Test Jigs

[kgallen]

So to round off, the error count reached 0xff. All that means is Sony implemented an 8-bit binary counter in which to count errors. That counter counts from 0 and when it gets to %1111_1111 in binary (i.e. all 8 bits have got to 1), we have counted to 0xff or 255 decimal. When they get there, they just hold that maximum count. Who cares if you've had more than 255 errors. If you've had 255 errors then investigation is needed - no value in counting to some higher number!

So they give you an error count that can go to 255 but they also store the last 10 (or maybe first 10!) diagnostics codes (the Exx codes) so the Service Tech can judge if there is some dominant issue.

Depending on what @NGY thinks, maybe for some machines we should reset the error record and then use the machine and thus get a fresh report of what the error conditions are the deck is seeing, rather than all of that historical stuff, some of which could be error codes captured years ago and are not necessarily related to the current condition or symptoms of our machine.

[M1JWR]

8 minutes ago, kgallen said:

So to round off, the error count reached 0xff. All that means is Sony implemented an 8-bit binary counter in which to count errors. That counter counts from 0 and when it gets to %1111_1111 in binary (i.e. all 8 bits have got to 1), we have counted to 0xff or 255 decimal. When they get there, they just hold that maximum count. Who cares if you've had more than 255 errors. If you've had 255 errors then investigation is needed - no value in counting to some higher number!

i read through the previous post, exellent as it was some of it was over my head, i got the quoted post though, phew what a complicated set up, there must be many players with 255 errors plus and we will never know, unless you've had them from new or at least for a very long time.

[kgallen]

4 minutes ago, M1JWR said:

i read through the previous post, excellent as it was some of it was over my head

Nah, come on you're not that daft. You've found your way through this MD stuff. Give it a go, write some numbers down.

Choose something whacky like base 7 and count 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,20,...

[M1JWR]

you diddent go out with carol voardaman did you , i remember pre decimal suppose the base number was 12 for that

[kgallen]

3 minutes ago, M1JWR said:

i remember pre decimal suppose the base number was 12 for that

Indeed it was - well a mixture of base 12 and base 20 too? (You have a couple of years on me, but not many!).

And clocks are essentially base 60 (although we use decimal numbers to count the seconds/minutes/hours).

[M1JWR]

3 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Indeed it was - well a mixture of base 12 and base 20 too? (You have a couple of years on me, but not many!).

And clocks are essentially base 60 (although we use decimal numbers to count the seconds/minutes/hours).

yeah thats right when i think about it, anyway back to the lighter note 42, on hitchikers guide to the galaxy the question was whats the ultimate answer to the ultimate question, the world, universe and everything else, and the answer was 42, i do understand numbers fairly well, just all that lot is a lot to take in

[NGY]

1 hour ago, kgallen said:

maybe for some machines we should reset the error record and then use the machine and thus get a fresh report of what the error conditions are the deck is seeing, rather than all of that historical stuff, some of which could be error codes captured years ago and are not necessarily related to the current condition or symptoms of our machine.

I fully agree.

Latest ten error codes give an idea, what happened recently. After taking notes on these I always do an "error refresh", and as you wrote, I keep going on with the tests/fixes/settings while keeping my eyes on the new errors appearing, if any. In case "total err" is increasig rapidly after a reset (i.e., shows "ff" again), that's an immediate sign in itself, that something wrong is happening.

Funny though that Sony uses different error code tables for certain deck families.

[M1JWR]

i can reset 602724 quite easy as its ever present and a keeper, and from my untrained eye on the figures quite healthy

[M1JWR]

bought these for mdm 7's, may take up to a month to get here, you get a pack of 5 apparently, maybe the tests on the 7's will come under another thread

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pitch-1-0mm-7-Pin-7P-FFC-FPC-Flexible-Flat-Cable-80C-60V-50mm-3000mm-Width-8mm-/263991218086

[NGY]

Yeah, I forgot to mention... If you have a deck you already scrapped for parts, the 1mm pitch ribbons can be utilized for the test jig. Just cut a 7 threads wide strip with a pair of scissors, and you are there. The very first MDM-7 jig I made was improvized from a ribbon scrapped from an old inkjet/scanner device. But then I wanted a more professional looking one :-) , and bougth a similar pack of ribbons off ebay, also the SMD wire-to-board connectors.

Edit: if you don't want to hassle with SMD soldering, there exists the through-hole version of this connector. You can solder it into the other half of your test pcb board, and make another sexy jig :-) .

(Generic picture, shows an 8 pin socket)

[M1JWR]

might try simplified to start with, super glue ribbon onto pcb and solder wires to ribbon connectors and the rest would be like the one in the first pic more or less

ive got one that i can cut from that scrapped 520, the one that goes from the display board to main pcb, can cut that to the 7 connectors at either end. that display is a bit fubar'ed anyway, a lot of dead segments.

[NGY]

Yes, that would nicely work.

You may want to make - sort of - strain-relief cuts for the flat ribbon, by opening 4...5 holes in line into one straight hole, with a carpet cutter knife, and make two of them in parallel in say two holes distance.

[M1JWR]

nope cant do that, eyesight not good enough even with magnifying lamp and twp pairs of glasses, cant solder that small,even with wrapping wire around end of iron etc etc,  no cigar i am afraid, have through hole board connector from scrapped cd player, its 22 pin though, could modify that maybe and wire up only 7 of its pins, and cut other end of ribbon at deck end, have that old bd board for test fitting, otherwise are these the female ends needed, never delt with this firm before, would get 5 incase of f ups.

https://www.enrgtech.co.uk/buy/product/ET11659376/52806-0710

[M1JWR]

ex cd player ribbon different pitch, so cancel that plan.

[kgallen]

I have one of these with the intention of removing one socket and adding some test pins.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-0mm-Pitch-7Pin-to-7P-Extension-Connector-Aapter-for-FFC-FPC-Cable-Extend-ZIP/362650010017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

There are breakout boards available but they only seem to come in the even pin-count versions. I have an 8P version with the thought of making it work with the 7P FFC, but there is a risk of me shorting two cores and damaging the machine so I'm not convinced by that approach.

At some point I need to set up the drive in my working E10 (motherboard taken from another E10 unit) so I need to get the 'ole LPM out and make an IOP board...

[NGY]

You can get a ten pack of an SMD 7 pin FPC socket for the price of one of that extension connector.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10Pcs-FPC-FFC-1mm-1-0mm-Pitch-7-Pin-Drawer-Flat-Cable-Connector-Top-Contact/172243355965?hash=item281a81093d:g:x8kAAOSwB9xXPDaj

I admit though that not everyone is familiar/comfortable with making their own pcb. Should you want to go that route, I can share the film layout I made for my jig. I just found it among other photos by accident. Maybe I open a business for making MD test jig boards :-) !

[M1JWR]

those look like surface mount gentlemen

[NGY]

Correct.

Kevin came up with the idea of using that extension board, that would save him fabricating a pcb. My reply was meant that the 7 pin standalone sockets are available and cheaper, and he might either use them on an 8 pin breakout board without risking a short circuit, or make his own board like mine, if he wanted to, for what I have the film layout.

But as we are here, let me ask you if the two you (also, Stephen?) are interested in a jig board, with the 7 pin SMD socket already soldered on it and drilled for the test pins. You can then add/solder the pins you like and use your own ribbons. At no cost to you, even postage is minimal for such a tiny item. Let me know - sometime during the winter I will have to make one for a friend, and once I am already in those chemicals, I can do two or three more within the same "overhead".

[kgallen]

3 minutes ago, NGY said:

But as we are here, let me ask you if the two you (also, Stephen?) are interested in a jig board, with the 7 pin SMD socket already soldered on it and drilled for the test pins.

Yep if you can get a batch of PCBs made I'm up for one or two. Even the blank PCB will do me if easier for you. I can just about solder 1mm pitch SMD.

But you won't be doing it for free, I'll pay the dues gladly.

Kevin

[sfbp]

31 minutes ago, NGY said:

Correct.

Kevin came up with the idea of using that extension board, that would save him fabricating a pcb. My reply was meant that the 7 pin standalone sockets are available and cheaper, and he might either use them on an 8 pin breakout board without risking a short circuit, or make his own board like mine, if he wanted to, for what I have the film layout.

But as we are here, let me ask you if the two you (also, Stephen?) are interested in a jig board, with the 7 pin SMD socket already soldered on it and drilled for the test pins. You can then add/solder the pins you like and use your own ribbons. At no cost to you, even postage is minimal for such a tiny item. Let me know - sometime during the winter I will have to make one for a friend, and once I am already in those chemicals, I can do two or three more within the same "overhead".

The correct response (by me) to that is a question: "Is the Pope (a) Catholic?"

Of course, and I'll happily pay for postage to these distant shores from Pest

Thanks!!!

Stephen

[M1JWR]

no problem with postage this end either, i actually have one on that old bd board, sooner you than me, those pins are tiny, much appreciated, there is still that link also for through hole type if anybody interested meantime.got an old cassette deck to mess about with for now.

[NGY]

Great, I will make them in the very near future.

Apologies if my wording was ambiguous - I did not mean you'd have to pay for postage. Quite the contrary. "At no cost to you", plain as it is.

I will send a PM to all of you when the boards are ready.

[M1JWR]

i have made a jig for mdm 7's its crude but it works and have tested it on two decks that i will report on shortly, i recieved the 7 pin ribbons, so i removed the female part from the knackered mdm 7 bd board that i have and stuck it to a piece of veroboard, and to cut a long story short about delicate soldering, it works, i checked for shorted pins first and by miracle it hasent any, the other side of the pic is the usual pins like on the mdm 5 jig, so nothing new to see there, the two players were a 470 and a 940, the 940 was a little more comprehensive in the details i will put down. the 470 first s/n6606247, i bought it needing a new belt though another repair was needed as the board behind the ams had a couple of hairlines through tracks that made the ams push function u/s, a wire link was put in and now is good, i think both these players suffer from the 1hr thing in the history because basically thats all both have, on the 470 its 0.9mw$11 at 19.3 and 7mw is 53.4 (54.4 on sticker)

the first deck i ever bought to fix was this 940, it had a broken drive unit, its not a uk model, i bought another drive unit that had a shot owh, so i put on its original owh and all is good, somebody had removed two of the optical and 1 coaxial jack out of the back, i got replacements from a scrapped 510 board i bought from the bay for little money, i found that 1 optical did not work, and somewhere there is an invisible hairline through a track, a wire link fixed that, so all is 100%.

s/n 5503208 0.9mw$11 18.0, 7mw 52.1 (53.5 on sticker)op and play 1hr each spdl time 2hrs, retry error r00 p93, total ff, error history i think there is 5 positions and they are either 30 or 31,

might try some others over the weekend

[kgallen]

You’ve been busy! That’s some good debug and repair you’ve done on that set of decks. All brought back from the dead- good news! 

[NGY]

10 hours ago, M1JWR said:

its crude but it works

Great job, well done. You must begin somewhere.

You see, it all started in the early stone age, tools were crude but worked - and now were are in the age of space- and "nano" technologies.

 

[M1JWR]

i have checked 2 other ex repair decks today, both bought on the cheap needing belts some months ago, infact i remember the 480 needed nowt, seller error, got one anyway.

470 s/n 5516667 0.9mw$11 19.9, 7mw - 54.1 (sticker says 54.4), retry error 3E P29, total D4, History 00-30, 01-10, 02-51, 03-10, 04-50, 05-51, 06-10, 07-51, 08-10, 09-51

480 s/n6682482 0.93mw$11 17.9, 7mw - 50.4(no sticker), rec time 25 mins, play time 239hrs, retry error R00 P58, total 77, history 00-31, 01-51, 02-10, 03-31, 04-51, 05-31, 06-51, 07-31, 08-20, 09-51. will have to have a read at what those history figures are all about, no doubt the key player will be that 440 that got a replacement bd board some time ago, will see what i can dig out next

[M1JWR]

another two tests, i'll not bother with the error history, though i wrote them down if needed, just that 440 with the fresh bd board to do though i will have to ratch that one out, next weekend for that one, and the 980, i'll leave that one alone, ive had it many years and i know whats its done.both these two were spares or repair needing belts.

440 s/n 602565, 0.9$10 17.9, 7mw 53.2 (53.7 on sticker), retry error b 5 p ff, total ff

470 s/n 5502169 0.9$11 16.2, 7mw 48.5 (49.7 on sticker) retry error r ff p 13 total ff

still think the 440 is better build than 470 and 470 in turn is better build than 480, lots of wire jumpers in those two, 440 has proper populated through hole components on circuit board.

[NGY]

On 2020. november 2. at 11:15 PM, NGY said:

jig board

The day has come - your MDM-7 jig boards are thrown together and ready to ship out.

[M1JWR]

and now built, sorry i havent been around mutch for a while, work has been manic, cheers guyla

how are you getting on with yours stephen and kevin

 

[sfbp]

Things pretty manic around here too. Mine is sitting on the table next to my newly-purchased (used) Mac. Sigh

[kgallen]

Here is my MDM-7 jig in action, as kindly provided by @NGY.

Erm... what do you mean I'm not using it as intended?!!! :-D

Here it is, perfectly repurposed to allow me to read the I2C EEPROM chip on an MDM-7SC drive (MDS-E10) :-D - in conjunction with an Arduino (sketch also attached).

For the eagle-eyed, yes they are Nichicon Fine Gold caps in there on the analogue I/O. Factory fit. Not so in my other later E10 though...

sketch_read_mdm7_eeprom.ino

[NGY]

3 hours ago, kgallen said:

perfectly repurposed to allow me to read the I2C EEPROM chip on an MDM-7SC drive

Ingenious call, Kevin! Now this is creative thinking! With your permission, the idea is stolen!

[kgallen]

51 minutes ago, NGY said:

Ingenious call, Kevin! Now this is creative thinking! With your permission, the idea is stolen!

Of course, go for it!

MDM7 jig v2 has the I2C labels too... ! :-D

[M1JWR]

got a 480 on the way , stuck on standby,will report back when it arrives, hope you are all well gentlemen