A NH600D over an iPod?

[Christopher]

It's true, my friend decided as such last night and he has reported that he's extremely satisfied with the purchase. His last DAP was a N707, but he had it stolen a year or so ago and has been without music in portable scenarios ever since.

Anyway, one of primary decisions was because he liked the idea of discs, and how Hi-MD wasn't limited to a set amount of storage space. He also liked backwards compatibility with his old and unused discs, and really got excited when I told him about how you can reformat old discs for more capacity. Additionally, he said that the NH600D functioned well in the navigation sense, and didn't seem discontent at all. I thought that this was very interesting, and figured I'd share it with you folk. :happy:

I think I'll buy him a 40ELK and some decent cans or buds for Christmas. He sure has the right friend for his new obsession! :grin:

[aeriyn]

ATRAC/Sony/DRM/UselessStage = teh ebil. EBIL.

I <3 my pink iPod Mini. :happy:

[Christopher]

I just don't get it though, I think I would've gotten the iPod..he said he did see the NH900 and it was "glorious". I..think I'm going to get one.

[aeriyn]

As hackneyed and as "cheapo" as it sounds, the ability to use standard LR6 alkaline AAs can be a HUGE advantage. :laugh:

[Guest NRen2k5]

I'd go further than that. At $20 for a gumstick and $15 for a pair or Ni-MH AA's, you could day that the gumstick's only advantage is that it allows for the player to be made smaller.

[aeriyn]

I'd go further than that. At $20 for a gumstick and $15 for a pair or Ni-MH AA's, you could day that the gumstick's only advantage is that it allows for the player to be made smaller.

Agreed.

[Syrius]

Not sure if you may want to know. Due to the proprietary format, slow transfers, overall bugginess, and unreliability of SonicStale, the NH600 has been declared one of Cnet's Worst Buy turkeys of this year.

[Christopher]

The NH900 is 100% positive, 0% negative from four people [here].

..and the NH1 is 91% positive, 9% negative from eleven people [here].

Last but not least, the NHF800 is 100% positive, 0% negative via three people [here].

God bless the misinformed shopper who judges the Hi-MD format just on reviews of the NH600. Sadly, I know that's probably a ton of people.

[aeriyn]

Anyone who uses an iPod alongside a Sony DAP will most definitely choose the 'pod over MD of any type, or rather, anything Sony at all. Sony doesn't seem to know how to make intuitive, easy-to-use products.

[Kaotic]

Anyone who uses an iPod alongside a Sony DAP will most definitely choose the 'pod over MD of any type, or rather, anything Sony at all. Sony doesn't seem to know how to make intuitive, easy-to-use products.

MD is mean to replace cassette player/recorder. however, your last statement is just wrong. stop bashing Sony!!! arrrrgggghhh.

to prove you wrong.

take a look at those digital point-n-shoot cameras. sony and many other manufactures do know how to make easy-to-use products.

however, look at digital camcorder for example, if you are claiming sony can't. I would say just about every manufactures out there (Sony, Pana, JVC, Sharp, Samsung ....etc..etc) all of them don't seem to know how to make easy to use. too many friggin buttons on there!!

easy-to-use and know how is totally product dependant(sp?).

just because sony can't make more user friendly on their MD products. don't make your conclusion about products made by Sony. if you don't like particular product, don't just single out 1 such manufacturer, you must include all the manufactuers that make such product.

/end rant

[aeriyn]

I was speaking of Sony DAPs, not Sony products in general.

But I can say that in general, Sony products are more expensive and focused more on tiny size than on quality. Sony loves to make things small, but small is not always better. There are alternatives that perform just as well if not better, for less money.

With Sony, you pay a certain amount for the brand name, and today, in 2004, the Sony brand is not as powerful and wonderful as it once was.

Btw, I like old Sony PCDPs. =P D-555... *drool*

[stymie miasma]

For my first post, I'll throw my 2 cents in:

I had a 40G iPod+HP for about 2 weeks. The first one I purchased was D.O.A. The second one functioned, but displayed the dreaded "audio defect", moreso on large, higher bitrate tracks. I could sorta live with the audio defect, although hearing a burst of light static in the middle of a track did become tiresome.

What I could not live with was the jaw-dropping lack of bass, and the inability to play gapless. These are faults I had read about, but did not appreciate until I spent some time with the iPod. By no means am I a basshead, but I am a bass player, and I love to be able to follow a good bassline. This was near impossible on the iPod, using Koss KSC35s, Grado SR60s, Sony MDR-7506s or EX51s. I was toying with buying some Senn HD25s, but in the end thought better of it. You just can't polish a turd :rasp:

So guess what? I am now grooving with a NH900 :laugh: My bass has been returned, as has gapless playback. No audio defects, and Sonic Stage 2.2 has been behaving, although it is kinda clunky and slightly slower than iTunes.

All my music is ripped from CDs, so I have no beef with the lack of mp3 support, and to my ears, atrac3 (132 kb/LP2) is sufficient for the majority of my portable pursuits. Prior to the iPod, I had been using an old Sharp MDMT99 (also LP2) which was fun, but carting all those MDs around got a bit tiresome.

The other huge advantage to the NH900 is the external AA battery case. Why is this feature not a option on all Sony MD/HD units??? That was the sole reason I went for the NH900 over the NH1.

Ok, glad I got that off my chest. Keep up the good work folks, this is a cool forum!

[campekenobi]

The other huge advantage to the NH900 is the external AA battery case. Why is this feature not a option on all Sony MD/HD units??? That was the sole reason I went for the NH900 over the NH1.

I was under the impression that the NH900 allows you to have a AA battery INSIDE the unit as well... Am I wrong? Is the only way to use a AA some EXTERNAL device w/ that model?????

[stymie miasma]

I was under the impression that the NH900 allows you to have a AA battery INSIDE the unit as well... Am I wrong?  Is the only way to use a AA some EXTERNAL device w/ that model?????

The NH900 runs off an internal gumstick. If you wanted to use a AA as well, you need to attach the exteral AA case to the base of the unit. I think models lower than the NH900 use an internal AA, but don't have the option for the add-on external case.

[campekenobi]

The NH900 runs off an internal gumstick

That's disappointing... someone made it sound like it was an option (as if AA was internal)

I keep hearing how rechargables are lame and don't last long... and carrying around an external addition is NOT an option I would like (since the small SIZE of MDs are also what's so appealing).

How long does this 'stick' charge last? And is it like most rechargarbles? (they last well for about a year, then get worse and worse as time goes by)

[aeriyn]

Gumsticks don't last as long as the high-capacity NiMH AA cells, but they come pretty close.

They are Nickel Metal Hydride cells, which means they do have maintenance requirements (you have to cycle them once ever three or so months, and they don't like lots of partial recharges like Li-Ions do) but they are very inexpensive. You can find them on eBay for 5 or 6USD apiece.

To answer the other post...

Ironically enough, your experience with your iPod was the exact opposite for me. It's been a while since I used UselessStage; back to the days of my first NetMD unit (N505). I hated it then, I hate it now. From there I went to the old-fashioned real-time recording method using a JE330 deck and playback with a Sharp MD-DS8 portable (best sound quality =P). However, this is a pain in the rear to do.

When you add it all up... the cost of the MD recorder, the cost of the discs (everytime you want more space, gotta pony up more cash), the thought of carrying around lots of discs (ugh), the inability to operate every control on the unit with one hand (I dropped many an MD unit, but I've never dropped my iPod nor any of my flash MP3 players), the annoyances of UselessStage (or SonicSh*t, or SonicSludge, etc ad infinitum ad nauseum) and the transcoding/re-ripping of dozens of CDs...

My iPod Mini was such a breath of fresh air. From a codec standpoint, AAC totally blows away ATRAC/3/+ encoded in UselessStage (I'm not going to knock Type-R ATRAC encoded on a good MD deck, because it's very good). Ease of use, build quality, appearance, ergonomics, SOUND QUALITY (iPod has no "bass" because it has a relatively flat response; if you want bass with zee pod, then get some basshead headphones, like DT770s or Westones =P) and general all around cuteness... oh yes, the iPod Mini was already gleefully defiling the fallen corpse of MiniDisc.

While I admit Hi-MD was probably slightly easier to deal with than old MD, it's still light-years in the past when it comes to intuitive controls. There's no playlisting on Hi-MD at all. Group Function? Give me a break. That's so lame. What if I have 2 albums that share the same song? I have to put two copies of said song onto the MD.

I sold all my legacy MD equipment to buy my iPod. I got very little money from it; thankfully I got very good deals on most of my MD equipment and I bought my MD deck broken for next to nothing and fixed it myself. This was luck; I could have very well had very expensive MD equipment and got nowhere near what I paid for it when I sold it.

However, I'm pleased you're happy with your NH900 and I hope you enjoy lots of music to come. Just ditch the remote, order some Shure E3cs/E5cs or Westone UM-2 and you'll be fine. =P

Edit: Stymie, don'tcha hang out at head-fi? =P

[stymie miasma]

My iPod Mini was such a breath of fresh air. From a codec standpoint, AAC totally blows away ATRAC/3/+ encoded in UselessStage (I'm not going to knock Type-R ATRAC encoded on a good MD deck, because it's very good). Ease of use, build quality, appearance, ergonomics, SOUND QUALITY (iPod has no "bass" because it has a relatively flat response; if you want bass with zee pod, then get some basshead headphones, like DT770s or Westones =P) and general all around cuteness... oh yes, the iPod Mini was already gleefully defiling the fallen corpse of MiniDisc.

Yeah, the iPod certainly puts out a flat frequency response, but to be honest, I found it fatiguing after a while, even with warm headphones like the KSC35s. Unlike the NH900, I would be tearing my phones off after a while in a state of vague despair. Wasn't my idea of 'entertainment' or 'enjoyment'

It is quite possible that I had a 'dud' iPod, as the lack of bass was really quite shocking. I was hoping the MDR-7506 might be able to plumb the depths, but no luck there either. It was extremely frustrating, to know a song had a cool bassline, but having to imagine it because you certainly couldn't hear it! :rasp:

You are right that MD can be a pain to navigate, so the iPod GUI certainly spanks it in that regard. That said, I am an album kind of guy. All my music is loaded on as entire albums, and I tend to listen to an entire album at a time. In that regard, there are very few times when I need to navigate, and when I do, it is only through a dozen or so 'albums'. Easy!

Edit: Stymie, don'tcha hang out at head-fi? =P

Yep, that would be me! I have seen a few familar faces around here, including your own. You may have noticed lini (or was it Tomcat?) from Head-Fi referring to the Beyer DT531s as "the groovaliser". That is the extact same feeling I get when comparing MD (Sharp MDMT99 and Sony MD-NH900) to the iPod. The iPod may be the audiophile's wet dream, but it certainly doesn't get my foot tapping! :rasp:

[campekenobi]

I find it ironic that when I first held the iPod mini (just like a week ago), I thought it was the coolest thing... especially coz it was all METAL, sleek, nice SIMPLE navigation... but the price was waaaay out of my range, and I was debating the $60 entry-level MD player... then after entertaining the thought of MD more and more... recognizing the benefits of hi-MD, etc.... next thing I know I spent almost the same amount as I would for an iPod mini for the NH900!

Most people here seem to talk more about the sound & music than the EXPERIENCE of playing.... I'm actually kinda' opposite. Yes, I love fidelity, but I'm a techno wax-spinner. I love to KNOW that a 12" record is spinning on my Technics turntable. I love watching it spin, the mechanics, etc. Playing an mp3 is the most dull of all audio experiences I've ever dealt with. Even my CD players usually have a glass window so I can SEE the disc SPIN. MD players, though I think I've only seen one early model w/ a small window, have the coolest-looking CD 'cartridges', and I just think they're awesome. Ipod? MP3 sticks? They're dull to me, and very trendy as well.

That's my take. Yes, I'm weird.

[bland10000]

About a year is a good estimate. The first rule of thumb for g.s.b. with a recorder/player is to avoid variation of the discharge of the battery. Do your computer to unit (and vice-verse for you lucky bucks with hi-md) transfers utilizing the charge stand. Think of it like a new set of tires; if you peel out every time you pass an ex-girlfriends house you are wearing down the tire quicker than when you drive responsibly.

and carrying around an external addition is NOT an option I would like

Worse yet, the external power casing has a little screw that can get caught up in your pocket lining. I recommend buying a 2nd or even 3rd g.s.b. It fits easily in your pocket with no unsightly bulges and when your primary g.s.b. goes empty, you would probably be willing to shell out 3.00 dollars for the electron fairy to recharge you then and there. After 5 or 6 times wishing there were an electron fairy, you will have reached the price of a new g.s.b..

[Christopher]

Welcome to the forums, stymie miasma.

[stymie miasma]

Welcome to the forums, stymie miasma.

Thanks kurisu, always good to see another Head-Fi'er in the forums!

[campekenobi]

Ya know, I'm feelin' kinda hurt here... I've made several posts, just joined last week, yet I never got a warm "welcome to the forum"

[Christopher]

..always good to see another Head-Fi'er in the forums!

I actually quit there, but it was nice whilst it lasted. Good community over there.

Ya know, I'm feelin' kinda hurt here... I've made several posts, just joined last week, yet I never got a warm "welcome to the forum" 

Hey mate, welcome to the forums. I thought someone gave you one, but I'm glad you joined, and I'm glad you're posting alot.

If you both ever need anything, just PM me. :happy:

[stymie miasma]

Most people here seem to talk more about the sound & music than the EXPERIENCE of playing.... I'm actually kinda' opposite.  Yes, I love fidelity, but I'm a techno wax-spinner.  I love to KNOW that a 12" record is spinning on my Technics turntable.  I love watching it spin, the mechanics, etc.  Playing an mp3 is the most dull of all audio experiences I've ever dealt with.  Even my CD players usually have a glass window so I can SEE the disc SPIN.  MD players, though I think I've only seen one early model w/ a small window, have the coolest-looking CD 'cartridges', and I just think they're awesome.  Ipod?  MP3 sticks?  They're dull to me, and very trendy as well.

I hear ya - I too love the 'gadgetness' of MDs. Aside from sonic and functional problems with the iPod, the iPod is kinda like a sterile brick. Sure, the GUI is fancypants, but after you get past that, the entire package is somewhat underwhelming IMHO :rasp:

[campekenobi]

gadgetness

Cool term - I like :grin:

[Guest NRen2k5]

I must say that I like recorders that use AA batteries internally. I have 6 NiMH AA's (I'm not counting the piece of scrap that came with the NH700) and 4 rechargeable alkaline AA's... Yes, I always have something charged and ready.

[Guest NRen2k5]

Gumsticks don't last as long as the high-capacity NiMH AA cells, but they come pretty close.

They are Nickel Metal Hydride cells, which means they do have maintenance requirements (you have to cycle them once ever three or so months, and they don't like lots of partial recharges like Li-Ions do) but they are very inexpensive. You can find them on eBay for 5 or 6USD apiece.

To answer the other post...

Ironically enough, your experience with your iPod was the exact opposite for me. It's been a while since I used UselessStage; back to the days of my first NetMD unit (N505). I hated it then, I hate it now. From there I went to the old-fashioned real-time recording method using a JE330 deck and playback with a Sharp MD-DS8 portable (best sound quality =P). However, this is a pain in the rear to do.

When you add it all up... the cost of the MD recorder, the cost of the discs (everytime you want more space, gotta pony up more cash), the thought of carrying around lots of discs (ugh), the inability to operate every control on the unit with one hand (I dropped many an MD unit, but I've never dropped my iPod nor any of my flash MP3 players), the annoyances of UselessStage (or SonicSh*t, or SonicSludge, etc ad infinitum ad nauseum) and the transcoding/re-ripping of dozens of CDs...

My iPod Mini was such a breath of fresh air. From a codec standpoint, AAC totally blows away ATRAC/3/+ encoded in UselessStage (I'm not going to knock Type-R ATRAC encoded on a good MD deck, because it's very good). Ease of use, build quality, appearance, ergonomics, SOUND QUALITY (iPod has no "bass" because it has a relatively flat response; if you want bass with zee pod, then get some basshead headphones, like DT770s or Westones =P) and general all around cuteness... oh yes, the iPod Mini was already gleefully defiling the fallen corpse of MiniDisc.

While I admit Hi-MD was probably slightly easier to deal with than old MD, it's still light-years in the past when it comes to intuitive controls. There's no playlisting on Hi-MD at all. Group Function? Give me a break. That's so lame. What if I have 2 albums that share the same song? I have to put two copies of said song onto the MD.

I sold all my legacy MD equipment to buy my iPod. I got very little money from it; thankfully I got very good deals on most of my MD equipment and I bought my MD deck broken for next to nothing and fixed it myself. This was luck; I could have very well had very expensive MD equipment and got nowhere near what I paid for it when I sold it.

However, I'm pleased you're happy with your NH900 and I hope you enjoy lots of music to come. Just ditch the remote, order some Shure E3cs/E5cs or Westone UM-2 and you'll be fine. =P

Edit: Stymie, don'tcha hang out at head-fi? =P

How do you manage with so little storage space, though? 5GB will store about 60 CD's at good quality and that's really not many. The way I see it, the iPod Mini is a silly little toy with a big price tag. No matter what someone's needs are, he/she should be better off with an iRiver iHP, an MP3-CD player, a minidisc player, or a CF/SD MP3 player.

[Damage]

Ironically enough, your experience with your iPod was the exact opposite for me. It's been a while since I used UselessStage; back to the days of my first NetMD unit (N505). I hated it then, I hate it now...

It's typical Sony, nice Hardware ated with bad software. However, I will say that I found iTunes more than underwhelming. As spartan and featureless as SonicStage is, it gets the job done and hasn't misbehaved in a while. If you so wish, you can do completely without SonicStage by using SimpleBurner, or completely without a computer. Just a thought.

When you add it all up... the cost of the MD recorder, the cost of the discs (everytime you want more space, gotta pony up more cash), the thought of carrying around lots of discs (ugh), the inability to operate every control on the unit with one hand (I dropped many an MD unit, but I've never dropped my iPod nor any of my flash MP3 players), the annoyances of UselessStage (or SonicSh*t, or SonicSludge, etc ad infinitum ad nauseum) and the transcoding/re-ripping of dozens of CDs...

The scrollwheel is both a plus and a minus IMO. In my limited time with iPod (about 3 weeks 40gb), I was taking more time navigating through my albums than listening. Yea, there are playlists, but generating them through iPod or planning in advance of what I want to listen isn't really my cup of tea. This was true of both the iPod and the Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra.

I did miss using remote for my navigation, something that I think is a must for any portable electronics these days. Less risk of a drop, for instance (other than the small flash MP3s).

My iPod Mini was such a breath of fresh air. From a codec standpoint, AAC totally blows away ATRAC/3/+ encoded in UselessStage (I'm not going to knock Type-R ATRAC encoded on a good MD deck, because it's very good)

Any competent codec will produce nigh CD-transparent quality tracks given 256kbps. Failing to provide something between HiSP (256) and HiLP (64) with Atrac3plus (and sticking with Atrac3) is very questionable decision on part of Sony. There is nothing that can stop Atrac3plus from using 128kbps or 160kbps range should Sony allow it so.

Ease of use, build quality, appearance, ergonomics, SOUND QUALITY (iPod has no "bass" because it has a relatively flat response...) and general all around cuteness... oh yes, the iPod Mini was already gleefully defiling the fallen corpse of MiniDisc.

I can also argue that my NH900 gives much nicer listening experience with its HD amp and sounds much more neutral than previous MD units (a quick listen with the MDR-V6s reveals this easily). As for Ease of use, perceived build quality, looks etc. that's mostly subjective and tastes can change. For instances, I must have a Dock with my portable gear, no arguments can be made there. By that argument, I can say that iPods of lesser capacity are rubbish, but they obviously are not.

While I admit Hi-MD was probably slightly easier to deal with than old MD, it's still light-years in the past when it comes to intuitive controls...

I'd agree that iPods are dead easy to use. It still comes down to pressing the play button for the most part however.

MDs controls, for the most part, are based around old MDs, when it held at most 80 minutes of music vs. several tens of hours worth. The iPod's controls were designed from the get go to make navigating through several GBs of music easily. Apples and Sonys, pardon the pun.

Thus far, I've used many a portable electronics, from a Panasonic Shockwave PCDP back in mid 90s to iRivers fine line of PCDP (250, 350), Clie's audioplayer, even more PCDPs, several DAPS (including iPods), MDs and HiMDs. While I used to think remotes were very useless, after having used several units that required using remotes, I've done a total 180 on the remotes. Not having one is very... limiting, to say the least. It is nice to keep your player in your pocket (jacket, pants, wherever) and use the remote without having to dig the player out everytime I want to do something even remotely simple as changing volume.

Maybe I'm still used to using discs. I still get a little joy when I get a new CD album and all the notes, books, photos that accompanies it. So, CDs and MDs will always have a place with me. Just wanted to bring my Pov on it.

(I hate to nitpick a mod, but one thing I will say is name calling a piece of software other than what it is, along the lines of Microsoft with a "$" is immature, and belongs only on forums like slash-dot or fark.)

How do you manage with so little storage space, though? 5GB will store about 60 CD's at good quality and that's really not many. The way I see it, the iPod Mini is a silly little toy with a big price tag. No matter what someone's needs are, he/she should be better off with an iRiver iHP, an MP3-CD player, a minidisc player, or a CF/SD MP3 player

iTunes actually has a nice playlisting ability, where you can let iTunes pick certain tunes (or so I am told) based on Genre or how much it was listened to, etc (similar to DJ features on Rio Karma). So you can always cycle in and out as needed. But then again, if your computer is in the doghouse (or otherwise incapaciated), you're locked out of your music.

The bigger players do not suffer this problem unless you're exclusively dealing with lossless formats or have a ginormous library. Mine is quite large, but not 40GBs large (I think I filled out 33 or so). Of course, will you listen to all 40-50GBs of it? I haven't, and I actually ended up listening to small selection of my library. It does kinda make the whole entire library in your pocket almost useless if you don't make good use of it.

Finally, I'll end with this note:

ATRAC/Sony/DRM/UselessStage = teh ebil. EBIL.

Head-Fi Dogma #7: ATRAC sucks. Therefore, by extension, anything related to ATRAC must suck.

[Kaotic]

Maybe I'm still used to using discs.  I still get a little joy when I get a new CD album and all the notes, books, photos that accompanies it.  So, CDs and MDs will always have a place with me.  Just wanted to bring my Pov on it.

Same here, both CDs and MDs have their place with me.

I hate to argue with a mod, but one thing I will say is that name calling a piece of software other than what it is, along the lines of Microsoft with a "$" sounds really immature.

amen to that, hahaha. I feel the same way. apparently someone here on the board is somewhat bias!!

The bigger players do not suffer this problem unless you're exclusively dealing with lossless formats or have a ginormous library.  Mine is quite large, but not 40GBs large (I think I filled out 33 or so).  Of course, will you listen to all 40-50GBs of it?  I haven't,  and I actually ended up listening to small selection of my library.  It does kinda make the whole entire library in your pocket almost useless if you don't make good use of it.

very well said!! eventually, my library will outgrow whatever capacity of those DAPs, but not so on MD, when my library expands, my MD collection expands along with it. my 2G 10gb (apple ver) Ipod as of now is somewhat collecting dust in the drawer.

[jadeclaw]

eventually, my library will outgrow whatever capacity of those DAPs, but not so on MD, when my library expands, my MD collection expands along with it. my 2G 10gb (apple ver) Ipod as of now is somewhat collecting dust in the drawer.

And exactly that is the point, why I stayed with Minidisc.

My collection would reach well over 60GByte at 256k, adding my Vinyls, I would reach the 100 GB-mark...

That's three fat iPods. I get a lot of discs for that amount of money...

And Minidisc would be much more reliable as well.

Instead of shuffling files around, I just grab the player and the discs I want and take off...

[Damage]

100GB (Assumes that you have some sort of HiMD player) in HiMDs costs roughly $700.

That same $700 will net you 1x 60GB iPod and less than $50 in spare change after S&H or Sales Tax. ($599 MSRP)

1x 40GB iPod Color ($499 MSPR) plus $150 in spare change or there about.

1x 40GB iPod and $250 in spare change, maybe a nice 1GB flash MP3 player or a nice set of cans (If you do have $250 in spare change, buy me a MDR-V9s?)

or 2x 20GB iPod, or 1x 20GB and 1x U2 20GB Pod, and mind you, this is total of 40GBs.

or NH1 ($399 MSRP) and almost 40 blanks (40GB). But then again, we're assuming you already have a HiMD player.

or NH1 and 130 normal MD blanks (39GBs, or thereabout, using 1GB=1,000MB, so each blank has 0.3B or thereabout, assuming $2 per blank, prices may vary.).

[Michael1980]

The reason I chose NH600 over an iPod is because:

-I have digital tv with channels and channels of music (no interruption/stupid announcements) which have all the info displayed on the screen (song name etc). Hence I connect my NH600 to the reciever and record away.

-iPod is too boring. It can play mp3's (very well admittedly) and nothing else. With MD I can "play" a bit more.

-Sony is better quality and design (although I would not showcase the NH600 as the best of those lol).

-Price: NH600 is twice as cheap as the 20gb iPod (with massive student discount). The iPod Mini does not appeal to me since it is 8h battery life and not 12h.

-MD is a bit different, nobody has them, while everybody has an iPod.

-Cool disks designs

-MD just looks tougher, if I can an iPod I would never take to the beach for example, while the NH600 is perfect for that.

I realise that an iPod is better for "just" playing mp3's but HiMD is more exciting for us technophiles.

[skyther]

-iPod is too boring. It can play mp3's (very well admittedly) and nothing else. With MD I can "play" a bit more.

?

iPod - MP3, AAC, WAV, Apple Lossless, AIFF, Audible

Hi-MD - ATRAC/3/+, WAV

-Sony is better quality and design (although I would not showcase the NH600 as the best of those lol).

?

iPods are more metal than plastic and I suppose that makes it of poorer quality :wink:

-Price: NH600 is twice as cheap as the 20gb iPod (with massive student discount). The iPod Mini does not appeal to me since it is 8h battery life and not 12h.

And so is a Civic several times cheaper than a Lexus, but would be more or less comparable to a Corolla... and gee the Civic appeals to me because it looks sportier than the Corolla, but since the Lexus looks kinda sporty too I think I'll compare the Civic to the Lexus instead :sleep:

-MD is a bit different, nobody has them, while everybody has an iPod.

Really? I was under the impression that NH600Ds were for people who wanted an iPod but couldn't afford one and hence had to settle for a cheaper alternative :whatever: Most of my buds who now use iPods have had higher-end MD units in the past

-MD just looks tougher, if I can an iPod I would never take to the beach for example, while the NH600 is perfect for that.

Yea a hummer looks hella though too, so why don't we all drive one? :grin:

Someone ought to warn you that sand and optics don't match very well, while on the other hand an iPod is completely sealed. Saying MDs are perfect for beach-like environments is like saying a BMW 7 is the ultimate off-road, cross-country and deep-jungle trekking warrior. :wink:

PS. Don't mind me, I'm not trying to be biased... you just aren't thinking hard enough. :wink:

[Damage]

iPod - MP3, AAC, WAV, Apple Lossless,  AIFF, Audible

Hi-MD - ATRAC/3/+, WAV

AL, Audible is a subset of AAC/MP4 codec. So, iPod does MP3, AAC, PCM (WAV and AIFF being container of PCMS, they aren't necessairly codecs).

Since you've put Audible and AL as a separate codec, shouldn't you do the same with Atrac, Atrac3, and Atrac3plus, listing each as a separate codec?

?

iPods are more metal than plastic and I suppose that makes it of poorer quality :wink:

Opinions. Everyone has one, you know?

Really? I was under the impression that NH600Ds were for people who wanted an iPod but couldn't afford one and hence had to settle for a cheaper alternative :whatever: Most of my buds who now use iPods have had higher-end MD units in the past

Ahh!! It's the attack of the strawman! Ahh, run for teh hillz! We all must be poor since we can't shell out $300 for a nice MD unit these days!

A clean (not sealed necessairly) environment is necessary for HD-DAPS (almost a must) since HDs in comparison to other mediums, are much more fragile. Hard Drive heads and the drive itself does not make contact, but needs a cushion of air for it to work properly. Any foreign material that enters the HD will render it useless.

While optical devices and sand may not mix, it is less likely to ruin the entire system (unless you're the unlucky type and a rogue sand bits and pieces scratches the lens to death). Conversely while your drive maybe toast in such case, your data isn't, for the most part. Unless you have some sort of sandpaper fetish with shiny, unscratched media.

Sealed System has its own faults, including the inability to replace media as needed. Drop your iPod (not saying you should), HD goes kaput, you're pretty much up the river as you can not replace your HD with ones off the shelf. As clumsy as Creative DAPs are, you could have always replaced the HD should something disasterous happen to them (not so with newer players).

Let's not get started with the sealed batteries. Yes, you can replace them with third party goods, but isn't nice to have to have the option to do so from the get go (Zen XTRA, Zen Touch Micro)? Or how about something that you can use off the shelf, like Gumsticks and AAs?

As for reliability (off of a bit of a tangent given the sand in the player conundrum):

Flash players, depending on the technologies involved has anywhere from 100,000 to 1,000,000 write cycles (not read). MDs have been quoted as having similar write cycle capabilities (not sure from where, though I distinctly remember one of the Sony Videos saying such figures, so at absolute worst, you'd have 100,000 write cycle-an order differential), while HDs has 50,000 start-up contact cycles before the failure rate increases in geometric ratio (ie skyrockets). In other words, they are fairly similar in terms of reliability if they aren't exerted to external forces, but you're more likely to harm a HD than a flash based player.

Don't mind me. I'm trying to look at both sides of the picture here.

PS. Don't mind me, I'm not trying to be biased... you just aren't thinking hard enough.

Touche, or is the Dogma #7 at play?

[skyther]

AL, Audible is a subset of AAC/MP4 codec. So, iPod does MP3, AAC, PCM (WAV and AIFF being container of PCMS, they aren't necessairly codecs). Since you've put Audible and AL as a separate codec, shouldn't you do the same with Atrac, Atrac3, and Atrac3plus, listing each as a separate codec?

Jeez Damage. AL and Audible were designed for different purposes. Sure, they are AAC/MP4 spin-offs, but they cover bases which AAC doesn't. What's the difference in terms of aimed usage between ATRAC/3/+? Nothing, it's all for music. Maybe LP4/Hi-LP was designed with voice recording in mind, but that's just the same as saying 48kbps AAC or MP3 was for voice.

Point being that he said an iPod supports only MP3 while his Hi-MD plays a little bit more, which is a statement made that's really far from the truth. Support for 3 publicly supported codec types means a lot more than support for 3 variants of a single proprietory codec. ATRAC means nothing to people other than MD and Connect users, which generally are any part of one and the same user base since no one gives a stuff about Connect if they don't have an ATRAC capable device.

And so does an iPod play just MP3s?

Opinions.  Everyone has one, you know?

Yeah. I don't think that ugly cover gap on my N10 was one of Sony's eccentric design features. Truth be it known, my mini is a hell lot more rugged than any MD portable I've owned in the past, and that's a lot. Clearly Mr. Michael has probably never even used a pod before, which explains the hint of naiveness in his post.

Ahh!!  It's the attack of the strawman!  Ahh, run for teh hillz!   We all must be poor since we can't shell out $300 for a nice MD unit these days!

A clean (not sealed necessairly) environment is necessary for HD-DAPS (almost a must) since HDs in comparison to other mediums, are much more fragile.  Hard Drive heads and the drive itself does not make contact, but needs a cushion of air for it to work properly.  Any foreign material that enters the HD will render it useless. 

While optical devices and sand may not mix, it is less likely to ruin the entire system (unless you're the unlucky type and a rogue sand bits and pieces scratches the lens to death).  Conversely while your drive maybe toast in such case, your data isn't, for the most part.  Unless you have some sort of sandpaper fetish with shiny, unscratched media.

Sealed System has its own faults, including the inability to replace media as needed.  Drop your iPod (not saying you should), HD goes kaput, you're pretty much up the river as you can not replace your HD with ones off the shelf.  As clumsy as Creative DAPs are, you could have always replaced the HD should something disasterous happen to them (not so with newer players).

Let's not get started with the sealed batteries.  Yes, you can replace them with third party goods, but isn't nice to have to have the option to do so from the get go (Zen XTRA, Zen Touch Micro)?  Or how about something that you can use off the shelf, like Gumsticks and AAs?

As for reliability (off of a bit of a tangent given the sand in the player conundrum):

Flash players, depending on the technologies involved has anywhere from 100,000 to 1,000,000 write cycles (not read).  MDs have been quoted as having similar write cycle capabilities (not sure from where, though I distinctly remember one of the Sony Videos saying such figures, so at  absolute worst, you'd have 100,000 write cycle-an order differential), while HDs has 50,000 start-up contact cycles before the failure rate increases in geometric ratio (ie skyrockets).  In other words, they are fairly similar in terms of reliability if they aren't exerted to external forces, but you're more likely to harm a HD than a flash based player.

Don't mind me.  I'm trying to look at both sides of the picture here.

Touche, or is the Dogma #7 at play?

Damage, no single product is perfect. We were talking about a hypothetical BEACH situation, and even under normal use sand would get into the internals of a MD portable easy. No one said anything about data integrity so let's not drag every colossal problem the world has ever encountered into this.

Sand = foreign particle. Foreign particle + mechanics = bad mix.

A HDP isn't sealed as in AIR TIGHT sealed, but it is sealed from foreign matter. Absolutely pointless for you to describe to me how a hard drive functions because it doesn't really matter at all. And no one said you were taking an iPod to the beach to play footie either, and from experience the iPod has just as much shock tolerance as your typical MD unit. =]

This is the 21st century. No one designs portable consumer electronics to last a lifetime. I'd rather use what I have without worry of how many contact cycles it's made till MTBF. :laugh:

Like I said, I'm not being biased. And I'm not exactly a Head-Fi regular either.

[Damage]

Yeah. I don't think that ugly cover gap on my N10 was one of Sony's eccentric design features. Truth be it known, my mini is a hell lot more rugged than any MD portable I've owned in the past, and that's a lot. Clearly Mr. Michael has probably never even used a pod before, which explains the hint of naiveness in his post.

Where as I have, and there are plenty of ways to break an iPod without too much thinking. As you said, no single product is perfect. However, the nature of the beast with HD drives is that it has potential to cause more trouble, I know that I've KO'd several HDs with drops that would have minimal impact on portable players. There is really one moving unit on both the Pod and the MD, if you want to boil it down.

My argument with this is that you have more to lose with an iPod if you're the clumsy type, your entire library vs. just your player and the unfortunate disc. I've outlined the impossible (sand getting into the Pod or getting dropped repeatedly) but stranger things have known to happen, like an iPod getting driven over... I don't think anything really survives that. Not the MD units, not Pod, maybe, just maybe a very rugged flash player... If at that.

Damage, no single product is perfect. We were talking about a hypothetical BEACH situation, and even under normal use sand would get into the internals of a MD portable easy. No one said anything about data integrity so let's not drag every colossal problem the world has ever encountered into this.

Sand = foreign particle. Foreign particle + mechanics = bad mix.

It's always bad if sand gets in your PCDP, MD, Muvo, Pod, etc. No argument there. However, the bringing player to the beach does raise data integrity implicitly. After all, bringing the pod is definitely a good idea to the beach when a sizable portion of library may or may not be corrupted by the environment.

...and from experience the iPod has just as much shock tolerance as your typical MD unit...

OK...

This is the 21st century. No one designs portable consumer electronics to last a lifetime. I'd rather use what I have without worry of how many contact cycles it's made till MTBF. :laugh:

With a sealed system, there is real no way to expand the system one way or another, or replace the batteries in a pinch, etc. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Versatility is what I look for, but not necessairly with third party accessories, some of which has no "useful" use (the Laser Pointer comes to mind).

[skyther]

Where as I have, and there are plenty of ways to break an iPod without too much thinking.  As you said, no single product is perfect.  However, the nature of the beast with HD drives is that it has potential to cause more trouble, I know that I've KO'd several HDs with drops that would have minimal impact on portable players.  There is really one moving unit on both the Pod and the MD, if you want to boil it down. 

My argument with this is that you have more to lose with an iPod if you're the clumsy type, your entire library vs. just your player and the unfortunate disc.  I've outlined the impossible (sand getting into the Pod or getting dropped repeatedly) but stranger things have known to happen, like an iPod getting driven over...  I don't think anything really survives that.  Not the MD units, not Pod, maybe, just maybe a very rugged flash player...  If at that.

It's always bad if sand gets in your PCDP, MD, Muvo, Pod, etc.  No argument there.  However, the bringing player to the beach does raise data integrity implicitly.  After all, bringing the pod is definitely a good idea to the beach when a sizable portion of library may or may not be corrupted by the environment.   

OK...  

With a sealed system, there is real no way to expand the system one way or another, or replace the batteries in a pinch, etc.  You live by the sword, you die by the sword.  Versatility is what I look for, but not necessairly with third party accessories, some of which has no "useful" use (the Laser Pointer comes to mind).

←

First off, a Pod is designed play off a mirror dupe of your PC's library, not as a primary. iTunes does this automatically while synchronizing. How it stands being exposed to shocks is debatable. Both are equally fragile in their own rights, and you can jarr an optical block as easy as you can force a hard drive crash. Both may or may not survive the unfortunate "one time fall", and generally aren't designed to go through extreme conditions such as being driven over by a car. Just in case you didn't know, they actually do drop tests on these things.

You do have a laptop, don't you? Why would you worry more about dropping an iPod than a laptop? In the case of an iPod, the hard drive is remains parked 95% of the time.

Heck, why are we discussing this? My original statement was that MDs and beaches don't mix.

Lastly, things nowadays aren't made as durable as they once were. It's a 'use and throw' situation where things are easily replaced, so enjoy them while you can.

[Damage]

First off, a Pod is designed play off a mirror dupe of your PC's library, not as a primary. iTunes does this automatically while synchronizing. How it stands being exposed to shocks is debatable. Both are equally fragile in their own rights, and you can jarr an optical block as easy as you can force a hard drive crash. Both may or may not survive the unfortunate "one time fall", and generally aren't designed to go through extreme conditions such as being driven over by a car. Just in case you didn't know, they actually do drop tests on these things.

You do have a laptop, don't you? Why would you worry more about dropping an iPod than a laptop? In the case of an iPod, the hard drive is remains parked 95% of the time.

Heck, why are we discussing this? My original statement was that MDs and beaches don't mix.

Lastly, things nowadays aren't made as durable as they once were. It's a 'use and throw' situation where things are easily replaced, so enjoy them while you can.

1. Not everyone uses iPod as a mirror of their library. And I'm aware that such testing is done across the range as part of a QA program. However, incredible things happen, such as a car driving over said devices or other seemingly improbable things.

Don't make blanket statements that say one thing or other is more durable than other.

2. Had two, in fact. And yes, I worried over dropping those laptop all the time. However, you're not using your laptop while your jogging, walking, or other activities that increases the likely hood of droppin said device. Again, no one's going to stop you from using your lapto while you're jogging.

3. I'd also say that iPods and Beaches (water, lots and lots of water) don't mix as well. At least, naked and bare as is, no portable electronics, especially the fancy, flagship types, don't mix with water too well.

[aeriyn]

How do you manage with so little storage space, though? 5GB will store about 60 CD's at good quality and that's really not many. The way I see it, the iPod Mini is a silly little toy with a big price tag. No matter what someone's needs are, he/she should be better off with an iRiver iHP, an MP3-CD player, a minidisc player, or a CF/SD MP3 player.

←

Um... I barely have the Mini halfway full. And btw, all of those things save for the iRiver has less space than an iPod Mini. Removable media for portable devices is so passe now. It's not even remotely convenient except in the instance of recording where it makes a lot more sense than non-removable.

Why does everyone call the Mini expensive?! Every other MicroDrive player is also 250USD MSRP! Sheesh!

And I don't like iRiver, the Zen Micro is weird looking and the Carbon isn't pink. How's that?

eventually, my library will outgrow whatever capacity of those DAPs, but not so on MD, when my library expands, my MD collection expands along with it. my 2G 10gb (apple ver) Ipod as of now is somewhat collecting dust in the drawer.

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Um, you do know that you can delete files off the iPod and put new ones on in place of them, right?

You're not gonna ever listen to more than 24 hours of music in one day anyhow.

[Damage]

You're not gonna ever listen to more than 24 hours of music in one day anyhow. 

←

Yes you can, listen to it at chipmunk speed! Then you can get in 48, or even 72 hours of music in one day!

Whether or not you can actually comprehend such things is another question altogether!

I miss the high speed dubbing options on those Tape Recorders.