mimarsinan Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I ordered the MZ-RH1 MiniDisc item but I was advised that the products were shipping from Japan and would therefore work only in Japanese. I have downloaded the product manuals in English, but there do not appear to be any options to change product language. Is it possible to change the language of the device to English from Japanese, or is this unsupported? I would very much like to be able to use the MZ-RH1 unit - so please let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Yes you are right, I don't either such option on my unit. You need to compare the english user"s guide to the japanese one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 That's so unfortunate. There's no way to update the firmware with a different language either, is there? This is a showstopper for my purchase. Nobody would happen to know where to get a brand new English unit, would they? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 I don't search a solution myself in the document but you can - read the service manual : http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/service/sony_MZ-RH1_service_manual.pdf - enter in the service mode of the unit (risky), where the option is probably hidden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Thanks for the link. I had already downloaded the manual, but I did not see it mention anywhere where I could change the language. I probably would not be able to `discover` the language change menu option on the Japanese menu myself. Unless someone knows where it is already? It may not even be in the service menu, for all I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 I absolutely guarantee that the option for English menus will be there on the real unit. It is, on every other unit I have ordered that started out life in Japanese. My RH1 came from USA (Canada actually) but the Japanese units should all have the option. You can probably work it out, most people who've bought units from Japan (not specifically the RH1, but for instance the RH10) seem to have managed to do so without breaking a sweat. And the ENGLISH manual I am sure doesn't mention change of language. If you are getting a NEW unit it probably starts in English. If it is "pre-owned" then you should ask the seller to reconfigure it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 Well, thanks for the enthusiasm. However: 1) The sellers of the units have all asserted that the unit starts out in Japanese. 2) I have indeed followed up with them and asked whether it is possible to change language to English. They have all said "no" thus far. 3) In fact, I was originally alerted to the issue when the seller of my first unit let me know that the device and manuals were in Japanese *only*. 4) The English manual I downloaded for the unit does *not* include language among the menu options *at all*, a most curious omission. The above notwithstanding, I would still love to assume it is possible to change the unit language. However even you yourself have admitted that there is no evidence of language change for the RH1 sourced from Japan yet. Does your Canadian RH1 allow you to set its language to Japanese, for instance? That would be a start. Please let me know - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 I have nothing to add. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, sfbp said: I have nothing to add. Sorry. So you don't have a language change option on your unit, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphig Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Don't know if this helps - found a copy in my archives..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 By Jove... Look like you get the price, Sphig. Could be useful to let us know what else do you have in your archives. Think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Sphig said: Don't know if this helps - found a copy in my archives..... Wow, that's great! Is this confirmed for the RH1 unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 We do have a japanese member of SI, haven't we ? Stephen as an administrator, can you get inside more easier than us (search engine) in member's profile ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 There are some Americans who lived in Japan. One of these definitely had multiple Japanese units. I just have to remember who. Anyone with the Grey (as opposed to black) version of RH1 is probably getting the Japanese model. I am reasonably certain that all the Japanese (domestic) models of all Sony gear have English menus. The converse is untrue. In any event, you don't even need the menu for the important purpose of the RH1 - uploading. And best to buy something else for listening or recording. So it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I have a grey unit (and a black one bought in France, both completely repaired by Jim Hoggarth) : the "Marsupilami" one, set in english when I bought it (no idea if it had been sold in Viêt-Nam when brand new model or imported from Japan then got a new language setting in english). But I need some explanation how to enter (and exit) the service mode, your "nope" tend to make me cautious. Found that anyway : from Alexis << A little more about MD regions * You can display, but not edit, roman and japanese characters using any device. * You can edit english roman characters using a japanese model. * You cannot edit all european roman characters on a japanese unit. * You cannot edit a text that has been entered on a foreign machine, even if it uses the common subset of english-only roman characters. * The character set used on the remote is dependent on the region of the player. Try the following to make an example: Take an american or european unit, title any track "TEST", put the MD into a japanese and try to edit this track. You get a "CAN'T EDIT". This is because of the region. That is why it is useful to change the region of foreign devices to keep them compatible with other units of the same region. All this is based on my own experience with an RH-1 (japanese), an RH-10 (american), and an MC40ELK remote (chinese). >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 hours ago, sfbp said: There are some Americans who lived in Japan. One of these definitely had multiple Japanese units. I just have to remember who. Anyone with the Grey (as opposed to black) version of RH1 is probably getting the Japanese model. I am reasonably certain that all the Japanese (domestic) models of all Sony gear have English menus. The converse is untrue. In any event, you don't even need the menu for the important purpose of the RH1 - uploading. And best to buy something else for listening or recording. So it doesn't matter. What are the reasons you say its better to use something else for listening or recording? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 The RH1 is a fragile unit. Because of that, some of us think that it is better to use it at home, like a very small deck to be use gently. Myself I use it for recording mostly connected digitally to my laptop and use a NH700 for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I FORGOT ABOUT THE REGION CHANGE. On the RH10, there's a language setting on both Japanese and non-Japanese models. In the Japanese model, you can switch between English and Japanese. On the European model you can switch between English, French, German, Italian, and Spanish. You can even make the Japanese model into the European by changing DistFL from 23 to 20, and vice-versa. I just did that. On the DH710 there's no Language in the options menu and if you set DistFL (113) the menus don't change... there is no Language option. The DH710 actually came out around the time of the RH1, so it's possible that the two firmwares are similar. Bad news. My previous comments related to the fact that both my Japanese MZ-RH10 and Japanese NW-F887 allowed one to switch between English and Japanese. Since these bracket the RH1, it seemed likely that a real Japanese RH1 has the option. However the behaviour of the MZ-DH710 has me worried that perhaps I was wrong. Philippe - can you see the back of your giraffe? Mine is in English, the Japanese one will be in Japanese. Service mode is almost impossible to enter on most used RH1's. The jog lever tends to over-react. A brand new one should be fine, if it allows you to change regions. A big IF. I still say you don't care. The only purpose of an RH1 is to upload things that cannot be uploaded ANY OTHER WAY. Using what has become a totally overpriced unit (usually around double what I paid for mine brand new) for listening is reckless and irresponsible, as you will not be able to afford a new one when it (inevitably) breaks. These machines are, as Philippe says, fragile. So much so that Jim Hoggarth completely busted one trying to get it apart for servicing. There should be another way to get into service mode, which I have used on other recalcitrant MD units. It's not mentioned in the RH1 service manual, so all bets are off. That is, you can solder a bridge to force it always into test mode. The third way to get into service mode involves some software, and no one seems to have that for the RH1, although it's available for all the units where we CAN get in easily by pressing buttons (all the ones except RH1 I get into the service menu first time always). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Well, I had cancelled my order, but then re-instated it, in hopes that the language issue would be solvable. It seems there's many reasons why the MiniDisc format died off. In my experience with the Sony MP3 players released in 1999/2000, the software was horrible (and the support even worse). I figure Sony was never able to get the software issues sorted. Shame for the format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 The point of the RH1 was a parting gesture to allow people to recover their recordings off MD (BBC radio for example used MD for almost 20 years). Some of the subsequent solid-state players and recorders are really impressive. But here in this forum you are talking to a bunch of folks who really love MDs for all their quirkiness and charm. One of my fave units is the one that Sergio gave me "If you can fix it, it's yours", an E909 - one of the lightest ever manufactured. It gives me pleasure to listen on a unit that I managed to repair The other appeal is one of appearance - the disks and devices are a delight to hold in the hand - "How on earth did they do that?". Don't recommend the RH1 as a listening device, you can get many nice alternatives for 1/5 to 1/10 the price. Ebay is your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Yes, ever since seeing the first MiniDisc ad on MTV Europe in 93 (or was it 94?) I fell in love with the device. I had a MiniDisc recorder in the late 90s, which was lost during a move, unfortunately. I am basically getting into this out of nostalgia; it is possible to find brand-new RH1 devices on Amazon, hence my enthusiasm. However the language issue reminds me of the disappointments of old with Sony. A real pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I was quite delighted to discover all the domestic (Japanese) models seem to have an English option. I see no reason why the RH1 would not, but i still say it doesn't matter. You only need this unit if you want to upload stuff. Guess what.... the service menus are all in English Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I was hoping to record my live sets. Would sure make the track markings a lot easier, as I'd be able to do that live. I understand with the Hi-MD format, I can record at CD quality without compression for about 100 minutes? I'd have preferred two-three hours, but I can probably live with that for most of my productions. Does the line-in recording work well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Forget line-in and MZ-whatever PCM - it's a mismatch of capabilities. Better to get a PCM-M10. The HiMD disks are stupidly expensive now, and the quality you get (16 bits) is really not as good as either 256K Atrac3+ (which is a 24-bit format) or real 24/44 or 24/96 both of which you can do with the PCM-M10 - and a 16GB MicroSD card giving you enough for 8-10 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Would line-in still be a mismatch if I'm happy with 16/44? Are there any artificial restrictions on recordings I make - I remember some "first/second generation digital copy" stuff... I'd still need to be able to transfer tracks to my PC. Does their SonicStage work with Windows 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 11 hours ago, sfbp said: Philippe - can you see the back of your giraffe? Mine is in English, the Japanese one will be in Japanese. Sorry Stephen, when Jim sent me back my RH1 units, I dressed the grey unit with a green panther sticker design (the orange marsupilami was far more beautiful). So the informations are not apparent, except if I put off the skin, a thing I don't want to do as the poor unit has many scratches. The text unit is in english though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 3 hours ago, mimarsinan said: Would line-in still be a mismatch if I'm happy with 16/44? Are there any artificial restrictions on recordings I make - I remember some "first/second generation digital copy" stuff... I'd still need to be able to transfer tracks to my PC. Does their SonicStage work with Windows 10? PCM uploads are a real pain. The file you get is NOT a WAV file, but is protected. So now you have to go through the whole "convert" thing before being able to edit it. So you get a lot of files floating around (and the WAV files have no metadata, of course). It's quite easy to lose track of the parts of your recording. I would strongly recommend upconverting them to 24 bits before doing any more editing, as well. Line in is so vulnerable to electrical noise (the horrible 3.5mm jack) that I don't trust it on most MD recorders. You may be fine, you may not be - it's usually a function of the cable, but also the jack sockets are the first things (after the jog lever) to go sideways. Also the possibility of ground loops if you are using a sound system as input but want to have the MD running on mains? Perhaps an A->D and use optical signal? That's one strike *against* the PCM-M10 which does NOT do optical in. I was thinking the direct mikes in the PCM-10 which have always done wonderfully, but if you would get a better recording from the sound system, that's your decision. What I'm trying to say is: for microphone recordings, use something with a bigger dynamic range (ie 24 bits) so that you don't overload and yet still can amplify very quiet passages (if they exist). I don't trust the auto-gain function on any of these recorders (MD or not) for real musical purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Does the MiniDisc I ordered come with an optical in, then? A lot of bad news with these Sony devices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 There are plenty of good news. All MD units have an optical "mini-jack toslink" in. The recording quality is so good (even considering a compression) that you can consider to buy a very good digital cable (jack 3.5" to mini-jack) like an Audioquest Forest. Same thing for the headphone. If you use it as a portable unit, buy also a carying pouch (with at least one hole to connect the headphone) to prevent scratches (a lever cigar boxe is even possible). And use it gently every time you open it to change the disc or use the buttons. Doing that you will be able to resell the unit in some years at the same price you bough it. About the recordings modes, there are different "schools" here about what is the best for you (not only for the quality but also for question of storage, time, full universality between different generation of all your units, etc). The best news is that it is still quite easy to find (cheap) standard MD discs (no need of only sealed ones) that can be formatted in Hi-MD mode (or not), 1 Gb Hi-MD are nethertheless quite rare and expensive nowadays. And finally you will use a vintage audio device that will last a loooong time with you (if you use it gently). Beside another less expensive portable unit and a (good) deck are warmly advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I don't plan on going running with the device, but I was hoping I could take it on walks with me. Interesting that you can format standard MD discs in Hi-MD mode. Is this dangerous at all? Do the copying limitations apply even to the optical line input, for my original work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippeC Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I don't know a lot about copyright and limitations when you transfer music to the disc or upload files with the help of the RH1. There are some topics about this in the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, mimarsinan said: I don't plan on going running with the device, but I was hoping I could take it on walks with me. Interesting that you can format standard MD discs in Hi-MD mode. Is this dangerous at all? Do the copying limitations apply even to the optical line input, for my original work? It's m u c h cheaper to use standard MDs than HiMD 1GB. The capacity is about double what you get in legacy more, 141 minutes in Hi-SP (256k). I would highly recommend this for your live recordings. The 1GB disks use a lot more battery, too, since you are writing a lot more data to the MD. You can upload the file but unless you take steps to unprotect it, it will be locked to your machine (and the current Windows install) unless you convert to WAV every time. However the "unprotection" is the way to go... the "File Conversion Tool" is built into SonicStage and the result of running it is that your files are no longer at the mercy of Sony's overly-fussy rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Thanks for the info. My unit has just arrived and I should know more soon about the language issue. Regarding SonicStage...does it run on Windows 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Heh, yes.... but. 1. You need to turn off driver signing (assuming you have 64-bit Windows you're going to need the (unsigned) driver files I made for NetMD) to install. In windows 10 this is not so easy 2. you should turn off automatic updating (and you can turn it on once a week or whenever but you will lose your encrypted files unless you're very careful). The relevant registry key is HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Windows Update, and you need a value "DisableWindowsUpdateAccess" set to 1 (DWORD). This is the only known way of disabling Windows 10 updates, unless you can enforce from a domain policy (not as easy as it may sound). The other trick is that, if your installation appears to crap out, DO NOT uninstall before retrying. Just do it over the top of the mess, it should work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Wow, it sounds like it'll be better to run the Sony software in a virtual machine instead of completely modifying Windows 10. Hopefully that'll work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Give it a shot but I'm not optimistic. Sony tends to do lowlevel hw things. Did you get into service mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Well, device is here. Most display elements seem English on the main device. The remote does display some Japanese, and there doesn't seem to be an option to turn it off. However as far as I can tell, the language out-of-the-box is mostly English, which is a relief. Sadly there was no disc in the box, so I am waiting for my Hi-MD's to arrive before I can move further with using the unit. They definitely did a good job on shrinking the whole device down to the size of one disc, give or take. That's what I do remember Sony for - in a good way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Surprised about the remote. Poke around and see if there's an English language option. If not, I'm fairly sure we can make it into a US/Canada version, as long as you can get into service mode. If u have ordinary MDs they work just fine. Choice of standard (legacy) format or HiMd format which gives almost double the amount of data (and it's a slightly better Codec). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimarsinan Posted October 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Haven't really ordered regular MD's yet. Started with the Hi's right off the bat. Waiting for them to arrive. Sure, I'll experiment with bricking the device Let me know if you have any specific instructions for region swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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