betamaxDATminidisc Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hi, Here, one forum from Blu-ray Disc Forum James Morrow wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 48GB High Density Minidisc [HDMD] Separates... James Morrow Administrator Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Posts: 98 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:58 am Post subject: 48GB High Density Minidisc [HDMD] Separates... Using the four layer (100GB) technology already demonstrated by TDK but recording on both sides, High Density Minidisc is capable of 48GB. In the shorter term, until the optical head comes down in size and price, 24GB quad-layer single-sided may be more desirable than dual-layer, double-sided. 12GB dual-layer single-sided HDMD could be launched this Summer alongside 50 dual-layer BD discs, but 24GB HDMD is unlikely to arrive until late 2004 or early 2005, whilst 48GB HDMD will probably be late 2005... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :ohmy: :wink: WHAT? THIS IS IT REALLY? Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Stamp Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 i dont think i'll even consider purchasing the system until i see some improvement in transfer speed. but still... thats a lot of memory.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Not impossible, but I believe we'd have to descend to an even lower laser wavelength than what Hi-MD is currently employing to use such densities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nengland Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 My less than optimistic sense... Sony is not going to adopt this too soon with their lesser Hi-MD still not yet even out the gate. I was wondering though, if TDK is developing the medium could Sharp/Kenwood/etc pick up on this w/o licensing through Sony? (and get some mp3 on the sly??) What a bastard Hi-MD is at only 1 gig and a weak codec needing a high rate for anything decent. Something this cool just makes me hate the lil red head all the more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmix Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Wow...now what???? I don't like to buy a new device every time...just want to stick with one and thats that. Do you guys really think this will happend in the time said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 storage is moving so fast, anything is possible. Sony *will* be left in the dust if they don't move to higher capacities and speeds more akin to those computer users are used to. The market is simply moving that way and expects that sort of usability, so I see a competitor really making them rethink their MiniDisc strategy (as they already have, to some extent) or the format falling into irrelevance. In short, yes there will be enhancements to capacity for sure. I doubt it will be before 2 years tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Adjacent Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Well, I personally think, if media like this comes to fruition, it will probably be more of a storage device, rather than a music player. Sony should pursue HDMD as a media for storage. I work on servers, and see SO many backup devices fail, as most are tape based. I think it's time to move away from tape, to MO. A 48GB capacity MD sized disc would work GREAT for that, as long as the write speeds aren't too slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spare Tire Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Blu-ray is like DVD, but with a blue laser, thus, it is not magneto-optic, if i recall correctly. Minidisc here probably means litterally a smaller disc. And you can't flip a minidisc backward and put it into the MD, it doesn't go in that way, so you can't have double side. Unless the reader has a laser pickup on the top and the bottom at the same time, which would make your MD huge ass. Add to that that a MO disc needs the magnetic part, so you gotta have one laser and one magnect on each side at the same time. I don't trust blue rays, the early ones burned out too fast. MDs wont last as long as it does now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Adjacent Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Spare, I hear ya, but you're thinking portable music player... whereas I'm thinking data drive. Like I mentioned, I work on servers, and take buttloads of calls on faulty tape devices. A high capacity MD media would be a GREAT replacement for ancient tape technology. As for portable players, I think 48GB on one disc would be too much. I would only be able to fill up maybe ONE disc at that capacity if I were able to record ALL of my CDs in a PCM format. I think right now, for a portable music player, HiMD will be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbetsho Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 3 days of music in PCM format and 3 months in 48kbps. Would be nice, I wouldn't mind if the player were somewhat bigger. :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spare Tire Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 I would greatly mind a larger player. To top that off, what's the point of having 3 months of music if your batteries don't last a tenth of that. Battery life and portability is everything in a portable player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 These are blue-laser disc, are they not? So they aren't related to HiMD/MO media in general. Don't get your hopes up, but it looks like they're talking about the 8cm formfactor vs. actual MD formfactor. In fact, I wonder if MO can accomodate layers like optical media. Current Magnetic Medias are two sided provided they have two read/write heads. Technically, it's feasible to have dual sided MDs, if there were double sided MD players/recorders as well. But then again, having 2 optical/magnetic units seem.... you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandsun Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Right, the Blu-Ray forum is talking about blue-laser optical media. It's possible to have a reasonably compact double-sided mechanism, I've seen plenty of ultra-slim laptop floppy drives. (3-1/2" double sided media, remember?) So the idea isn't too far-fetched. But I just saw an NH600 at the local electronics shop, and I was disgusted at how bulky it is. Especially compared to my MZN10. I think Sony has some work to do still re: developing and miniaturizing this HiMD technology... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spare Tire Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Its silly to compare the NH600 with the N10. It's not because it's a Hi-MD that makes the NH600 fat, it's because it's a low end model that uses AA size battery. The 500, 600, 700, and 800 are the low end series that are fat because of that, even in the old MDs they were fat. The NH1 and the NH900 i presume will be a lot slimmer. And a floppy drive is only magnetic. Here you have the laser too. It's mostly the laser that's thick. I've checked out the internals of my MT877, the laser was 5mm high, the magnetic head was just 1 or 2mm high. If they decided to put two sets of heads into a high-end recorder, like the 900 serie, i guess it would make it as fat as a 600 serie. Not very pretty. And i don't know how much more power it would consume if it had two heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breepee Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 That the way I like it! My entire collection in pcm on a few discs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted June 18, 2004 Report Share Posted June 18, 2004 That the way I like it! My entire collection in pcm on a few discs!amen. Been doing that already with DVD with several albums ripped (losslessly) to each DVD disc for use on the PC. Would be nice to see it in a compact portable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazeybt1 Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 2 magnetic heads n 2 optical pick ups sounds cumbersum but leaving it just as is n just making the disc capable of being inserted on both sides is very possible n just as with the double layer disc the drives that read them don't have lens both above n below..u still gotta turn the disc over to read the other side.. n about this blu ray VS MO ..that's no biggie... they could have 2 lens in the unit 1 for blu ray n 1 for mo n have 1 magnetic head capable of working with both..(i got that idea after seeing 2 different lens inside of a portable Sony DVD player with thr lens side by side don't know what's the reason but i it's obvious they serve different functions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Sony should pursue HDMD as a media for storage. I work on servers, and see SO many backup devices fail, as most are tape based. I think it's time to move away from tape, to MO. A 48GB capacity MD sized disc would work GREAT for that, as long as the write speeds aren't too slow.Seen these yet? http://www.sony.net/Products/MO-Drive/ProDATA/ 23GB per disc with blistering transfer rates. Not cheap, tho. Do I want one? Hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazeybt1 Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 hmm... don't u find the catridges look a lot like the PSP catridges.. i wonder y? P.S i can't find a link to the catridge pics but if u check IGN u'll c it somewhere.. :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Seen these yet? http://www.sony.net/Products/MO-Drive/ProDATA/ 23GB per disc with blistering transfer rates. Not cheap, tho. Do I want one? Hell yes.Not MO, it's a very fault resistent/tolerant optical system meant for a "professional" application. I doubt that these technologies will be used for MD, though another format/media probably isn't out of question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breepee Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 That's just standard Blue Ray discs.http://www.sony.net/Products/MO-Drive/ProD.../faq/index.html Q. Is this Blu-ray Disc technology? A. No. It has been specially engineered for professional use. Q. Why wasn't Blu-ray Disc technology used for these professional drives? A. Because professional users require higher transfer rates than those available with Blu-ray Disc technology. You'll also notice it's 23.3GB storage, as opposed to the single-layer 25GB or double layer 50GB in Blu-Ray. It also can't read CD or DVD, so far from standard, even tho some of the technologies used are similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirpilf Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 there would be no point of having such high capacity with a removeable disc for portable music players. as a storage device it would make sense but who has 48 gb of music. nobody would ever have a need to even buy a 2nd disc. i just hope sony sticks with Hi-MD and makes a whole line of products like car stereos and what not and i will stick with it because its enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 there would be no point of having such high capacity with a removeable disc for portable music players. as a storage device it would make sense but who has 48 gb of music. nobody would ever have a need to even buy a 2nd disc. 48GB is not so hard to fill up with CD-quality uncompressed linear PCM files (as god intended) :cool: But why stop at music? One format for everything also sounds nice. Surround sound, video, audio, data back-up, with each different device only 'using' what it sees and is designed to run. That would be nice. There is no such thing as too much storage, IMO. If anything, it will bring in more advanced quality formats to the masses as opposed to some of what we're seeing now... I just hope that one day we can stop making sacrifices with sound (mp3, atrac, ogg, etc) for the sake of a little convenience, due to high media costs, size and/or portability. That day is slowly coming... Then sound (and video, and data storage, and whatever) can go forward into higher resolutions and capabilities with virtually no 'cost' and be used for everything from audiophile systems to portables equally, not constrained by our current storage, size and cost limitations. There will be plenty of new formats overtaking MiniDisc if MD doesn't move forward. Sony knows this. Their competitors know this. That's why we see major new formats every few years. Everyone's interested in leading the next big wave of cool tech that catches on with the public. 1GB on Hi-MD sounds pretty tasty compared to what came before, especially now that linear PCM is in the bag. But it will be positively primitive and severely lacking in the not-too-distant. Storage is moving quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbonewell Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Just a thought.... Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the reasons that MD and HiMD have been hobbled as a truly flexible format for free transfer of music is to do with internal restrictions imposed by Sony to satisfy its music publishing arm. Perhaps Blue ray DVD could offer the corp a way out? As it is a new technology it may not have the same restrictions built in (though I should imagine they probably already thought this one through). A 48GB interchangeable and rewritable media format would blow fixed hard drive players out of the water - get the transfer speeds to a decent rate (and allow unrestricted, two-way transfer BTW) and perhaps develop dedicated portable music, video or data recorder players (or combinations of these). The only thing is that MD would be effectively become a redundant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breepee Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 there would be no point of having such high capacity with a removeable disc for portable music players. as a storage device it would make sense but who has 48 gb of music. nobody would ever have a need to even buy a 2nd disc. I would DEFINITLY go for such large amounts of space to store my music in CD quality (FLAC or something like that to gain some extra space). And with SACD on the doorstep there might be need for a large amount of space to preserve the original quality. No, I like it a lot. The more space, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbonewell Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 high capacity for quality add a bit of flexibility; data storage and back up functionality - my dream portable multimedia device! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAjEsTiC Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 yup i agree...that's gonna be one sweet portable floppy disk replacement for my laptop in future... :happy: but for the time being the Hi-MD would do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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