raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Quick question on the DRM & 3.2... Let's say I record a bunch of field recordings or whatnot on my RH10 with HiSP... If I upload them via sonicstage, then archive just the imported .OMA files (assuming they are now not DRMed).. Will I be able to pull up those files on any other machine with sonicstage and use the wav converter or preferably HiMD renderer to produce .WAV files?If so, that is great, but sucks at the same time, lol./.. As much space as I have used by uploading and then converting to WAV>FLAC to archive them.. Would be nice to just be able to keep them archived as OMA files and work on them as need be. Without worrying that I will be unable to open them b/c of the DRM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Indeed, those bit rates are history.By the way, could you provide your download link? Chris will update the download section accordingly with all SonicStage 3.2 regional installer. Thanks.←Don't fear NetMD users cause you still have the options of converting the file to LP2 or LP4 when transferring to NetMD. No loss of NetMD functionality that I can see. Just import in WAV and then convert to LP2/LP4 or just use Simpleburner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 SOMEBODY PINCH ME! I MUST BE DREAMING!Thank you, Sony!!!*runs all over the forum making airplane noises, happy as heck!*VRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!Oh man.. I can finally finish my projects without fear of the dreaded transfer errors....W000000000000000000000T! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Quick question on the DRM & 3.2... Let's say I record a bunch of field recordings or whatnot on my RH10 with HiSP... If I upload them via sonicstage, then archive just the imported .OMA files (assuming they are now not DRMed).. Will I be able to pull up those files on any other machine with sonicstage and use the wav converter or preferably HiMD renderer to produce .WAV files?If so, that is great, but sucks at the same time, lol./.. As much space as I have used by uploading and then converting to WAV>FLAC to archive them.. Would be nice to just be able to keep them archived as OMA files and work on them as need be. Without worrying that I will be unable to open them b/c of the DRM..←I just did a simple test with a file that I created on my desktop WITHOUT DRM (Miles Davis "Blue in Green") and then I copied the *oma file to my laptop via my network connection. It played in Windows Media player without even a hiccup of DRM. It wouldn't import to SS 3.1 on my laptop but I will try again once I get SS 3.2 on the laptop. I will also take a few files to work tomorrow and try there. This has a lot of promise for archiving and sharing of music files. Again, a move in the right direction for Sony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupinIV Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 ... and sharing of music files...←This is exacly why we had all this trouble so far.Please keep these comments for yourself!!!I do not believe we want to be back with piracy protection, right!!!!DRM removal is a step forward for those who care about music and not for those who want to take advantage of it. Moderators?Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 This is exacly why we had all this trouble so far.Please keep these comments for yourself!!!I do not believe we want to be back with piracy protection, right!!!!DRM removal is a step forward for those who care about music and not for those who want to take advantage of it. Moderators?Cheers←i'm going to assume he meant sharing files between computers on a local network belonging to the same person, something i have been missing myself from previous versions of sonicstage. apreciate the thought tho lupin.once again though piracy in any form, be it software or high sea is not tollerated in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L7R Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) This has a lot of promise for archiving and sharing of music files.Piracy is a crime, also with SS3.2.Piracy made mp3's popular, though. Music with skips is worse than crackling, popping vinyls or hissing casettes. But people liked free music more than quality... we are only animals....Can you imagine waching movie with blank screen and skipping sound in every 5 minutes? If it would be free, you'll surely like it more than paying 15 bucks of it? Edited July 26, 2005 by L7R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclloyd Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Use Regedit, then locate HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sony Corporation\SonicStage\EMD--> Modfiy Value name: HomeURL accordingly with http://musicstore.connect.com/Let me know if it works.←I installed SS 3.2 from the MDCF downloader, changed the registry value and I could connect to the US Connect just fine. Even able to download a track I had downloaded before. Lookin' good. Time to upgrade my desktop with my music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L7R Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Even able to download a track I had downloaded before. Fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) This is exacly why we had all this trouble so far.Please keep these comments for yourself!!!I do not believe we want to be back with piracy protection, right!!!!DRM removal is a step forward for those who care about music and not for those who want to take advantage of it. Moderators?Cheers←Wait a minute. I was referring to my computer at work, my laptop and my desktop at home and without having to have SS on every computer. The ability to use Winamp or WM to play these files on whatever computer I want is a big deal to me. BTW, I personally own over 600 "legal" CDs. I don't think you were slamming me about caring about music but you almost went there. I do work for a living supporting a family and I also value the work musicians put into their work but I also want to enjoy that music that I paid for whereever and whenever I see fit. Thank you. I feel an edit of that first post would be a bit silly since most of us here do act like thinking adults and can appropriately handle the freedom that we already paid for.Plus, if I recorded something LIVE with one of my Hi-MDs, why wouldn't I feel okay about sharing my own recording with someone else? Without DRM, I wouldn't have to worry about converting just to let me friends at work have a playing copy. I use Hi-MD for Live Recording and not having DRM on my work is what I am most excited about and I do plan on SHARING that when I have the opportunity! Edited July 26, 2005 by mrsoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupinIV Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Wait a minute....←mrsoul,I do apology if I offended you, but the word "sharing" can be misinterpreted.I believe that Kurisu once mentioned that SONY reps do actually cruise this site. I do believe that they are surely interested in our reaction about the DRM removal.That word "sharing" does just not sound right, sorry. Did not mean to abuse you...Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 mrsoul,I do apology if I offended you, but the word "sharing" can be misinterpreted.I believe that Kurisu once mentioned that SONY reps do actually cruise this site. I do believe that they are surely interested in our reaction about the DRM removal.That word "sharing" does just not sound right, sorry. Did not mean to abuse you...Cheers←No problem, I just felt obligated to explain further and SHARE my happiness about the lack of DRM on files I created or captured from LIVE sources. I agree that I found the ability to remove DRM from files imported off a CD to be weird and "loose" considering what we have been forced to deal with in the past versions. DRM on personal recordings = BAD BUSINESS Choice by Sony, DRM on store CDs = Something I have no problem with and something I support (to a point of course).Hope that helps explain my position.Thanks again for the reply and the discussion. Now back to happy times...M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 glad the handbags have been put away now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclloyd Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 The upgrade went smoothly on my desktop computer. Only downside is that it seems the copy protection that exists on all music currently on the computer, including self-recorded content, has "Copy protection: available" as a property of the file. For the self-recorded stuff, that's fine. I can still convert to WAV. At least all future CD's I import will be copy protection free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) I will be running some more tests tomorrow as well on my desktop computer. Mainly I want to see if the OMA files that I've imported to my laptop will be able to be converted to WAV on my desktop computer via either SonicStage 3.2 or HiMDRenderer.. BTW, Can I officially claim the title of being the first person to post to these forums from within SonicStage 3.2 (by modifying the registry to show the forums instead of Connect?) Edited July 26, 2005 by raintheory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 from 3.2? i'd think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 I'm happy to see I will be able to move files between our laptop and desktop here at home. Perhaps that'll convince my brother to get into Hi-MD.Sony, if you are reading this, know that I am most grateful. As I said before, I'm ok with DRM as long as its fair, and what you have done is more than fair: It's the right thing.Kids, remember that with great power comes great responsability. Say no to piracy! (Any music I buy and download comes from Allofmp3.com which is un-DRM anyway.) Let's prove to Sony's media division that we are not potential pirates, but enthusiast hobbyists, professionals and loyal users of a great product made even better by this radical change.Me is a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Just a note. I just tried to re-upload a disc I had previously uploaded with SS 3.1. It will not allow it, saying that the files originated from another computer. Oh well. No big deal. I have the files on my system, as WMA lossless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) Hmm... am I the first person to lose a file to SS3.2?? I recorded two short test files through optical in - the first one in wave format, the second in Hi-SP. I didn't play back the first one or particularly notice whether it was there on the MD display, but when I connected the recorder to SS3.2, the first one certainly wasn't there then.There could be other explanations as I didn't verify what the state of things was before connecting the recorder to the computer, but I'm just flagging this up in case anyone else comes across anything similar.(And yes, DRM does still apply to optical recordings - Marc, here I come). Edited July 26, 2005 by ozpeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeanosMagicHat Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 The upgrade went smoothly on my desktop computer. Only downside is that it seems the copy protection that exists on all music currently on the computer, including self-recorded content, has "Copy protection: available" as a property of the file. For the self-recorded stuff, that's fine. I can still convert to WAV. At least all future CD's I import will be copy protection free. ←Just so I can be sure of what you are saying here. I've already imported 95% of my cd's (a lot) again using the ATRAC format.As these will all have DRM already are we not able to change this within v3.2 and remove this restriction?Also as a secondary question, I was advised on another forum that if you want to upgrade your PC (which I obviously will at some point) then you can transfer your library by simply doing a backup from the old PC and restore onto the new PC through SS backup.Is that correct please as I don't want to be restricted to one PC for the life of the device?Thanks in advance for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breepee2 Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Well, well, well... Sony is seeing the light! Maybe things will be allright after all. One thing left to do : (everyone:) FLAC SUPPORT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Did a test:Recorded a CD in all three Modes my NH700 is able to record in, Tracks 1 to 3 via optical in,Tracks 4 to 6 via optical in via a SCMS-Stripper - hoped, that SonicStage honors the SCMS-Status.Tracks 7 to 9 via LineIn.Result: SCMS doesn't matter, optical recordings cannot be exported.Analog has been directly exported.The same is true for Export to AudioCD, only Analog can be written to AudioCD.And when reading the regulations about copy prevention, this behaviour is in line with these regulations. A word about the soundquality of the new Atrac3Plus-Datarates:48k: Still unusable for Music64k: Same as in 3.196k: Better than 64k, but not that better than 96k would promise.LP2@105k sounds better (less ringing)128k: beats LP2@132k. But it is a matter of taste, 128k sounds rounder, smoother, LP2@132k sounds a bit brighter, but rougher.If Sony puts a bit of work into 128k, it could be a good compromise between sound and playing time.160k: Good quality, well above LP2@132k192k: I had a very hard time to hear a difference to 256k. Looks like my age begins to show... 256k and up: Sorry, but here are my ears at a limit.MP3: Sorry, nothing new here. It still sounds as bad as before.Use LAME or Atrac instead.Conclusion: The new Atrac3Plus datarates should have been included into HiMD from the beginning. The greater flexibility is worth the extra effort.I hope, they appear in the next generation of HiMD-devices.-----------------------------------------------Well, well, well... Sony is seeing the light! Maybe things will be allright after all. One thing left to do : (everyone:) FLAC SUPPORT ←I'm wondering here myself. SonicStage uses Directshow-Filters for WMA-Import.Since tons of different codecs can be used via Directshow by all applications supporting this interface, it is hard to understand, why SonicStage doesn't make all installed codecs available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbhbaritone Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Ok, just read through the whole thread.There was a question at one point that I don't think has been answered and I'd love to know the answer to:1. Does 3.2 overcome the previous difficulties with uploading pre-edited (on the HiMD itself) live recordings??Also2. Noted that 3.2 does now allow multiple attemptes at upload without delating MD original BUT does that apply to tracks you've already tried to upload (and failed)via in 3.1 and when played are marked as "transfered"??Struggling to understand a lot of the technical comment as a beginner so if anyone can answer in v simple terms I'd be v grateful.Thanks for your patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecram1971 Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Anyone know if 128 is heavier (in megabytes) than Lp2 132? The same with 160. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDfreak Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Anyone know if 128 is heavier (in megabytes) than Lp2 132? The same with 160.←128 = 128 kilobit/secthis is less then LP2 132 kilobit/sec (132 is more than 128)and 160 is of course more than 132 so 160 will use the most disc-space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Note to lecram1971: Please click only once on the send button and give the boardsoftware up to three minutes to respond.That way, your posting appears only once instead of four times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecram1971 Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Yes, I think, but, for exmple Atrac+64 is more than the half less as Atrac 132. That´s the question, will you gain in quality and space?Quality, I understand, depends of everyone, but space is an objective messure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 ...Also2. Noted that 3.2 does now allow multiple attemptes at upload without delating MD original BUT does that apply to tracks you've already tried to upload (and failed)via in 3.1 and when played are marked as "transfered"??Struggling to understand a lot of the technical comment as a beginner so if anyone can answer in v simple terms I'd be v grateful.Thanks for your patience!←I'm pretty sure that tracks which were already uploaded prior to installing SS 3.2 would have the DRM information already written to the HiMD itself, so it would not allow additional uploads. I will test this out this evening if noone else has tried and let you guys know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Did a short test:-Imported a track to SonicStage 3.2 on my laptop last night.. (HiSP, through Mic)-Copied the resulting .OMA file to my Jumpdrive.-Imported the .OMA file to SonicStage 3.2 on my work computer.Result: Cannot transfer the imported OMA file to HiMD... Cannot convert to WAV using SonicStage or HiMDRenderer...Conclusion: DRM information is still written to uploaded files on the computer, but not on the HiMD Device itself. Note: This test was for moving the resulting .OMA file after uploading to a computer. This was not a test to see if files could be uploaded to more than one computer.. I'll be doing that test next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalo Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Did a short test:-Imported a track to SonicStage 3.2 on my laptop last night.. (HiSP, through Mic)-Copied the resulting .OMA file to my Jumpdrive.-Imported the .OMA file to SonicStage 3.2 on my work computer.Result: Cannot transfer the imported OMA file to HiMD... Cannot convert to WAV using SonicStage or HiMDRenderer...Conclusion: DRM information is still written to uploaded files on the computer, but not on the HiMD Device itself. Note: This test was for moving the resulting .OMA file after uploading to a computer. This was not a test to see if files could be uploaded to more than one computer.. I'll be doing that test next...←What's the point in updating then? If these restrictions still exist then as far as i'm concerned these's nothing new about this version of sonicstage. Might aswell stay with my 3.1 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupinIV Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 What's the point in updating then? If these restrictions still exist then as far as i'm concerned these's nothing new about this version of sonicstage. Might aswell stay with my 3.1 now ←Well, you can upload as long as you wish, which also means you can upload to a different PC without having to go through WAV. And you can always use the HIMD renderer....I believe this is a great improvement.You also can de-DRM your CD library which allows you to move easely you music over your different storage without the previous complications. In theory you could forget about mp3 and live with atrac3+.Not exacly what 3.1 let you do....Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Did a short test:But, you can still play that *.oma file on the other computer with Winamp or Windows Media. I get an error when I try to do that with CD imported files from 3.1, not on 3.2. Haven't tried the upload yet because I can't get SS 3.2 to accept my uploads. It reads and plays the line in tracks but it does not upload. Gonna try on my laptop with 3.1. Something is smelling fishy about 3.2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 But, you can still play that *.oma file on the other computer with Winamp or Windows Media. I get an error when I try to do that with CD imported files from 3.1, not on 3.2. Haven't tried the upload yet because I can't get SS 3.2 to accept my uploads. It reads and plays the line in tracks but it does not upload. Gonna try on my laptop with 3.1. Something is smelling fishy about 3.2... ←I'm trying that this very moment... However I am trying this with tracks recorded via microphoone, not with CD imported tracks.. I'll post my results.. Installing 3.2 on my desktop computer at the moment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 I'm trying that this very moment... However I am trying this with tracks recorded via microphoone, not with CD imported tracks.. I'll post my results.. Installing 3.2 on my desktop computer at the moment..←Something is wrong with my uploads. I can upload using 3.1 on my laptop but when I try on 3.2 on the desktop, no dice. I can download to the Hi-MD and I can even transfer that track back (the DRM rights) to My Library but it won't take the uploads. Anybody have any suggestions? If I do a reinstall do you think it will make any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Yes, I think, but, for exmple Atrac+64 is more than the half less as Atrac 132. That´s the question, will you gain in quality and space?Quality, I understand, depends of everyone, but space is an objective messure.←I can confirm this, read my previous post.Track uploaded already on SS 3.1, try to reupload it on SS 3.2= No go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 Did a couple more tests,My conclusion (confusion): Need to do more tests... Conflicting results...Will update soon with info...Good news so far - No problems uploading from original HiMD disc to multiple computers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 26, 2005 Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) Good news so far - No problems uploading from original HiMD disc to multiple computers←And it appears that this may be the only good news...Unable to playback or transfer the resulting OMA files from uploads on other computers. SonicStage states "cannot play back this track, do you want to connect to the internet to download a license?" (yes please sony, I'd like to download the license to play my own material. ) and that there is "invalid rights management information"... Oh well... Although the uploaded (OMA) files seem to still contain DRM... It appears that the tracks on the HiMD discs themselves aren't DRMed after uploading.I think this may be an attempt for sony to sell more HiMD discs since now there is actually somewhat of a reason to keep the recordings on them.One question though... Why in the world would they give you the option to add/remove copy protection when importing CDs, but not when uploading from HiMD?!?! Edited July 26, 2005 by raintheory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Because people might make a bootleg recording of a concert, and upload it and share it for free. While a CD you bought has already sent some of that price to the artist. That's what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 (edited) Well, I just Imported a track from a CD... Without copy protection. I was able to take the resulting OMA file to another computer and play/transfer the file with ease. So let me get this straight (still hard to comprehend)... Sony made copy protection optional for importing from audio cd's (which are most likely copyrighted to begin with), yet still makes copy protection mandatory on self recordings...SONY, I think you've misunderstood... I think we were actually asking for the rights to our own music not necessarily everybody elses. (thanks though)Basically what this means (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that we now have the ability to rip CDs to ATRAC, distribute those files however we like (DRM free, since the OMA files are playable/transferrable on any computer), but yet we are not free to import our own recordings and distribute those OMA files DRM free if we desire.I'm convinced that SONY has a bizarre marketing tactic that involves confusing the crap out of it's customers. Edited July 27, 2005 by raintheory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Something is wrong with my uploads. I can upload using 3.1 on my laptop but when I try on 3.2 on the desktop, no dice. I can download to the Hi-MD and I can even transfer that track back (the DRM rights) to My Library but it won't take the uploads. Anybody have any suggestions? If I do a reinstall do you think it will make any difference?←Took a complete reinstall to get the upload to work. Was about time to clean out the Hi-MD junk library. I tried the backup tool but I got an error on the restore and it wouldn't repeat. I can still get my Connect files no problem. Oh well, I gain a few Gig of extra space and had all the live shows archived in FLAC on DVD or other Hard Drive. It was a weird error: it would start the transfer process and then go straight to 100%. I was hoping for faster uploads but that was ridiculous Well, it's working now and I have a clean library. Still like where we are going even if it is baby steps, baby steps, baby steps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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