Hi-MD Sound Quality

[skyther]

Seems that there are a good share of people with less than half a brain. :happy:

Seriously, I find it amazing that there are people who actually do believe Sony's BS.

[dex Otaku]

I find the same with most companies, really.

Which is why it pays to be an informed consumer.

Which is why places like this are so important for spreading information to people in general.

[deafplayer]

Are you saying an Audigy will do? I'm afraid not. And yes they are. Pro cards are pro cards. You see a lot of consumer standard cards with 'pro features', but features != components.

wont do for what? audiophile level listening? or for skyther? of course not, i wasn't trying to imply that

but the headphone amp on an audigy 2s drive bay drives my headphones better, with sharper sound, than any portable ive used them with

and consumers who want to spend more money on something more impressive than a soundblaster do buy low end cards from "pro" brands

its not unheard of

and most "pro features" on consumer cards not only mean not pro components but not really pro features anyway

No. Using poor equipment to master the recording will result in the track clipping earlier. I've had tracks which are not particularly loud, but have telltale signs that they've been recording using very poor equipment and will clip throughout 80% of the track.

when you say clip do you actually mean clip, as in the signal from the cd is too high? or just that its brutally compressed?

and just because the end product doesn't sound loud to you doesn't mean it wasn't engineered with the levels too high

No it doesn't? How can you mark a reference point without knowing what it is? Asking for a comparison to a PC sound card is the same as asking for a comparison with anything else he has. You're asking for a sound judgement which doesn't need a reference point. (Hypothetically speaking) If I tell you the NH1 sounds sharper and bassier than my Revo, you're going to take it as the NH1 sounds sharp and bassy while ignoring all references to my Revo, because you wouldn't know how my Revo sounds like.

he told me what it was when he answered

are you saying that when reviews compare equipment to other equipment, anything they refer to that i haven't personally heard is useless?

thats ridiculous

and besides there was a good chance that ive heard his soundcard or something similar enough

1. A consumer sound card *IS* cheap. The most popular add on cards cost around USD50. You're comparing it to a product that costs around 6 times as much.

as you pointed out, the earphones hes using are *NOT* cheap.

i did *NOT* know at the time that he had integrated sound

and even now that i *DO* its helpful

i could personally listen to a VIAO that my friend has, it woudl be very easy to find out how simliar the soundcards are

or, more to the point of why i wanted to know, and like ive said before, just getting an idea of how it compares to a range of products, some of which im more familiar with than others, is helpful

thats why reviews compare it to other products

authors dont expect you to own or have experience with everything they mention

4. Your argument re. consumer vs professional sound cards is void. Consumer sound cards aren't known for sound quality, and hardly anyone will have a professional sound card, period.

no, i know enough people, non-professionals, with professional sound cards and equipment

if people know what they're looking for and have the money they wont limit themselves to "consumer" brands

Your points about the fact that "there are good sound cards that are used to record what you listen to" is irrelevant to this argument. You obviously didn't expect someone to compare Hi-MD with a card of that calibre.

my point was that there are good quality sound cards, to counter when you implied that they all suck

i thought it was quite possible that he had a good sound card

5. You cannot establish a reference point without knowing what it is.

i found out what it is. he told me.

Sound cards can sound as poor as a $10 radio to hi-fi setups that cost a few grand. Again, you are *expecting* a comparison with a generic sound card, which even that can have fluctuating qualities, and telling me about the quality of pro cards.

no thats *not* what i was *expecting*

he could easily be a sound hobbyist, who knows? enough people on here probably are

and i know enough people with pro sound equipment

but like ive been saying it doesn't even need to be good to be a reference point.... yeah you kind of ignored that point

but i didn't know how he'd compare them

i didn't know how much detail he'd give, what factors hed consider and discuss

i didn't know what equipment he had

i took all those risks

i live life on the edge... i took the risk of it being COMPLETELY USELESS

Say, do you know what a 'basshead' is? I can appreciate your point about using EQ to *compensate* for rolloffs and environmental disturbances, but how many people do just that?

....most people i know who are interested in sound quality and listening to music critically use EQs what you would consider the 'proper' way

its not that rare for people to "know what they're doing" with audio, and i assumed the people on this board, in a thread called HI-MD Sound Quality, are probably more likely than the average portable-using commuter

You agree that an EQ will reduce quality and fidelity, but don't tell me you've never heard of people cranking up the bass and treble with their LP2 tracks and saying that they're listening to really good quality stuff, when they don't really know because they've never listened to real quality?

so what if some people use it that way?

and ive never encountered any basshead who claims to be talking about quality in the same way that pretentious messageboard aristocrats like you do

their music sounds better to them and thats what they care about and usually all they claim to care about

they dont claim it has better fidelity or imaging or presence... if they did use the word "quality", and i dont even remember that happening, i would know that they dont mean the same thing you do, and i dont take it to mean that

Now you're getting to my point. Enjoyment != quality. Enjoyment is very, very subjective. If you're bored, listening to music might be enjoyable. If you've just come home from a 10 hour shift at work, and you're tired as hell, the same CD listened to may not be as enjoyable. Quality only becomes a tiny, not-very-influential part of all the factors that affect the enjoyment of your music.

your point was enjoyment=quality and is very very subjective........ seriously?

then why are you judging how correct others' conception of quality is?

[SoftMusicToMyEars]

Hi! This is my first post in this forum. :grin:

I've read about all the messages of the 2 Hi-MD general questions treads (that's a lot of pages!). First, I want to apologize for the occasionnal bad English, because I'm French.

Lately, I bought myself a pair of Shure E3c headphones, which I like very much for both the sound and the sound isolation. They were a little expensive, but I wanted to take a step towards better sound and be able to listen to my class lectures (I'm a University student) during my daily 3 hours in mass transportation.

The bass, while not amplified like most headphones (especially the other Sony I used before), is detailled and true-to-life. The mid and high ends are very nice too.

As I just mentionned, I record my classes so I need a mic jack in my MD player. I currently own a Sony MZ-N707 which does the job really well. However, I just finished my Microbiology studies and will start Pharmacy next semester.

For the following 4 years, I will have an average of 6-7 classes per semester. That means a lot of minidiscs! Thus, I was considering the Hi-MDs for their storage capacity (I could have only a disc for each classes).

I don't really mind the sound quality when I listen to classes, but I don't want the SQ to be less good than the one I already have with my MZ-N707. That's why I am a little worried after reading this tread (well, part of it, because I got lost somewhere with all the technical vocabulary - while I like new tech toys, I'm not much of a technical person myself).

Do you think any of the Hi-MDs out there will sound as good, or hopefully surpass my MZ-N707? I was considering either the 700, the 900 or the NH1 (but for this last one, I'm worried about the battery duration, because there is not external AA and I would be VERY pissed off to miss part of the class due to the battery dying while recording). Recording usually takes a lot of juice, but that's a bummer, because even myself can't resist the cool factor... :love:

Can someone help me clear things out?

[Happy Hopping]

If you do record lecture, I would make sure your prof. doesn't know, as some prof. wouldn't even allows it.

Their concern is that you can sell those lecture in the internet and noone needs to pay for classes at university any more.

So I would just try to hide the mic.

As to storage, if you download all your stuff from MD to your PC, then you free up those MD.

[SoftMusicToMyEars]

Hi! I'm at University of Montreal. Here, a lot of people record lectures with different media. (We are very few with MD players though.)

Actually, I usually ask teachers permission to record and I have yet to meet one who refused. As for uploading from MD players to PC, there are so many different frustrating issues with this that I will not even start on the subject.

I do not want to diverge from the original subject, i.e. sound quality of the Sony hi-md players. Can anyone help me based on my previous message?

Thanks! :smile:

[jadeclaw]

Expect the same quality:

SP == Hi-SP

LP4 == Hi-LP

The intermediate step of LP2 is gone from standalone recording, but lectures are usually speech only and Hi-LP can do that very well.

On top of that, you get Linear-PCM, providing full CD-Quality. You save on discs too, even when using standard discs. And uploading is easier as well.

All on one page:

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Hi-MD_Sony.html

[skyther]

wont do for what? audiophile level listening? or for skyther? of course not, i wasn't trying to imply that 

but the headphone amp on an audigy 2s drive bay drives my headphones better, with sharper sound, than any portable ive used them with

Did you not read what I said about power constrains? Obviously the Audigy drives headphones better. Just because it's got a higher output, does that mean better sound? For anyone who *cares* about sound quality, the Audigy 2 is not good. You obviously *care* or else you wouldn't be here. For the person who doesn't *care*, how the Hi-MD sounds is not going to matter at all.

and consumers who want to spend more money on something more impressive than a soundblaster do buy low end cards from "pro" brands 

its not unheard of 

and most "pro features" on consumer cards not only mean not pro components but not really pro features anyway

I didn't say anything about low end cards from "pro" brands. Did I not mention the RME and EMU? EMU = Creative, and a low end card trying to 'behave' like a pro (in terms of features) = Audigy. Whatever you're on about 'pro features' on consumer cards, I think you know that the Audigy DSPs are simply stripped down EMUs, so yes an Audigy will have some, or even quite a few, of the features that the EMU line has, but without the same quality components used in the EMU.

when you say clip do you actually mean clip, as in the signal from the cd is too high? or just that its brutally compressed? 

and just because the end product doesn't sound loud to you doesn't mean it wasn't engineered with the levels too high

When a track is mastered at loud levels and the peaks of the track go above 103dB on a CD, it will clip. When it is compressed, the dynamic range of the entire track is reduced which brings more parts of the track above 103dB, since the recording engineer will see this as an opportunity to raise the volumes further, leaving no overhead for peaks.

Clipping occurs only when the level exceeds 103dB, and unless the track was mastered at above that level, neither compression nor mastering will be an actual cause to clipping, but both will usually go hand in hand in a poorly mastered track.

he told me what it was when he answered 

are you saying that when reviews compare equipment to other equipment, anything they refer to that i haven't personally heard is useless? 

thats ridiculous 

and besides there was a good chance that ive heard his soundcard or something similar enough

Yes I am. If I told you the Cambridge Azur 640c CDP sounds brighter than the Marantz CD6000 OSE, would you have a clue on how that would sound? Or does that merely stay as a bunch of words to you?

When authors do reviews, they do comparisons with other *similar* products. The point here being similar products. Reference points are used because they give the reader a better idea of what they're comparing it to, as I've said before. I've yet to see anyone do a detailed review and have comparisons with a computer sound card. When I did the NH3D review, I compared it with my N10 (previous gen 'top' MD portable of the same company) and the DS8 (digital amp from another company), and all of them had something in common.

Let's see here. Your request for a comparison between the NH1 and a sound card makes even less sense than asking for a comparison with any CD player. You still don't get the fact that you ought to be a little more specific, don't you? The difference between CD players can be day and night, same goes for sound cards. Yet you're trying so hard to prove that whatever request you asked for made sense. How about this, why don't you just ask how the NH1 sounds like? Because your reference point doesn't make sense in the first place, different laptop models (even within the same brand) use different audio chipsets which result in different sound qualities, and there are way too many settings on a PC to even make it a fair comparison. You do know that the Audigy 2's rear channels supposedly sound better than the front channels, right? Stuff like that makes a difference, so what exactly is your point?

"Hi I would like to request for a comparison for a NH1 with your CD player", "Oh my cd player sounds better, it's a C333ES" - DUH. Trying to find a backup for your statements again; "my friends have pro sound cards, blah blah, I'd expect people in a place like this to have the same". Hey guess what? I could have played the fortune teller that time, the chances were 95% that the NH1 sounded better.

if people know what they're looking for and have the money they wont limit themselves to "consumer" brands

Do they sell professional sound cards at CompUSA or some other trash like that? :laugh:

Right. Keyword here being 'people'. 'People', as in the average Joe, regardless of his financial status, won't know what the heck M-audio or RME is. Maybe EMU, since they're a Creative subsidary and their range of products extends quite far out.

my point was that there are good quality sound cards, to counter when you implied that they all suck 

i thought it was quite possible that he had a good sound card

As above. Like I said, I could have played fortune teller/magic 8 ball and given you the answer. BTW, I didn't imply that they all suck, don't go stuffing words in my mouth now.

....most people i know who are interested in sound quality and listening to music critically use EQs what you would consider the 'proper' way

Heh. "Most people" makes it sound like many. You seem to know a lot of people, then.

and ive never encountered any basshead who claims to be talking about quality in the same way that pretentious messageboard aristocrats like you do

Nuh uh. I've yet to stick a label on you, and I don't see why you have the right to call me an 'aristrocrat'. Quite a lot of balls you have there. I've seen bassheads do their thing with their V700DJs. And chances are I've spent more time on audio forums than you have. So does your experience count in this regard? No.

your point was enjoyment=quality and is very very subjective........ seriously? 

then why are you judging how correct others' conception of quality is?

(Anyone who appreciates DT531s would probably get my point.)

Stuffing words in my mouth again? I said quality can affect the level of enjoyment or listening pleasure that one gets, but I never did equate one to the other. Baaad. Don't twist words around to give yourself an advantage.

Are you deliberately dropping the "sound" in front of quality? Quality is not measurable as a discrete number/unit, but that doesn't make it subjective. Sony EX71s give better sound 'quality' than stock earbuds, and E2c > EX71, so on and so forth. I'm not merely judging, anyone with experience with these products will tell you that. Why do you think our buddy here has E3cs, and makes it a point to announce that he has them? The moronic basshead is the idiot who comes on, says "MY V700DJ PWNZ ALL", when he has absolutely no experience with the 'all' in his statement. I've seen it happening, but you haven't. So why should your experience apply to me, and not vice versa?

[Andy]

your point was enjoyment=quality and is very very subjective........ seriously?

then why are you judging how correct others' conception of quality is?

Reread that paragraph, ignoring the "Enjoyment != quality." sentence.

"!=" is a symbol meaning "not equal to". Typically was mainly used by computer nerds as it is the symbol used in many programming languages. Lately, it has been used in other circles causing some good confusion, seeing as many people just ignore the "!" assuming it is a typo or redundant or something.

[Happy Hopping]

but lectures are usually speech only and Hi-LP can do that very well.

On top of that, you get Linear-PCM, providing full CD-Quality

But why would he need something of such high quality? Lectures are mono, it's one man talking, anything half decent mono recording mode to save disk space, and thus, the convenience of switching to different disc is a bonus.

There is no reason to record high quality if he can put all lectures, and for a full time university student, it is usually 4 - 5 lectures per semester, in one disc per day.

When I attended university, even w/ 6 classes per semester, 2 out of the 6 is on Tues/Thurs, whereas the other 4 is on M, W, F. So really it is only 4 hr. of recording per day.

With the storage spc. of the new Hi-MD, based on 3 hr. of lecture per classes, x 5 classes per semester, is only 15 hr. of lecture per week.

At ATRAC3plus/64kbps mode, he can easily do 34 hr.

===============

SoftMusic, on a minor note, when I attend intro on psych. as an option, the prof. stated at the beginning of the semester that no recording is attended. But he is the only one I met who even brought out the subject.

[jadeclaw]

But why would he need something of such high quality?

You are reading something into my message, that I didn't meant that way.

I mentioned it as a bonus, where that quality might be necessary. (Live recording/copying a CD).

[Latexxx]

This is little off-topic but matches the thread.

Atrac3plus @ 256 is clearly distinguishable from original and I even have proof. Check this.

[jadeclaw]

The dark side of lossy codecs...

Luckily, I don't have any music containing castanets...

But seriously, If you search long enough, you always find some music or combination of instruments, which makes a lossy codec fall flat on its nose.

I have had samples, that tripped up MP3 and WMA, others tripped up ATRAC...

Luckily, most codecs are now mature enough, so that this happens very seldom...

[bhangraman]

Hrmpf. I'm a student with a limited budget. Totally unfair indeed.

In which case, all the more reason to be more circumspect in your postings, no?

[Christopher]

I do not want to diverge from the original subject, i.e. sound quality of the Sony hi-md players.  Can anyone help me based on my previous message?

This is why posting a new thread would be much more effective then posting in a heavily-opiniated thread. Please do so, and welcome to the forums. :happy:

[skyther]

^^ Maybe. Thanks for the hint. :whatever:

SoftMusic, I'm not too clear about what you need. You say you are recording lectures, which should mostly consist of voice recording, so what exactly is the issue with quality? Personally I'd use LP4 or Hi-LP for voice recording as long as it whatever that's being said is comprehensible. I'd probably be more concerned with battery life as you said, since Hi-MDs don't sport very long recording times.

[Sbetsho]

skyter, I'm glad that I don't have such spoiled ears to not enjoy LP4/Hi-LP.

[skyther]

Okay, Hi-LP > LP4. Do you usually tell someone who's looking for higher quality to use Hi-LP?

Look above. It says "Hi-MD Sound Quality". Then read the thread starter's post.

Why are we talking about LP4, hmm?

[SoftMusicToMyEars]

Hi! First things first, I'm a she. I know it doesn't matter so much, but I'm not sure what I think about being called he. :rasp:

If you read my 1st post again, you will notice that I say that while recording lectures, I don't mind the SQ. BUT I think that spending 300$ canadian on headphones (E3cs) qualities me as someone who would like to achieve a better than average SQ.

The question is: when listening to MUSIC (I listen to many kinds of music: Radiohead, Grandaddy, Sigur Ros, Massive Attack, Portishead, Bjork...), because I use my MD player BOTH for recording lectures and listening to music, I want to know what were the original issues (those that started the post) with Hi-MD players, esp. the higher end Hi-MD players which I am considering to buy.

So, when listening to music taken from a CD and transfered on a Hi-MD media, will the sound quality with Hi-SP (you say that is equal to LP in sound quality?) be AS GOOD or BETTER than the one I am already getting?

The first person who wrote in this tread was using the same headphones that I have - E3cs - with a MZNH1 and was saying that the highs were tinny (hurting his ears) and that he had to turn them down with the EQ. I think he also had an issue with the bass, I don't remember what exactly. He or someone who wrote after that said something about the HD digital amp (which I'm not sound I understand how it works, even after reading info from a link on this forum) or that the digital amp didn't like the headphones.

If I'm about to spend this much money on a MD player, I like to know what to expect beforehand, esp. when some people seem to have issues with things that are important for me, and here that is SQ.

Thank you, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough the first time to make myself understood. I just don't want to make a big mistake, giving all my hard spent money to Sony if their new product isn't worth the hype it's getting from all directions.

[Ppk3000]

You should use Hi-SP encoding if you want the closest compressed replication of the original source.

[bhangraman]

I have the NH1, and NH700/900 are apparently on the way. If you're mainly playing back on the Hi-MD unit itself, it is unlikely that you'll notice the difference between Hi-SP and PCM. To this end, it's suggested that you use Hi-SP for your day to day music requirements. It is to all intents and purposes (castanets notwithstanding :grin: ) practically as good as PCM for general listening purposes. It is also more usable given the limited transfer rate of Hi-MD: transfers will take less time and you'll be able to get 6 albums on one Hi-MD, or a couple of albums and several hours of Hi-LP recording time.

If we're talking about ultimate sound quality (i.e. as in a broader choice of devices, not just Hi-MD), PCM recordings with the NH1 leaves something to be desired in terms of fidelity to the original.

[jadeclaw]

I'm through with testing SS 2.1 and I must say, things are improving on the codec side, in terms of stability too. I'll put that up in its own thread later today.

PCM recordings with the NH1 leaves something to be desired in terms of fidelity to the original.

When listening on the NH1 or also when listening to the uploaded file from the computer?

[grant420]

This post has been removed by a Administrator. Reason: Disrespectful comments towards a Moderator.

[Dr_What]

Please refrain from making such disrespectful, irrelevant comments on this board, no matter how true they may be.

[bhangraman]

I'm through with testing SS 2.1 and I must say, things are improving on the codec side, in terms of stability too. I'll put that up in its own thread later today.

When listening on the NH1 or also when listening to the uploaded file from the computer?

Yes, I mean listening from the NH1 vs iPod or the NJB3. In the context of a reply to the original poster, it was the only meaning it could have, I think you'll agree.

Haven't tried listening to the uploaded file on the PC as critically (and with as much gear) as I did with the downloads, I must say. I'll do that eventually. I've just removed my RME HDSP9632 pending a swap and comparison with the E-Mu 1212M, then an Aureon 7.1 to see what I'm giving up in terms of fidelity audio for gaming audio. I realised I need a soundcard I can actually play games on too I'll do the comparisons once the E-Mu is fitted or when the RME goes back in.

[deafplayer]

Haven't tried listening to the uploaded file on the PC as critically (and with as much gear) as I did with the downloads, I must say. I'll do that eventually. I've just removed my RME HDSP9632 pending a swap and comparison with the E-Mu 1212M, then an Aureon 7.1 to see what I'm giving up in terms of fidelity audio for gaming audio. I realised I need a soundcard I can actually play games on too I'll do the comparisons once the E-Mu is fitted or when the RME goes back in.

....what are the chances?!?

[SoftMusicToMyEars]

Hi again!

I wanted to thank you for the information you have provided me, but my question was more oriented on if the Hi-MD players themselves (especially the NH1, but also the cheaper models like the 700) produce a sound of good quality, compared to the sound my actual player, MZ-N707, delivers.

I'm using E3c headphones, and I was worried that the NH1 (with it's HD digital amp) was incompatible with these headphones, based on the first message of this tread.

Can anyone comment on that?

Now I know which compression to use, though. :smile:

[KJ_Palmer]

Don't worry, your E3c's will be fully compatible with the NH1 and any other Hi-MD player/recorder.

[bhangraman]

There are no incompatibilities between the E3c and the Hi-MD (or any other portable, for that matter).

I did the iPod vs NH1 comparison... so now there's a footnote, the MZ-N10 vs MZ-NH1 comparison.

(A word of warning: From what other N10 owners who have tried mine say, apparently I have a particularly good one. However, I didn't feel it was any significantly better than the other N-series MD's I had... which means that some N10's must have been really bad?)

I've spent some time comparing the output of the MZ-N10 and the MZ-NH1 using SP (N10) and Hi-SP (NH1) recordings as my base comparison point. The optical digital recordings on both machines were made from the same deck (the Sony SCD-XA777ES) and the comparison CD used for the in-depth testing was Diana Krall's A Night in Paris. I'm using the Etymotic ER-4S earphone out of the Headphone Out mode, and also the Stax Omega II's through the Line Out modes.

The HD digital amp definitely seems to smudge the highs a little, and balloon the lows. Staging seems unaffected. The overall performance seems to be infinitesimally woolier than the N10. I will stress that the differences are very small... but what it boils down to is that there seems to be no measurable improvement apparent with the HD digital amp in terms of sound quality. There is a slightly different character in the base sound, but rather than being able to clearly say 'it's better than the N10', I can find more ways of describing it as worse, or at least undesirably different.

Should people be worried? I don't think so... as I said elsewhere, in isolation it sounds pretty good. But in terms of the new hardware, I've said it before and I'll say it again... I would not read anything into the 'HD Digital Amp' moniker.

[skyther]

You know what? I'm really curious to compare my N10 with yours. Your observations are similar to mine, but the differences between both were in fact quite large.

Have you by any chance obtained a 'specially tweaked' review version of the N10? :rasp:

[bhangraman]

You know what? I'm really curious to compare my N10 with yours. Your observations are similar to mine, but the differences between both were in fact quite large.

Have you by any chance obtained a 'specially tweaked' review version of the N10? :rasp:

The particular N10 package I was given was a 'special', or rather unusual. There's some stuff that doesn't quite square with shipping N10's. PSU, remote, earphones, etc. These were all clearly replaced prior to shipping. However Sony would never specifically tweak a batch of players so that they sounded 'better'. Where did you buy your N10?

[skyther]

Hmm. They can tweak EU N10s to 2+2mW, so I wouldn't be too sure about that. Mine's from a local Sony retailer, one of the first AU batches which came in sometime around March last year. It sounds terrible, which is why I ended up getting a DS8 about 2 months later.

[SoftMusicToMyEars]

Hi!

When I said "incompatible" with the E3cs, I meant sound wise (highs that hurt ears, for example), not technically. Maybe in French it made more sense, sorry.

Bhangraman:

What do you mean by "I would not read anything into the 'HD Digital Amp' moniker."? When I read about the difference between lower end Hi-MD and higher end Hi-MD, I had understood people were saying that the higher end were supposed to sound better because of the HD digital amp. Do you think the MZ-NH700 would sound better since it doesn't use the HD digital amp? Or do you still think the NH1 is better, even if it has its issues?

Thank you! :happy:

[aeriyn]

Hmm. They can tweak EU N10s to 2+2mW, so I wouldn't be too sure about that. Mine's from a local Sony retailer, one of the first AU batches which came in sometime around March last year. It sounds terrible, which is why I ended up getting a DS8 about 2 months later.

I have a US model N10, and I thought it sounded as good or slightly better than the N505 I had, and about the same as my R900.

But I got to test a friend's DS8... I used an SP-recorded MD of Hamasaki Ayumi's album "RAINBOW" and played through the entire album on each MD unit. Headphones used on each unit were Sony MDR-E66s.

The DS8 blows holes into the N10. I thought it sounded good, but now it just sounds like mud to me.

[bhangraman]

What do you mean by "I would not read anything into the 'HD Digital Amp' moniker."?

As I said elsewhere, the primary reason to be of a digital amp in portable and other battery-powered equipment is power efficiency. It's also a nice selling point if you can talk up digital amp technology as better quality while extending battery life.

I don't believe there'll be much if any of a sonic difference in the core sound quality between an NH700 for example and the NH1. I'll be able to tell you this for sure when I receive the NH700 / 900. If I am wrong, if it is different and the NH700 sounds actually worse than the NH1, then it means that lower model Hi-MD sound quality would have taken a significant step back compared to MD given the results of my previous post. I do not believe Sony would do that. What all this comes down to is that the character of the sound has changed a little... it may be a more pleasing tone to many. But the quality has basically not changed that much, and the HD amp is not responsible for additional quality in any sense.

One thing I definitely don't know at this stage is how much difference there will be in terms of EQ and the (crappy anyway) 'virtual sound' capabilities between the digital and non-digital amped machines... but I would not expect a huge difference.

The E3c doesn't have an overtly sharp high frequency response. Their main fault is a pronounced midrange with some (the black tips in particular) tips, resulting in a nasal, harsh-edged sound on occasion. While it works very well for portable use, and the midrange does help to cut through background low-frequency noise, even then I sometimes found the midrange caused me concern. The EQ of the NH700 or the NH1 would be able to deal with this, so that's not a particular factor for the choice between the two. Look into the features between the NH1 and the NH700 (apart from the HD amp) and see whether it's worth it for you.

[aeriyn]

As I said elsewhere, the primary reason to be of a digital amp in portable and other battery-powered equipment is power efficiency. It's also a nice selling point if you can talk up digital amp technology as better quality while extending battery life.

Sharp's Auvi 1-bit Digital Amp actually DOES make a difference in terms of sound. It makes it sounds very good IMO. ^.^

[Seroka2]

Hi SoftMusictoMyEars,

I'm the guy who wrote the original post and I've been listening to my NH1 a lot more. I didn't mean to imply that it sounded bad. It just sounded a little more hmm, I guess the best word is metallic, than I'm used to since I usually listen to uncompressed music on good equipment. Despite everybody's claims that HI-SP 256 is nearly identical to CD, I really think there is a noticable difference. The issues I had are the same and a lot more noticable at lower bit rates. The original recording and type of music appear to make a big difference. Some CDs convert really well and sound very close to the original, while some don't work so well - its hard to tell what will convert well until its taken into sonicstage. The EQ can usually compensate for it, but I have to adjust it depending on what I'm listening to. In general, techno and dance work really well, but music with higher vocals sometimes sound tinny whereas uncompressed they sound a lot smoother. I noticed the same effect while listening to my friend's netmd 510.

[SoftMusicToMyEars]

Hi bhangraman and Seroka2!

Thank you so much for your replies, this was the kind of answer I needed. Since Sony has a return policy, I think that when the NH1 comes out, I'll buy both a NH700 and a NH1, and return the one I don't like.

If there isn't a difference in sound, then I think that I will return the NH1, because it's a lot more expensive and apart from the oh-so-cool design and the magnesium exterior (bites her tongue), I'm trying to convince myself that the cool factor isn't worth that much money.

Right?

Take care everyone, and I'll surely come back for a feedback! :grin:

[Qwakrz]

Ok, who thinks that the smooth good looks of the NH1 will win out if they sound the same?

[Christopher]

I'd go for the NH1 [actually, I'd do the NH900] over the NH700 - I imagine the functionality is just about superior in every way, considering build quality, stiffness of the NH700's on-unit rotary dial and other things. The remote for the unit isn't even a LCD one amongst other things. *shrug*