tmsnyder Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Is it true that for field recording, if you use an external A/D converter and feed a portable Sony HiMD recorder a digital optical-in signal and record it as a .wav file that you can't get your recording off the disc?Is there any brand or model of HiMD that allows you to record uncompressed digital-in and recover the files?For instance, let's say I wanted to tape a band and I had some microphones and a box like a modified eridol UA-5 that powered the mics, provided the gain, performed the A/D and outputs a 16 bit, 44.1k digital audio signal. What portable HiMD recorder could I use to tape this as a .wav and later transfer by USB or firewire to a pc with no loss of quality? Do any of them do this?Sorry if this is answered somewhere else, but my searches didn't turn this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebastianbf Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 You can record in wav with mic imput and then transfer it to pc with all HiMd models (except those without mic input, obviously). If you record with optical input , you can transfer the record to the pc , but you can't convert it to wav using sonicstage. But (here's the good thing), you can convert the file to wav using marcnet's program , available in the download section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Hi-MDRenderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmsnyder Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 You can record in wav with mic imput and then transfer it to pc with all HiMd models (except those without mic input, obviously). If you record with optical input , you can transfer the record to the pc , but you can't convert it to wav using sonicstage. But (here's the good thing), you can convert the file to wav using marcnet's program , available in the download section.←I don't care about the mic input, that's analog-in recording. I was asking about digital-in recording. You're saying you can record a dig-in signal and then can transfer the recorded lossless format to a pc, then get it off as a .wav? Is the entire process lossless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommypeters Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Yes, you can't do it only using Sony's programs but with Hi-MDRenderer you can take the 16/44.1 PCM you recorded through optical in and convert it to WAV, FLAC or other lossless formats. And it goes through no lossy format "in-between". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmsnyder Posted August 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Yes, you can't do it only using Sony's programs but with Hi-MDRenderer you can take the 16/44.1 PCM you recorded through optical in and convert it to WAV, FLAC or other lossless formats. And it goes through no lossy format "in-between".←Wow, cool. Thanks Tommypeters! How much extra work is it to render the file to .wav? Also, is the transfer bit perfect? Looking at the website for HiMDRenderer it doesn't appear to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silence Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Is it true that for field recording, if you use an external A/D converter and feed a portable Sony HiMD recorder a digital optical-in signal and record it as a .wav file that you can't get your recording off the disc?Is there any brand or model of HiMD that allows you to record uncompressed digital-in and recover the files?For instance, let's say I wanted to tape a band and I had some microphones and a box like a modified eridol UA-5 that powered the mics, provided the gain, performed the A/D and outputs a 16 bit, 44.1k digital audio signal. What portable HiMD recorder could I use to tape this as a .wav and later transfer by USB or firewire to a pc with no loss of quality? Do any of them do this?Sorry if this is answered somewhere else, but my searches didn't turn this up.←I use a Deneke AD20 and connect it to my Sony MZ-NHF800 Hi MD recorder and I have made some amazing PCM recording with it. This month I'll have a comercial release CD of a group called Vivid Curved and I used the above setup for the live and studio recording.It works very well. I've done test and I find that the Denecke is more transparent than the Mod UA-5. YMMV -cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcnet Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Its not 100% bit perfect, no. But its very close.The dlls used for the conversion dont allow more than 1 minute to be converted at a time. I get around this by converting in blocks of 1 minute. This, unfortunatly, creates small repeated sections in the resultant audio file. I use various algorithms to seek and remove the repeated bits. This last part may make the output file slightly different to the originalThere is no re-encoding / resamping / etc done in my software.Give it a go, its free! If the result dosnt work out then there's no loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicillo Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 Its not 100% bit perfect, no. But its very close.←C'mon, Marc! It's excellent. I've used it and it really works. Now We just need the software to get rid of Sonicstage. I'd love it! Anyway. USE IT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMBUSTERS Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 for all intensive purposes it is lossless throughout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebastianbf Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Marcnet's program is perfect and very fast. Not a single bug that i've found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Given that repeated samples can be found in SonicStage transfers and wave conversions derived from analog recordings (at points where auto track marks have been inserted), then it's possible that marcnet's conversions may be more bit-perfect than Sony's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmsnyder Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Its not 100% bit perfect, no. But its very close.The dlls used for the conversion dont allow more than 1 minute to be converted at a time. I get around this by converting in blocks of 1 minute. This, unfortunatly, creates small repeated sections in the resultant audio file. I use various algorithms to seek and remove the repeated bits. This last part may make the output file slightly different to the originalThere is no re-encoding / resamping / etc done in my software.Give it a go, its free! If the result dosnt work out then there's no loss.←That answers all my questions. If it's all right with you I'm going to copy this over to www.taperssection.com. It sounds like you've made digital-in recording on the HiMD a real decent option for tapers running external A/D. Not bit perfect, but very very close.Can you give examples of how the output file might be slightly different than the original? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcnet Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 That answers all my questions. If it's all right with you I'm going to copy this over to www.taperssection.com. It sounds like you've made digital-in recording on the HiMD a real decent option for tapers running external A/D. Not bit perfect, but very very close.Can you give examples of how the output file might be slightly different than the original?←Sure, stick a copy on your webiste. Ive no problem with that. Just make sure you still provide a link to my site.. I may be updating HIMDRenderer very soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmsnyder Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Sure, stick a copy on your webiste. Ive no problem with that. Just make sure you still provide a link to my site.. I may be updating HIMDRenderer very soon....←Definitely, it's not my website though, just a member. I just feel that you've done great work and it might be a nice option for tapers over on that website. I've posted your website there a couple times now. Can you tell me an example of how it might not be bit perfect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrose312 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hello,I tried using HIMDRENDERER for the first time yesterday and it didn't work for me. After I uploaded a 20 minute PCM linear recording to Sonic Stage, I chose the Wav option in HIMDRENDERER and when I hit "Go Render" I got and error message that said that the program will have to be closed. Could it be that the file was too big? Should I try adding track marks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcnet Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) Hello,I tried using HIMDRENDERER for the first time yesterday and it didn't work for me. After I uploaded a 20 minute PCM linear recording to Sonic Stage, I chose the Wav option in HIMDRENDERER and when I hit "Go Render" I got and error message that said that the program will have to be closed. Could it be that the file was too big? Should I try adding track marks?What version?, and if its 0.50 then there is a bug with processing the tag names in OMA files that causes a crash if it encounters an empty Artist, Track name or album title field. Fixed version of 0.50 coming V. soon Edited October 28, 2005 by marcnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrose312 Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 ...that's probably it! I just named everything and will try again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrose312 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Marc - First off, I am amazed out how well your conversion tool works! I was a bit skeptical to use it but I was wrong! Secondly, the program was so easy to use and worked so well that it prompted me to ask the question: how did you do it? Or rather, was it difficult? Did you spend years developing this or are you simply a technical genius and this is something that was generated without much struggle. I ask because when you consider how Sony's protective tactics have plagued MD enthusiasts for years, it seems to me that HIMDRENDERER is quite possibly the most under-rated technical innovation since, well, the minidisc itself. This is something that CNET should be covering. Am I just being overly-dramatic, or is HIMDRENDERE a major breakthrough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcnet Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Marc - First off, I am amazed out how well your conversion tool works! I was a bit skeptical to use it but I was wrong! Secondly, the program was so easy to use and worked so well that it prompted me to ask the question: how did you do it? Or rather, was it difficult? Did you spend years developing this or are you simply a technical genius and this is something that was generated without much struggle. I ask because when you consider how Sony's protective tactics have plagued MD enthusiasts for years, it seems to me that HIMDRENDERER is quite possibly the most under-rated technical innovation since, well, the minidisc itself. This is something that CNET should be covering. Am I just being overly-dramatic, or is HIMDRENDERE a major breakthrough?It works by using DirectShow to "play" the OMA/OMG files directly into a .wav file instead of out via your soundcard (actually, it does both - but thats a technicallity)There is a limitation implemented by sony that "playing" faster than real-time works for only a minute of audio data. So I basically play a block into a .wav file. Stop. Play the next block, and so on. This creates repeated audio on the block borders. These are detected and removed by HIMDRenderer auomagically.Easy really.Thanks for your support Feel free to dontate via paypal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrose312 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 thanks Marc...I just tried to donate but Paypal looks like it might be down because it won't let me get past the "pay" button. I'll try again tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefbeef Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 What's wrong with using the Hi-MD's A/D converter? Is it inferior to the external A/D converters mentioned earlier in the thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 (edited) What's wrong with using the Hi-MD's A/D converter? Is it inferior to the external A/D converters mentioned earlier in the thread?The built-in WAV conversion within SonicStage is only applicable to analogue recordings (i.e. Mic-in, Line-in), and will not work with Digital/Optical recordings. MarCs program will convert those optical recordings.Also MarCs HiMDRenderer will export in alternate formats other than WAV. Edited November 2, 2005 by raintheory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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