Live Recording Sample

[A440]

Go to http://mail.yahoo.com/ and sign in as livefrommd with password 1minidisc1

Look in the inbox for live recording samples .

If anyone else wants to upload recordings there, you are welcome to do so (box limit is 250MB, 10MB at a time), but please don't abuse it. And if anyone has some free online storage for larger files, let me know via PM here.

Edited January 5, 2005 by A440

[corien]

I get a "The folder is currently empty" message.

[A440]

Changed the Briefcase to a simple mailbox, see above.

(Previously setup as a Yahoo briefcase: Sign in as a440live with the password MZNHF800 (case sensitive). Then you should find a Music folder.)

Edited January 5, 2005 by A440

[corien]

Ooops... sorry, didn't understand that.

I've listened to the first mp3. Really good quality and clear sound (and cool piece). There is a bit of "boxed sound" effect, but that is obviously due to the ambient - on the other hand, it exactly gives the feeling of being there and live listening to the music. :cool:

[A440]

Actually, I got a better idea. Any Yahoo box holds 250 MB and can upload 10MB at a time.

I started livefrommd (at) yahoo.com

and mailed the samples to it.

The PW is 1minidisc1

Just download them from the inbox. And if anyone wants to add their recordings (<10MB), please do.

[corien]

If anyone else wants to upload recordings there, you are welcome to do so.

Thank you. To show how MD can help a (hobbist) musician and the audio quality one can expect, I've uploaded a recording of myself and a friend of mine, playing together a violin duet - Mazas Op. 38 No. 1 - 1st movement. It was recorded during a practice session with my MZ-NH1 (in Hi-SP mode). We used two Sennheiser e 835 mics and a LEM mixer. The mics were at about 40 cm from each violin, pointing to the strings. We were about 2.50 meters apart one from the other, facing one the other. The line out from the mixer went into the line in of the MD recorder. I used manual recording volume - I set it to 22, but this value of course depends also on the mixer settings.

A440, thank you and please delete my mp3 if you need to free space in your briefcase. :smile:

EDIT: Oooops... I posted this before I could see that you posted your last message. My mp3 was uploaded in the briefcase of your first post. Should I transfer it to the new location?

[Christopher]

A440, you'll enjoy the new server when we will host this for you, free of charge. I plan to build a large archive of samples, live music, ambient, etc. I hope that when people hear what these machines can do, they will understand why we're so enthusiastic about it. :happy:

[Soapm]

Now that's what I'm taking about! I just listened to a file named end over end from Joseph Arthur "Echo Park". What a difference from this POS digital recorder I got for Christmas. I can't wait for my NH900 to arrive but it just shipped today.

[A440]

The song is from Joseph Arthur. The jazz instrumental is called "End over End."

[MZ-NH1]

A440, you'll enjoy the new server when we will host this for you, free of charge. I plan to build a large archive of samples, live music, ambient, etc. I hope that when people hear what these machines can do, they will understand why we're so enthusiastic about it. :happy:

←

FANTASTIC IDEA!

[dex Otaku]

@wheeeeeeeeee!

[mgdimo]

A440 and any other recordists,

Could you just remind us of the equipment and settings you used? Did I miss that somewhere? So far all recordings are cool and unique in terms of an accurate reproduction of what was actually heard in the room.

What a fantastic notion!! A database of MD recordings to complement these forums. I'm envisioning it set up very much like this board: MD recordings by category... live music, nature/ambient, indoor v. outdoor, spoken word. Not so much to trade bootleg recordings, but to discuss and reference the pedagogy behind the recording process and the circumstances involving THAT recording that we can listen to. Cheers!!

[A440]

New one today--some blues for you.

Edited January 6, 2005 by A440

[corien]

New one today--look in the Sent box.

←

It is also in the received box. Listening to it. Nice! Thanks for posting it.

Yep, you're right, there is perhaps a bit too much bass - high frequencies seem a bit lacking in comparison. A question: why did you use AGC? Using manual volume is recommended by most people here...

Another question: what happens if two users (i.e. with different IP's) access the same yahoo mail account at the same time? Is there any danger that it will be blocked?

[mgdimo]

Maybe it's my ears or my speakers, but it sounds to me like the AGC is compensating for every bass drum and snare drum attack. The phasing almost becomes part of the music because it's on every beat. Does anyone else hear what I'm hearing?

[corien]

Maybe it's my ears or my speakers, but it sounds to me like the AGC is compensating for every bass drum and snare drum attack. The phasing almost becomes part of the music because it's on every beat. Does anyone else hear what I'm hearing?

←

After listening again to it, I think you could be right, unless it is an effect of the room acoustics. If I find some time, tomorrow I want to try an experiment. I'll play a song from a CD in my Hi-Fi, and will record it on MD with my mic: one time with AGC on, another time with manual volume on. It will be interesting to compare the results. I'll post them in that Yahoo e-mail box.

[A440]

Agreed, Manual would have been better for the Mayer recording. But the lights went down too quickly to go through the whole rigamarole necessary for using Manual, and it was better to get the recording imperfectly with AGC than not to have it at all. And now people can hear AGC at work.

One thing I've been trying is to set the recording volume to Manual outside the venue and leave it on Pause until showtime. But do that too soon, and you have to start worrying about battery life.

I have no idea what Yahoo does with multiple logins. Maybe someday we'll find out.

And Corien, I suggest you make those CD samples short so the recording-industry watchdogs don't get touchy.

[corien]

Agreed, Manual would have been better for the Mayer recording. But the lights went down too quickly to go through the whole rigamarole necessary for using Manual, and it was better to get the recording imperfectly with AGC than not to have it at all. And now people can hear AGC at work.

←

AGC can be anyway helpful when you have no time (or no lights, but I have backlight on the remote of my MZ-NH1) to setup manual volume. Overall, I think that AGC doesn't work too bad.

And Corien, I suggest you make those CD samples short so the recording-industry watchdogs don't get touchy.

←

Yeah, you're right. I must think of how to do it, perhaps recording just a well-chosen few seconds would be enough for the comparison. Otherwise, I'll look in my CD collection for not very known CD's. I have a few ones that I bought after live events of not very known local artists that self produced them, yet the CD quality is quite good. I could record a few second from them.

Another possibility - not to infringe copyright restrictions - would be to put on CD some well chosen Open Source audio downloaded from the Internet Archive, and then try my experiment.

EDIT: Perhaps this could be OK? (It is taken from an original CD and one can download even flac or wav formats).

Edited January 6, 2005 by corien

[corien]

I've done a first experiment. In this one I used Mic Sens High. Perhaps in a next one I'll try to Mic Sens set to low. The results (3 mp3 files) are in the Yahoo mailbox owned by A440 (see above).

My recording equipment:

Sony Hi-MD MZ-NH1

Sony ECM-MS907 stereo mic (set to 90 degs capture angle in order to reduce the reverb from the lateral walls of the room)

The song I used for the experiment is an open source one, downloaded from here (ogg version)

http://www.archive.org/audio/audio-details...pensource_audio

There you will find also details about the band, the song, and its licensing rights. The results report the first 30 secs of the song.

I converted the song to wav and burned it on an audio CD. Then I played it in my Hi-Fi. The speakers were about 2.50 meters apart. The mic was positioned in a central position in front of the speakers, about 2 meters from the line joining them. The underlying idea was to simulate a live session in my room.

The three recordings (self-explaining names of the mp3 files) are:

1) Manual Volume set to 16

2) AGC set to Standard

3) AGC set to Loud Music

The recording mode was Hi-SP in all the three cases.

I hope to have not forgot any other essential detail. In case just ask.

What I can say by now is that case 2) clipped. However, AGC (Loud Music) seems to work pretty good. However, I'm not really an audiophile, so comments are welcome.

EDIT: I forgot to say that the track is "Heart on a platter"

Edited January 6, 2005 by corien

[spg66]

Free audio storage = www.archive.org/audio/etree.php.

If the band you are recording is listed as an approved band, you can upload/download to your heart's content. If you want to get a band approved (and you have a band contact) there is a means to do this as well.

[corien]

Free audio storage = www.archive.org/audio/etree.php. 

If the band you are recording is listed as an approved band, you can upload/download to your heart's content.  If you want to get a band approved (and you have a band contact) there is a means to do this as well.

←

Your link points actually to the "Live Music Archive".

I chose a band from another archive, the "Open Source Audio" one; for the bands listed therein there is already a licensing statement - usually Creative Commons - about what you can do and what you can't do with the music you download.

[Christopher]

I just wanted to note that the Webmaster is very interested in my idea about storing live recordings for some of you folk when we migrate to the new server [which will be very soon]. So, expect more on this towards the end of the month.

[corien]

I just wanted to note that the Webmaster is very interested in my idea about storing live recordings for some of you folk when we migrate to the new server [which will be very soon]. So, expect more on this towards the end of the month.

←

That's a brilliant idea! Thank you.

[bigbeefdog]

Greetings from a converted lurker.

Added, in the inbox, a link to my Yahoo briefcase which contains some rock stuff recorded on MD. All copyright- and restriction-free (it's my band, so the copyright is mine to enforce or waive - consider it waived. Won't tell 'ya which instrument I'm playing, tho.... ).

Enjoy. Any suggestions on how to improve, I'm all ears.

BBD

[squaredcircle]

Another new recording at livefrommd : African music by Mory Kante, a griot from Guinea who's been making pop-fusion records but has gone back to acoustic instruments. It's at a club, so there's conversation, and to fit it into the mailbox I had to convert it down to 128k Mp3, but the detail is still excellent. It's a 12-piece band, and the balafon player is smokin'!

NHF-800, by the way

[dex Otaku]

Another new recording at livefrommd  : African music by Mory Kante, a griot from Guinea who's been making pop-fusion records but has gone back to acoustic instruments. It's at a club, so there's conversation, and to fit it into the mailbox I had to convert it down to 128k Mp3, but the detail is still excellent. It's a 12-piece band, and the balafon player is smokin'! 

NHF-800, by the way

←

Looking forward to hearing this.

[squaredcircle]

Also posted another one: Cuban jazz.

[emeb]

Here's a short one (15 seconds) - a live recording of a bird sitting in the branches outside my office window. This section is short, cut from a longer session. The whole recording is about 5 minutes long and includes a lot of ambient sounds, including cars driving by, gates opening, car doors slamming. It really highlights the sensitivity of the mics and recorder. The biggest lesson learned is that the AGC should be used with caution!

Equipment used: MZ NHF800 with home-made binaural electrets (not mounted binaural though)

Eric

[Tourist]

Hello to all. Check out the first gig since 1981 by the original lineup of the G ang of Four at livefrommd .

Edited January 26, 2005 by Tourist

[PlanetEarth]

i uploaded a song using my mz-37 with a ECM-719 mic. Not bad for a nearly 10 year old MD device. It's a live rock Incubus concert.

[allons dansez]

Some red-hot Louisiana music has been added to livefrommd.

The great slide guitarist Sonny Landreth and his band.

[Christopher]

I wish to pin this thread to the top of the forum so people who check out the "Live Recording" forum will be able to hear the reason why MD is so slick.

[pmvn]

I wish to pin this thread to the top of the forum so people who check out the "Live Recording" forum will be able to hear the reason why MD is so slick.

←

Good thing, but I wonder, can I suggest everybody here to use either AAC (Apples itunes compression, M4A extension) or Ogg Vorbis for compression?

mp3 is really showing it's age and I can cleary give you examples where AAC shines over mp3, consider listening to Bjork's "Frosti" from the album "vespertine"

I know mp3 is the de-facto standard but when you use HiMDrenderer I'd use Ogg or FLAC (but that'll be a no-go because of file-size)

For storage I have a free 1GB mailbox with mediacenter where everybody can download (also with optional passwd) but it's in german (GMX.net) : ( I don't know about Gmail from Google...

Anyone?

Paul

PS: I have some jazz recordings in Hi-SP taken with Sony ECM-717 and NH1 they sound wonderfull.

[A440]

Another recording in the Inbox: a club gig by an English rock band that played at nearly painful volume, but the Radio Shack attenuator and Low Sensitivity handled it.

It has convinced me to raise my previous settings as long as I'm using the attenuator and Low Sensitivity.

With the attentuator, 10/30 is definitely too conservative. But later in the set, when the band got even louder, 18/30 would have been better than 20/30.

[LowMach]

Hello-

I went to the yahoo mail box and listened to tore down by john mayer and the english band show. I think they sound great, so I would like to pester you for some info!?

So this was recorded with your omnis plugged into the mic in?

Did you max the md's recording volume and use the rs switch to control the levels watching the md's level meter? Or is that what AGC does?

What do you mean by 20/30? the rs = 20 the md = 30?

How far from the stage where you?

I'm a total noob and just collected some gear: mz-r900 and some omni microphones based on the panasonic AM modules. I've also built a battery box, but not sure which capacitors to run in it. I don't know the the line in impedance of my unit. Right now I have 2 - 1.0uf capacitors in it nad have no clue what the roll off frequency is?

Anyways I like the recordings using the RS unit and may use that instead of the battery box at a loud show I'll be going to next week.

8-)

[A440]

* So this was recorded with your omnis plugged into the mic in?

Omni--RS Headphone VC--Mic-In

* Did you max the md's recording volume and use the rs switch to control the levels watching the md's level meter? Or is that what AGC does?

Watching the MD's level meters is impossible in the dark and that's probably just as well. It's better to set it conservatively than to keep fidgeting with it.

Definitely don't max the MD's volume or you'll just get a horrible overload. I used to use the RS volume control to control input volume, but you get static each time you move it unless it's brand new.

For the MZ-R900 set the mic to LOW sensitivity, turn the RS to its max and leave it there--it's still cutting the signal. Then use Rec/Pause with the disc in the MD and set it to Manual Volume, more below.

I forget whether the MZ-R900 goes back automatically to AGC when you push Stop, but I suspect it does, so once you've set it to manual volume, put it on Pause until you record.

Listen to "Tore Down" and you'll hear AGC trying to compensate for the bass and bass drum, kind of a whooshing sound. That's why manual volume is better if you have enough headroom.

* What do you mean by 20/30? the rs = 20 the md = 30?

That's on the MD itself. When you set Manual Volume it reads x/30 on the MD. It's best to just set it and forget it, and I've found 20/30, or 15/30 if it's really going to blast, works well with the RS and Low Sensitivity. Test it with your stereo at home.

*How far from the stage were you?

Different at each show. About halfway back at M ayer in a big room, about 15 feet from Ka iser Chiefs in a small room. It's not how close, it's how loud that matters. Just try to find a spot where the sound is balanced, which is probably not superclose to the stage, because the PA is pointed over your head.

*I don't know the the line in impedance of my unit. Right now I have 2 - 1.0uf capacitors in it nad have no clue what the roll off frequency is?

Search these forums for rolloff and impedance, and look in the Construction Projects category on the opening page, right side. I think that info may be here. If not, try Google--someone must have figured that out.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of battery box you've built. Is it just providing power to the mics? Or is it providing some kind of bass rolloff? I'm not a big believer in bass rolloff, because once it's gone from the recording you can't restore it. I'd rather record at a lower level and get the way the show really sounded. As long as the bass doesn't overload the preamp, which the RS will help prevent, you can always filter it during playback or re-recording. Other users disagree, however.

Another tip on the MZ-R900: tape your battery latch shut. Otherwise it can get jostled open in your pocket or at a crowded show.

[LowMach]

Hi- Thanks for the reply and the advice.

I found the service manual for my unit and after looking at the schematics I found 47k ohm resistors in seies with the line in input. My battery box that I constructed is to provide the mics with 9 volts of power. I've played with my battery box capacitor values and went with a bass rolloff of 72hz (.047 uf caps). My mics seem very bassy to my ears. I will record this week some live music this week with the bat box / rs gizmo and get a better feel for the settings. I will install a switch for the rolloff values later.

Now for a couple more questions

my md doesn't indicate record volume as xx/30, but has a slide meter. I assume I need to set it manually to 20 out of 30 possible bars which is about 2/3rds of max?

Did you have the mics on your head or on your body? I'm nervous about the wires running down the back of my neck and being seen, so I'm hoping to tape with the mics peaking out of my collar or something.

Is their anyway around this hideous rec/pause manual volume thing?

Are you recording in lp2 mode, so you want have to switch discs?

Cheers

[A440]

Sorry, I forgot that the R series has the slide meters. Yes, use it at about 2/3. If there's enough light to watch the levels bounce, you can play with it during the opening act. You can fine-tune in Pause or use the RS to change levels in realtime, but you may get static when you move the RS volume control. I recommend setting it and leaving it.

I have the omnis on clips and I clip them to my collar. Before you leave the house, slip the mic cord down your shirt and fold the mics over the top button of your shirt so you can tuck them back in. The mic plug can come out a lower shirt button and run along your belt loops, and you can keep the MD in your pocket, camera case, etc. When the lights go down at the concert, fish out the mics and clip them to your collar--pointed out, left and right, if you're going to be listening via headphones.

Higher up, like on a hat or glasses, might be better if you don't turn your head a lot, but the collar works for me.

Purists record in SP, which is better. But I have lots of LP2 recordings I'm happy with.

There's no way around the Manual Volume hassle. Sony seems perversely attached to making it difficult--it hasn't changed with NetMD or HiMd.

[Christopher]

Members, you no longer need this as I've instituted the live recording archive* here at the forums. Have fun!

* - [within the gallery link at the top of the forum]

p.s. unstickied.