Head and lens cleaner for Hi-MD

[Sony_Fan]

I was wondering if Sony makes a head and lens cleaner for the Hi-MD units. I tried using my old cleaner but my RH10 is unable to format it to Hi-MD, therefore it can't record on it which is what's needed to clean the head. I've heard it's necessary to clean the head and lens after a full 1GB recording. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[danielbb90]

I don't think sony do them but Nextex do!

http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product....product=4215000

$4.99 + tax in canada

[Sony_Fan]

Danny, thanks for the info but it doesn't specify whether it's for Hi-MD. Not all cleaners that were made for MD will work on Hi-MD.

[chriswyatt]

Danny, thanks for the info but it doesn't specify whether it's for Hi-MD. Not all cleaners that were made for MD will work on Hi-MD.

Yeah, I wondered that. I bought the official Sony MD lens cleaner but was confused about whether it supported Hi-MD. Surely any MD lens cleaner should work?

[danielbb90]

It works for me! with the MZ-NH1

[Sony_Fan]

It works for me! with the MZ-NH1

Is it a lens cleaner or head cleaner? The cleaner that I have is a head and lense cleaner and it was for my old MD player. I can use it to clean the lens on my RH10 but I can't clean the head because the cleaning disk is not Hi-MD format, and the disk does not allow itself to be formatted to Hi-MD. So what head cleaner will work with all Hi-MD units?

[danielbb90]

both, the lens cleaner isn't formatted it just brushes the lens while the minidisc player is trying to read it.

and the head cleaner will re-format to Hi-MD...

Hope that helps... (its both)

Edited December 31, 2005 by danielbb90

[Sony_Fan]

both, the lens cleaner isn't formatted it just brushes the lens while the minidisc player is trying to read it.

and the head cleaner will re-format to Hi-MD...

Hope that helps... (its both)

Danny, I followed the link that you provided earlier and I don't think that store ships to the U.S. I'm in California and when i tried to register it asked for a Canadian address. I would really like one of those cleaning kits and it's a good price. I don't know if any U.S. stores carry them.

[minidisciskewl]

"if its not broken don't fix it" i have lens, head cleaners but i have never used on my mz rh10 or my mz n10.

You shouldn't have to clean it unless u are having problems with reading discs or recording.

[Sony_Fan]

Minidisciskewl, I understand that. But I would like to have a cleaner ready just in case. Although minidisc recording is digital, it uses a magnetic head. Magnetic heads do need to be cleaned, especially after many recordings.

[danielbb90]

try RedioShack, they used to be the same company untin the canadian branch broke off the american (it was forced to) because it was making more money.. lol odd I know...

But anyway back to the topic...

they might stock similar items...

Edited December 31, 2005 by danielbb90

[e1ghtyf1ve]

I've heard it's necessary to clean the head and lens after a full 1GB recording.

Magnetic heads do need to be cleaned, especially after many recordings.

Chris G, somebody misinformed you pretty drastically. For the record:

If you keep your recorder in a low dust, smoke-free environment, don't toss it down the toilet or into the lake (e.g. get it wet), and don't let someone jam a candy bar into the slot, you should never need to clean the head and lens.

You see, both the lens and the magnetic head never touch the disc, even while recording. If they did, you would need to take the recorder in for service.

If, when playing a known good disc, you notice skipping, you may need to clean the lens only. Only do this as a last resort: Ever so slightly moisten a cotton swab with water, and very gently wipe the lens once or twice. If that doesn't help, you guessed it, take the recorder in for service.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[tekdroid]

You see, both the lens and the magnetic head never touch the disc, even while recording. If they did, you would need to take the recorder in for service.

It's my understanding the magnetic head actually touches the disc.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

It's my understanding the magnetic head actually touches the disc.

Oops, my bad, indeed it does, it touches the special protective layer. However, it does not contact the MO layer itself, and it should never need cleaning. Especially not after only 1 disc! Those cleaners can be very bad for your hardware, by the way. From the FAQ:

FAQ Head Cleaning

Careful hand cleaning of the optical lens when absolutely necessary remains your best bet in avoiding heartbreak. In normal, nonsmoking, reasonable environments cleaning is simply not needed. For example, our old MZ-R50 (used outdoors and indoors) still works perfectly. The lens and head have never been cleaned.

Cheers

Edited January 1, 2006 by e1ghtyf1ve

[Sony_Fan]

Oops, my bad, indeed it does, it touches the special protective layer. However, it does not contact the MO layer itself, and it should never need cleaning. Especially not after only 1 disc! Those cleaners can be very bad for your hardware, by the way. From the FAQ:

FAQ Head Cleaning

Careful hand cleaning of the optical lens when absolutely necessary remains your best bet in avoiding heartbreak. In normal, nonsmoking, reasonable environments cleaning is simply not needed. For example, our old MZ-R50 (used outdoors and indoors) still works perfectly. The lens and head have never been cleaned.

Cheers

Eightyfive, let's say the recording head did get dirty for some reason. Would that affect the sound quality of the recording or would it just cause disk errors? I always thought a clean head would record better sound quality than a dirty one. What do you think?

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Eightyfive, let's say the recording head did get dirty for some reason. Would that affect the sound quality of the recording or would it just cause disk errors? I always thought a clean head would record better sound quality than a dirty one. What do you think?

Interesting question... A dirty head might cause errors. I suppose more dirt might cause more errors, until the built-in error compensation algorithms no longer work, causing skips and dropouts in the recording.

So to answer your question, yes, the sound quality would suffer if dropouts and skips occur. Since we are talking about digital recording, gradual signal degradation like with analog systems just won't happen. It's all or nothing.

That said, we've used MD recorders since the 90's, for thousands of hours. The portables and discs are kept in pouches and cases when not in use. In all this time we had one troublesome disc, with skips and dropouts. It turned out to be a speck of dust on the disc, optical side. A puff of air took care of the problem. We don't own an MD cleaner, and probably never will. It's just a marketing ploy.

Cheers

[Sony_Fan]

Interesting question... A dirty head might cause errors. I suppose more dirt might cause more errors, until the built-in error compensation algorithms no longer work, causing skips and dropouts in the recording.

So to answer your question, yes, the sound quality would suffer if dropouts and skips occur. Since we are talking about digital recording, gradual signal degradation like with analog systems just won't happen. It's all or nothing.

That said, we've used MD recorders since the 90's, for thousands of hours. The portables and discs are kept in pouches and cases when not in use. In all this time we had one troublesome disc, with skips and dropouts. It turned out to be a speck of dust on the disc, optical side. A puff of air took care of the problem. We don't own an MD cleaner, and probably never will. It's just a marketing ploy.

Cheers

Thanks for the info. I guess I saw minidisc recording heads like cassette recording heads, where if it was dirty, the sound quality would suffer. But I see that's not the case. If it is just marketing, why would Sony make minidisc cleaners? Since Sony invented the minidisc units, I'm assuming they know what they're talking about when the made the cleaners.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Thanks for the info. I guess I saw minidisc recording heads like cassette recording heads, where if it was dirty, the sound quality would suffer. But I see that's not the case. If it is just marketing, why would Sony make minidisc cleaners? Since Sony invented the minidisc units, I'm assuming they know what they're talking about when the made the cleaners.

Well, selling cleaners means more money to be made. Same with repairs should said cleaners damage the mechanism.

I would stay on the safe side and stick with manual cleaning, and only if all else fails. Unless you are a heavy smoker, don't hold your breath until that happens.

By the way, most cassette deck cleaners, VCR cleaners, etc. are ripoffs. They often do more damage than good. Careful hand cleaning is the way to go. The notable exception are CD lens cleaners for computer CD/DVD drives. All those cooling fans deposit dust and crud on the lenses. Luckily the drives are cheap to replace if they break. Not so with MD. Just keep those discs in the jackets, get a good pouch for the portable, don't get 'em wet and you should be fine.

Cheers

[tommypeters]

So to answer your question, yes, the sound quality would suffer if dropouts and skips occur. Since we are talking about digital recording, gradual signal degradation like with analog systems just won't happen. It's all or nothing.

That's wrong. It's a common misunderstanding that digital means "all-or-nothing", but "gradual signal degradation" is sure possible in the digital world.

Long before skips and dropouts occurr, error correction cicruitry starts to work. It can keep the signal perfect until the errors become too many and/or too complicated, but when that level is reached it doesn't mean a dropout or skip. The circuitry "fills in" information by interpolation between the correct samples.

When information is filled in like this, on a minor scale, you won't really notice it. Often the circuitry "guesses" reasonably correctly, since the chance of the lost sample being between the "real" ones is quite high. But what you will loose is mostly transients and details, especially when the lost sample in fact wasn't in between the correctly read. The sound will be too soft, and somewhat "fuzzy". But not without drop-outs, until the error correction "collapses".

[Toddz]

I have recently cleaned the lens on my mznh-900 and have noticed a dramatic improvement in sound quality,i used cotton bud with Isopropyl alcohol......

regards

toddz

[e1ghtyf1ve]

That's wrong. It's a common misunderstanding that digital means "all-or-nothing", but "gradual signal degradation" is sure possible in the digital world.

Long before skips and dropouts occurr, error correction cicruitry starts to work. It can keep the signal perfect until the errors become too many and/or too complicated, but when that level is reached it doesn't mean a dropout or skip. The circuitry "fills in" information by interpolation between the correct samples.

When information is filled in like this, on a minor scale, you won't really notice it. Often the circuitry "guesses" reasonably correctly, since the chance of the lost sample being between the "real" ones is quite high. But what you will loose is mostly transients and details, especially when the lost sample in fact wasn't in between the correctly read. The sound will be too soft, and somewhat "fuzzy". But not without drop-outs, until the error correction "collapses".

I was oversimplifying for my intended audience. Of course gradual signal degradation occurs in the digital domain (jitter, for example), but we're not discussing that in this particular case. With CDs, some, mind you not all, players attempt interpolation as a last resort if the damage on the disc is too great. Error correction takes care of lesser problems. You are correct in this instance. However on MDs, my experience is that a speck of dust of a certain size will cause it to skip (or drop out depending on your definition) when error correction is not sufficient. No interpolation is attempted like on some audio CD players. This is what I was talking about. But it's extremely rare if sufficient care in cleanliness is taken and the disc or recorder is not defective.

The bottom line is once data is sent via USB while recording on HiMD, the results are bit accurate when read back (i.e. no interpolation), whether the lens or head is "cleaned" or not. In this instance, it's all or nothing, unlike, say, cassette. This must mean that the perception of better sound is purely psychological.

So clean the lenses if it makes you feel better. All I've been suggesting is that you not take the risk in damaging your hardware, and that's all I have to say. Read the FAQ on cleaning here for more information.

Cheers

[tommypeters]

Different from the audio CD, we modified the interleave sequences slightly into a pattern suitable for keeping the interpolation between each audio sampling sequences to a continuous data sequence. We called it ACIRC (Advanced Cross Interleave Reed-Solomon Code). In case an uncorrectable error occurs during readout of the data from the MD disc, this modification helps to minimize the lack of the CD-ROM sync header.

http://www.minidisc.org/ieee_paper.html