High-end MD deck weirdness

[bluecrab]

I recently acquired the Sony MDS-JA20ES MD deck off Ebay. It's a nice machine and sounds almost as good as the MDS-JA333ES. Both of these units, though, exhibit some odd behavior when I try to erase a disc. What happens is that I get the "TOC Writing" message flashing and flashing and flashing - like it's in a loop or like the machine isn't able to finish the task. IIRC, the discs I am trying to erase were recorded on an MXD-D400 or possibly an MXD-D40. Seems unusual to me that the JA20ES and JA333ES would behave this way.

What I have to do to get out of this is to pull the plug, since no buttons on the front panel or remote will have any effect in the "TOC Writing" context. The JA333eS may require further fiddlin' around when plugged back in, but the JA20ES acted like all was well.

The good news, sort of, is that I got both if these units for playback, not so much recording, so as long as they continue to play back all right, I will continue to use the MXD-D400, D40, and if needed JB940 for recording and for erasing MDs. It is a minor annoyance to not be able to erase MDs on the high-enders or to forgo using them for recording, but they do sound sweet!

I was just wondering if anyone had experienced anything similar.

[sfbp]

sounds like they each need a laser power adjust. It's possible the overwrite head is gone but I doubt it as you would be complaining that all attempts to record end in blank disk even when you started out with a partially full one.

[bluecrab]

sounds like they each need a laser power adjust. It's possible the overwrite head is gone but I doubt it as you would be complaining that all attempts to record end in blank disk even when you started out with a partially full one.

Can that be done in Service Mode (the laser power adjust)? If so, is it something the decks can do themselves or do you need external equipment? Not sure I want to mess with them, but not out of the question.

[sfbp]

You need a meter.

I managed it once because the IOP number from the replacement head had not been entered into the NVRAM. Unless you know it was serviced like that (someone here mentioned something like this), i.e. the guys had replaced the head but not updated the IOP, then the meter is the only sensible way to do it.

Maybe you bought it from that guy who was asking the same question

[bluecrab]

You need a meter.

I managed it once because the IOP number from the replacement head had not been entered into the NVRAM. Unless you know it was serviced like that (someone here mentioned something like this), i.e. the guys had replaced the head but not updated the IOP, then the meter is the only sensible way to do it.

Maybe you bought it from that guy who was asking the same question

No meter. I will leave both decks as they are. I wonder if the same process (replaced the head but not updated the IOP) would have happened to both the JA20ES and JA333ES. Of course, you never know, it could be that way - then again, it could have something to do with the way an MXD-D400 creates a TOC .

[shrug]. Whatever, both these guys sound great. Maybe I will try recording onto an unused MD with the JA20ES and see what happens then.

[sfbp]

I just typed a reply in and then hit a key by accident and it disappeared. Let's do this offline anyway. It's probably worth fixing them because if maladjusted the unit is likely going to outright die much sooner than if corrected.

I have a strange feeling the same exact pair of decks was asked about (he had had some service guys fix them). Will take a bit of time to find the reference.

Stephen

[jim.hoggarth]

What happens is that I get the "TOC Writing" message flashing and flashing and flashing - like it's in a loop or like the machine isn't able to finish the task. IIRC, the discs I am trying to erase were recorded on an MXD-D400 or possibly an MXD-D40. Seems unusual to me that the JA20ES and JA333ES would behave this way.

Hi. Obviously I can't be 100% definite, but I reckon this is the optical pickup. A laser adjust may help, but it's more likely a replacement OP is needed. It don't think it is the overwrite head - you get a different type of error when this is faulty. What is happening here is something like the laser can't focus on the disc to find the right place to write the updated TOC. The firmware won't give up at this point, as writing the TOC is so critical. It just gets stuck in a loop.

I have often wondered why failure to write the TOC is so prevalent. I think it may have something to do with the TOC being at the extreme inside of the disc, as this is where the disc is spun at its fastest rate (data is written at a constant linear velocity). Perhaps this causes any slight maladjustment or out-of-spec component to fail more readily?

Jim

[PhilippeC]

The TOC writing sickness seem to appear frequently.

Pierre has noticed that some of his decks, even in good order last time he packed them, have now a TOC writing problem.

[sfbp]

So far I have only run into one unit that I could not adjust to fix..... touch wood

[bluecrab]

So far I have only run into one unit that I could not adjust to fix..... touch wood

First, I want to thank those who responded. The problems I reported on the JA333ES and JA20ES are for now, not reproducible. This doesn't mean they id not re-occur and are gone and banished forever - although one can hope - but for now....

First, the JA20ES:

I started with a new, unused disc. This MD had never even been in another machine, a condition not true for previous disc or discs I tried (not proof of cause-and-effect, though). I did the usual things: record, erase, eject, etc. and without incident. No "looping" this time of the "TOC Writing" message. Even when I inserted an LP-recorded MD in this non-LP unit, it did not complain and erased and ejected the disc properly and again, with no looping message.

The JA333ES was a different story. Again, I began with a new, unused MD, but the deck would not recognize any Digital In (opt and coax) sources and would not stop flashing "DIN Unlock." Finally I had to unplug it. After that, it still would not recognize any digital sources, but now I could stop "DIN Unlock" just by pressing the front panel's Stop button. At one point the unit acted like it was recording - the time display decremented - but it wasn't actually recording. I checked my digital switcher (a sensitive unit for a passive device) and SCMS stripper. All looked well. Then just like that, the deck was able to record. I ran it through a series of tests, pretty much like what I did with the JA20ES, but more times. No problems. Let it sit for while, tried again. Still good.

I feel like all I can do now is wait and see if things go awry the next time, whenever the next time may be.

Let's face it, no one who knows them will ever accuse MD units of not being flaky! ;-)

Thanks again for your interest and thanks very much to sfbp for the detailed information he sent me offline. I hope this report hasn't cause anyone to fall asleep. ;-)

[spitfire71]

I recently acquired the Sony MDS-JA20ES MD deck off Ebay. It's a nice machine and sounds almost as good as the MDS-JA333ES. Both of these units, though, exhibit some odd behavior when I try to erase a disc. What happens is that I get the "TOC Writing" message flashing and flashing and flashing - like it's in a loop or like the machine isn't able to finish the task. IIRC, the discs I am trying to erase were recorded on an MXD-D400 or possibly an MXD-D40. Seems unusual to me that the JA20ES and JA333ES would behave this way.

I just bought a Sony MDS-JA20ES machine on ebay in "good condition". Another duff purchase & wasted my money yet again!

This is doing the same thing - TOC flashing endlessly, cant get out of it, have to cut power to the unit & turn on again to release a disc. It plays fine though. I'm beginning to think that it's too much of a gamble trying to find a reliable machine in good condition that ACTUALLY WORKS on ebay!

[sfbp]

Speak to Jim Hoggarth.. Jim'll Fix It

[bluecrab]

I just bought a Sony MDS-JA20ES machine on ebay in "good condition". Another duff purchase & wasted my money yet again!

This is doing the same thing - TOC flashing endlessly, cant get out of it, have to cut power to the unit & turn on again to release a disc. It plays fine though. I'm beginning to think that it's too much of a gamble trying to find a reliable machine in good condition that ACTUALLY WORKS on ebay!

I have to know: Have you tried recording with a completely new, never-recorded-on MD? As I mentioned, once I tried that, the JA20ES seemed to record normally, although I cannot prove that is what made the difference. I am assuming that yours is the UK/EUR model? (Mine is US.) I see that Jim H. offered his thoughts on the matter previously, and his advice should always be taken seriously. But first, if you have a new MD, why not give that a try and see what happens? You've nothing to lose by doing so, really. Of course, you may already have done so.

[spitfire71]

I have to know: Have you tried recording with a completely new, never-recorded-on MD? As I mentioned, once I tried that, the JA20ES seemed to record normally, although I cannot prove that is what made the difference. I am assuming that yours is the UK/EUR model? (Mine is US.) I see that Jim H. offered his thoughts on the matter previously, and his advice should always be taken seriously. But first, if you have a new MD, why not give that a try and see what happens? You've nothing to lose by doing so, really. Of course, you may already have done so.

Yes, I tried two brand new minidiscs, did the same thing to the two of them. Mine is a UK model.

[phamcu]

I just bought a Sony MDS-JA20ES machine on ebay in "good condition". Another duff purchase & wasted my money yet again!

This is doing the same thing - TOC flashing endlessly, cant get out of it, have to cut power to the unit & turn on again to release a disc. It plays fine though. I'm beginning to think that it's too much of a gamble trying to find a reliable machine in good condition that ACTUALLY WORKS on ebay!

Simply put, its lens is damaged as the REC.