NW-A800 EQ Discussion

[hign n mighty]

we all know jow important it is to adjust the eq right .

pls anybody could share their eq setting 4 A800 ??

mineS: CB +3 EQ 2 1 0 1 2

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

[juli_]

Hey Veggie - I haven't done enough listening with the UM2's to comment fairly yet - so I won't - but in the meantime, I can't figure out how to do your 'mod' with the clingfilm on the 808 stock buds. I read everything in your original thread, even looked at the photos you put up, but I still can't understand how you do it!

You say to use a circular motion to twist the clingfilm on, but first you have to get the clingfilm 4 layers thick right? So I folded some clingfilm in half a couple of times and then tried to put it on, but it kept slipping when I put the sleeves back on. In your pics, it looks like a much bigger surface is covered - I just covered the round bit where the vents are, whereas your photo looked like it went all the way over the stem too.

I want to try this method as I'm curious and it also got some very positive feedback. When you said to cut clingfilm 15mm x 5mm - do you then keep folding until you have 4 layers? I know you explained it really clearly, but I am c**p at translating anything mildy 'practical' into action!

Explain it as you would to a 6-year old please.

Edited July 3, 2007 by juli

[juli_]

yep i will have to agree with juli on that the a808 seems to have a more shriller sound when compared to the s706. i have both and i can vouch for the warm sound of the s706 although with a little bit of eq tweaking the a808 can be rid of the harshness although no eq can give it the warm sound of the s706 , IMO.

Exactly - but I'm going to stick with the 808 and let myself adjust to it, as the only unit with better sound (imo) is the 706, which I've sold - because I needed the extra capacity. I think after a few more weeks with the 808, more headphone testing, more tweaking, and no wistful comparisons with the 706 - I might get a sound that I can live with.

Already with different headphones and tweaking, the sound can be altered quite dramatically - but as you say, the warm tone of the 706 can't be copied. I'm going to persevere with as many different combinations as I can, as until Sony brings out something with the 706 sound, there's nothing left to try!

I've tried several other players, (OK, only 4) but the 'best' of them, Creative Vision:m only scored a measly 3/10 sound-wise compared to any Sony I've had. . . so I'll wait it out! Are you still enjoying your E530s?

[dura_]

I think shrillness is a misplaced term.

It does not having piercing, distorted treble. It is not unbalanced tonally either, so that there is no bass.

Rather, compared to smoother sounding Sony players, the A80x misses the midbassbloom, slightly reduced dynamics and very slightly rolled off treble that gives other Sony players their attractive, 'analogue' sound.

But the A80x gives good bass and sounds dynamic and uncolored, true to the source, and is musical and undistorted enough to truly enjoy it's sound, not at all like the sharp basslacking sound of other, uh, popular DAPs.

Because of it's highresolution sound the quality of the headphone is important, even the -good- supplied phones don't do the A80x justice IMO.

Edited July 3, 2007 by dura

[ceres]

I think shrillness is a misplaced term.

It does not having piercing, distorted treble. It is not unbalanced tonally either, so that there is no bass.

Rather, compared to smoother sounding Sony players, the A80x misses the midbassbloom, slightly reduced dynamics and very slightly rolled off treble that gives other Sony players their attractive, 'analogue' sound.

But the A80x gives good bass and sounds dynamic and uncolored, true to the source, and is musical and undistorted enough to truly enjoy it's sound, not at all like the sharp basslacking sound of other, uh, popular DAPs.

Because of it's highresolution sound the quality of the headphone is important, even the -good- supplied phones don't do the A80x justice IMO.

I second your impressions. It´s just many people listen to bass heavy music like hip hop these days and die for some nice warm, midbassbloom I really like the sony mx90 a lot with the 808 and would recommend these phones as an initial step up from the bundled phones. Really, I´d advise caution with the more expensive iems because ,as witnessed here, a whole bunch of them offers rather a signature than sound.

[veggiemusician]

Hey Veggie - I haven't done enough listening with the UM2's to comment fairly yet - so I won't - but in the meantime, I can't figure out how to do your 'mod' with the clingfilm on the 808 stock buds. I read everything in your original thread, even looked at the photos you put up, but I still can't understand how you do it!

You say to use a circular motion to twist the clingfilm on, but first you have to get the clingfilm 4 layers thick right? So I folded some clingfilm in half a couple of times and then tried to put it on, but it kept slipping when I put the sleeves back on. In your pics, it looks like a much bigger surface is covered - I just covered the round bit where the vents are, whereas your photo looked like it went all the way over the stem too.

I want to try this method as I'm curious and it also got some very positive feedback. When you said to cut clingfilm 15mm x 5mm - do you then keep folding until you have 4 layers? I know you explained it really clearly, but I am c**p at translating anything mildy 'practical' into action!

Explain it as you would to a 6-year old please.

DID I say 15mm x 5 mm??? thats way too small.... try 20mm x 50mm and cut off rest thats not used.

You have to stretch the clingfilm over the drivers from the back to front so that the cling flim sticks to the head phonts...

1) place headphone in you left hand and piece of clingfilm in you right

2) hold the headphone as you are looking at the back - as you would see it if someone was looking at the headphone in your ear.

3) put the edge of the clingfilm on this back - on the other side is the funnel where the bud goes in... hold the bit of clingfilm you placed on the back with left thumb to hold it in place.

4) in one movement pull the clingfilm over the front of the unit over the vents and round to the over side - you need a bit of tension on the clingfilm so it will stick - too much or it will rip. You will find it will stick then. You need about 4 layers.

If you cant get it to work - you some electrical tape and stick a pin hole in centre hole once finnished.

What you think about the UM2? Have you tried them with sony buds yet? DONT US UM2 FOAMS ewwwwww

Edited July 3, 2007 by veggiemusician

[juli_]

Veggie, I listened to the UM2s with the Shure black foam tips, but still found them too bright. I think I must be quite sensitive to brightness of any kind. The sound quality was great, except that in order for it to sound great - I had to turn it up pretty loud - louder than I would normally listen to, which makes listening in bed a no-no as (like the E500s) - they sound very average at lower volumes, and very good at higher volumes.

I actually got a chance to try my friends SE210 today (and EX90) and was really surprised at the SE210 soundstage and overall presentation, in fact, it had the most enjoyable sound I've heard with my 808! Plus it sounded good at lower volumes too - it's a lot less bright than the E500 and the vocals are closer and 'higher up' which I really like.(like you're in front of the singer while he's on stage, very realistic) I had to fiddle with the tips a lot because even when they seemed to fit OK, the sound was c**p - but once I pushed them in at an angle they were pretty damn good!

The EX90 is also very very good - but the Shure was a million times better to my ears, I kept swapping back and forth and the difference was huge.

As for Shure's 'cheapo' entry level model, I'm really surprised that I liked the sound so much, especially after having had the E4G and E500. It's like an E4G with more bass and less 'brightness' (which always left ringing in my ears). Someone (maybe on this site, not sure) said it was rubbish with no bass, no mids, no treble, no sound (!!), but I didn't think that at all. I think based on this, it might be that the SE420 will be my next choice to try, and after that. . . well, there's nothing, I'll have tried all the ones I wanted! I wouldn't try the SE310 as I read a few reviews that said they were 'indistinguishable' from the SE210 and cost an extra $100! If the SE420 is not to my 'liking' I would probably get the SE210 if they drop in price because so far with the 808, they give the most acceptable sound as they reduce the 'shrillness' without sounding foggy at all. I'm not saying they're technically in the same league as the other top models, just that they seemed to produce the most pleasant overall sound for my ears out of all the headphones I've tried so far.

Well, I'm off now to wallow in my own surprise that I actually preferred a single-driver setup to the dual and triple drivers. . .

Edited July 3, 2007 by juli

[ppau0822]

can u removew the annoying shrillness thru tweaking ?

i've almost tried every means to tweak my a806 right ,unluckily ,i just can't get the warm sound i want without losing any details.for me i don't think a806 is not as good as 706 in terms of tweaking

i feel you man, the a808 doesnt have the warmth of the s706, and it is espacially apparant when you move from the s706.how ever ou can tweak the eq to remove the shrillness a bit ( if you can call that shrillness)

i use CB:3, and 2,1,-1,0,-1.

[ppau0822]

I've tried several other players, (OK, only 4) but the 'best' of them, Creative Vision:m only scored a measly 3/10 sound-wise compared to any Sony I've had. . . so I'll wait it out! Are you still enjoying your E530s?

definitely am enjoying the sound of the se530, which is detailed and has good bass although you cant say that its a warm 'phone.

was really surprised at the SE210 soundstage and overall presentation, in fact, it had the most enjoyable sound I've heard with my 808!

does the se210 sacrifice details for a warm and rich sound? one of the main reasons im hesistant to let go of my s530 is beacuse i think i ight miss the details more.

I think based on this, it might be that the SE420 will be my next choice to try, and after that. . .

well you sure are going through headphones fast!! i might wait for the westone 3s before i consider changing.

[juli_]

does the se210 sacrifice details for a warm and rich sound? one of the main reasons im hesistant to let go of my s530 is beacuse i think i ight miss the details more.

It does sacrifice some detail compared with the E500, but as I haven't listened to the E500 for over a week, it's impossible to make a direct comparison. I can't say I yearned for any extra detail though. I would say (to my ears) that the treble is about the same, I listened to a song with cymbals crashing through it - and I remember they were very indistinct on the E500, and about the same with the 210.

And I don't know if this makes sense, but I found the E500's slightly too 'separated' for me, in that none of the music blended together, it was as if the bass, mids and treble were so isolated from each other that I couldn't get any sense of involvement.

The 210 has better 'blending' (??) and I think that's why I enjoy the sound more.

I also preferred the vocals on the SE210, I always felt they were too far away on the E500. Also, with the E500 I had to take them off every now and again because the 'coldness' would hurt my ears - I didn't have this problem with the SE210 at all. But the E500's are slightly more comfortable. Regardless of all the detail the E500 outputs - I would rather listen to the SE210's simply because the presentation was nicer.

Yes, I'm getting through a lot of headphones, thank God I can return or sell them - but the main reason is because I'm still trying to find the right combination with the 808 - a problem I didn't have with the 706 as I only tried 3 headphones and settled for the third pair.

Just found out the SE420 is travelling from north London to stockists today, so have ordered them and they should be here tomorrow.

I would really like to stop 'searching' for headphones now and just enjoy the music!

[juli_]

The only 'problem' with the SE210 is it's very fickle once it's in the ear. I tend to have to keep them pressed in at an angle - as soon as I let go, they sound like a tinny old radio - maybe that's why the other reviewer slated them. That would definitely be a dealbreaker for me as I can't keep fiddling with them once they're in - and no - using different sized tips didn't make a difference - they just seem to be angled slightly differently to the E4 and E500.

Anyway, the SE420 is en route to me as I type, so tomorrow I'll get to try my last headphone. I think the Westone 3 would be overkill for me, so I'm hoping the SE420 might just hit the right spot

[juli_]

I second your impressions. It´s just many people listen to bass heavy music like hip hop these days and die for some nice warm, midbassbloom I really like the sony mx90 a lot with the 808 and would recommend these phones as an initial step up from the bundled phones. Really, I´d advise caution with the more expensive iems because ,as witnessed here, a whole bunch of them offers rather a signature than sound.

Actually Ceres, I'm beginning to understand what you mean about high-end iems offering a 'signature' rather than 'sound'. As I said in a previous post, the cheaper entry-level Shure SE210 matches very nicely with the 808 - if I could only get them to stay in for longer than a few minutes!

The higher up the scale I go, the more disappointed I get, and although I understand the E500 and Westone UM2 are supposed to really shine with an amp - I don't plan to use an amp for portable listening, so maybe a really high-end headphone is wasted on me.

I am definitely giving up the search tomorrow if the SE420 lets me down. It is exhausting looking for the 'perfect' headphone!

Edited July 4, 2007 by juli

[hign n mighty]

just got my s706,compared with my a806(just sold),s706 gives me a musch more plesant sound,which is mos def smoother n warmer.while i found that the supplied headphone does'nt seem 2 match the palyer,juli could u advice ur choice in terms of headphone that match the s706? um2 e500 or what?

much appriciated !

[juli_]

just got my s706,compared with my a806(just sold),s706 gives me a musch more plesant sound,which is mos def smoother n warmer.while i found that the supplied headphone does'nt seem 2 match the palyer,juli could u advice ur choice in terms of headphone that match the s706? um2 e500 or what?

much appriciated !

That's great! Really glad you like the 706 - I thought you would, based on what you thought of the 808 (too sharp etc). Re: headphones, it's hard to recommend anything to anyone since we all have different listening preferences etc.

What I suggest you do for now is try Veggiemusicians method of 'modding' the supplied headphones.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.p...;highlight=EX90

Although this mod is for the EX90, it works the same for the 706 supplied buds.

At least 90% of people who tried it said it really improved the headphones, and you might not even need to get another set. I wouldn't 'upgrade' to the EX90's as I thought they sounded pretty much the same as the 706 supplied headphones. Not saying they're bad because they're not at all - it's just the supplied ones are pretty good in the first place. I wasn't keen on the E500s with the 706, but I also wasn't keen on them with the 808 so it's possible I just don't like the 'separation' on the E500s. In other words I can hear all the frequencies really distinctly (which a lot of people like) - but for me the separation meant none of the music 'blended' and that took away the enjoyment for me. It's a good headphone, but I 'appreciated' it more than I 'enjoyed' it. And I thought they were too 'warm' with the 706.

UM2s I don't know - with the 808 I had to have it pretty loud to get the sound quality I wanted, and I wouldn't normally listen at really loud levels - plus I couldn't listen to them in bed because they sounded so ordinary at lower volumes (like the E500). I didn't try them with the 706 as I'd already sold the 706 by then. I also thought they had a really small soundstage so the music was really 'in my head' which wasn't so pleasant at louder volumes! A lot of people use the Sennheiser CX300's with the 706, I found them much too bassy with very little detail, but again, it depends on your listening preferences. I'm getting the SE420 today so I'll let you know what I think of them, although I'd be using them with the 808, so they wouldn't be the same as with the 706, though it seems that whichever headphone is used with the 808 would just sound slightly warmer with the 706. What kind of stuff do you listen to?

[veggiemusician]

Juli Im suprised that you find the UM2's too bright - Have you tried using different tips... If you want a dark sound use Westone foams... if you want a bright sound use Shure tips... something in middle Sony tips... experiment.

Maybe the 808 is not for you.... try looking at iriver! What compression are you using? Atrac mp3? To be honest I find VBR mp3 better than Atrac as I find theres a nasal quality to the treble that can be a bit harsh.

UM2's dont need an amp as they are really sensitive. Amps dont really make much of a differance with them unless you add resistance using an addaptor.

Oh the UM2s need burning in - leave them for 24 hours playing semi loud music (slighly above what you feel you normally listen to). You shall notice an improvement. I found mine to be bright and bassless to begin with.

Edited July 5, 2007 by veggiemusician

[juli_]

Juli Im suprised that you find the UM2's too bright - Have you tried using different tips... If you want a dark sound use Westone foams... if you want a bright sound use Shure tips... something in middle Sony tips... experiment.

Maybe the 808 is not for you.... try looking at iriver! What compression are you using? Atrac mp3? To be honest I find VBR mp3 better than Atrac as I find theres a nasal quality to the treble that can be a bit harsh.

UM2's dont need an amp as they are really sensitive. Amps dont really make much of a differance with them unless you add resistance using an addaptor.

Oh the UM2s need burning in - leave them for 24 hours playing semi loud music (slighly above what you feel you normally listen to). You shall notice an improvement. I found mine to be bright and bassless to begin with.

Veggie, I've got about 50% @ atrac 256, and the rest at wma vbr averaging between 300/400kpbs. I've sold the UMs anyway

I want to keep the 808 as I still prefer the Sony sound over anything else, so it's just a case of matching headphones to the player to my ears.

I never burn in iems, never occurred to me! Currently testing the SE420 in comparison with the allegedly 'inferior' SE210

Edited July 5, 2007 by juli

[juli_]

I think shrillness is a misplaced term.

the A80x misses the midbassbloom, slightly reduced dynamics and very slightly rolled off treble that gives other Sony players their attractive, 'analogue' sound.

YES! That's exactly it. I prefer the warmth of analogue I like vinyl better than CD. In that respect, the 706 is vinyl and the 808 is CD

[dura_]

Maybe the 808 is not for you.... try looking at iriver! What compression are you using? Atrac mp3? To be honest I find VBR mp3 better than Atrac as I find theres a nasal quality to the treble that can be a bit harsh.

This is interesting. I only tried 256kb ATRAC for ages, but MP3 has a more pleasant sound? What do you think, Juli?

[juli_]

This is interesting. I only tried 256kb ATRAC for ages, but MP3 has a more pleasant sound? What do you think, Juli?

To be honest, I haven't tried mp3, only atrac and wma vbr. Is mp3 warmer?

[veggiemusician]

Shame you never burnt in the UM2's they change drasicly Juli

[Shinigami]

Interesting thread! I have two JP NW-S706f's, and recently acquired an EU spec A808. With either my Shure E4c's or my Shure SE530's there is no doubt that there are substantial differences between the 706 and 808, differences that are in favor of the 706 if you are used to that sound (and I have well over a thousand hours listening time on the 706). I might also point out there are subtle differences between my 706's, one has a different overall tonality than the other with the same tracks and firmware. I therefore feel different units of the same device sometimes have component differences that can be picked up by a discerning ear.

I was initially very disappointed with the 808- there was a disturbing noise artifact during track transitions that appeared related to the use of EQ and/or display pop-up. However, I was able to upgrade the firmware and this completely took care of the issue.

The dynamic normalizer on the 808 causes an odd "seeking" effect on the front end of some mp3 encoded tracks with long and low fade-ins compared to the one on the 706.

The sound is much fuller and there is considerably more bass punch on the 706 no matter how much I fiddle with eq. However, all those delightful extra little details you can find in your library with something like an SE530 are perhaps even a bit more accessible with the 808.

With all of this said, the 808 is perfectly satisfying to listen to- it has a different signature than the 706 and less bottom end punch, but it is still eminently listenable, especially compared to any Crapple product.

I also noticed that the volume levels on both 808 and 706 are virtually identical- in other words, sp at a volume of say, 12, with the SE530's, is identical on both units.

And with the 530's you are in 10-seconds-to-ear-bleed territory with the 808 at anything past about 18. So while it does run out of steam with the stock ear-buds past a certain point, it has more than an excess of power for a high-end IEM.

[exaromar]

hey guys,

i plan to get a 808!

unfortunatelly it's currently out of stock but just concerning

the ones with the price i like

so my next question is about headphones.

i read a little bit in this thread and the information i gathered, brings me to the

opinion, that the a808 needs some warm headphones.

would westone um1 be a great partner for the 808?

As they were "warm" IEMs and the 808 is a little bit analytical ?

[juli_]

I found a way to make the A808 sound exactly like the S706 - it's very simple, quick and I can't believe I didn't think of it before.

Simply replace each and every CD you own with vinyl, transfer to CD - rip to computer - transfer to player, and voila! It shouldn't take more than a couple of years at most. Joking aside, I posted this because while I was listening to the 808 earlier (and still suffering a little from its shrillness I might add), I suddenly noticed a real warmth coming from it, it was exactly like listening to the 706 again, full and punchy and 'analoguey' (if there is such a word).

So I checked the song and found it was the only vinyl recording that I have on the player! I guess that just confirms I prefer analogue. Next time I buy a Sony player (which of course I will) - how can I make sure it has an analogue sound before I buy it!

Edited July 10, 2007 by juli

[wham44]

you knw i was just wondering.. is the sound chip diffrent in s706 then in the nwa808? if its the same sound chip perhaps a firmware might change the sound? im quite noob about this so it wld be good if someone can help me out here haha

[juli_]

is the sound chip diffrent in s706 then in the nwa808? if its the same sound chip perhaps a firmware might change the sound?

I'd like to know that too. I think because they both have very different sounds, it can't be the same chip. It would be nice to know as I'd like to make sure my next Sony player has the 706 chip. . . I really prefer the sound of it to my 808, (I do like my 808, but it's kind of a close second best!).

There's already been a firmware update for the 808, version 1.02, but it didn't alter the basic sound signature as far as I remember.

Does anyone know if Sony publish specs for the chips they use?

[akasan]

I was using the Shure E4c which I'm selling as well. They are fantastic for acoustic and classical, but I need something for all styles. I'm re-buying the super.fi's and can only hope they'll be OK. I'll report back if there's any joy!

My Shure e4's left channel just gave out, about to send them back for repair/replacment (under warranty) but looking into other phones. Love the shures but the bass isn't there. I've heard the super.fi's compared favorably to the e4's before, are they truly similar.

Just as the shure's are giving out, my Hd5 died earlier this month, looking at either the a808 or the s706 (4gb real cheap on ebay) or maybe just getting a larger mem card for my w810i (yeah I am a unabashed sony whoar, unfortunately my first player was a md player a few years ago, everytime I try to buy into another brand I come running back to sony so they got me for life now) but I really want something close to the hd5 in SQ, most people hear seem to think the s706 are closest...should I go with that ?

[juli_]

I really want something close to the hd5 in SQ, most people hear seem to think the s706 are closest...should I go with that ?

Yes yes yes, definitely yes. I had the HD5 for a short time, hoping to replace the 706 with it because I wanted the extra storage. But although the HD5 has really good sq (voted the best in its time), the 706 has even better sq. It's like the HD5 on speed, it retains all the smoothness, and goes quite a lot louder.

I had the HD5 on about 20/25 and the 706 on 18/30 for the same volume. If you can sacrifice the extra space, I promise you won't be disappointed with the 706. Plus the supplied headphones are pretty good

Edited July 12, 2007 by juli

[cliffster115]

What is this I'm hearing?

I have the NWZ-A818 the brother to the SS-free A808, and i think it is great! However, when I'm being very critical of my music, I find something peculiar concering artifacts produced. From what I have read in this thread, some have heard "shrills" as a cast off to the treble, and that is what I believe I am hearing. My settings are on normal with the equalizer, used with sony MDR-V700 headphones.

After reading around a bit, i used several user's EQ settings from around this thread, and believe dita's recommendation of cb+3 0,-1,+1,+2,+3 with dynamic normalizer seems to suit me best. I would also like to note that what I'm hearing on the critical side is mostly heard in my left ear, the "shrill" that's being slightly produced applies to some songs. Sometimes this "shrill" or artifact leads me to hear some slight popping or cracking staticky sound, although it is very slight, i can hear it in my left ear. I have also noticed the same when i use the supplied earbuds that came with the player on the same settings of normal eq and custom eq, and 320kbps rips.

Don't get me wrong, but overall the music experience with the A818 and the MDR-v700 are very good, but sometimes the slight shrill can be very annoying. I'm just wondering if it is because of my critical hearing, player, or headphones that are causing this, or if it's simply the way the music has been recorded. Any comments or suggestions or eq settings to decrease this?

[dura_]

Does setting the normaliser too off (as well as CS and DSEE) work?

[cliffster115]

Does setting the normaliser too off (as well as CS and DSEE) work?

hmm if what you mean by work as in hearing the "shrills" or artifacts, then yes, it seems that after turning off those music settings, i can still hear the slight artifacts.

However, i just recently posted something up on altering the bass or treble gains (see my new post) under the test mode for the A818 or A82x series that allows you to alter the gains for bass or treble. I changed and saved the bass gain to -9.0 for the lower frequencies, and it seems that the artifacts aren't there anymore. Perhaps it's just my imagination, but i will do some further critical listening and testing, and report back later!

Edited June 11, 2008 by cliffster115

[aob9]

I noticed the same 'artifacts'. Turning off DN reduces it on all my players, NW A805,NWZ-A818,NW-S703. It's obviously a limitation of the DSP on all devices.

[aafuss]

I only have DN on if i use my Walkman plugged into my Phlips portable stereo's USB jack, all other times it's off.

[aafuss]

My settings for the EX082 or other Sony earbud type headphones:

CB: +3

EQ: +3 +3 +3 +3 +3

VPT: arena

CS: ON

DSEE: ON

[rishabh]

hey guyz

i ve got Nw-e003f wid creative ep-630 headphones n i m totally noob in case of EQ Settings...

Since i m a bass head wat EQ settings will give me best boost..!!!