Gapless Playback

[laidler]

Hey guys, I some time ago downloaded and installed Sonic Stage 4.2 and only in the last couple days started playing around with making uncompressed WAVs out of a few of my CDs. Though the programs plays the CDs without putting that annoying break in between tracks that lead into each-other, I've noticed the library doesn't offer the same smoothness as playing the CD. While I understand this since it's playing separate WAV files, I must admit I'm a little nervous of blowing a bunch of money on a HI-MD device to find it plays just like an I-Pod. The long and short of it is, do HI-MDs play just like CDs, or am I getting a slight hiccup in between tracks which run into each-other? I'd appreciate any and all comments on the matter. This issue still has me feeling a bit like a headless chicken. Thanks, James.

[Kardon]

If the CD plays seamlessly between two tracks, so will the MD Even through sonicstage.

[culp4684]

You will get gapless playback with MD through Sonicstage as long as you don't go through any conversion. In other words, if you intend to use Hi-SP as a final result on your MD's, you must import your CD's at 256 kbps into My Library. I found this out because I was importing CD's at 352 kbps, figuring the higher bit rate was good because there would be no loss if I decide to go to Hi-Sp or even lower. But those transfers do result in short "gaps" in between songs. Not sure about any quality loss...only your ears can tell the difference.

So if you stick with the same bit rates, or just use standard SP in real time recording, you'll be fine...

[Avrin]

To make SonicStage play WAV files gaplessly:

1. Make sure the "Microsoft PCM Converter" audio codec is not disabled.

2. Install the latest driver for your sound card.

3. Install the latest version of DirectX.

[pata2001]

I must admit I'm a little nervous of blowing a bunch of money on a HI-MD device to find it plays just like an I-Pod.

Well, that's your fault for getting the "I-Pod." My iPod 5G, nano 2G-4G, and Touch can all play gapless MP3 and AAC perfecly fine. The new Sony NWZ DAPs can play WAV gaplessly.

The surest way to achieve gapless on HiMD are to use Atrac, avoid any kind of transcoding, avoid different Atrac bitrates between tracks, and rip straight from the CD at 1 go. Any kind of deviation from those can result in gaps.

[tekdroid]

I'd appreciate any and all comments on the matter.

recording optically real-time (some people use a PS2 for this, myself included) is another option you have for gapless goodness

[laidler]

Lol, thanks for the comments guys. BTW, I don't own an I-Pod and don't plan to. Anyway, my ultimate goal is to just transfer the full quality 1400bit WAV files onto the HI-MD disc in full uncompressed quality. I've already started using SonicStage to copy a bunch of CDs into the uncompressed format. I just wanted to be sure that SonicStage would import those WAV files onto the HI-MD in the original quality and play gaplessly. I assume it's the same as importing directly from a CD since the program makes those freekin' huge sized files. Side note, I'm definitely getting an rh1 or m200 with the USB 2.0 since transferring the wave files between my OLD Gateway and thumbdrive with 1.1 is murder. Yikes. I actually go into the SonicStage file and just copy or cut the files and place them elsewhere since WAV is free to use wherever. I only use that computer now and then for ripping because it has a better Sony drive in it. Anyway, sorry for babbling too much guys. Thanks for the tips.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Laidler

[tekdroid]

...I'm definitely getting an rh1 or m200 with the USB 2.0 since transferring the wave files between my OLD Gateway and thumbdrive with 1.1 is murder.

don't expect miracles with Hi-MD, regardless of "usb 2.0" rating. The mechanisms are still relatively slow. ie. prepare to be disappointed.

[rosjos]

I just wanted to be sure that SonicStage would import those WAV files onto the HI-MD in the original quality and play gaplessly. I assume it's the same as importing directly from a CD since the program makes those freekin' huge sized files.

This needs some clarification...you cannot transfer .wav files to your HiMD unit using SonicStage - the software will convert the wav file to a compressed ATRAC file during transfer (the size / sound quality of the Atrac file will be dependant on your transfer settings).

You can use Simple Burner software on your computer to transfer in full LinearPCM quality to you HiMD, otherwise it is down to realtime recording from CD or other source.

Don't let the comments about transfer speed put you off getting a HiMD unit - itis not that slow, and the results are well worth it, whatever recording method you use.

Edited November 7, 2008 by rosjos

[Strungup]

PCM to RH1 , is what the RH1 design spec IS

Who told you cannot ???? do your homework .

On a Mac as well PCM to Hi MD direct transfer .

In Fact you only get TWO options MP3 direct or PCM direct , on a Mac you cannot transfer Atrac to the MD

Atrac gets imported as WAV , regardless as to it being LP or SP , in comes in as WAV

[laidler]

So how do I enable the Microsoft PCM Encoder thingy? Yes I said thingy. Don't throw a bunch of computer techno-babble at me and expect me to make total sense of it. Though I'm not a complete moron I'm not a Geek Squad employee either. If I were I wouldn't have this problem, lol I've searched for the blasted thing and have come up with zero. So could someone please tell me in simple enough terms how to get my wave albums to play with no gaps if it's at all possible. Thanks guys.

[pata2001]

Side note, I'm definitely getting an rh1 or m200 with the USB 2.0 since transferring the wave files between my OLD Gateway and thumbdrive with 1.1 is murder.

If you think the speed transfer of a USB 1.1 thumbdrive is murder, then the transfer speed of HiMD would be a massacre. HiMD transfer speed is not even at full USB1.1 speed. Although the RH1 seems to have faster transfer speed than older HiMD units, it is still slower than USB1.1. Good luck spending your time waiting for those big WAV files to be transferred. I'd rather spend my time to actually listen to my music, not waiting for them to be transferred. Using uncompressed PCM is a waste of space, time, and battery life for little benefit of sound quality. Using HiSP would give you smaller file size and better battery life with good sound quality.

The remaining need of clarification is whether HiMD units can play PCM/WAV gaplessly.

Funny how people are still trying to figure out gapless playback, while there are obvious alternatives that can do gapless playback perfectly fine. Sony NWZ-A/S series can play WAV files gaplessly, and they are smaller, less expensive, drag-n-drop, no Sonicstage, and have better battery life than the RH1.

Don't let the comments about transfer speed put you off getting a HiMD unit - itis not that slow, and the results are well worth it, whatever recording method you use.

It IS that slow, not even the max speed of USB1.1.

Edited November 9, 2008 by pata2001

[laidler]

Enough about the transfer speed, we've moved past that one. I don't care that it'll take forever to transfer a bunch of WAV files to an RH1 using a 2.0 computer. Or about the Battery life. I'm now concerned about playing the files in my computer with no gaps if it's at all possible. People keep going on about Microsoft PCM Converter and the latest Direct X, and enabling stuff without telling me how to do it. Could someone please give me a straightforward answer? BTW, stop pushing other players already. I want a HI-MD unit darn it and I'm going to get one, lol. Why are you even here in a minidisc forum if you're going to go on about other machines?

[tekdroid]

Funny how people are still trying to figure out gapless playback, while there are obvious alternatives that can do gapless playback perfectly fine. Sony NWZ-A/S series can play WAV files gaplessly, and they are smaller, less expensive, drag-n-drop, no Sonicstage, and have better battery life than the RH1.

There are (many) reasons to stick with Hi-MD besides the gaplessness, but your point stands that if that's all that brings someone to Hi-MD (MD), then there definitely are alternatives.

[laidler]

There are (many) reasons to stick with Hi-MD besides the gaplessness, but your point stands that if that's all that brings someone to Hi-MD (MD), then there definitely are alternatives.

Ugh, I give up. I'll just deal with slight gaps in my music on the computer. I know now HI-MD plays with no gaps, so that isn't an issue anymore. I only wanted to know if I could get my PC to play the files in whatever program with no gaps, but getting answers is like getting an error notice from the PC and not know what exactly I should do to fix it. If I'm supposed to enable something, don't just tell me what it is, tell me how it's done please.

[tekdroid]

I'm now concerned about playing the files in my computer with no gaps if it's at all possible

PCM converter? I dunno what that is.

You have wavs? In the dark past I have tried playing back with SonicStage, but that was really more as a try-out. Can't remember what it does.

I use foobar2000; it can definitely play gaplessly.

Ugh, I give up.

PS. Your response wasn't even posted when I initially clicked to answer pata2000. Calm down.

[laidler]

Thanks for dropping the program name. Anyway, SonicStage makes the 1411kbps WAVs and plays them rather well actually. So does Windows Media Player which I like because of the visualizations (sad, I know), the funny thing with Media Player which SonicStage doesn't do is if there are more than one WAV in the list there's this odd minor hiccup very near the end of each track as though the program's going 'crap, it's nearly the end, gotta get ready for the next file.' I even tried putting the tracks into the media library. Still no joy. Very odd, but until I Try out foobar or whatever else I end up with I'll just deal with Sony's program. So what's a good website to get foobar200 from anyway? Cnet's site seems rife with viruses. Thanks for your comments guys.

[tekdroid]

So what's a good website to get foobar200 from anyway? Cnet's site seems rife with viruses. Thanks for your comments guys.

foobar2000 can be downloaded from www.foobar2000.org

It's one of those 'very powerful if you spend a little time with' apps, so it may be a shock to the system, but really, it isn't half as bad as I make it sound. Good luck.

[nundra]

Hi..you think you're not nerdy enuf 2 understand all the tecnical jargon..well, i'm the ultimate ...it all sounds like Swahili 2 me..but i'm hoping that will change...i've just put money down on an RH1, and can't wait to start playing with it! Can someone please tell me what all the different music file types/play/record modes are?

Eg, WAV, PCM LP, SP, Hi-SP (?), ATRAC, ATRAC3 etc...etc.... From what i can gather, pcm is highest uncompressed quality?..but really, i'm in the dark! Totally i the dark..only vague concepts (eg, Atrac is compressed?)...but don't even know the difference between what these thigs refer to, ie which ones are a file type, which ones are a recording mode....

Thanks, i'm sure one of u wonderful MD nerds can explain it 2 me!\

Cheers!

[tekdroid]

Can someone please tell me what all the different music file types/play/record modes are?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-MD