Boot from Hi-MD?

[lsainsbury]

You know you can boot from USB?

Does anybody here think it's possible to boot from Hi-MD?

:wacky:

[jadeclaw]

Well, that is something one has to try out.

Since Hi-MD is driverless like a USB-Stick,

I guess it should work.

However, booting via USB is usually limited to Computers younger than one year.

I've had to replace my old Mainboard after only one year of use and that one had no USB-Boot, my new one has a wide range of choices.

[lsainsbury]

Correct - you need to have a PC BIOS that supports booting from the USB port - ok it might be a bit slow, but think of the posibilites!

Lee

[Christopher]

Linux, anyone? :happy:

You guys should try and get someone who has a NH600 to try this, if possible..

[The_Stamp]

im up for the task, as im going to be returning it right befor eth 30 days are up so i can get my 700. i never installed linux before. (ive installed 2000 and xp enough for two people )

[ksandbergfl]

Well, that is something one has to try out.

Since Hi-MD is driverless like a USB-Stick,  

I guess it should work.  

However, booting via USB is usually limited to Computers younger than one year.

Here's a company that makes bootable USB pen drives. Shouldn't be too hard to do the same with HiMD.

http://www.embeddingwindows.com

[evan]

Has anyone actualy tryed this? does anyone know of a good linux distro or anything to use?

[ROMBUSTERS]

a

Edited January 9, 2008 by ROMBUSTERS

[1kyle]

I'm looking at the "Boot image" created on the Minidisc. -- It's possible that it might use a file system not recognized by Windows / Linux so unless a driver is loaded the computer won't be able to read the disc.

(I've got a Bartpe Windows system on it so I'll try when I can get to the machine with a bootable USB option on it). Link to BARTPE Windows recovery stuff is :

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

However even if this is the case it should still be possible to make a bootable floppy (or CD) which could load the Minidisc driver and then continue the rest of the start up by loading the OS (Windows etc) from the USB.

I'm going to try this on a machine where I haven't installed ANY of the Sony software to check whether the actual minidisc can be read by normal OS utilities like Windows explorer. I know I'll have to format the Disc FIRST on the system with the Sony Software.

Some Linux gurus might have already been able to boot a minidisc -- these guys seem to have more knowlege at writing device drivers etc etc.

Cheers

-K

[Andy]

I don't think it should need any special knowledge. If you want to do a quick test, then you can try "Damn Small Linux" (just because the download is only 150MB) and see if that boots. If it does and you want to try something bigger and better, then Knoppix or simplyMEPIS are two which seem to get reasonable reviews.

I've got simplyMEPIS running on this computer, but am having sound card issues with it right now, so I'm not using it at the moment. Ubuntu is also shaping up quite nicely and has a liveCD available.

[Latexxx]

I remember that somebody claimed having installed OsX onto his/her md and having booted his mac using it. No device drivers are required on any platform because hi-md appears as standard mass storage device like memory cards and usb memories.

[tibobe]

Yo ! I'm a french guy, so my english won't be very good..but I'll make the possible !

(I own a NH1)

http://www.mdfr.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13287 Here I thank I was the first who test to put a Linux on a Hi-MD, 'cause I hadn't already found anything on the web.

I don't manage to put Flonix..but the explication is that I'm not a "Professional of Linux" (globally, I never have a Linux !)

Recently I test to put Shinux which seems to be better than Flonix..

But evertime, the problem : "boot on the Hi-MD"..

- puting a syslinux image with NTRawrite, I've a message like that :

"Could not find the whole boot sector"

- with WinImage, I don't know the "format" I have to choose.. I would like to have a "boot image of HiMD"

- with HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool, when I try to Format, I've this error : "Device is write-protected" in spite of the "white button" of writing protection isn't "closed"..

..So I think it's not possible to boot on the HiMD..but it might be possible to boot with a Disk or a CD, and select the USB "Sony HiMD" to launch an OS..

Pleeaaase Help ME ! LOL

[Christopher]

Perhaps it's the motherboard you're employing. Most newer generation motherboards [nForce 3/etc and beyond] can boot straight from USB devices.

[Latexxx]

Tibobe, try dd.

[1kyle]

Booting a version of DOS with a USB driver on it DOES work -- I managed then to load a minidisc with BartPE windows system on it.

I booted Dos from a CD-RW which then loaded my Windows PE system from the USB device ( i.e the Minidisc) -- I've got no FDD on this system so I'm messing around with CD-RW's for the DOS boot. My MOBO supports USB booting -- and I've no problem booting a 512MB Camera Compact Flash card or al old IBM Microdrive (now Hitachi makes them)

Booting direct from the minidisc gave a couple of errors -- boot process starts OK then system stops. Taking a system dump shows that my Boot image on the MD is not correct -- I create the boot sector via Nero "Create Bootable CD" -- It's something to do with HD emulation / boot sector address and number of sectors -- need further info.

I need to look at the difference between booting the Microdrive and the Minidisc -- but I'm winning.

The Minidisc will be a great way to make a recovery / restore program.

After a bit more computer "Geekdom" researching I'll be able to post instructions on what you need to do to boot up your Minidisc -- assuming your MOBO can support USB booting.

Note if you do use a USB device like a CF card or a microdrive which is read via a reader rather than plugged directly into the computer's USB port you need to ensure that the reader doesn't need any drivers otherwise it won't work.

Most readers that are used with Windows XP work fine -- no special drivers required.

For Windows 2000 or that simply HORRIBLE Windows NEANDERTHAL Windows NT I don't think it'll work as drivers need to be loaded for both USB and the reader.

Cheers

-K

[Latexxx]

For Windows 2000 or that simply HORRIBLE Windows NEANDERTHAL  Windows NT I don't think it'll work as drivers need to be loaded for both USB and the reader.

You don't need an operating system which supports usb to boot from usb. It is enough that your bios supports booting from usb. On the other hand, it is pretty hard to create a bootable usb memory if your os doesn't support usb. :grin:

[ksandbergfl]

Has anyone booted anything from HiMD yet? Just wondering....

[1kyle]

Boot finally works from a Minidisk -- you need to ensure that you have a HI-MD unit as the non HI-MD units don't operate in 'Data Mode'.

Set your Boot option to USB and it's fine.

I've got a 220 MB Bartpe type of Windows recovery --works fine and even has Network and Internet access. Runs entirely from the Minidisc --so you can use it even if your hard disk is totally trashed --and of course you can then run a recovery --I'm using Acronis True Image for "imaging" a windows partition which can be restored from DVD's or whatever (http://www.acronis.com)

This disk I've created has a windows PE type of system on it, Firefox Mozilla web browsing, a file manager, Disk and Partition utilities -- Partition Magic and Acronis True Image, winzip, a pdf reader, Ws_ftp, network access including a LAN, and cd/dvd burning software. --works brilliantly.

When you create the boot disc ensure you set for the boot option the following :

nr of sectors to 4

NO Emulation

If you are using Nero to create the boot disk you'll see this in the Boot options You'll also need the boot image but look at the PE builder site --quite easy to follow instructions.

My previous post has the link to the Bartpe site.

Cheers

-K

Edited July 16, 2005 by 1kyle

[1kyle]

In addition to the "basic" Windows system described above I've also got Linux to boot from the minidisc -- I've managed to boot SUSE 9.3 Pro (You'll have to keep the size down to a mazimum of around 800 MB if you want to boot from the Minidisc and not use anything from the installed hard discs)

With both systems (Windows / Linux) all the other peripherals attached to the system are available after the OS has been booted up.

As before your BIOS will have to have USB boot enabled. If your BIOS doesn't support this then see if there is a BIOS update for your board. If there is then the utility will "flash" it for you --simple process BUT FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY.

You can also make a bootable Windows install disk -- "Slipstream" your service pack 2 files to your Windows CD by copying your CD to a hard disk and running the slipstream procedure. Extract the boot image with Magic ISO or whatever from the Windows CD -- it'll be named something like bootsect.bin / bootsect.img / Microsoft.img

A bit of googling will lead you to the links (you need several since what you are doing is actually making a Bootable Disk and not a Bootable CD).

Cheers

-K

Edited July 16, 2005 by 1kyle

[ROMBUSTERS]

a

Edited January 9, 2008 by ROMBUSTERS

[1kyle]

awesome! not that it's very practical, well I guess in systems that have no CD-ROM drive it could be of use. How slow is it to boot up? Im thinking quite slow

←

As it runs from the Minidisc --quite slow -- but it's great if you need to recover your system --saves carrying DVD's around.

(The same BartPE disc run from a CD or DVD is actually very slow as well -- you are trying to run a "Windows" type system from a slow device without using any hard disk activity at all --- much much slower of course than a hard disk but who cares if it recovers your system --and of course I was trying this on a laptop with only 512 GB of memory. A decent desktop with 2 GB RAM would be better of course. -- The OS will "page itself in and out" of RAM which is why it's fairly slow at startup).

The Linux system boots faster --but that's the design difference between Windows and Linux.

These type of systems are really only useful for "Disaster Recovery" or "Bare Metal" recovery type of situations.

BTW it's always a good idea to separate your OS from your data so with Windows partion your disk into C for Windows , D for Data (E,F etc if you want to seggregate more)

With Linux / Unix type systems you can also physically partition the disk into /dev/hda1, /dev/hda2 etc -- might be /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2 depending on your actual hardware configuration.

Cheers

-K

[MDX-400]

As before your BIOS will have to have USB boot enabled.

Hmm booting from Hi-MD eh? Interesting that it can be done... I'm curious as to know what you set the BIOS at to boot from it... Can you also boot from a USB flash drive on your PC?

Just asking becuase my PC has a few USB boot options, including USB-FDD, USB-HDD and USB-ZIP and also a "Boot Other Device" option at the end (either enabled or disabled).

I tried before to boot from a flash drive (a Sandisk Cruzer Mini) but none of the options ever worked for it. I'm wondering if some BIOSes allow for booting from USB Mass Storage (what flash drives usually show up as) and/or what the Hi-MD shows up as, as a USB device to the computer.

(I don't have a Hi-MD unit to try myself but I was just curious that's all ).

[1kyle]

Hmm booting from Hi-MD eh?  Interesting that it can be done...  I'm curious as to know what you set the BIOS at to boot from it...  Can you also boot from a USB flash drive on your PC? 

Just asking becuase my PC has a few USB boot options, including USB-FDD, USB-HDD and USB-ZIP and also a "Boot Other Device" option at the end (either enabled or disabled).

I tried before to boot from a flash drive (a Sandisk Cruzer Mini) but none of the options ever worked for it.  I'm wondering if some BIOSes allow for booting from USB Mass Storage (what flash drives usually show up as) and/or what the Hi-MD shows up as, as a USB device to the computer.

(I don't have a Hi-MD unit to try myself but I was just curious that's all ).

←

I've got a MSI motherboard in this series MS-6728 (865PE Neo2-PS, 865PE Neo2-PLS, 865PE Neo2-PFIS2R / 865G Neo2-PFS, 865G Neo2-PLS) Not sure of the exact number but it's a NEO2

At boot time ENSURE the USB device is plugged in

Enter DEL or whatever your computer needs to get into the BIOS selections (often called SETUP)

You'll find somewhere in the options a BOOT menu.

The later BIOS'es will have a USB option and if your device has been plugged in it will find it --for example it will shoa a USB external storage disk for example if it's plugged in.

Ensure that the Boot selection choses this option BEFORE IDE (Hard Disk) , LAN or other devices.

There's nothing wrong with this --when the device is not connected / not found boot will then try the next device selected in the list.

Easy really

(Older motherboards won't necesssarily have a USB boot option but anything available in the last 2 years or so should).

Now to make the device actually load an Operating System (Windows / Linux etc). u need to do a little work by creating a boot sector and install an OS on it.

Here's a good start which should guide you through the process.

http://www.weethet.nl/english/hardware_bootfromusbstick.php

Have fun

Cheers

-K

[ksandbergfl]

When you create the boot disc  ensure you set for the boot option the following :

nr of sectors to 4

NO Emulation

If you are using Nero to create the boot disk you'll see this in the Boot options 

How do you use Nero to create the boot disk? As far as I can tell, Nero can only create a bootable CD? How do you make Nero write a boot image to a USB mass media device?

thanks

[emeb]

I haven't had any luck whatsoever booting off of my MZ-NHF800. I've got two systems:

* an AthlonXP with a 3-year old mobo that has USB-ZIP as a boot option

* an Athlon64 with a 2-week old mobo that has USB-ZIP, USB-CDROM and USB-Floppy as boot options.

Neither of these systems can boot off of the MD with any of the USB options, although I've reformatted the disc and tried installing both a bootable MS-DOS and a bootable Linux system. They don't even seem to see the disc - on one of the systems it doesn't even start spinning until after the system has given up.

I tried following the instructions on the weethet.nl site without any noticable differences.

[garcou]

How do you use Nero to create the boot disk? As far as I can tell, Nero can only create a bootable CD? How do you make Nero write a boot image to a USB mass media device?

thanks

I have the same question for you 1kyle.

Can you give more explanation ? than you.

[LupinIV]

I did try several times and always had problems with the boot sector on the MD. I was trying to actually install linux formatting the disk as linux file system.

I suspect that the phantom disc area we all suspected existing on the MDs might be part of the problem.

I believe that linux distributions that boot/reside on a FAT32 may work better. I do remember somebody succeding.

Search the forum.

Edited November 23, 2005 by LupinIV

[garcou]

I did try several times and always had problems with the boot sector on the MD. I was trying to actually install linux formatting the disk as linux file system.

I suspect that the phantom disc area we all suspected existing on the MDs might be part of the problem.

I believe that linux distributions that boot/reside on a FAT32 may work better. I do remember somebody succeding.

Search the forum.

Actually 1kyle pretends he successfully boot from himd (look his posts above).

but I don' t understand how he could make Nero make a boot usb disc not a boot CD

If you can give us more information , 1kyle, it would be great. thanks again

Edited November 23, 2005 by garcou

[brendangillatt]

How did you get suse to boot? it uses a Syslinux bootloader that needs a 512 byte cluster size - hard drive type not 2048 that MD uses???

Oh well I'm gonna have a go with BartsPE

[1kyle]

You don't need an operating system which supports usb to boot from usb. It is enough that your bios supports booting from usb. On the other hand, it is pretty hard to create a bootable usb memory if your os doesn't support usb. :grin:

Not quite true.

For Booting a computer you need to execute an instruction at a specific point in memory (the BIOS will do this).

When you switch on the computer the CMOS is read (this holds the BIOS settings such as the BOOT device sequence etc).

Depending on the CMOS settings the computer will then start "The BOOTSTRAP".

This instruction normally tells the computer to read one sector of a disk into memory at location XXXX amd then start executing the instruction at XXXX which then loads the rest of the OS ("Bootstrapping").

However the bootstrap loader (that's the bit of code read into memory by the first Disk sector read) must have the ability to read the rest of the OS into memory which requires that the BIOS has the USB drivers built in or the driver must be loaded by the first sector read.

Most USB bootable motherboards will be OK with Windows XP. Linux will probably need the drivers loaded at boot time but as it usually makes an image in RAM before the kernel probes the hardware the USB drivers will have to be available after the first sector read of the USB device by the BIOS so the "Bootstrap loader" which is loading the OS can access the device.

If you specify NO emulation, and Nr of Sectors 4 when creating your bootable USB the OS should load. You need to extract a valid boot sector for the OS you are loading.

You can do this with ISOBUSTER or another program which can read a RAW ISO.

(Extract it from a bootable CD or DVD).

BTW Using a MD to load an OS won't be the fastest system on the planet.

A USB stick works just fine with some motherboards.

I'm experimenting booting from a Mobile Phone with an embedded memory stick.

Cheers

-K

Cheers

-K

[bendany]

Not quite true.

For Booting a computer you need to execute an instruction at a specific point in memory (the BIOS will do this).

When you switch on the computer the CMOS is read (this holds the BIOS settings such as the BOOT device sequence etc).

Depending on the CMOS settings the computer will then start "The BOOTSTRAP".

This instruction normally tells the computer to read one sector of a disk into memory at location XXXX amd then start executing the instruction at XXXX which then loads the rest of the OS ("Bootstrapping").

However the bootstrap loader (that's the bit of code read into memory by the first Disk sector read) must have the ability to read the rest of the OS into memory which requires that the BIOS has the USB drivers built in or the driver must be loaded by the first sector read.

Most USB bootable motherboards will be OK with Windows XP. Linux will probably need the drivers loaded at boot time but as it usually makes an image in RAM before the kernel probes the hardware the USB drivers will have to be available after the first sector read of the USB device by the BIOS so the "Bootstrap loader" which is loading the OS can access the device.

If you specify NO emulation, and Nr of Sectors 4 when creating your bootable USB the OS should load. You need to extract a valid boot sector for the OS you are loading.

You can do this with ISOBUSTER or another program which can read a RAW ISO.

(Extract it from a bootable CD or DVD).

BTW Using a MD to load an OS won't be the fastest system on the planet.

A USB stick works just fine with some motherboards.

I'm experimenting booting from a Mobile Phone with an embedded memory stick.

Cheers

-K

Cheers

-K

after reading your posts (using search function. read your whole posts about boot from minidisc)

I still cannot understand how you did it.

just a simple question: do you really boot from hi-md?

if the answer is yes, can you descript how to do that?

thanks. ;-)

[garcou]

I asked the same to 1kyle some month ago, but he didn't answer clearly how he used Nero to put the image on the himd.

My computer can boot from usb,no problem. But to create a bootable image on himd (not on CD!), I still wonder!

[bendany]

I asked the same to 1kyle some month ago, but he didn't answer clearly how he used Nero to put the image on the himd.

My computer can boot from usb,no problem. But to create a bootable image on himd (not on CD!), I still wonder!

as far as i know, Hi-MD is recognized as an USB-CD by my notebook(ibm x31) bios. when I power up

my notebook, and press F12 to select a boot device.

but when you enter windows xp, Hi-MD is recognized as a USB-STORAGE. just like a usb-stick.

when I mount Hi-MD under Linux, it shows that bytes per sector is 2048, not as normal 512.

I think Hi-MD is a special usb device.

unfortunately, I cannot get more information about Hi-MD usb interface. google only tells me

something I don't interest.

[yoda_143]

I still don't get how to clone/create bootsectors on the Hi-MD to make it bootable. I extraced the data from a Linux LiveCD on a Hi-MD, now how can I get proper bootsectors on it?

[vitvip]

Hi!

I'd say this is at least not polite. Claiming it's possible and instead of answering very certain questions providing links to vast and very loosely related subjects.

Anyway, anybody had more luck recently? I guess it's still up to the question: how to format HiMD and how to transfer bootsectors onto it? (I tried mkbt, HP utils - no luck)

Regards,

Vitaly

[garcou]

Hi!

I'd say this is at least not polite. Claiming it's possible and instead of answering very certain questions providing links to vast and very loosely related subjects.

Anyway, anybody had more luck recently? I guess it's still up to the question: how to format HiMD and how to transfer bootsectors onto it? (I tried mkbt, HP utils - no luck)

Regards,

Vitaly

1kyle said he boot successfully from himd but never clearly explained it....

[timonoj]

Well in any case i wouldn't try it. Loading a linux image from a CD takes its time (~4min), in which the unit is spinning at maximum speed and u can hear the reader head travelling from one side to another of the cd. So, it moves a lot. I think it could be something bad for a MD unit...

[vitvip]

Well, I thought the point was booting, not running an OS from minidisc. I mean, booting DOS or even Windows setup CD would be great to install OS on PCs with no CD-ROM and FDD (I have a lot of such machines). One can use USB flash drive for that, but (1) I don't have one and (2) with flash you have to backup its contents, reformat, put boot image, then vice verca.

[Tokend]

To you people who are complaining about the quantity and/or quality of information given by 1kyle and other posters: LIGHTEN UP!!!

"I asked the same to 1kyle some month ago, but he didn't answer clearly..."

"just a simple question: do you really boot from hi-md? if the answer is yes, can you descript how to do that?"

"'I'd say this is at least not polite. Claiming it's possible and instead of answering very certain questions providing links to vast and very loosely related subjects"

I have read this thread, and I find the information presented by 1kyle very helpful and useful. For your information, setting up an alternative boot device is a complex process. There are tools that make the process easier, but it's not as simple as dragging and dropping a file, as you guys seem to expect. Furthermore, the particulars vary with your particular machine and circumstances.

Geesz. What do you want the guy to do, write you a detailed, custom manual that explains step-by-step exactly how to create a boot disk that covers YOUR particular circumstances?

I think that you are the ones being impolite. Why don't you try appreciating what you are given instead of running off at the mouth about others' impoliteness?

There. I just had to say that.

[vitvip]

I have read this thread, and I find the information presented by 1kyle very helpful and useful.

Tokend, reading your post one can draw a conclusion that you haven't succeeded in booting from Hi-MD (or even haven't tried to). If so, this is a measure of how helpful and useful 1kyle's information was. IMHO, this information was simply misleading.