Possible To Charge An Nh1 With Car Power Adapter?

[smilingcrow]

I have an NH1 on order but it’s just dawned on me that I may be away from mains power for quite a while whilst camping. Is there a generic car power adapter that I can use to charge the Sony? What do I need to lookout for when buying one of these units? i.e. amps, tip type etc.

I have a car charger that charges AA & AAA, so I may have to return the NH1 and buy one of the other models that accepts AA batteries.

I tried searching the forum but ‘car’ is too short a word for the search engine.

[mcca6392]

I have an NH1 on order but it’s just dawned on me that I may be away from mains power for quite a while whilst camping.  Is there a generic car power adapter that I can use to charge the Sony?  What do I need to lookout for when buying one of these units? i.e. amps, tip type etc.

I have a car charger that charges AA & AAA, so I may have to return the NH1 and buy one of the other models that accepts AA batteries.

I tried searching the forum but ‘car’ is too short a word for the search engine.

←

You're going to want 3v; refer to the tip polarity mentioned on your unit. Look carefully at your DC input on it; it'll point to the inner tip being one polarity or the other. My RH10 says the inner prong is positive; outer casing being negative. This is pretty much the way across all Sonys.

You can go a few ways here. One, is that all Sony Car Kit'ed MDs had a 3V car adapter. I lost mine with my NetMD N707, but I bought one off Ebay a few weeks back for about $8. Now I gotta find it again......

Sony also has an aftermarket car adapter; it switches between 3 and 4.5 V, I think; it therefore can power both MD and CD Walkmen. There are two different tips included so that you can match them to which unit you're using.

Or you can find some generic replacement, in which the voltage is selectable, and the tips interchangeable. Only downside to this (or the 2nd Sony solution) is that they can sometimes easily be knocked out of the proper voltage setting, tips can be lost, or installed backwards (you need to match the proper polarities with certain sides of the cable). In my mind, the OEM Sony 3V adapter is the best way to go, and if you don't mind Ebay, I'd try there. That's also where I got my 'car' MD remote control.

Hope this helps.....

[The Low Volta]

I do not own a NH1 so I can't be completely sure...but I actually believe the NH1 doesn't have a regular DC-in, it charges only through the connection with it's charging stand... this connection is proprietary stuff (i.e. only made by Sony, and only for just this one or a few models) and also has a proprietary battery so no external charging either... so, no luck I'm afraid...

IMHO return the NH1 and get a NH900 or a (Japanese import) RH10... they do not have any proprietary parts, can do everything the NH1 can (except for the timestamp feature) and offer the AA-addon which gives way more flexibility... As they have regular DC-ins, you could also find car adapters or as they use a gumstick battery, a gumstick charger with car adapter

Greetings, Volta

[veezhun]

You're going to want 3v; refer to the tip polarity mentioned on your unit.  Look carefully at your DC input on it; it'll point to the inner tip being one polarity or the other.  My RH10 says the inner prong is positive; outer casing being negative.  This is pretty much the way across all Sonys.

You can go a few ways here.  One, is that all Sony Car Kit'ed MDs had a 3V car adapter.  I lost mine with my NetMD N707, but I bought one off Ebay a few weeks back for about $8.  Now I gotta find it again......

Sony also has an aftermarket car adapter; it switches between 3 and 4.5 V, I think; it therefore can power both MD and CD Walkmen.  There are two different tips included so that you can match them to which unit you're using.

Or you can find some generic replacement, in which the voltage is selectable, and the tips interchangeable.  Only downside to this (or the 2nd Sony solution) is that they can sometimes easily be knocked out of the proper voltage setting, tips can be lost, or installed backwards (you need to match the proper polarities with certain sides of the cable).  In my mind, the OEM Sony 3V adapter is the best way to go, and if you don't mind Ebay, I'd try there.  That's also where I got my 'car' MD remote control.

Hope this helps.....

←

the nh1 has a 6V adapter that goes into the charging stand... the 3V wont work..

[The Low Volta]

the nh1 has a 6V adapter that goes into the charging stand

ah yes, forgot about the possibility to use a car-adapter for the DC-in on the charging stand...but then you'd have to take the charging stand with you on trips...

Volta

[MZ-NH1]

If there was such a device which let us charge our MZ-NH1's in the car, I would be the 1st person to buy one!

[The Low Volta]

If there was such a device which let us charge our MZ-NH1's in the car

well, as it is possible to find non-sony chargers that can do the correct type of 3V (I mean with the correct connector)...it could also be possible to find a car adapter that can do 6V and has the connector to plug it into the NH1-charging cradle...so perhaps there is a solution, even though it would imply carrying the cradle with you always

Volta

[bobt]

If you are handy with a soldering iron, or comfortable doing a bit of wiring modification you could plug in your cradle, see which pins have the 6 volts, get a cable from Sony, make an adapter from lighter to cable, or carry your cradle and use a lighter adapter that has variable voltage output.

Bob

[smilingcrow]

Thanks for all the replies. I read the online pdf manuals and noticed that the NH1 is 6V whereas the NH900/RH910 are 3V. Does anyone know what ampage the NH1 and NH900/Rh910 power supplies output?

I can get a universal car adapter from Maplin for £9 that handles both those voltages and outputs 1A, not sure if that’s enough though? It comes with 6 interchangeable tips, which begs the question, are the DC-In connections on the Sony power supplies non standard?

Another option is to get a Belkin AC Anywhere car adapter, which will be flexible enough to handle anything I throw at it within the unit’s power range. This gives you a standard 2 or 3 pin power socket (country specific) that you can treat like a wall socket. The 140W watts AC 230V UK version is £31 at Amazon.

That will take care of all my charging needs without me having to worry about getting the exact voltage and amps matched. It’s starting to look attractive right now as I need a charger for my Zen Xtra and any other gear that I take camping with me. See link below:

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage...oduct_Id=122375

The NH900 is starting to look more attractive to me, although it’s the same price as the RH910! I prefer the look of the NH910 due to the larger screen and can live with the remote not being an LCD. For use just as a voice recorder are there any significant disadvantages with the RH910 versus the NH900?

[The Low Volta]

that car-2-plug adapter looks promising... but about this other question:

The NH900 is starting to look more attractive to me, although it’s the same price as the RH910!  I prefer the look of the NH910 due to the larger screen and can live with the remote not being an LCD.  For use just as a voice recorder are there any significant disadvantages with the RH910 versus the NH900?

I suggest you have a look at the minidisc.org aquipment browser, read all about it @ MDCF especially in the "find your minidisc"-section and post further questions about the differences in a (new) thread in that section...as it is quite off topic (even though this was your own thread )

Volta

[smilingcrow]

I suggest you have a look at the minidisc.org aquipment browser, read all about it @ MDCF especially in the "find your minidisc"-section and post further questions about the differences in a (new) thread in that section...as it is quite off topic (even though this was your own thread   )

Volta

←

You're right of course, and I already have a thread open regarding the subject!

I find it so hard to make equipment choices without being able to handle the bloody things, aaagh.

[smilingcrow]

I did a bit more detective work and came up with the following information on the power supply outputs:

NH1 6V 800 mA

NH700 3V 1,000 mA

I’ve sourced a 1,500 mA car adapter which supports both voltages; I need it that high for my Zen Xtra. Is it okay to use a converter which is rated for a higher number of mA?

[The Low Volta]

I do not know if that would be OK, but remember that to get that power actually into the NH1 itself, you need the charging stand (it only charges through that)...so the connector from the adapter should be compatible with the DC-in on the stand!

[1kyle]

I do not know if that would be OK, but remember that to get that power actually into the NH1 itself, you need the charging stand (it only charges through that)...so the connector from the adapter should be compatible with the DC-in on the stand!

←

The USB ===> NH1 cable is the same as the USB====>NZ10 (NET-MD) one

so I'm "Breaking" one to find out which two pins carry the current.

When I've done this not only will I have "Rechargeable" via "Bog standard chargers" --I'll also be able to make myself an "External Battery Pack".

Will keep you posted on how I progress with this.

Since the MZ10 (NET-MD) allows you to connect an external power supply to the cradle and has a Separate USB connector to connect the cradle to the computer -while connected to an external current source then this approach should work. (The external USB connector on the cradle is the same as the USB cable that you plug directly into the device when not using the cradle (again NZ10 --Not NH1).

If it doesn't work then I've only broken one cable and since I have two --so what.

I would really like an external power pack for the NH1.

If you have "Soldering Iron Phobia" then don't try it.

Worth a try. I'll keep you posted and if it DOES work I'll upload some pics.

Cheers

-K.

Edited June 28, 2005 by 1kyle

[bjsilva]

I would really like an external power pack for the NH1.

I am in the process of working on such a thing, though I don't know if it'll see the light of day. I'll certainly make it known if it does.

[MZ-NH1]

Yeh the bumma would be having to carry the cradle with you everywhere you go

[1kyle]

I am in the process of working on such a thing, though I don't know if it'll see the light of day. I'll certainly make it known if it does.

←

The "Cable" solution works fine

Now to "add" a battery holder and I'm done.

You DO need to get the proper cables (The plug into the Unit is a SONY proprietary one so You'll have to cannibalize a cable).

Cheers

-K

[smilingcrow]

Thanks all. I’ve decided to scrap the NH1 because of the battery issue and all that proprietary stuff et al. I picked up a new NH700 at a good price, and can’t really justify the extra expense of a NH900.

I’m glad I started the thread as it’s made me aware of in-car power invertors. I picked up a 150W unit today for £20. It’s bulkier and more expensive than a simple DC voltage converter but far more flexible. I can recharge a laptop and even an NH1, provided I remember the cradle

Happy charging.

[bjsilva]

Now to "add" a battery holder and I'm done.

You DO need to get the proper cables (The plug into the Unit is a SONY proprietary  one so You'll have to cannibalize a cable).

Yeah, right now I'm making use of the existing USB->proprietary cable, which every NH1 owner should have (unless they threw it away). The USB port would just plug into the battery pack. Not as nice as Sony's traditional battery packs, but it is the the simplest and cheapest option. If things don't work out well, I have someone who can research getting hold (if possible) of the proprietary connector and then the product would probably end up like Sony's battery boxes. I should know soon what's happening.

[1kyle]

Yeah, right now I'm making use of the existing USB->proprietary cable, which every NH1 owner should have (unless they threw it away). The USB port would just plug into the battery pack. Not as nice as Sony's traditional battery packs, but it is the the simplest and cheapest option. If things don't work out well, I have someone who can research getting hold (if possible) of the proprietary connector and then the product would probably end up like Sony's battery boxes. I should know soon what's happening.

←

I've made one using the USB cable (I had 2 cables so could afford to "Cut one" up).

Mine works fine and you can even charge in the car as well ( Need a 12V / 3 V inverter) .

Also works with my NZ-10 unit.

Maybe I'll buy some cables and market these at 40 USD a pop !.

It's simple once you've discovered the two leads that carry the current.

If you haven't done this before pratice on some old cables since the Sony cables are not always easy to get hold of.

Cheers

-K

Edited June 30, 2005 by 1kyle

[Damage]

A tad simpler option is to use the mini-dock that comes with HD3 walkman. As such, both uses the same proprietary connector and the same DC Connector (6V IIRC).

IF you have one, luck you, then cut off the little plastic tab on top, and you should be able to plug in the NH1 with the mini-dock/dongle.

Item in question, uses 6V (800mA) DC Connector.

As for USB cords and such, there are five colored wires inside a USB cord. IIRC, the Black wire is Ground and Red wire is VCC+, though I might be wrong on this. One fo the cables carry data, and the other is VCC-, but it's hazy ATM. Haven't hacked a USB cable in a while.

[1kyle]

A tad simpler option is to use the mini-dock that comes with HD3 walkman.  As such, both uses the same proprietary connector and the same DC Connector (6V IIRC). 

IF you have one, luck you, then cut off the little plastic tab on top, and you should be able to plug in the NH1 with the mini-dock/dongle.

Item in question, uses 6V (800mA) DC Connector.

As for USB cords and such, there are five colored wires inside a USB cord.  IIRC, the Black wire is Ground and Red wire is VCC+, though I might be wrong on this.  One fo the cables carry data, and the other is VCC-, but it's hazy ATM.  Haven't hacked a USB cable in a while.

←

Volt meter across the Red + Black gives 6V -- don't swap the polarity though or it won't work.

Cheers

-K

[vitvip]

Mine works fine and you can even charge in the car as well ( Need a 12V / 3 V inverter) .

←

I don't understand this part. 3 V? NH1 uses 6 V for the charging cradle. Morever, I thought it was possible to EITHER power the unit from USB OR to charge it on the cradle (takes 6 V external PS, has circuit board inside and likely uses completely different pins of the proprietary connector, charging Li-Ion is not a routine task. On the other hand, LIP-4WM has only 2 contact pads, but who knows).

[1kyle]

I don't understand this part. 3 V? NH1 uses 6 V for the charging cradle. Morever, I thought it was possible to EITHER power the unit from USB OR to charge it on the cradle (takes 6 V external PS, has circuit board inside and likely uses completely different pins of the proprietary connector, charging Li-Ion is not a routine task. On the other hand, LIP-4WM has only 2 contact pads, but who knows).

←

Was a typo should of course be 6V

the connector wires go direct to the 6V on the cradle That's why you have to "cut the USB end" off the cable and use your cable so the unit thinks it's actually attached to the cradle. (Known in the Antique furniture trade as "Poodle-Faking").

At the other end (where you have the loose wires (You've cut the USB plug off BTW) you only need the red and black wires which you can connect to ane external 6V power source (correct polarity of course).

Remeber the only contact to the NH1 and the power supply is via the cradle --so at least 2 of those pins MUST carry current from the 6V in to the device. You could of course break open the cradle --but cutting a cable is a lot cheaper !!!!

Cheers

-K

Edited July 1, 2005 by 1kyle

[Damage]

As a note, the USB bus is only supposed to supply 5V across VCC and Ground, not 6V (I forget the current).

[1kyle]

As a note, the USB bus is only supposed to supply 5V across VCC and Ground, not 6V (I forget the current).

←

That's why the cradle doesn't connect to the USB (Or you can't have the unit attached to the computer when in the cradle).

Cheers

-K

[vitvip]

Let's sort it all out

the connector wires go direct to the 6V on the cradle  That's why you have to "cut the USB end" off the cable and use your cable  so the unit thinks it's actually attached to the cradle.  (Known in the Antique furniture trade as "Poodle-Faking").

At the other end (where you have the loose wires (You've cut the USB plug off BTW) you only need the red and black wires which you can connect to ane external 6V power source (correct polarity of course).

Remeber the only contact to the NH1 and the power supply is via the cradle --so at least 2 of those pins MUST carry current from the 6V in to the device.  You could of course break open the cradle --but  cutting a cable is a lot cheaper !!!!

←

Well, the proprietary connector has something like 10 pins. Inside USB cable there are 4 wires, right? I guess that you mean that the same wires (black and red, could you tell USB or proprietary connector pin numbers instead?) are used to power the NH1 when it senses 5 V (500 mA, that's it fact USB standard) AND to charge the battery when it senses 6 V (@ 800 mA). I don't understand why cutting off the USB connector would make any difference from not connecting it.

How can you be sure that there are just wires inside the cradle? Those who opened the cradle say there's a circuit board inside:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=9066&hl=

There is a possibility that the circuit board is connected only to the OTHER pins of the proprietary connector (e.g. to monitor temperature, current or smth. to be able to intrerrupt 6 V in case something goes wrong. I am afraid this circuit board is also there to stop charging when the battery is full) But then again there must be at least relay switch on the 6 V lines, which means not just wires.

[1kyle]

Let's sort it all out

Well, the proprietary connector has something like 10 pins.  Inside USB cable there are 4 wires, right? I guess that you mean that the same wires (black and red, could you tell USB or proprietary connector pin numbers instead?) are used to power the NH1 when it senses 5 V (500 mA, that's it fact USB standard) AND to charge the battery when it senses 6 V (@ 800 mA). I don't understand why cutting off the USB connector would make any difference from not connecting it.

How can you be sure that there are just wires inside the cradle? Those who opened the cradle say there's a circuit board inside:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=9066&hl=

There is a possibility that the circuit board is connected only to the OTHER pins of the proprietary connector (e.g. to monitor temperature, current or smth. to be able to intrerrupt 6 V in case something goes wrong. I am afraid this circuit board is also there to stop charging when the battery is full) But then again there must be at least relay switch on the 6 V lines, which means not just wires.

←

If you actually open it you'll find eventually that there are 2 leads for the 6v Charging.

The other leads go into the cirrcuit board which reads the condition of the battery and operates the display ( ---30MIN or whatever ) when you are charging the battery. and then switches the charger off when the timer has counted down. These have NO function when OPERATING the device .

So we are trying to address 2 problems here ---

1) Operating the device from an external power supply -- that's the EASY bit which the USB cable and the 2 leads do.

2) Charging the battery --- that's also easy -- any domestic 4V charger will do --a Motorola phone charger will do with the ends cut off and attach to the two leads

of the LIP-4WM battery. Charge it up for approx 60 mins when discharged

Whilst the device operates at 4.5 V it's operating range is fine from 6V - 3.5V.

Some circuitry inside is also 6V-4.8V DC-DC inverter .

We are just trying to get the BASIC charging and playing functions to work -- of course I can't replicate the internal timing circuitry and relays to switch the charger off.

For me the most important part was to get a decent source of PORTABLE EXTERNAL power so I'm not dependent on the Sony battery alone.

For charging the method WILL work -- but the cradle is sufficient for me

BTW check this out -- Your unit will work WITH THE BATTERRY REMOVED and the unit just plugged into the cradle --this also shows that my method will work for supplying external power to the devices.

Cheers

-K

Edited July 2, 2005 by 1kyle

[Artstar]

Having read through the service manual, pin 1 of the proprietary connector accepts a 6V feed. So if you want to charge the battery as well, then I would suggest sticking to the 6V nominal value. Furthermore, given the fact that the nominal 12V line does fluctuate somewhat with respect to engine revolutions (the regulator of an alternator is far from ideal), I would strongly recommend the use of a regulated 6V car adapter.

Now as everyone else has suggested (or at least hinted), it is possible to power and/or charge the battery simultaneously with a modified Sony cable. However, having closely examined the schematic and IC block diagrams, the other conclusion I have come to is that charging and USB data transfer cannot occur simultaneously (once the cradle has been modified to suit) because it's not just a case of 4 wires (+6V, GND, USB+ and USB-). We also need the USB +5V line to be fed into pin 3 which serves the purpose of supplying power to the NH1 as well as serving the purpose of a logic signal to switch the unit into PC mode.

What is unclear due to the the non-existent IC block diagram of the system IC (IC801 - most likely because it's so complex Sony felt that there was no value in publishing it) is whether or not there is an isolating mechanism within to prevent the connection of the 6V supply to the USB +5V supply thereby preventing any damage to both the NH1 and your PC.

Furthermore, even if we were to split the 6V feed into pin 1 and an LM7805 voltage regulator then feeding pin 3, the system control IC will either be confused as it has now a PC and a power supply plugged in so it won't know how to handle the charging and powering process at the same time (because Sony would not have accounted for it) or otherwise, it will simply have the unit powered but not charging because it is in PC mode.

Or in the best case scenario, it could all work but given the lack of information in the service manual, I'm not prepared to prove my theory wrong by risking damage to my NH1 and PC so screw that!!

It's a shame. I was quite looking forward to charging and transferring at the same time. No big deal though.

[1kyle]

Having read through the service manual, pin 1 of the proprietary connector accepts a 6V feed. So if you want to charge the battery as well, then I would suggest sticking to the 6V nominal value. Furthermore, given the fact that the nominal 12V line does fluctuate somewhat with respect to engine revolutions (the regulator of an alternator is far from ideal), I would strongly recommend the use of a regulated 6V car adapter.

It's a shame. I was quite looking forward to charging and transferring at the same time. No big deal though.

←

Anyway the most useful part is being able to use External Batteries --so if you are away from power and / or don't want to use a "Home Made" charger then just using the 6V wires to a battery back will be fine (and you can use 4X 2200mh re-chargeables). That should give you as much power as you need and there are plenty of "cases" you can stick 4X 1.5V batteries in. Have the wire coming out of your "battery pack" with the propiertary pin plugged into your NH1.

Now you've got unlimited power.

Cheers

-K

[Artstar]

Anyway the most useful part is being able to use External  Batteries --so if you are away from power and / or don't want to use a "Home Made" charger then just using the 6V wires to a battery back will be fine (and you can use 4X 2200mh re-chargeables). That should give you as much power as you need and there are plenty of "cases" you can stick 4X 1.5V batteries in. Have the wire coming out of your "battery pack" with the propiertary pin plugged into your NH1.

Now you've got unlimited power.

Cheers

-K

←

I plan to do that for my long plane trips ... the only thing that sucks about living in Australia - 24 hour flights to other parts of the world! Just 4 x AA lithium batteries and I'm laughing 3#-)

[vitvip]

using the 6V wires to a battery back will be fine (and you can use 4X 2200mh re-chargeables). That should give you as much power as you need and there are plenty of "cases" you can stick 4X 1.5V batteries in. Have the wire coming out of your "battery pack" with the propiertary pin plugged into your NH1.

←

4 x 1.2 V = 4.8 V. Will it be enough? If so, one would also be able charge from USB the way I do with my cellphone when I accidentally find the battery low away from home (However, USB is limited to 500 mA vs 800 mA of the 6 V adapter)

Still confused about 6 V lead... Is it inside USB cable?

Edited July 3, 2005 by vitvip

[Artstar]

4 x 1.2 V = 4.8 V. Will it be enough? If so, one would also be able charge from USB the way I do with my cellphone when I accidentally find the battery low away from home (However, USB is limited to 500 mA vs 800 mA of the 6 V adapter)

Still confused about 6 V lead... Is it inside USB cable?

←

So long as the power is not being supplied on pin 3 (which is where the USB's +5V feed goes to), you'll be fine. Keep in mind as well that the USB only powers the unit but does not charge it. What you are achieving here is a feed into the system which will be at least enough to power it and if the charge controller finds the power from your external source is sufficient, it will run in parallel with your gumpack battery as though it were attempting to charge the battery.

Run 4 x 1.2V if you like or 5 but either way, you'll be achieving the same objective.