My 3-year-old MD recorder - a has-been already?

[kopfhorer]

I own a Sharp MD-MT 200 which has had very light use over the last 3-odd years. Last week it malfunctioned during a live recording. It flashed the message "DEFECT" several times with not one but two Memorex blank MD's. It could indicate bad discs (I've never had a problem with Memorex before but there's a first time for everything, right?). I was also informed that my recorder could be due for its final trip to the landfill.

Damn, but I hate the digital media industry! Whatever disease Microsoft has, the whole damn electronics industry has apparently caught it! In the dark days of analogue, equipment was made to last. You didn't need to REPLACE gear, instead you UPGRADED to the next, higher, posher model. At least that's the way the business went not that long ago. Fast-forward to a month ago. One camera company just sent me a new digital camera after I bitched like hell to them for weeks about their old one tanking after only 2 years use and FIVE UNSUCCESSFUL REPAIR TRIPS (including an official recall for a defective CCD which caused the camera to BLANK OUT WITHOUT WARNING)! I have film cameras, which I still use, which date from the 1970's. I have hi-fi analogue cassette decks from the early to mid 1980's which still perform quite well. I recently bought a 30-year-old Pioneer stereo receiver for a friend for $10.00 at a thrift shop which blows away just about anything at Best Buy!

I just don't relate to the Brave New World of paying gobs of money for a piece of gear only to have to pay even more gobs of money for a new one a couple of years down the road ("It is better to end than to mend. The more stitches, the less riches.") because no one builds anything to last anymore ("Oh, it's just going to go obsolete anyway!") and it doesn't pay to fix it ("Oh, it's obsolete. Go buy a new one!"). If MD recorders cost $50.00, I might not object, but $200.00 every couple years or so just to be able to keep on doing what I now do is a serious rip-off! If THIS is the Great Digital Future, then I'm going to go out and buy an old Nagra reel-to-reel. Yes, it's "obsolete", but at least it'll be around for a while.

[rayzray]

that's why half my studio is "Old Gear" and the other cheap digital.

and, when you buy your Nagra reel-to-reel, i have about 20 reel-2-reel tapes; deal? or, no reel.

in reality; i understand your concern; and good luck in the reel world.

Edited April 11, 2006 by rayzray

[jaylen]

Some members have said that the cheapy Memorex discs should be avoided and I've had terrible skipping problems with them myself, but eh, this topic is subjective.

Sorry that your experiences with your camera and Sharp are leading you away from MD. But, that's the nice thing - you do have options other than MD for music and recording. Remember to count to 10 and take a few breaths. Good luck with whatever you go with next.

[mercury_in_flames]

I aggree with you, i took my sony micro system which was RRP worth 285 pounds back and forth to a repair centre ('sony authorised repair place' , not an official sony repair place) FOUR times for a dodgy transistor which kept frying the line out. I then had to take it back a fifth time to get the repair person to fix the front flip panel because he hadnt assembled it properly, i suppose you could say it was the repair persons fault, but if the device hadnt cocked up in the first place, i wouldve been fine. ahh well.

[burns3016]

I own a Sharp MD-MT 200 which has had very light use over the last 3-odd years. Last week it malfunctioned during a live recording. It flashed the message "DEFECT" several times with not one but two Memorex blank MD's. It could indicate bad discs (I've never had a problem with Memorex before but there's a first time for everything, right?). I was also informed that my recorder could be due for its final trip to the landfill.

Damn, but I hate the digital media industry! Whatever disease Microsoft has, the whole damn electronics industry has apparently caught it! In the dark days of analogue, equipment was made to last. You didn't need to REPLACE gear, instead you UPGRADED to the next, higher, posher model. At least that's the way the business went not that long ago. Fast-forward to a month ago. One camera company just sent me a new digital camera after I bitched like hell to them for weeks about their old one tanking after only 2 years use and FIVE UNSUCCESSFUL REPAIR TRIPS (including an official recall for a defective CCD which caused the camera to BLANK OUT WITHOUT WARNING)! I have film cameras, which I still use, which date from the 1970's. I have hi-fi analogue cassette decks from the early to mid 1980's which still perform quite well. I recently bought a 30-year-old Pioneer stereo receiver for a friend for $10.00 at a thrift shop which blows away just about anything at Best Buy!

I just don't relate to the Brave New World of paying gobs of money for a piece of gear only to have to pay even more gobs of money for a new one a couple of years down the road ("It is better to end than to mend. The more stitches, the less riches.") because no one builds anything to last anymore ("Oh, it's just going to go obsolete anyway!") and it doesn't pay to fix it ("Oh, it's obsolete. Go buy a new one!"). If MD recorders cost $50.00, I might not object, but $200.00 every couple years or so just to be able to keep on doing what I now do is a serious rip-off! If THIS is the Great Digital Future, then I'm going to go out and buy an old Nagra reel-to-reel. Yes, it's "obsolete", but at least it'll be around for a while.

It could be that you have had a bit of bad-luck ? I have had my trusty old SONY MZ-R500 for about 5 years now & I have dropped it repeatedly (even on concrete) & it still works!

Also, you must also remember that products are mass-produced today & with that comes all sorts of problems.

ie. this digital revolution is resulting in millions of units being produced on a scale never seen before, and as such, the chance of someone receiving a defective unit has most likely increased.

Edited April 11, 2006 by burns3016

[Ishiyoshi]

You rant has absolutely no place in "Product Reviews/Pictorials." Topic moved.

[ZosoIV]

It just depends on the device sometimes, and that's despite cost or brand name. For example, my old Aiwa AM-F70, which came out in 1998 or 1999, still works as new after all these years (though the battery doesn't hold a charge anymore). On the other hand, I bought an MZ-R500 back in '01 to replace the Aiwa, and it lasted maybe a month - the optical block had a "birth defect." Sure, I've had newer Sony recorders along the way, but guess which one has outlasted all of them? The AM-F70. Go figure!

[MDX-400]

It could be that you have had a bit of bad-luck ? I have had my trusty old SONY MZ-R500 for about 5 years now & I have dropped it repeatedly (even on concrete) & it still works!

Exactly. I was going to say the same thing. It's unfortunate the original poster had those experiences but there's tons of other people with far more favourable experiences than that, as yours above...

I would say that MD units, in general, have indeed decreased in quality to some degree compared to the old skool ones; but prices are way lower for one thing and just because overall build quality seems to have decreased doesn't really mean a given unit won't last years even with moderate-to-high useage.

I've known people with N505s that happened to work for years with constant use (one person until it was stolen, lol), and that unit wasn't any kind of build quality marvel either, LOL...

I think OP just had a bit of bad luck. Unfortunate but to be honest, it's more the exception than the rule.

It just depends on the device sometimes, and that's despite cost or brand name. For example, my old Aiwa AM-F70, which came out in 1998 or 1999, still works as new after all these years (though the battery doesn't hold a charge anymore). On the other hand, I bought an MZ-R500 back in '01 to replace the Aiwa, and it lasted maybe a month - the optical block had a "birth defect." Sure, I've had newer Sony recorders along the way, but guess which one has outlasted all of them? The AM-F70. Go figure!

The F70 was definitely a high build-quality unit. Made in Japan, on par with the R50 really (I think it even uses the same pickup block, either the R50s or the R90s I can't remember now)...

Really a good unit the F70 The battery is actually it's one real flaw, I'd say. Not that the battery was bad--it was quite good and battery life better than Aiwa rated it, but impossible to get a replacement as it's different than nearly every other MD battery out there (only a JVC unit or two used the same one and perhaps another Aiwa); and, then at that the add-on AA case is a huge thing with a *wire* to connect it to the unit, taking 3 AAs, LOL. Not exactly portable at all!

My F70 never sees any use but the last time I used the battery it was doing over the rated play time still so I put it in storage--drained to 1/3rd capacity and put in the fridge...

[ZosoIV]

Actually, you CAN buy the battery for the AM-F70 still, believe it or not! The LIB-902 goes for about $55-$58 online, hardly worth it for me since I don't use MD (the Aiwa included) "portably" anymore.

[MDX-400]

Actually, you CAN buy the battery for the AM-F70 still, believe it or not! The LIB-902 goes for about $55-$58 online, hardly worth it for me since I don't use MD (the Aiwa included) "portably" anymore.

Oh yeah I'm sure that you can still get one--I didn't mean to say that you couldn't get one anymore, just that it isn't either easy/readily available nor cheap in any way.

For example, even those prismatic Li-Ions that Sharp had used for many years on their older units are now widely and cheaply available (albeit as made-in-China, off-branded cells) on eBay as they are actually used in devices other than Sharp MD units. (Strangely enough, those batteries just started to surface as popular on eBay so I guess more recent electronics have started to use the same battery format.)

Even cells that people thought would not be readily available like the Sony LIP-3xxx for the N10/E10 are quite commonly found, new and relatively inexpensive (i.e. not anywhere near Sony's price for the replacement part).

But that battery from the F70, as you said is pretty much only available through Aiwa parts suppliers and the like and at prices like you mentioned. Hardly worth it, not just for you but for anyone really. You can easily buy an entire [newer] machine accessories and all, with lots more features for the same money or cheaper. As good a unit as it was, it would simply be foolish to pay that much money just to replace the F70s battery.

[1kyle]

If you want high quality gear it's STILL available.

However in the digital age lots of gear is still in it's infancy (just look at professional and I mean Professional not those tiny consumer ones Digital cameras). I'm on my 4TH generation (Canon D30==>D60==>1D2==>1Ds2). All these products were state of the art at their introduction but comparing the early D30 with the current 1Ds2 is like comparing an old EastGerman (Pre fall of the Berlin Wall) Trabant with todays top ogf the range Mercedes.

It really doesn't make much sense to engineer stuff to last for 50 years if you know it's only going to be fit for a one way trip to the "Tip" in 2 or 3 years.

Just try logging on to the Internet with dial up and an old Hayes Modem (2400 Baud) or using a 15 year old computer with a really horrible MONO screen.

Once stuff stabilzes out THEN it's worth going upmarket for better quality.

For example we are getting faster and faster broadband - but going from 2 or 3M to 8M will make very little difference for the average user out there.

Same with mobile phones. The technology of these is changing so fast that often last years models are just chucked into the garbage.

Old analog equipment WAS built with quality in mind since the development was mature. There weren't many additions to be made or features to be added so you had to sell the gear based on "Looks", quality etc etc.

As the digital market matures you'll see better quality gear emerge.

It's not all bad news.

A really fast computer with 1 - 2 GB RAM, several hundred GB of disk storage, a Colour printer and LCD screen costs less today than a 128 5 inch Floppy Disk unit by itself did 30 - 35 or so years ago.

Cheers

-K

Edited April 13, 2006 by 1kyle

[kopfhorer]

If you want high quality gear it's STILL available.

However in the digital age lots of gear is still in it's infancy ...

It really doesn't make much sense to engineer stuff to last for 50 years if you know it's only going to be fit for a one way trip to the "Tip" in 2 or 3 years....

Just try logging on to the Internet with dial up and an old Hayes Modem (2400 Baud) or using a 15 year old computer with a really horrible MONO screen.

Once stuff stabilzes out THEN it's worth going upmarket for better quality.

...Old analog equipment WAS built with quality in mind since the development was mature.

As the digital market matures you'll see better quality gear emerge.

It's not all bad news.

(Sigh) 'Spect you're right. IBM's old PC-XT's were built like tanks, but they're not terribly useful in today's world, save for historic value or some extremely menial tasks. (One guy tried shooting one at point-blank range with a 12-gauge shotgun to see how it would hold up. Dented the case a bit). The home-built machine I'm using now cost about 1/20th what the PC-XT would have cost new back in '84, and does a damned sight more.

I guess my main gripe is, I wish they'd quit making things in sweatshop nations like China, which sinks quality and takes jobs away from regular people here. And I wish they'd stop beta-testing stuff on us a la Microsoft, and charging us bucks deluxe for the privelege of being their "guinea pigs". But hey, gotta get the stuff out ahead of the competition, right? Even if it's a total train wreck, like the M-Audio Micro-Track.

Seriously, thanks for being the voice of reason. I actually don't seriously plan to trade a compact, good sounding recording solution for a heavy, bulky machine which you can't even find blank media for easily anymore. Though I do get mighty tempted to do so sometimes...

[kopfhorer]

I aggree with you, i took my sony micro system which was RRP worth 285 pounds back and forth to a repair centre ... (story of repair nightmare snipped)

All my friends who've bought micro systems have had problems with them. Those things show up constantly at thrift shops and garage sales, usually with tanked CD and cassette mechanisms. I respectfully submit that one might be better off buying a vintage stereo system from a garage sale or a good mom-and-pop stereo shop.

What gets me is how they rate the wattage on micro systems. Like, one maker claims 400 watts a channel on one model, but that's at 10% distortion. 10% distortion is AGONY, and I don't suspect that unit could keep up that power level for very long until things got smokin'! Back during the dark days of consumer protection laws in the US of A, a stereo had to be power-rated at total RMS power into an 8 ohm load at its claimed distortion level (which was usually 0.5 per cent give or take a few).

[Ral-Clan]

All my friends who've bought micro systems have had problems with them. Those things show up constantly at thrift shops and garage sales, usually with tanked CD and cassette mechanisms. I respectfully submit that one might be better off buying a vintage stereo system from a garage sale or a good mom-and-pop stereo shop.

I totally agree. Recently I have made up my mind that I'm not going to buy the hype to "keep up with the Joneses" anymore. The electronics companies try to market a culture whereby if you are using some older type of technology, you are an idiot, or a dinosaur, or just un-cool. This is total CRAP. There is no such thing as something being OBSOLETE. If it is still useful in some way to someone, and does the job adequately, then I say use it.

I buy older stereo equipment. I can buy a JAPANESE made, high-build-quality, amplifier at a garage sale for $20 which sounds wonderful and has good quality components. True, sometimes there can be small problems with it due to age, but because these older components were designed to be repairable rather than disposable. I can often open it up and fix the problem (and it's good as new) because these units are modular inside. With a modern piece of electronics, it's made all microscopic on a single board, so if anything fails the whole unit is toast. Plus, with my garage sale stuff, if I cannot fix it, I haven't lost a great deal of money.

I actually ENJOY using older computers too. I recently got my old VIC-20 set up and am having a blast learning about hobby programming, and hoping to get into electronic design. The VIC-20 is a perfect choice because it is a simple enough device to get one's mind wrapped around, yet complex enough to do a hell of a lot in terms of hobby electronics/programming (it's very underestimated).

As for minidisc, I'm sort of happy the I-Pod and Hi-MD has come around. Now I can pick up all those regular MD machines everybody is ditching for really cheap.....yes they may be older technology, but they still sound GREAT and are extremely useful (especially for recording). Plus, if one is broken or stolen, I won't feel as devastated as if I lost my new $400 Hi-MD recorder. I find when I have a brand new, expensive piece of gear (like a portable music device) in my pocket, I am too worried about breaking it or losing it to actually relax and enjoy it!

....and I refuse to feel guilty or "LAME" for using older technology! If it WORKS, use it! And don't buy the hype.

[raintheory]

I've been lucky with my MZ1 which is now about... 13 years old. It has had extended use over the years, and has had it's fair share of spills but still functions perfectly. Then again, it was the first MD recorder, so perhaps it was one that was built to last.

[tekdroid]

I own a Sharp MD-MT 200 which has had very light use over the last 3-odd years. Last week it malfunctioned during a live recording. It flashed the message "DEFECT" several times with not one but two Memorex blank MD's. It could indicate bad discs (I've never had a problem with Memorex before but there's a first time for everything, right?).

Have you tried a different brand of discs?

In the dark days of analogue, equipment was made to last. You didn't need to REPLACE gear, instead you UPGRADED to the next, higher, posher model.

In my experience, older Sony walkmans were generally more unreliable than today's MDs. Tape path needed cleaning, occasional chewed tapes, perhaps the occsional drop-out when playing back, tape slightly out of alignment would cut treble response (and rewinding and fast-forwarding sucked).

Comparing roughly equivalently-priced portable gear to portable gear, of course.

Fast-forward to a month ago. One camera company just sent me a new digital camera after I bitched like hell to them for weeks about their old one tanking after only 2 years use and FIVE UNSUCCESSFUL REPAIR TRIPS (including an official recall for a defective CCD which caused the camera to BLANK OUT WITHOUT WARNING)!

Sony

The CCD problem was a Sony manufacturing problem. Everyone who's anyone in digital cameras was affected, because they sourced their CCDs from Sony, as you probably know by now.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_...0051005/109314/

http://www.imaging-resource.com/badccds.html

I think two bad apples in a row can get anyone cursing at the (apparent lack of) quality in today's gear, but I think many things have improved, too (as well as some going backwards in the name of cost-cutting, no doubt).

Keep MDs dust-free and try replacing Memorex discs with some other brand and see how you go.

Edited April 15, 2006 by tekdroid

[Ral-Clan]

Grrrr.....my 3 year old MZ-R700 (that I paid $300 Canadian for) is starting to get bad headphone jack dropouts, crackle, occassional DISC ERROR messages, and is beginning to make louder motor noises than usual. I too have not abused this unit.

I'm hoping it's fixable, but I totally agree that this sort of stuff should either be priced cheaper if it's only going to last 3 years, or made better if they are going to charge the high prices.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Ral-Clan