NetMD for Windows 8

[777.300]

Hi Guys,

Last week I installed Windows 8 on my PC.

Loading the windows 7 64 Bit drivers for my Net MD MZ-N1 fails. (was working before on win 7)

Using the modified NETMD760 files for it but during / after the driver installation windows is showing that the HASH for the file is not available or corrupted.

In Win 8 it is not possible to force the installation to go on so the driver installation fails.

Has anyone the same problem and has any one a solution to install the Net Md on a Windows 8 machine.

Any tip for the solution is much appreciated because I really need my Net MD to work.

Harald

[sfbp]

Firstly let's split this into a new topic.

Harald, I think you probably have some option in Windows to ignore hashes (or CRCs or signing). I'll do my best to investigate, but now you know what to look for, I think you can do the same

[777.300]

sfbp,

Best advice ever.

Found in this link how to disable signing in Win7. (Win 8 = Win7 with new GUI)

http://www.killertec...gning-windows-7

Performed steps, upgraded driver and NET MD working fine again wit Sonic Stage Ultimatev2.

(after the signing disable windows warns you about Not Signed but as in Win 7 you now can ignore this warning and install the driver)

Thanks for this great advice.

Harald

[777.300]

After performing actions described above to get my NET MD to work I found that my newly installed and officially activated Windows 8 was showing a "Test Mode" watermark in the rh lwr corner.

In the following link you can find the solution to remove that watermark, if necessary:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2509241/en-us

Harald

[Kona702]

This has been driving me crazy as I wanted to use my MZ RH-10 in regular MD mode to record in SP format to play on my minidisc rack unit.

I found an easy solution to this as the link (http://www.killertec...gning-windows-7) That 777.300 using CMD did not work for me as the instructions are for windows 7. The command prompt kept saying access denied for some reason.

I found another way to disable driver signing using the settings for Windows 8 specifically. Here is how I did it:

1. From the Metro Start Screen, (move your mouse to the bottom-right or top-right-corner of the screen and wait for the pop-out bar to appear) click on settings (The Gear icon).
2. Click ‘Change PC Settings’.
3. Click ‘General’.
4. Scroll down, and click ‘Restart now’ under ‘Advanced startup’.
5. Wait a bit.
6. Click ‘Troubleshoot’.
7. Click ‘Advanced Options’
8. Click ‘Startup Settings’
9. Click Restart.

When your computer restarts, select ‘Disable driver signature enforcement‘ from the list. You can now load your Net-MD driver. Reboot again once the driver is installed and all will be well.

In case you don't know how to update the driver: No version since XP will automatically install it, it just shows the Net-MD with a yellow exclamation point next to it in device manager, and SonicStage will not recognize it....here is a nice link explaining how to download the windows 7 driver (which works for windows 8 after doing the steps mentioned above) and get it installed for Net-MD after you have disabled the driver signing.

Viola!!! There you have it, just in case the CMD version that 777.300 had posted doesn't work. (Which it WON'T for Windows 8!)

Thank you so much for getting me on the right track 777.300!!! Couldn't have done this without you!! I was about to give up!!!

Cheers!!!
Sean

[sfbp]

This has been driving me crazy as I wanted to use my MZ RH-10 in regular MD mode to record in SP format to play on my minidisc rack unit.

Huh?

Sorry but if you are trying to use SonicStage to get regular SP quality by downloading from PC over the USB link, you can give up now.

Essentially what you are getting is LP2 dithered (or padded) to SP quality by adding zeroes in the data after it gets to the unit.

ABSOLUTELY the only way you can get real SP recorded onto that unit is to:

a. hack the firmware (which disables MP3 playback) and;

b. record via optical.

There's no point in your case since you already have a deck that can probably do the same thing. The firmware hack is not straightforward, shall I say.

No more comments about being driven crazy; you clearly are already, as are the rest of us. Welcome to our little band of afficionados! Thanks for the data on Windows 8 - I expect I shall need it one of these aeons....

Stephen

[Kona702]

No problem Stephen...hope you will be able to use the info,

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to do. I'm aware of the quality issues. I just meant if I wanted to record with my computer (on the MZ-RH10) and play it back on my minidisc deck, I must have the disc in SP format. My minidisc deck will not play discs recorded in HI-MD mode recorded with the RH-10. As I lost my MZ-N510 that I used to use for this purpose in a house fire, I had to record to my RH10 in SP format for it to play at all on the deck. You can't record optically to the RH10 in regular MD format (SP, LP2, LP4) to make a disc compatible with the deck, only via usb to the unit!!! (Kinda stupid I think, no idea why they wouldn't design it to be able to store optical recordings in regular format). Another dumb Sony nuance I guess!

P.S. Windows 7 has it all over Windows 8. The start menu is GONE on WIndows 8!! :-( The new "start menu" (I use that term loosely) is a bunch of tiles scattered across the screen!!! Seriously..Google: "Windows 8 start menu!"

I actually paid an outside software designer $5 and downloaded a program called Start 8. http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

They made a start menu that can be installed on Windows 8...now it's not so bad. Getting used to it though.

Unless you buy a touch screen computer there is no need for upgrading to 8, hold out as long as you can!

Sean

[Kona702]

Stephen,

And I was just looking at the list of your devices (impressive!), I never knew they made MD car units! How cool!! I definitely HAVE to have one! I wonder if they made a MD/CD combo for the car? I'm definitely going to eBay that sucker right now! Looks like that will be my next purchase to add to my beloved MD collection!

Thanks!

Sean

[sfbp]

1. The point is that IMO you would do better to spend some money on an MDLP deck with optical out. Examples MDS-JE640,JE780,JB980. The MZ-RH10 line seem to have some laser problems too in the long term (I have two RH910's in for repair just now with an identical fault). 640's are not that hard to get hold of.

2. The best way for the car is to get:

a. an MD changer and a CD headunit or

b. a CD changer and an MD headunit.

The only problem with a. is that there's only ONE MDLP-capable changer, the MDX-66XLP

The only problem with b. is that there's very few MDLP capable headunits, and exactly one that has the Type-S reproduction (MDX-CA790X). Mind you the 66XLP is "only" Type-R and sounds good to me. My wife has the 790 and swears by it.

I actually have an ATRAC-CD-, bluetooth-capable headunit (means I can have a small stack of disks with over 100 hours of 256kbps Hi-SP easily in my car), and connected to it by "BUS" changer cord the MD changer, the CD changer (with MP3, not ATRAC, sadly), and an XM satellite radio as well. Lots of scope for fiddling around and having fun with music in your vehicle.

[Azureal]

I love it that we have such a great community here to discuss and share all things MiniDisc!

I also love that we have a nearly constant stream of new members who can contribute and get in on the fun!

kona702 and 777.300 are prime examples, the work you have done to prove that the Vista 64 bit driver can be used on W8 is fantastic and will no doubt show up in many, many Google searches made by frustrated MD users trying to upgrade their operating systems.

And having veteran experts like Stephen to facilitate things makes it all come together rather nicely.

[Kona702]

Azureal,

I'm also glad to have found this site. I thought I was only one of a vast minority that still embraced this format. It's nice to see other people still use minidisc and help each other with issues. Also I was happy to share the instructions for Windows 8. I searched all over the web and found nothing. When I finally figured out the problem I just had to share it so others did not have to go through the frustration that I did, and what better place to do it. I just hope when someone "Googles" their problem they can easily find this post, as it is so simple to fix the problem, but so hard to figure out how to do so.

Thanks for the warm-welcome,

Sean

[Kona702]

Stephen,

My deck is a MDS-JE630 that I bought new in 1999 or 2000...I cant remember.

I did some searching for the models you listed for me that play in MD-LP mode and they seem reasonable, thanks for the suggestion.

Does anyone know if they made a Minidisc deck that will play in HI-MD (HI-SP, HI-LP, or PCM) mode? That would be just magnificent if I could find one out there for a reasonable price, I would snatch it up in a second!

I will never give up on my JE-630 though, it will always be a part of my stereo system! This was the first Minidisc product I ever owned, and I've grown quite attached to it. It is a testament to good engineering. I have never had a single problem with this workhorse (other than the disc sticking once in a while, but it's easy to retrieve, just poke it and move it around a little with a pen or something.)

Oh and one more thing, does anyone also know where to find HI-MD discs for cheaper than the price on eBay? They seem to be really pricy and I only purchased two when I bought my RH-10 (which I absolutely love!!) I use regular MD's for the most part with my RH10 for HI-SP and HI-LP recording, but if I want to record a full album optically in PCM (for lossless recording) I have to constantly use the same two discs, then transfer them as WAV files to the computer, then erase the master! I hate doing this but I cant afford to pay $25++ for a disc. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Sean

[sfbp]

There are no HiMD units of any kind with optical out or USB playback. However your PC hooked via optical (or coax), to an amplifier with S/PDIF-in, is a good substitute.

The closest you can come to a HiMD Deck is the all-in-one Onkyo "bookshelf" model(s).

I have completely given up recording in HiMD-PCM mode. For line recordings I use either an MDLP deck, or a HiMD (NH900) or the (HiMD) Onkyo. For microphone recordings I use one of my Sony flash recorders, either the 8GB ICD-SX950 or the 4 (+16) GB PCM-M10 which for additional peace of mind records in 24-bit PCM.

The only time 24-bits really makes a difference is when I misguess the recording level by setting the mic gain too low. Then it's much more reasonable to amplify up (digitally, with Sound Forge) the resulting PCM. With 16GB flash media for about $20, it seems unnecessary to use HiMD for outside recordings.

The resulting PCM can still be compressed nicely to MP3 or ATRAC.

I have a 630 too, and its one neat feature is the fast AND slow playback which is otherwise only found on much more expensive pro-level decks. Great if you recorded from legacy media which have been recorded at the WRONG SPEED, for whatever reason.

[Kona702]

Thank you for the reply.

1.)

Really? You're kidding!! I cannot fathom why Sony made so so many SP and MDLP decks with a digital out, but not a single HI-MD deck with a digital out. This just blows my mind. Why do you think they did this? I can't think of any audio protection restrictions that would warrant this decision. They really messed up on this one I think.

Thanks' for the tip about the S/PDIF. I do not have a digital coax, or optical out on my laptop like I did on my PC before it got burned up. However your suggestion gave me an idea:

What I'm going to do is hook my RH-10 to my laptop via the USB cable, hook the HDMI output on the laptop to my receiver which accepts HDMI, play the PCM tracks with Sonicstage..and viola!

This should get the PCM recording to my receiver in a purely digital signal with absolutely no loss of quality right?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

2.)

So you would rather record..say..a CD or Vinyl Album on a deck in SP or MDLP then on a unit with HI-MD in PCM?

If I may pick your brain I would like to ask why? I thought the Linear PCM on HI-MD was the highest possible quality you could get? You seem to know much more than me, and most people for that matter about MD, I would consider you an expert. I'm just curious as to why you would choose a lesser quality recording format over PCM? Please enlighten me if I am wrong, is there an advantage that I don't know about?

I think I may have just realized why you probably said that...The only reason I could think of is if you wanted to play it through your main stereo from a deck with optical out, rather than from a portable HI-MD? Is that what you're going for?

Thanks' Again For All Your Help!

Sean

[sfbp]

#1 (your trick for playback) is definitely possible. However HiMD units don't seem to last that well. I do it from time to time, but a PC with SonicStage and thousands of hours of music is simpler and more robust. Sony didn't provide HiMD optical playback because (I think) they figured it was a way of preventing proliferation of digital copies and they could control it. It was always a matter of time before people figured out a way, IMO.

(Off topic a bit - you may run into problems of sound artifacts using HDMI to transmit 44.1kHz S/PDIF. I would recommend a second USB device, effectively an offboard soundcard, to transform the PC's output to optical. Coax may have ground loop problems. These are available for about $15 on Ebay). Better yet is a PC with a "nice" soundcard (plugged into the PCI bus, not USB) that has optical out. I recommend TerraTec's line as producing the least tweaked optical out.

#2 Yes I always record vinyl to SP on my 980 or 630. Always the highest quality. I remember when the first CD's came out that were "conversions" of vinyl. A well known DJ played something from my favourite album and I could tell the difference, his CD was worse than my LP. Minidisc is at least a 20-bit format, inherently a 24-bit format (although S/PDIF is actually "only" 20 bits), and although the early ones may not have used more than 16 bits, once we get past ATRACversion4.5 to Type-R, then they all record at 20 bits or better. However, store this at 16-bits PCM, and you're throwing it (highest quality) away. This is probably the reason that recreating a CD from the resulting recording (at SP) always sounds basically perfect.

Mind you, the extra bits only matter when you come to edit the recording to adjust volume and the like. Rounding errors don't mess up a recording if you have another 4+ bits to "dither in" when you lay down the final PCM. For recording a well-behaved source that requires no real editing other than cutting things out of it, I record in LP2 or HiSP as both of these get transmitted bit-for-bit to the computer (and back again to MD if desired).

I got into this technology in order to save my vinyl collection to CD. I stayed here because it's phenomenally interesting.

[Kona702]

I actually went out today and bought an external sound card, it is a Sabrent USB-SND8. I am quite impressed with the quality and functionality of this device for the mere $19.99 that I paid for it! I would recommend it to anyone who has a laptop, and wants an S/PDIF output to hook up surround sound to a receiver. Now I can record to the MD from any audio source from the computer digitally, and/or hook it up to my receiver via optical out to watch dvd's and blu-rays in 5.1 surround. Thanks for the advice!!

[kkakele]

I wrotte a post weeks ago here about this.I had a problem with a Hi-MD unit, model NH-10, i just couldnt upload tracks recorded on Hi-MD mode to the computer.There wasnt any error message, i just clicked then the orange bar was there for 1 second then nothing.I could fix it for a days opening sonicstage in Windows 7 compatibilty mode but after a days it failed again.

Its too bad but i uninstalled Windows 8 and the uploading problem was a big one reason...

Now i am on Windows 7 and everything is fine.

BTW on Windows 8 everything worked and there wasnt any problem with the drivers, i just couldnt upload files.Of course these files could be uploaded on W7.

[Kona702]

If you decide to re-install windows 8, follow the instructions I posted above...and you should be all set.

[phamcu]

thanks so much

[kkakele]

If you decide to re-install windows 8, follow the instructions I posted above...and you should be all set.

Yes, i finally reinstalled W8 and surprise! i didnt have any problem for now... I can even upload the songs, maybe is just a random thing, i dont know but for now it works.Really thanks for all the instructtions that you wrote here ^^ (sorry for my english, im from spain hehe)

[cwall1108]

I've run into a bit of a snag with the above - that being windows 8 honestly believes my MZ-NH600D's enumerated driver (the generic USB Mass Storage device) is the best and shiniest driver to use. This means when I tell it to search for the device and give it the NETMD760 directory it still is convinced it knows best. Here's what I've done so far..

Run 1:

a) hooked up the MD

devices and printers in control panel

c) right click hi-md, properties

d) hardware tab, click properties

e) driver tab, click driver

f) update driver button is greyed out

Run 2:

a- same, before proceeding, safe eject device in systray

b-d) same

e) click change settings on general tab

f) go to driver tab

g) browse for local driver... from here on out it's like proudofmylife's video EXCEPT...

h) Windows 8 says my current driver is the best one.

Run 3:

As above but with the reboot to the non-signature checking mode. Still fails.

So... it seems that I have a couple of options and I don't know windows well enough to say if this is doable...

1) remove the mass storage driver (seems like a bad move)

2) coax win8 to overlook its recomendation and/or force the netmd drivers in place.

It's worth noting that the devices works with SonicStage like a champ, but ONLY with HiMD format discs. I can't format NetMD/"old" format at all, or see anything on a NetMD disc.

Guesses? Suggestions?

[sfbp]

1. Follow the instructions here (in the first post of the thread):

2. Get rid of ALL traces of the old driver configuration files (the actual .SYS don't matter, it's the .INF which do matter). This will involve searching for .INF files in the WINDOWSINF directory containing "NetMD". They will all be named "oem<nn>.inf", where "<nn>" is a number between 1 and 99 (actually it might go over 100 but I've never checked that out). Delete them. DO NOT delete anything else, or your system will crash.

3. Reboot.

4. Try again to install.

Note that for W8 there may be special tricks to get access to c:windows and therefore c:windowsinf, I am not sure. A combination of grep and cmd.exe may do the trick. I don't have a W8 to try it on.

[cwall1108]

I found a trick. Basically Windows 8 refused on the HiMD. You can't really remove the bulk storage driver - it wants it for other stuff like thumb drives and external hard drives. I found a NetMD unit to connect and that did the trick. I'm left in a state where, if I want to make a NetMD LP2/4 "old school" disc, I have to crack out the MZ-R707 or MZ-NE410. If I want Hi-MD I plug in the MZ-NH600D.

Given that good units are going to be on the down turn from here on out, I guess I can chalk it up as wear-levelling across units. Thank goodness I ebayed a backlog so there's redundancy across the lines

[sfbp]

It's nothing to do with the bulk storage driver.

Your problem has to do with the HiMD unit's desire to switch identities between MD and HiMD. It actually changes USB ID, I think.

However you will never get the NetMD stuff working unless you do away with all the remnants of 32-bit drivers. Unfortunately you appear to have skipped telling us the details (apologies if I missed them!). You need NETMD760.* and no other NetMD driver for NetMD mode. You need NO DRIVERS for HiMD mode at all (other than the Bulk Storage driver as you have correctly identified).

Hope this helps.

PS (afterthought). You might want to do the NetMD install with the Disc Mode of the HiMD Unit set to MD (it's probably HiMD right now). It will switch depending on what disk is in the unit, but if you tried installing with a blank disk or no disk, it's going to look like the default (set by Disc Mode).

[cwall1108]

Belated reply - yes, got the 760 drivers which work like a champ on my growing stockpile of Net MD units. Finally got around to testing what would happen if I put NetMD format into the NH600D and plugged it in. Pretty anticlimactic - the unit froze. I had to pop the battery out to get it back to life. Could be any number of things, including my NH600D has had the most use and abuse (got it new in the store around 2004).

Anyhow, thanks again.

[sfbp]

It should work. Most likely you have to upgrade the driver FOR THAT UNIT. Plug it in and without trying to do anything, do a driver update to 760

[cwall1108]

No luck. With non-HiMD disc inserted the device doesn't even show in the manager. It (the 600D) locks in all cases. I only have an entry to upgrade (and keep my unit from freezing) in cases where a HiMD disc is inserted, in which case the bulk storage driver is in use and windows absolutely refuses to budge. Not a worry - using a my non-himd units works.

[sfbp]

Probably you have to surgically remove all NetMD drivers and start again.

Let us know, it's quite simple if you are of a mildly technical persuasion.

[cwall1108]

At risk of belaboring the thread, I've done all that. The results are the same regardless.

[georgetb]

This has been driving me crazy as I wanted to use my MZ RH-10 in regular MD mode to record in SP format to play on my minidisc rack unit.

 

I found an easy solution to this as the link (http://www.killertec...gning-windows-7) That 777.300 using CMD did not work for me as the instructions are for windows 7. The command prompt kept saying access denied for some reason.

 

I found another way to disable driver signing using the settings for Windows 8 specifically. Here is how I did it:

 

1. From the Metro Start Screen, (move your mouse to the bottom-right or top-right-corner of the screen and wait for the pop-out bar to appear) click on settings (The Gear icon).
2. Click ‘Change PC Settings’.
3. Click ‘General’.
4. Scroll down, and click ‘Restart now’ under ‘Advanced startup’.
5. Wait a bit.
6. Click ‘Troubleshoot’.
7. Click ‘Advanced Options’
8. Click ‘Startup Settings’
9. Click Restart.

When your computer restarts, select ‘Disable driver signature enforcement‘ from the list. You can now load your Net-MD driver. Reboot again once the driver is installed and all will be well.

 

In case you don't know how to update the driver: No version since XP will automatically install it, it just shows the Net-MD with a yellow exclamation point next to it in device manager, and SonicStage will not recognize it....here is a nice link explaining how to download the windows 7 driver (which works for windows 8 after doing the steps mentioned above) and get it installed for Net-MD after you have disabled the driver signing.

<reproduced link now deleted by admin - please be selective in your quotes in future>

Viola!!! There you have it, just in case the CMD version that 777.300 had posted doesn't work. (Which it WON'T for Windows 8!)

 

Thank you so much for getting me on the right track 777.300!!! Couldn't have done this without you!! I was about to give up!!!

 

Cheers!!!
Sean

​This version also works for Win 10, using Aiwa AM-NX9