SonicStage feature/bugfix wishlist

[dex Otaku]

Since SonicStage is pretty much what we're stuck with as NetMD and HiMD users, I think it's pretty important that Sony get it right. If their aim is to have a music library/player that is actually usable, they're going to have to listen to us eventually in order to get it right.

As it stands now, SonicStage is basically little more than a nuisance that we're forced to use. As someone with a rather large music library [my mp3 collection, mostly from my own CD collection, is over 26GB] I'd like to be able to have a single comprehensive library that is easily accessible and transferrable to my HiMD without hassles. I'm not very concerned about not being able to send tracks to my friends, to be honest, since my library is mostly for personal listening, not for filesharing.

I sent another long email to Sony Canada tonight detailing certain things I think they should change in SonicStage.. keeping in mind that I'm using 2.1, these are what I said:

* fix the bug that occasionally corrupts tracks being uploaded from Hi-MD formatted media [specifically: it does not finish uploading the track, then corrupts the track on disc and updates DRM info to make it impossible to do anything further with the track]

* Comply with SCMS standards - i.e. allow uploading from standard MD media when SCMS tags allow it. Many users are staying away from Hi-MD specifically because of this incapability. Your strict adherence to DRM'd media is ridiculous considering what MD and Hi-MD is going to be used for by most consumers: recording their own material, which they possess the copyright of.

* Integrate the forthcoming wave convertor [further: make wave convertor comply with SCMS standards, allowing upload and in the clear conversion of SCMS '00' user tracks recorded from outboard A/D convertors]

* An EQ would certainly be nice [i understand there was one before SS 2.1 - why remove it?] (Note: the -only- reason I wont use SS as my main player on a regular basis is its lack of even simple EQ, which my Logitech speakers require in order to level out the bass)

* A way to select quality vs. speed with encoding - it's been noticed by many [myself included] that SonicStage's encoding does not sound as good as recordings made from analogue sources right on Hi-MD units, which would suggest the codecs have been compromised for speed's sake. I would rather have the best quality possible, myself, as would many others.

* A way to batch-queue tracks to be encoded so they can be done at a later time would be useful, considering SS's problems with single-tasking - iTunes has SS beat in every way possible when it comes to this

* For advanced users, a way to specify process priority for encoding would be useful - I am constantly manually turning down the priority of the encoder since it bogs the entire system down. By now users are accustomed to multitasking - having to leave the system alone because SS makes it completely unusable why you rip a CD or transcode some mp3s is completely unacceptable. A lower priority by default might also be a good thing to consider.

* If hardware allows it, enable editing functions right on the unit controlled through USB [i.e. split, combine, etc. right on the disc, whether MD or Hi-MD, controlled by SS]

* A browse window that shows artists in a list, album, and then tracks in the library [something more similar to iTunes] would make general use as a music player much easier to handle. The way things are right now, the interface can be considered awkward at best and is often frustrating as heck due to the limitation of being shown only the current album.

* Information for release date [i.e. equivalent to the year tag with mp3s] should be included in tagging. Users with large collections of their own CDs that include multiple albums by one artist often look for chronological sorting.

* There should be a way to specify what output device [sound card] if a user has more than one available.

* Mac support would be a good thing - iTunes and iPod exist for the PC, but Sony refuses to acknowledge the Mac, cutting themselves off from an entire market which are predominantly made up of media professionals.

Issues surrounding file handling that need to be addressed:

* An option to have the OMG file deleted once transcoding and writing to disc has been done, rather than having multiple copies of the same track taking up space on the user's computer

* An option to have the OMG file kept and the original deleted

* A better delete mechanism is ABSOLUTELY needed - the current method of asking whether to remove a track from the library, delete OMG or other format files is completely useless. What if the user wants to delete only the 'other format' track and keep the OMG file in the library? There is currently no way to do this. Most of the problems here occur because users don't want the duplication and total waste of space that SS forces.

* A simple way to remove dead files [especially duplicate ones that have been deleted manually outside the library since the library does not properly allow it]

* As an extension to dead file removal: the choice to simply remove entries or search for the file if it has been moved. Look to Sonic Foundry's software for a good way to implement this: files that were originally placed in the same album/folder are the searched for en masse, meaning the user only specifies the search location once for a specific album, the software finds the rest automatically.

* A way to differentiate between altering tags on OMG files and original files [in the case of mp3s already ripped from a user's own collection, for instance] is essential; SS has thoroughly mangled parts of my mp3 collection by first reading tags incorrectly, then writing new tags to the original files incorrectly

* A way to differentiate between altering filenames based on changes to tags is necessary - i.e. an option to alter -only- OMG filenames, but leave source files alone

Please.. post your wishes for changes to SS.. Maybe if a bunch of us contribute we could send a collective message to Sony's software engineers.. this is EXACTLY what they need.. to hear from us, the users, on everything from the unlikely [sCMS compliance and MD uploading] to the outlandish..

So please - post your wishes! Let's see what you want.. and let's tell them what we want!

Edit:

* Track numbers should be editable; they should be editable regardless of format, too

* Artist names starting with "The" should not sort alphabetically under "T"; if forced to sort under the letter they belong under, they should not sort under "T" there, either

[jadeclaw]

More bugs:

1.) The running times of the tracks in an album are getting mixed up, when sorting the album. Refreshing the list doesn't correct this error.

2.) Artist info is missing in simple mode.

Feature wanted: Let us freely select the bitrate, when transferring onto MD, regardless of the omg/oma-files on the HDD, so I can have Hi-SP on the PC and LP2 on the MD.

Allow to create Sub-albums in the Library to allow finer organisation on the PC.

[Qwakrz]

ok,

1) Ability to transcode on the fly from a source Hi-SP file so that you can choose to transfer Hi-SP, LP2, Hi-LP etc onto the Hi-MD disc and it does NOT save these new files onto your HDD. (Yes I know there is a slight quality loss but I would like to only have to rip my CD's once and not clutter my HDD)

1a) Ability to choose the file format that gets put on the Hi-MD disc when more than 1 type exists

2) 128Kbps Atrac3+ codec rate for use on Hi-MD's (variable would be great but 128K would be a good middle ground)

3) Size (in MB's) of an album when viewing in the transfer window (I have to right click & show properties atm to see if it will fit on the disc).

Ill edit as I think of more.

Q

[dex Otaku]

2) 128Kbps Atrac3+ codec rate for use on Hi-MD's (variable would be great but 128K would be a good middle ground)

It would be nice, but as has been mentioned before making the players compatible with a new bitrate would likely require a recall to add it to the hardware codec.

3) Size (in MB's) of an album when viewing in the transfer window (I have to right click & show properties atm to see if it will fit on the disc).

Yes! Yesyesyesyes! I hate how they don't give you a total size in MB on the library side - they give time.. and then on the HiMD side they have MB free, but not time left [which they could estimate switchably per bitrate or something].. This drives me nuts.

[doclloyd]

- Easier ability to create new playlists I've never used iTunes at any great length, but from what I've heard, it's pretty good.

- It's sort of geared toward Simple Burner, but allow LP2 directly from MD->CD.

- More support for other audio formats, maybe via a plugin system. Stuff like ogg, mod/xm, etc...

- Easy searching of my own library of tracks. (OK, so a search function shows up when in "view all tracks" mode. Kind of useless most of the time.

- Easy ability to move my library if my hard drive fills up and i need to upgrade.

- SS 1.5 (I think) had very simple visualizations. It'd be nice, but kinda useless, to have those back.

- Multitasking support (already mentioned). Allow ripping of CD in background while transferring other tracks to MD or browsing the Connect Store.

- I'm all behind the transcoding (the converting Hi-SP to LP2 to MD) on the fly and not leaving any files behind in the process. This would ideally be nice for mp3 files too. Then they wouldn't be slammed for wasting all this space.

- Brighter colors. Sounds cheesy, but overall, the app is dark and doesn't stand out.

- Queue for files you want to transfer to MD/NW-HD1. This may be useful if you want to setup a disc/playlist, but your device isn't nearby (who knows why, but anyway)

Maybe there's more, but that's all I have for now.

[Breepee]

- Encoding codec quality the same as the ones in the unit chip.

- More input music file formats (Ogg Vorbis, FLAC, Monkey Audio etc.)

[[StrangeByte]]

An open documentated driver-interface to magicgate-drivers that allows 3rd party-developers to have secure access to the unit and develop alternative software.

note to the unskilled: this does NOT allow to circumvent the drm stuff.

edit: and i mean license free

[Jimmix]

My $0.02 in:

*Would be a great idea if SONY makes a quality switch for us to say when we want SS to encode prioritizing the quality rather that the speed.

*Also SONY should incorporate a true Hi-MD equivalent of LP2. In the faq theres a table where SONY states that Hi-LP was "supposed" to be equivalent to LP2, well...do it, I know Hi-LP has been improved in the latest SS so I know SONY can continue to improve Hi-LP. The other option will be to introduce the LP2 bitrate in Hi-MD.

*Also woudl be great if the iTunes+Hi-MD thing became reality!!!

*Ohh and why don't the unit's have bakclight, I think they should..and if battery life is a problem, just build a swith to put it off.

[jadeclaw]

And when all bugs are removed, give it the ability to select between different ./sonicstage/data/ directories to quickly select different skins.

[Christopher]

I should've stickied this a while ago. :happy:

[jadeclaw]

Another SonicStage bug: After backing up the database, it is no longer possible to edit uploaded files - SonicStage sucks.

I'll try the 2.2 over the next days, if the problem still exists.

Until then edit your tracks either before uploading on the recorder or edit after upload before backing up the database.

Another violation of basic computer rules...

[Leland]

Jadeclaw, I have noticed that files imported (mp3's, wav from files) cannot be edited sometimes. If I move the original imported file so SS can't find it, then delete the reference to it File Info tab of the track Properties, the song becomes editable. It is a pain because it has to be done to each track separately. Could that be helpful in the situation you describe? I guess I'm refering to imported files, which is not actually the same as uploaded files.

I noticed I cannot change the genre or other atributes of songs downloaded from connect. That is a pain as I use a limited set of genres, force fitting some, to reduced the number in the list to simplify searching by genre.

[doclloyd]

More feature requests...

* Easy ability to move the entire library to a different drive or section of the hard drive

* No DRM on ripped CD tracks. (sort of goes along with above) most people don't use SS anyway. I'm fine with the restrictions on purchased stuff...

* Easy ability to theme the entire app, not just the background

I'll think of more later...

[RichM]

Some 'feature' requests here...

* Provide more information for advanced users. Such as a change log with each build, 'cause we're not all dummies you know. Seriously it would be nice to know what Sony have changed between versions and builds of SonicStage and it's components.

* Increased application robustness. It really doesn't take a lot to break SonicStage. So ideally I would want it to handle errors gracefully, by keeping the application running and presenting an error message (see below) rather than starting then closing with nothing indicate what has gone wrong. This would probably increase the memory foot-print.

* Meaningful error messages, or even better, provide a list of the error codes and a detailed explanation for each.

* The ability to set the process priority within SonicStage, so it doesn't hog the processor if you don't want it to whilst it's encoding.

* A superficial one... how about some clear-type font smoothing, afterall this is not 1996.

* Sorry to reiterate but... Mac support. Need I say more.

[aeriyn]

I want an iPod. *cry*

[doclloyd]

Now that I've had a chance to use SS with a HD3, along with my NH900, I've decided that I want to send Sony a list of things I want to see changed via software updates in the future. I wonder if it would make just to compile the data from this thread or just send them this thread? Thoughts, ideas?

[Keon]

I want to be able to use my MZ-NH900 together with my iBook

Puh-lease, Sony, include Mac OS X support in SonicStage...

Please pay attention to our words.

[Nivuahc]

Would it be too much to ask for the ability to run this in Linux?

I hate the fact that I have to use a buggy piece of junk like Window$ just so I can listen to the music I either purchased or created myself.

DRM exists in Linux too, Sony, you needn't be scared.

[Chris384]

If anyone here would like to sign a petition for sonicstage updates and bug fixing there is one here:SonicStage Petition

it was started by someone from Club Vaio and was made to get better support for the VAIO pocket from SonicStage but you can add your own suggestions for MiniDisc's if you want.

there arn't a heck of alot of signitures on it at the mo but if enough people sign then maybe (when it is sent to sony) they will sit up and take notice of some of the problems with SonicStage!

[msquared]

I would like to see SS with the ability to convert the format before transferring it to the Minidisc. Possibly able to batch convert in background. This would save a lot of time.

I had a lot of problems with SS when I first started using it where I Would have to reload the database, effectively making previously recorded minidiscs unable to transfer music back to the computer. I had to re-record some of the music through a line in port and I lost a lot of music quality.

Quite a few of the cd's I have are not in a cddb database and I had to enter the information manually. unfortuantely SS just lumps any information entered this way into one category/title usually unknown. it gets difficult trying to organize music.

I too have a rather large database, nearly 40gb on this computer alone, and it seems that SS is having a hard time keeping all this music managed.

Mike.

[atrain]

there is a batch converter as a standalone from www.connect.com only does the atrac3+ bitrates tho, not the atrac3

all the same i'd shie away from using SS as a jukebox. a little silly but i'd use winamp/foobar as the primary player & reserve SS for transfer duty alone. the small extra time spent converting & transferring is payed back by ease of use in other programs...

[doclloyd]

It's interesting to come back and read this list after a long time. Has anyone come back here to see what actually has been fixed? It's interesting to see a number of dex's feature requests being implemented:

* Upload bug? seems a lot better. All recent uploads I've done have been good.

* WAV convertor integration

* Release date info is now there. Granted, it doesn't come with tracks downloaded from Connect, but anything that is ripped from CDDB has the info (along with composer now as well.) Though, no easy ability to sort by this seems to be available.

* "On the fly encoding and deletion" is now available, which is nice. No need to have multiple copies of files sitting around.

* Track numbers are now editable for ALL files (even those downloaded from Connect)

Now, for things that still seem missing:

* Better playlist support. It's improving, but the Smart Playlist concept seems like such a cool idea, esp. since others have it. An even cooler concept would be for SS to recognize a MD that is associated with a smart playlist and update it automatically when connected to the PC.

* They still need a better backup/moving mechanism. It all stems from their DRM, of course. After working on computers at work which had iTunes library, in which EVERYTHING was in one folder - database files and music - and just having to copy it over to the new computer was so nice. Just deauthorize the old computer for purchased music and re-authorize the new one with a couple clicks was amazing. Ultimately (as has been discussed), not DRM'ing our OMA files and scattering keys all over our computers to protect things needs to happen to make it easier on end-users. Again, there is the need to encrypt purchased music (and I'm OK with that), but ripped OMA files need to be open to be moved between computers more easily.

* Importing Album art is a challenge. Also, it seems to dither images down very heavily. It's nice having the album artwork in SS to quickly browse your collection. It would be nice to print album art from SS, even if you don't have a VAIO computer.

* Overall speed improvements still need to be made. No more animations (who really cares about that anyway?) From what I know from being a programmer, the Access-based database has to go. I'm sure it's a big reason as to why it's so slow. Go XML-based DB like iTunes. From what friends say, it handles large libraries with ease. Besides, in my eyes, detaching yourself from a backend that is inherently Windows-only (MS Access), you make it very tough to even consider other platforms. Granted, a massive backend overhaul of SS would be needed, along with a nearly bulletproof upgrade path for people, but I think it can be done. Let's be hopeful! :-)

Overall, SS 3.1 is a big step from the SS 2.x and even the 1.x series. I will give props where it is due, but it's still has a long way to go. Sony, if you are reading this, please continue to listen to the community that is using your products and do whatever you can to improve things. Thanks.

[Chiron]

How about full MP3 support (not just layer 1)...heck even proper transfer of layer 1 would be fine. I have had a number of MP3s that would not transfer over onto my 910 eventhough they were layer 1. The MP3s I had probelms with play with out error on other players and are fine if converted to ATRAC3+.

But I have to guess if I want to use MP3 or Atrac3+ each time.

The joys of Sonic Stage. I really wish it was more like I-tunes (other than the slow rip speeds). I-tunes is a good pieces of software.

[tommypeters]

What do you mean by "layer 1"? MP3 is "MPEG-1, layer 3"...

[kcabpilot]

Maybe I'm just stoopid but I can't figure out how to add track marks in Sonic Stage. You can't do it from the MD when hooked up so what am I supposed to do?

[3ikth]

Since my ipod HD failed i started using sonic stage which came with my new VAIO, (ver. 3.0 i think) and i think this stuff is all true, but the main points which i belive make sonic stage (for me) virtually unusable is the fact that it's:

a. so system resource hungry, so itunes is also fairly annoyingly high but although it took a while to process my music it did so without crashing my computer 3 times i have had to just go through transferring songs in batches of about 1000 to make it work. Foobar2000 and winamp did it all without issue.

b.I found that sonic stage will only group by artist thus any compilation cds (official ones) i.e. now 50 or whatever are all spilt up into seperate artist groups even though they are all tagged with the same album name (all my music are mp3's) and i had to put them in a playlist for it to recognise this, every other player i have used (and there are many)have at least managed this.

c. transfer, for some reason sonic stage crashes while trying to upload some files there seems to be no ryme or reason to it, they fail to convert and sonic stage manages to crash my computer.

d. animations, they're not big or clever and i'm geussing they are what must be causing so many crashes.

[akijikan]

Sh4ggy, I know what you mean in wish b.

I have many "Various Artists" CDs (ie samplers, compilations, etc) that are split into many albums, one for each artist...why can't I just have that be one album. At least in Album play mode on the MD it is able to group them when it lists the album.

[Christopher]

b.I found that sonic stage will only group by artist thus any compilation cds (official ones) i.e. now 50 or whatever are all spilt up into seperate artist groups even though they are all tagged with the same album name (all my music are mp3's) and i had to put them in a playlist for it to recognise this, every other player i have used (and there are many)have at least managed this.

You know what's hilarious? This occurs with even the new 'Connect Player'.

c. transfer, for some reason sonic stage crashes while trying to upload some files there seems to be no ryme or reason to it, they fail to convert and sonic stage manages to crash my computer.

Alot of variables can cause this, ranging from viruses or other processes on the computer consuming resources, the stability of the soruce file, and even vbr mp3's are finnicky. I would consider "d." to be mostly to be something induced by the user's configuration.

Edited December 21, 2005 by kurisu

[akijikan]

Reguarding Compliation CDs...

I had view selected as album and sort by selected as album, I right-clicked and selected properties and there's a nice little "compilation" check box. When you have multiple tracks with the "compliation" box checked, then the artist name displayed will be the last one checked. However, when you double click to view the tracks on the album, then you see each track still has its original artist name. I just tested it, and you can change the artist name in album view by right-clicking to properties and it won't affect the track artist names.

[A440]

Under Tools/Options/General you can turn off the stupid animations. That's the least of the problems with SonicStage.