteries during a session. Bring your screwdriver. Or a long power cord. Cheers

The local Radio Shack here in Seattle had a bunch of them that just came in - and they're already almost out. The sales droid was quite knowledgeable and mentioned that I could order them to deliver to my home, free shipping! Fry's has a dozen left. On a side note, they had a fresh shipment of MZ-RH(9)10s a few days ago and are now sold out, on back order. Cheers