A NH600D over an iPod?

[Christopher]

You guys get too much into this topic, and I would almost stretch to say the whole internet does as well. The internet lives in such a hyper lifestyle.

This topic was about a fellow who is not fluent in such things, looked at the specs and made the decision on his own. We all try so hard to display to oneanother that one device is unparalleled or is better in this regard or that regard, but at the end of the day, another Joe A. Consumer may buy a NH600 or some other Hi-MD device. If my friend did [i wish you guys knew him better], there really is hope for this format.

[Damage]

You guys get too much into this topic, and I would almost stretch to say the whole internet does as well. The internet lives in such a hyper lifestyle.

This topic was about a fellow who is not fluent in such things, looked at the specs and made the decision on his own. We all try so hard to display to oneanother that one device is unparalleled or is better in this regard or that regard, but at the end of the day, another Joe A. Consumer may buy a NH600 or some other Hi-MD device. If my friend did [i wish you guys knew him better], there really is hope for this format.

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Little spirited conversation never hurts. Besides, if we are having such discussions, then I think it's a good sign that the format still has legs, or that the Digital Music platform itself has plenty of room to grow, despite what dollars and cents tell us.

I'd be more worried if we're not having such conversations.

It's all good Kurisu.

[skyther]

It's all good

BTW, I'm having that Tazo Chai stuff now... 15" WXGA + WiFi + Starbucks = gooooooooooooooooooood.

[Michael1980]

?

iPod - MP3, AAC, WAV, Apple Lossless,  AIFF, Audible

Hi-MD - ATRAC/3/+, WAV

Yes, but iPod cannot record, act as a USB drive.

?

iPods are more metal than plastic and I suppose that makes it of poorer quality :wink:

Ipods are made by some random company in Taiwan/China. Top end Sony is made in Japan by Sony themselves.

And so is a Civic several times cheaper than a Lexus, but would be more or less comparable to a Corolla... and gee the Civic appeals to me because it looks sportier than the Corolla, but since the Lexus looks kinda sporty too I think I'll compare the Civic to the Lexus instead :sleep:

There is nothing wrong with saving money.

Really? I was under the impression that NH600Ds were for people who wanted an iPod but couldn't afford one and hence had to settle for a cheaper alternative :whatever: Most of my buds who now use iPods have had higher-end MD units in the past

Good for your "buds".

Yea a hummer looks hella though too, so why don't we all drive one? :grin:

Someone ought to warn you that sand and optics don't match very well, while on the other hand an iPod is completely sealed. Saying MDs are perfect for beach-like environments is like saying a BMW 7 is the ultimate off-road, cross-country and deep-jungle trekking warrior. :wink:

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Yeah, but I would not take an iPod to the beach, since expensive things and heat don't mix well. I did however take my cheaper md player several times.

Nothing wrong with the iPod, it is excellent but a minidisc is a bit different and at least you stand out from the crowd of white earphones

[Damage]

iPods can act as a USB drive, but you need iTunes initially to enable HD use. Furthermore, you can use third party software for music management.

Sony gear, most of them, are manufactured by Sony by themselves. My 600 and 900 both states it as such, SOEM manufactured. It is probable that Apple's iPod is manufactured with mostly off the shelf parts, but Apple, I'd wager, has a very large say in QA.

Speaking of cars, most luxury cars (certainly German ones, and some American brands) now offer scheduled maintenance free of charge, Beamers all maintenance. So in that case, which would be a better value overall? Or, rather, with all the maintenance costs added in, which seems like a better value, the high end Toyota or a lower end BMW? Most would say the latter.

Try not to make blanket statements. Not everyone wants or needs a MD, likewise, not everyone wants or needs a Pod.

By the by, I say give that BMW 7 nice ground clearance, and it'd probably handle rough terrain better than most SUVs. And H2s are nothing more than dressed up Suburbans. Admittedly, still pretty rugged, but nothing like what it was based upon.

[skyther]

Yes, but iPod cannot record, act as a USB drive.

Nup you don't need iTunes for hdd access. With iTrip, the iPod is capable of speech-quality recording. You were proven wrong re the codec bit but it looks like you're still not making any effort to correct yourself.

Ipods are made by some random company in Taiwan/China. Top end Sony is made in Japan by Sony themselves.

First off, Minidisc units of any company (Sharp, Sony) that are made in Japan are no more durable than those made overseas. Evidence has proven the fact, and those with Malaysian made Sharp/Auvis will definately agree to this point that the build quality of these will put any 'top-end' Sony portable to shame. It's the design of the product that matters much more than the origin of the product.

Second, Apple isn't a fly-by-night company that's only been around for 6 months. They don't outsource the manufacturing of their products to some random Chinese manufacturer. And unlike Sony, Apple doesn't have a reputation for selling shoddily designed products.

If I had a made-with-95%-plastic-by-some-random-company-in-Malaysia-NH600D, I wouldn't be expecting too much in terms of quality.

There is nothing wrong with saving money.

I don't think you understood what I said. Maybe you don't know what a Lexus or a Corolla is. Basically I was saying that you shouldn't compare the price of an el'cheapo NH600D to a mid-ranged 20GB. Hard drives cost more than optical blocks, y'know, so try to comprehend the situation and think of what you're getting for your money.

Yeah, but I would not take an iPod to the beach, since expensive things and heat don't mix well. I did however take my cheaper md player several times.

Nothing wrong with the iPod, it is excellent but a minidisc is a bit different and at least you stand out from the crowd of white earphones

Expensive? Hmm. Let's put it this way: if you can afford anything more than a NH600D, you can afford an iPod. An iPod is able to handle a beach environment better than a MD player can, minus the part about water which Damage brought up earlier.

And... until 2 years ago, white earphones were a rarity. The popularity of a product is only created by it's success; what more can I say? Indeed MD is different, as an inferior product as a 'walkman' where it's only advantages are made to cater for a niche group of recorders, where even then it's still not offering a full package due to stupidity on Sony's behalf. Of course the inferior product isn't as popular as the successful one.

Not like the E808s supplied with Sony MDs are any special either. 2 dollar black earbuds are in abundance, dontcha think? So much for a crowd of white earphones.

BTW, Damage - that's what the X5 is for. And it's not just a raised 7 series.

[Christopher]

Funny, I just noticed that my NH900 JE was made in Malaysia. Go figure.

[aeriyn]

Nothing wrong with the iPod, it is excellent but a minidisc is a bit different and at least you stand out from the crowd of white earphones

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I resent that remark! I would never use the stock buds... in fact, I've got no clue where they even are now.

When it comes down to it, your mileage may vary. As of right now my iPod Mini does everything I need it to do. I just wish the battery life was a tad better. But that's not of such import that it would convince me to get rid of it.

If you like your MD unit, great, it's money well spent. Same with me and my iPod. No one's telling you to get rid of it. Except maybe skyther.

[Michael1980]

I meant record music! (over 8kbps) I can record speech with my pda ffs.

And I have never even talked about codecs.

I (personally) prefer made in Japan Sony, than the Compal (or similar company) made iPod.

No recording, no buying.

[skyther]

I meant record music! (over 8kbps) I can record speech with my pda ffs.

And I have never even talked about codecs.

I (personally) prefer made in Japan Sony, than the Compal (or similar company) made iPod.

No recording, no buying.

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1. I'm pretty sure the iTrip does more than 8kbps...

2. You have a NH600D. That's not made in Japan. So much for stating your preference.

3. Compal makes iPods? wtf?

4. Please don't buy an iPod. It's not cool to be one of those morons with white earbuds.

Seems to me that you're just making random statements that don't make much sense, if any at all. I'm going to have to warn you to do a little research before you decide to dump another load of crap so at least you'll have an idea of what you're talking about.

[Michael1980]

1. Can it record at over 128kbps? Line in? Optical in?

2.But I have other players that are made in Japan. I guess I did not make it clear, I did NOT choose NH600 over iPod but rathet the whole minidisc experience. NH600 is hardly a pillar of technology.

3.Do you think Apple produces their own items? Nope. OEM's in Taiwan do it (Compal for example).

4.I use iTunes and would like to buy iPod in the future. However iPod+recorder = too much money.

And, is an iPod recognized as a external usb drive when connected to any computer? I seriously don't know this, and if it is true, then a great plus for the iPod.

Edited January 5, 2005 by Michael1980

[Fat Tires]

The iTrip doesn't do recording at all btw. I think you meant the iTalk. It records at 8khz.

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/...k/techspecs.php

[skyther]

Nismo, I'm an idiot.

Michael, I said a couple of posts back that the only real advantage that MD has is it's recording abilities, but even so this isn't a shove-it-in-your-face-big-deal-hoohah advantage for MD, since only until very recently you couldn't even digitally transfer your recordings onto another storage medium, ie. CD, which totally defeated the purpose and for a long while actually made MD a poor choice for people who were into serious recording. Even now I still consider Sony's digital upload method to be more of a backlane-style workaround rather than an official implementation.

Now I'm not getting your second point re Japanese made products. On one hand you make it sound as if Japanese made models are real examples of quality and if you actually have as much experience with MD as you sound like you do, you'd know that the little "Made in Japan" print doesn't really say much as far as durability is concerned. For 3 whole posts you insisted that Japanese products were of superior quality and emphasized on your preference for them. That's like saying I'd really prefer to be driving a Mercedes and I have an old Mercedes but as far as the current state goes I'm only driving a Civic.

Um, duh, of course I know that these products are manufactured by OEMs. Every major multi-national company outsources production, and Sony is no exception. Half the parts in a MD portable is manufactured by Mitsumi - a company that Sony has interest in. In case you didnt know, "Made in Japan" portables aren't made by Sony - they're made by local Japanese OEMs. Kenwood is the only company that still manufactures MD portables in their own plants. Most of the time manufacturing plants aren't set up by a single entity alone. Especially when the plant is stationed overseas, a local company is usually involved in a joint-venture in operating the plant and supervising production. All that matters is that the company (Apple or Sony) has a hand in supervising production and QA.

You need to stop cherry picking the advantages of MD and placing it against the iPod. You can't say MD is both cheap AND of good quality because the NH600 is cheap an the NH1 is a quality product (assuming that it is... it's probably not at all ) where in reality the NH600 is cheap but just a plastic brick and the NH1 maybe he a quality product but no where near cheap.

[Michael1980]

Can I please have some info that state that high-end Sony products are manufactured by OEM's and not by Sony?

And can the iPod be seen as an external usb drive when connected to any pc? Like if I take to the internet cafe and download some mp3's to it (since my home connection is bad)?

Edited January 5, 2005 by Michael1980

[Skradgee]

I'm quite sure that that...thing Apple makes can be used as a USB drive for storing any type of file on it.

[Michael1980]

Yes, I know that. I am wondering whether it will be recognized by any computer as an external drive or do you have to install some software first.

[Skradgee]

No extra software is necessary. At most, Windows might have to install some USB Mass Storage device driver, but on Win2K/XP it should be recognized right away without having to reboot the computer. Win98 will prolly ask you a bunch of questions first instead of just installing it, but these days any computer that can't recognize a USB drive is a machine that's in sad shape.

Keep in mind that at a lot of coffeehouses, libraries, etc keep their computers locked down so that you can do just minimal web browsing, word processing, etc.

[Michael1980]

Oh ok. So the iPod is the same as Hi-MD. You can store stuff on it, but not music (or it least it would not play).

[Fat Tires]

The iPod also has the advantage of being able to take advantage of Firewire or USB 2.0 transfer speeds, not like Hi-MD limitaton of USB 1.1.

[skyther]

Dismantle it, and you'll get all the proof you need.

[Michael1980]

I have dismantled a Vaio laptop before. Did not see anything that implied OEMs. What exactly is there to see?

[Fat Tires]

OEMs don't generally plaster their name all over a product. You've have to do a lot of research to figure out the origins of some items.

[sony_man]

Hi-Md is only 1.1 connection!?!? For it to be able to hold as many songs as it does, you'd think it could do 2.0!

1. i also think that, Md's, CD players, Mp3 player's were all designed and built to fullfill their own purpose, and eventually fall into the hands of a person craving its qualities.

2. i would never take my ipod to the beach, regardless of the price of the player or build quality. im very cautious.

edit: just think of LCD screen scratches..... and on the ipod? that would destroy the look.

3. Skyther is right about the mirror thingy for itunes, if you dont have the original file on the program, then you cant really do anything with it other than keep it in the same place on the list and listen to it through your ipod.

4. aeriyn, i just gave my apple buds to my sister (she llooooooves them )

5. if it plays, sounds good, and wont fall apart, then its all good!

Edited January 6, 2005 by sony_man

[Damage]

BTW, Damage - that's what the X5 is for. And it's not just a raised 7 series.  

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Except the most SUVs on the road these days aren't designed for serious off-roading. I know my rig (ML Series) isn't designed for serious off road use; not enough ground clearance for one. But at least the Pope and I share the same ride (he rides a uber-riced ML vehicle, LOL)

By the by, on recording and iPod, if you install Linux on your Pod and thereby voiding your warranty, you can record CD quality audio with the regular headphone jack. However, I longer have mine to confirm.

HiMD does use 1.1 connection, and it is limited by the speed of MO Head than anything else at this moment.

And, as for the white earphones, you obviously haven't seen these yet, they date 3 years back:

White Cords and Silver Driver housing. Way before iPod. Way before white was the new black or silver in electronics.

[Michael1980]

OEMs don't generally plaster their name all over a product. You've have to do a lot of research to figure out the origins of some items.

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Still, is there any confirmation that Sony OEMs out their products.

Because it doesn't make sense.

Their low end is OEM'd out to Malaysia, but their NH1 is also OEM to Japanese Company?? Why not to Malaysia?

Recording through Linux is not a good option, although I am intrigued by it.

I have a friend who works for support section of a shop, and he says that iPods have a very high failure rate, always people bring them in.

The perfect combination would be a cheapo NH600 to record and a nice iPod to listen to [dream].

[atrain]

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/i...47471277751.xml

why not malaysia? have a look at why kenwood moved offshore manufacturing back to japan.

[aeriyn]

The problem with Hi-MD is not USB1.1, as Damage said, but the fact that magneto-optical drive systems is a fourteen year old technology. It's not going to be able to compete in a practical manner with newer drive systems.

For removable media recording, I expect that Blu-Ray will be able to trounce Hi-MD if they can find a way to satisfy the laser's high power requirements in a portable setting.

[Fat Tires]

Aeriyn, MD is about 14 years old. Magneto-optical technology is a lot older than that.

[aeriyn]

Aeriyn, MD is about 14 years old. Magneto-optical technology is a lot older than that.

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Yeah that's what I meant.

[Damage]

For removable media recording, I expect that Blu-Ray will be able to trounce Hi-MD if they can find a way to satisfy the laser's high power requirements in a portable setting.

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Considering that we still do not have a portable DVD Audio device (even a simple one that plays MP3s) on a wide basis, I wouldn't expect much in the way of such devices anytime soon.

By the by, Sony did release such device two years ago:

Everything but the kitchen sink and ATRAC playback!

Battery life, to say the least, was terrible by current Sony's standard:

10 hours MP3 playback, 4 hours Redbook Audio, 1.5 hours DVD.

Finding this unit was hard enough as is, good luck trying to find one now these days. I expect there will be some sort of portable DVD player (COBY has one that looks like a walkman with a LCD screen, 2.5 hours Battery life).

If those batterymisers at Sony haven't yet figured out a way to reduce battery life on these suckers....

[Hyena]

For removable media recording, I expect that Blu-Ray will be able to trounce Hi-MD if they can find a way to satisfy the laser's high power requirements in a portable setting.

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Hm. Methinks they should work on the price too, considering current Blu-Ray recorders are like $3K I think?

[Michael1980]

Considering that we still do not have a portable DVD Audio device (even a simple one that plays MP3s) on a wide basis, I wouldn't expect much in the way of such devices anytime soon. 

By the by, Sony did release such device two years ago:

Everything but the kitchen sink and ATRAC playback!

Battery life, to say the least, was terrible by current Sony's standard:

10 hours MP3 playback, 4 hours Redbook Audio, 1.5 hours DVD.

Finding this unit was hard enough as is, good luck trying to find one now these days.  I expect there will be some sort of portable DVD player (COBY has one that looks like a walkman with a LCD screen, 2.5 hours Battery life). 

If those batterymisers at Sony haven't yet figured out a way to reduce battery life on these suckers....

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Yes, I remember I saw that in the shop for around £200. You could connect it to your pc and use a dvd player (with USB1.1). Plus I can imagine how slow the song scrolling would be.

[Michael1980]

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/i...47471277751.xml

why not malaysia? have a look at why kenwood moved offshore manufacturing back to japan.

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Good. I wish more companies would support their local communities instead of outsourcing to cheap countries. Good for Kenwood, I wish they came out with a HiMD now.

[sony_man]

does anybody know how to actually open up the ipod's HD in order to access its space for storage? i have a lot of written document i would like to take with me back and forth.

[skyther]

Sony may be big, but they can't afford to manufacture everything by themselves. What's so suprising about a company outsourcing manufacturing of (relatively) low volume and low margin products? Even an giant of a chip manufacturer like Motorola not only outsources manufacturing but design as well.

Sony manufactures the vital components of their products by themselves - components which don't change very much in design and components that contain their trade or technology secrets. Assembly and other parts are more often done by other companies, especially with cases like MD where the product line changes every year or 2. Product line change = requirements for the manufacturing machine to be modified and Sony doesn't exactly have the capital to handle all that.

The NH1 is just a glorified NH900, and one of the reasons i'm guessing why it's made in Japan is that Sony finds it suitable for chassy metalwork (which sucks anyway, Sony MDs have the worst metalwork I've ever seen in any product) to be made there. All Sony MDPs with all-metal chassys have been Japanese made.

BTW, iPod needs no drivers for disk access. Windows has never asked me for any driver. Same goes with my lappie which doesn't even have iTunes installed.

[Damage]

The NH1 is just a glorified NH900, and one of the reasons i'm guessing why it's made in Japan is that Sony finds it suitable for chassy metalwork (which sucks anyway, Sony MDs have the worst metalwork I've ever seen in any product) to be made there. All Sony MDPs with all-metal chassys have been Japanese made.

BTW, iPod needs no drivers for disk access. Windows has never asked me for any driver. Same goes with my lappie which doesn't even have iTunes installed. 

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iPod may not need drivers for modern OSes (2000, XP, Mac OSX, linux), but it's not entirely compatible with older OSes without drivers. Also, it needs to be enabled in HD mode in iTunes, otherwise, it's just another pretty DAP with no disk access.

And I believe that the metal workings on the sony unit is top notch, having had pleny of models in full magnesium and/or partial magnesium/alumnium bodies. As a note, my Clie did take a face plant in cement, and other than having the memory stick jarred out along with the stylus, the unit suffered no harm.

Paintwork, however, is another problem altogether.

[aeriyn]

Sony's metalwork on their MDPs is very shoddy in comparison to other MD makers.

My old Sharp DS8 was much more sturdy and solid than any Sony portable I ever owned, even my tank-like R900. The N10 that I had briefly was flimsy feeling and I always felt like I had to be careful with it. Not so with the DS8.

And it does not strike me as ironic that even as rugged as the DS8 was, it's still nowhere near as tough as my iPod Mini.

Damage, I wasn't speaking of Blu-Ray in the sense of media players; I doubt very seriously that would ever happen. HDD and solid state is where the market's already at, and removable media for portable audio is dying a slow and painful death. What I meant was Blu-Ray for pro audio: i.e. recording. If they can get the power issues solved.

[Fat Tires]

FWIW, my MZ-E710 is built very well. It compares favorablely to my DR480 in build quality. My MZ-N510 is good too, for a plastic unit.

[skyther]

See gap between face and body? All my MDs have that gap, N10 being the worst and DS8 being better. The R55 wasn't too bad either. My 10 year old D-777 has near negligible gap, and both iPods have absolutely none. If that's not shoddy metalwork, I wouldn't know what it is. I've had a Clie before and that was pretty good, so I suspect that this only occurs in Sony's lower priced products.

Damage, Win 98 is no longer officially supported by M$, so I can't see a reason why most people shouldn't be using XP and 2k. Heck, if you have a need and can afford an iPod, chances are you'd be using an updated version of Windows. I really don't see it as a problem. And I've never touched that disk mode thing. Just plug it in and XP identifies it as a removable HDD. Absolutely no hassle at all - in fact the only 'external media device' that ever gave me troubles with the need for drivers were the Cyber-shot and the phone. Sony can't make anything to do with computers for sh*t, especially their overpriced, filled-with-bloatware, unable-to-function-without-Sonys-poor-arse-custom-software-and-drivers, poor-value-for-money-with-crappy-specs VAIOs. They seem to enjoy selling feces for gold, and I'm actually suprised that people haven't realized how non-competitive Sony products are. Most of the time when you pay for a brand-name product you get the satisfaction and quality that the brand offers you, but with Sony you pay for the brand that treats customers like dogs.

[Christopher]

Just plug it in and XP identifies it as a removable HDD. Absolutely no hassle at all - in fact the only 'external media device' that ever gave me troubles with the need for drivers were the Cyber-shot and the phone.

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Funny, that's exactly how my NH900 works on every single computer I've tried it on.

Sony can't make anything to do with computers for sh*t, especially their overpriced,filled-with-bloatware, unable-to-function-without-Sonys-poor-arse-custom-software-and-drivers, poor-value-for-money-with-crappy-specs VAIOs.

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Does anyone else think that's a bit over the top? Did Sony beat and rape you as a child? The angst is overwhelming.

They seem to enjoy selling feces for gold, and I'm actually suprised that people haven't realized how non-competitive Sony products are. Most of the time when you pay for a brand-name product you get the satisfaction and quality that the brand offers you, but with Sony you pay for the brand that treats customers like dogs.

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Apple is selling feces for gold; feces is simple. Sony products are not - I would say Sony are selling enemas. [Yes, I know this line will come to bite me in the ass]

I really do disagree with the overall negative view towards Sony, it makes you seem like the rest of the sheep on the internet. I mean, are they really that bad? My NH900 works wonderfully, my Sony DVD burner works without any errors; has an updated firmware and hasn't made a coaster yet, and my Sony Ericsson T610..

Oh. Well, it..blegh.

Touche'.