Suggested method for uploading recordings from Hi-MD

[dex Otaku]

This has come up several times already, and I've already posted it in another thread, but I'm doing it again under its own thread so it's easy to find. Perhaps this should be stickied?

After discussion with Jadeclaw and enough personal experience with my NH700 and SonicStage, this is the method I have settled on for transferring recordings from my Hi-MD to my computer..

First and foremost, it requires that you be using Total Recorder. It is available from High Criteria at a rather nominal cost of $11.95USD, which is well worth paying considering what it does.

The following assumes that you already have Total Recorder installed.

* Open both SonicStage [sS] and Total Recorder [TR]

* Plug in your Hi-MD via USB and insert the disc to copy tracks from. I'd suggest plugging it in to its AC adapter as well, if it's a model without a dock.

* Press record in TR

* In SS, play the track you wish to record from the Hi-MD itself. DO NOT TRANSFER THE RECORDINGS TO YOUR COMPUTER FIRST.

* Repeat as necessary to capture all your tracks in WAV format, making sure to save each track in TR and start a new one before continuing on with the next track in SS.

* If you are really paranoid, now would be the time to clean up the recorded tracks [removing glitches from beginning and end] and write them to CD-R as a backup. [Note: writing them to audio CD is far less reliable a backup method than as WAVs to CD-R, simply because of the nature of CD audio.]

* When you're done recording your tracks to WAV, THEN transfer the tracks using SS.

I also go so far as to rename tracks on the Hi-MD before uploading, and matching the names on disc/in SS to the ones I save from TR.

Please note as well that this isn't the -correct- way to do things. It's just the way I've figured is the safest at this point, since it's obvious that SS 2.1 has some rather nasty bugs that occasionally eat irreplacable tracks when you're trying to upload.

Edit: An alternate method, the one I actually use since I am long since accustomed to editing huge files, is to dump the whole disc in one go and then split the resulting single WAV file into tracks afterwards.

Edit: There's another alternative method - if your sound card driver includes a 'wave' option in the windows recording mixer, you can select that as your source and record in any application of your choosing - audacity, sound forge, cool edit, whatever - same as you would recording from an analogue source. You have to make sure that volume controls are all maxed [no attenuation, i.e. no DSP occurring] and that the record level control is at unity [no gain, no attenuation]. Recording in this case is still done all-digitally, and does not require having or using TR at all, though the chances of not getting a bit-for-bit copy are fairly high.

[dave_bass5]

Nice post dex, just one thing though. i know with my 900 the unit gets powered by the usb connection so the AC adapter is not needed. i would have thought this was true on all Hi-MD units with usb.

Sorry if im wrong

Dave.

[dex Otaku]

You're correct, but if your computer happens to BSOD and reboot in the middle of the Hi-MD being used, it loses power momentarily. It's just a safety measure.

[dave_bass5]

I understand dex, better to be safe than sorry.

Dave.

[Spare Tire]

When the md loses power, doesn't it switch to the batteries right away?

[dave_bass5]

Just noticed that my MZ-n1 is sitting in its charging standl, no battery in it (powered from the mains) with the pc connection showing and the pc is off. i guess there is still power going through the motherboard.

Ill try this with my NH900 later.

Dave.

[dex Otaku]

Woo. Kind of cool.

And yes, it should switch to batteries, Spare Tire. It's all just precautionary for those of us who are paranoid about losing data.

[novice64]

* In SS, play the track you wish to record from the Hi-MD itself. DO NOT TRANSFER THE RECORDINGS TO YOUR COMPUTER FIRST.

I can't see a way to do this.

Old MD disc: I get a message saying the sound will emerge from the minidisc's headphones, not the computer.

Hi MD disc: OK ... I see that this will work :rasp:

What will happen if I transfer the recording from the old format MD to SS? Answer fast!!! I just got my MZ-NHF800 and I'm burning up!

Thanks much

Sax Maam

[dex Otaku]

You cannot transfer recordings from standard-mode MDs digitally without a home deck with an optical output.

The only way to do this with your PC is by analogue means.

[hobgoblin]

Just noticed that my MZ-n1 is sitting in its charging standl, no battery in it (powered from the mains) with the pc connection showing and the pc is off. i guess there is still power going through the motherboard.

Ill try this with my NH900 later.

Dave.

yes, most atx type board have a small amount of current going to select parts of the board. the reason for this is to allow for software shutdown and similar (on a atx board the power button on the front is a low-current switch hooked to the moterboard, not a high-current one hooked directly to the power supply).

most like the power part of the usb ports are hooked directly to the main power path of the motherboard and can therefor get some juice of the psu even when the computer is "off". still we are only talking 12v at best. and the wattage i dont know.

[seeprompt]

Hi!

Thank you for your very informative post. I too am very interested in investing in a Hi-MD Walkman. But please bear with be as I attempt to enquire the followings.

1) Can I assume that when you state, “transfer”, you mean upload of the digital audio data via the USB cable at 100 times faster than real time? And not engaging the playback on the Hi-MD and record on the PC.

2) And if question number 1 is assumed accurately, is your analogue-recorded audio in ATRAC3 or PCM format in the Hi-MD Walkman.

3) Have you heard if it is possible to upload the analogue-recorded audio to PC and subsequently exporting the project as MP3 format? In which can be “transcoded” in to PCM or WAV format.

Thank you so much, in advance, for your kind attention.

[dex Otaku]

1) Can I assume that when you state, “transfer”, you mean upload of the digital audio data via the USB cable at 100 times faster than real time? And not engaging the playback on the Hi-MD and record on the PC.

2) And if question number 1 is assumed accurately, is your analogue-recorded audio in ATRAC3 or PCM format in the Hi-MD Walkman.

3) Have you heard if it is possible to upload the analogue-recorded audio to PC and subsequently exporting the project as MP3 format?  In which can be “transcoded” in to PCM or WAV format.

1) Did you actually read the post? Not to be rude, but if you'd actually read the post, you likely wouldn't have asked questions 1, 2, or 3. But.. oh well.

When I said transfer, especially in that line in bold, I think it was reasonably clear that I meant uploading the track via SonicStage. Especially since I specify there, "In SS, play the track from the Hi-MD itself. DO NOT TRANSFER [iT] FIRST."

2) Yes, recordings made from analogue on Hi-MD units themselves. Hence the line, "this is the method I have settled on for transferring recordings from my Hi-MD to my computer."

I usually use PCM but occasionally use Hi-SP for slightly less important things. Incidentally, the transfer rate with PCM is about 3x realtime. Extrapolating, 256kbps atrac3+ should transfer at roughly 16x. The 100x figure that Sony give is for 48kbps audio and is highly misleading.

3) Once again, did you even read the post? The point of the post is how to get your audio that you've recorded on Hi-MD onto your PC in WAV format.

No, there is no export mechanism in SonicStage for audio you've recorded yourself. It's not even possible at the moment to write [using SonicStage] the audio to CD [CD-DA] to then rip it back onto the PC with something else.

There is no simple 1-step method at the moment to get your audio off disc. Sony's WAV convertor will eventually make a 2-step process available, though until they fix the bugs in SonicStage this method will be completely unreliable and cannot be taken seriously by those of us who are making recordings that we cannot risk even a 2% chance [Jadeclaw's estimate] of the track being destroyed.

There will likely NOT be a way to upload to the PC as MP3 and then convert to WAV which would mean 1 or 2 generations of lossy encoding before you get to your audio, which would be a complete waste of time.

Once you have the WAV files as I've attempted to detail the process of creating, you can then edit and convert to MP3 as you see fit.

edit: God, was I ever bitchy this afternoon. Sorry.

[guru48]

Hey dex,

Will this work with Sound Forge 6.0 or do I need Total Recorder?

Peace, guru

[Latexxx]

Sound Forge will capture the saound as analog from sound card (IMHO). Total Recorder keeps it digital.

[dex Otaku]

Will this work with Sound Forge 6.0 or do I need Total Recorder?

If your sound card and its drivers offer a 'wave' option in the windows record mixer, you can record in digital using whatever application you prefer by choosing that as your source.

[reefbeef]

Dex or Kurisu or anyone,

It is my understanding that in addition to SS to play and Audacity (or TR) to record, a third software is needed to divide (or generally edit) the resulting .wav file and then burn it to CD. Is this correct or am I not finding editing tools in Audacity (I have only tried Audacity so far...)?

Also, I just invested in a new PC largely in part for making CD's from my Hi-MD (my last PC was so old it didn't meet SS min system req's). I would like to keep it clean and light on it's feet by not installing too much software. Does anyone have experience with both Audacity and TR that can suggest not bothering with TR? If I load it on my machine and try it for myself and find that I prefer Audacity, will uninstalling TR completely remove it with out leaving any leftover 'residue'?

Thanks...

[dex Otaku]

TR is very small, for one thing. For another, it is basically just a utility that allows you to record anything that you play through your sound card - it acts as a proxy between the actual sound card driver and whatever program you're plabing from. In other words, audio played from SonicStage gets routed through TR to be recorded by it, then out to your sound card.

TR is not for editing, though. You would use something like Audacity to edit the files recorded by TR, yes.

You would then use whatever CD writing software came with your drive or computer to create audio CDs with the tracks you've recorded.

To summarise, you:

1) Play through Sonicstage

2) Record using Total Recorder

3) Edit with Audacity [or Audition or Sound Forge or Protools.. the editor of your choice, in other words]

4) and burn your CDs with your choice of CD creation software [i'd recommend Nero]

[reefbeef]

Thanks for the clarification, Dex. Although, I still haven't figured out how to edit the wav file in Audacity. Any tips?

I have an old version of Wavelab. It's a very good program and is what I was using for making CD's from MD (pre Hi-MD). I'm gonna see if it's possible to use it for steps 2,3, and 4. Instead of using 3 different applications for these steps.

[dex Otaku]

Thanks for the clarification, Dex.  Although, I still haven't figured out how to edit the wav file in Audacity.  Any tips?

I have an old version of Wavelab.  It's a very good program and is what I was using for making CD's from MD (pre Hi-MD).  I'm gonna see if it's possible to use it for steps 2,3, and 4.  Instead of using 3 different applications for these steps.

You'll still need to use TR for step 2. Once you have the WAV file from it, you should be able to use Wavelab for the rest.

Exception: if your sound card has the option of selecting "Wave" as a source in the recording mixer, you can use Wavelab to record from it. I would still trust TR more though, unless you know exactly how to set everything to make sure you're not increasing or decreasing the volume unintentionally.

[reefbeef]

AHHH!

SS pauses on all the track marks!!! I have them every 3 mins just for easy navigation on the disc. Is there any way around this besides going in and combining all the tracks?

[dex Otaku]

No.

--

Correction: Yes - transfer by analogue means [i.e. from headphone or line-out of the MD to line-in of your sound card].

If/when the wave converter becomes available, I imagine this wont be a problem any more. With SS as it is now, however, I'd be leery of relying on it and the convertor alone, since SS trashes tracks occasionally during upload.

[jimmyjazz]

Hi,

I just wanted to suggest a really great program for anyone who is making wav files of anything to put to cd. I've been recording my live gigs and studio demos for years on md, and when I transfer them in (real-time) I use Sound Forge to record the wavs. I used to record one song at a time, and then bring them into my burning program one by one. Or I would record a whole disc worth and then have to break the file up into as many as 20 different songs via cut and paste (which got very tedious). The program that changed everything was a companion program from the makers of Sound Forge (sonic foundry) called CD ARCHITECT. I have used this for professional demos as well as mix cd's and cd's of my gigs.

This program is completely amazing, as it allows you to bring in wav files (even one long 80 minute one), insert track marks, crop out blank spaces or out-takes, apply effects such as reverb, eq, or noise reduction, (whatever plugins you have), manually adjust the gain in real time, AND burn red-book standard cd's directly from the program. If you have Sound Forge, it is integrated as the wav editor. Sound forge is also very useful because you can set the length of your disc using punch-in recording, monitor the levels to prevent clipping, and let it record while you leave the computer. (I used to fall asleep waiting for Cool Edit to record and wake up with a 4 gigabyte file and my hard drive maxed out because it had been recording all night).

Anyway, for what it's worth, I've read everybody's comments about Total Recorder (I had it a few years back but never used it), but thought I'd throw this program out there in case you guys haven't heard of it. Both Sound Forge and CD Architect are very user friendly too, but powerful enough for professional use.

I hope somebody finds use from this info. Major time saver.

-Jimmy

[dex Otaku]

Jimmyjazz -

This is not appropriate to this thread, even if CD Architect is great software [it's what I use, too].

edit: OMG.. did I just put on a mod hat for second? I'm not a mod.

[jimmyjazz]

Oh well,

Sorry, I swear I was reading in this thread that someone was talking about having to break up a wav into tracks. Maybe I closed the wrong window as a I had a few open and posted to the wrong thread. I'm perplexed as I go back and re-read. Oh well. Just trying to help, and hopefully if somebody in fact was wondering what to do in this situation, they find the info useful and that my time was not spent in vain. My intentions were philanthropic...I guess it's the thought that counts. Maybe it's just too late to be up and on the computer :sleep:

-Jimmy

[aeriyn]

edit:  OMG.. did I just put on a mod hat for second?  I'm not a mod.

I think you did. :laugh:

His post was somewhat relevant, since someone was talking about track divides. Although, that should have been a new thread unto itself.

Ah, too late to do anything with it now.

[dave_bass5]

Re: another alternative method , does this mean you need SS, TR and a recording app opened. I can get this to work by setting the input in Audition 1.5 to record through TR but it means i have to have TR recording as well.

Have i got this correct.

Thanks

Dave.

[dex Otaku]

Re: another alternative method, does this mean you need SS, TR and a recording app opened. I can get this to work by setting the input in Audition 1.5 to record through TR but it means i have to have TR recording as well.

another alternative method doesn't require or use TR at all. If your sound card's driver includes support for a 'wave' device in the recording mixer, you don't need TR.

[tibbsa]

I was hoping that Total Recorder's "accelerated recording" option might allow for faster-than-real-time transfers from MD, but SS seems to just lock up if TR is recording with this turned on. (If you stop TR, SS will recover and play through the speakers normally a few seconds later.)

Is this just my system, or is everyone in the same boat?

[dex Otaku]

That's the way it works here, too. I'm assuming everyone's in that same boat.

[Christopher]

dex, whilst I'm supportive of this method, I cannot keep it stickied as there is now an easier way for uploads - faster than realtime.

http://forums.minidisc.org/viewtopic.php?p=29860#29860

[dex Otaku]

Not a problem. It's a shame that it uses graphedit though, since all that has done on any machine I've ever tried it on is crash.

[sup8]

So far i've been transferring to the PC from my 800, then recording in wave with Audacity while playing track in SS. I think i read that the quality is the same as recording from MD? is it also true that i can only upload mic recording into SS once?

[Christopher]

I'm re-stickying this post until the other method is 100%.

[reefbeef]

Does anyone know how to tell Audacity to only record for a certain amount of time? Since this method is real time, it'd be nice to be able to get the process going, turn off the monitor and go to bed.

Is this possible to do with Audacity? Is it possible with Total Recorder?

[sup8]

I've switched gears and been playing my audio through the USB (not uploading it) and recording realtime with audacity. I am personally happy with that and don't even care if Sony upgrades the software. my concern is keeping the quality.. that i could not get plugging into my generic sound card. I also like hearing my audio start to finish on my speakers, i have to do it anyway and why not while recording? I'm pretty happy right now with the advantages of HI-MD and the MS-957, from the NetMD and 907 mic i started with.

[Latexxx]

I've switched gears and been playing my audio through the USB (not uploading it) and recording realtime with audacity. I am personally happy with that and don't even care if Sony upgrades the software. my concern is keeping the quality.. that i could not get plugging into my generic sound card. I also like hearing my audio start to finish on my speakers, i have to do it anyway and why not while recording? I'm pretty happy right now with the advantages of HI-MD and the MS-957, from the NetMD and 907 mic i started with.

If I'm not completely wrong, Audacity captures your audio as analog from your soundcard. Total Recorder can keep your files digital.

[jadeclaw]

Latexxx you are right and wrong at the same time. Why?

It depends on the soundcard.

If the Wave-channel is available for recording, then the recording is fully digital, as the data is taken before it reaches the actual hardware.

If only LineIn or Stereomix is offered, then there might be a problem: LineIn without Loop-back cable: it might be analog, atleast expect resampling artefacts, LineIn with loop-back cable: definitely analog.

[reefbeef]

jadeclaw,

If the volume settings window has a 'wave' section, does that mean a wave channel is available?

[jadeclaw]

If wave is shown among the recording controls, yes.

And yes, you have to select the recording controls first.

[mmilovan]

Dear members of the forum,

I’ve read most of threads located in this group. It was intention of mine to buy HiMD MZ-NH700, still I have more question to ask regarding the process of transferring recorded material (via line-in or mic-in) to computer described here. So here are the questions:

1) Is this suggested method (using SS and TR) “safe method” of digital recording (actually) - to safe transfer Linear PCM recordings, while not uploading it as SONY documented?

2) Is this method repeatable if something went wrong (for example if SS crashes or something) – is it true that using this method tracks are not converted to copy protected format?

3) Is this method real-time 1:1 or it can be done faster?

4) Can we upload regular .wav file onto the computer (as SONY documented “only once”) after using this method?

5) What is actual speed of uploading .wav files using SONY’s method (what is your experience)?

6) If process of transferring recorded files using “only once” SONY method with SS is interrupted by sudden rebooting of computer, computer freezes, power failure of the computer or HiMD – are files still there to convert to .wav format or they are replaced by copy protected versions?

Many thanks for help, you’re doing nice work here.

Best wishes,

Milan