Thinking of getting a Hi-MD? Or have one already?

[Davew]

Hi

Was thinking about whether Sony might give MD devices MP3 support or not, and started thinking, well what do most people really use their MDs for.... so I set up a poll to find out :smile:

Dave

[The_Stamp]

my main use for it is music playback, but i wouldn't mind recording meetings / shows / sounds for music composition. Im going to wait till next year and see what the new products bring. I bought the 600 this year.

[dex Otaku]

My primary use is location recording. The fact that I can use it as a portable music player is basically just icing.

If all I wanted was a player though, I wouldn't buy MD or HiMD. Compared to the rest of what's out there now, it's just .. antiquated, really.

As a recording format, it works exceedingly well.

I still hold to the opinion that Sony should be push push PUSHING HiMD as a recording format, and getting rid of DRM on personal recordings.

If you look at the consumer electronics industry, portable high-quality audio recording [that is also affordable, i.e. accessable to the general public] has basically been at an absolute standstill since DAT failed in the late 1980s. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING else has achieved a degree of embedded success to compete with either compact cassette or microcassette, which were already antiquated in the mid-1980s, and neither of which are capable of the baseline quality that people expect nowadays after 20 years of buying CDs.

[bjsilva]

I, like dex Otaku, use it primarily for live recording. Also for listening to music on occasion, usually when travelling.

Though I don't agree that it's antiquated, I'd still get a HiMD unit if I were just listening to music. I personally find the experience of going through CDs/MDs/records much superior to navigating a menu system. With HiMD there's less routing through discs, but I wouldn't consider that much of an advantage personally.

[aeriyn]

I'm tired of transcoding, so my DS8 (non Hi-MD) will likely be my last MD unit. Unless of course Sony gets off their high horse and includes native MP3 playback in their next round of Hi-MD. I might consider it then.

Almost dead-set on an iPod Mini, except for that sticky little battery life figure, and the inability to use easily swappable rechargeables (i.e. gumsticks or the Li-Ion cells the NH1 uses), somewhat makes me still keep my eye on MD.

Ya, I know there are other HDPs with battery life superior to iPod, but they are friggin' huge. Even the new Nomad players are massive compared even to a 3G iPod. And out of all these other HDPs, only the Nomad really has the output power to match iPod.

A lot of 5mW dealies out there, yanno. And my MD already does that.

Bah. I wish I had more money. I'd get both. :grin:

[Christopher]

Trend:

skyther = no more md

leland = not so much hi-md anymore

aer = aspiring for something else

Oy, mods. :rasp:

[Hyena]

I will most likely be buying a MZ-NH3D. (Despite looking at, and listening to a few DAPs. They're just not my bag.)

Well, I don't actually know. It's either going to be a domestic MZ-NH1, or a NH3D. The NH1 is only $30 more or so, but now that I have a decent computer as well as a 1,000+ collection of FLAC files, real-time recording isn't fast enough for me anymore. So the optical and mic in is of no use. (I can always get the lowest end unit with optical in for cheap later on if I REALLY need it.) Also, IMO the NH1's LCD screen on the unit looks like a joke to me. The NH3D is "sleeker". :rasp:

[Davew]

seems so far that there is a good mix if uses.

I have an MZ-R500 (which is still fine, though now hacked) and

an MZ-NHF800. Before I got that, all my music was still on CDs and I

got tired of having to analogue it to the r500 if I wanted to listen on the move. So when I got the nhf800 it was partly because of the 1G, partly because of the radio, partly becuase of the usb upload/download and partly because of the PCM recording.

I as many people, use it as an mp3 player and a live recorder, but I think that if I didn't need to record, I would probably have ended up with a HDD player. But, that said, I probably couldn't let go of minidisc!

Since my music is now all OMG anyway it doesn't really affect me whether sony add mp3 support, but I am awaiting sony's OMG converter for self recorded stuff.... :laugh:

Dave

[Qwakrz]

The main use my NH1 will get is as a music playback machine.

2nd use (and one that was missed off the board) is as a data drive storing backups of my important data and transfering documents & program between home & work.

[KJ_Palmer]

Other use: If and when they bring out a proper Hi-MD deck and freely available 1GB disks, I'll seriously consider recording my CD (and other) music collection to Hi-MD in PCM format, probably by digital optical link (hence the "Other").

Until then, I've just been dabbling a bit with PCM and Hi-SP, recording bits and pieces here and there. I may make a few live recordings and try a bit of uploading at some time, but I'm still happy with old-MD for that. Not even thinking about a computer-based DAP, can't stand the idea of me & my audio being PC-bound...

My faith is still in MD...

[hobgoblin]

personaly im considering hi-md for the fact that they can double as a removeable storage device similar to the old diskett. now if they a new series of hi-md players that can play mp3 native then im going to scoop one up for sure!

[Davew]

Sorry everyone,

I forgot to add a data drive option to the poll

as Qwakrz pointed out! :wacky:

Also, if you want to include recording from digital as the same option as analogue, that is fine :smile:

I mainly want to find out the most common types of uses but of course, 'other' is fine and i'm always interested to know!

Dave

[aeriyn]

I find MO drives (Hi-MD and otherwise) far too slow to be of any practical use as a data drive.

Over half an hour to transfer 1 GB... no thanks.

[Davew]

have to say I agree with aer,

data drive is only of use to me when im

syncing small files between machines.

today i had ~300mb file to put on disc

and after a couple of mins over usb,

gave up and burned to CD-RW instead

[mutant1345]

well i dont have a problem with the speed it goes a lot faster if you transfer one file at a time inseat of all of them...if that makes anysense ....this meathod wont work for singular large files...

[hobgoblin]

hmm, i just did a small search on google for some info on magneto optical storage media and one of the slowpoints had something to do with the way information was earased, but by useing some special kind of media the speed could increase by 33%. allso, i have a feel that minidisc writespeed have a lot in comon with cd-r writespeeds. how fast does the thing rotate on write compared to on read?

[Davew]

My nhf800 goes at

350 to 3000 rpm CLV according to the manual, doesn't

give separate figures for write and read though.

when reading, it is just like a CD isn't it.

I don't know how much slower it goes on write.

[hobgoblin]

hmm, 3000 rpm sound about the same speed as used on backup devices that i found info on over on the toms hardware page

well i guess one can scratch that theory then...

[Davew]

MD read speads are faster that write speeds because bits are read by the laser, but when writing, the magnetic head and the laser

have to position and I think that the laser has to stay on the disc for longer that a CD to heat it enough to store the bit magnetically.

If the heads skimmed away too fast, I think the change wouldn't stay.

Don't know if that's exactly right, but it satisfys me as an explanation of why MDs write slower than CDs.

[mutant1345]

mds write slower than cds

umm....my songs go to my recorder faster than any cd burner ive had the conversion not being counted but all my songs are already in the bit rate i use so i dont really have to worry about conversion....but still i am also taliking hi-lp and cd is uncompressed so i dont know the comparison of pcm and cd writing if thats the comparison your makin........

[jadeclaw]

Collective answer regarding MO drives and discs.

First, the faster writing speed experienced when using special discs has a simple reason. Normally, writing one track needs three revolutions of the disc: Erase - Write - Verify.

By using so called 'LIMDOW'-discs, the separate erase-cycle is no longer necessary.

MiniDisc is 'LIMDOW' by definition, Erasing and writing is done in a single revolution. MD has no separate verify cycle, instead the reflection of the laser is measured and if the reflection is gone too long (more than about 1 mm) the recorder stops and reports a record error.

Second, for those complaining about the transfer speed, modern MO-drives are quite fast, they play in the same league as multispeed DVD-writers.

Hi-MD is a different case, we should remember that all units so far are portable units, designed to go a long time with a single AA-Cell or gumstick.

And that shows, especially the seek times are on the slow side.

Expect home decks and pure PC-Drives to be a lot faster in that department. as power consumption isn't a primary factor there.

Finally, to speed things up, zip the files before copying to MD as one big file is written much faster than numerous small files. And the disc space is used much more efficiently as well.

[hobgoblin]

thanks jadeclaw

strange that they dont use the power output of the usb port to speed up the writeing...

[Leland]

Kurisu, I'm sorry for my lack of loyalty. I will try to improve by buying something soon! :cool:

I am interested in Hi-MD for recording from analog and mic. Once the upload hassles are solved, and they nearly are with things like total recorder, Marcnets program and the future promise of wavconverter from Sony, it is clear that HI MD represents a superior portable recording format. I have old MD's that I recorded from analog sources no longer available to me that HI MD recording would help me move to my PC. Also, some vinyl to record, and mic recordings.

I am simply waiting for the 2nd gen systems. Since I have a new toy in my NW-HD1 and my Gibson Les Paul standard, my toy satisfaction level is pretty high at the moment. This will not last forever.

[Davew]

thanks for clearing that up jadeclaw, I'm not

too hot on exactly how the MO disks work!

But i still maintain that is was a lot faster to burn

my big file to a CDRW than send it to Hi-MD!

by the way, I asked sony about the wav converter the other day, and I got a friendly reply:

"Although there is currently no software available from ourselves

that will allow for the OMG files to be altered there are currently plans

for a software tool to be developed that will allow this"

Well, lets wait and see, notice how they're not

commiting themselves to anything!

since I use my Hi for recording, It is a much

needed tool for me.

Don't know why I've never tried marcnet's way,

will pop over there later to have a look!

Dave

[Artstar]

Until then, I've just been dabbling a bit with PCM and Hi-SP, recording bits and pieces here and there.  I may make a few live recordings and try a bit of uploading at some time, but I'm still happy with old-MD for that.  Not even thinking about a computer-based DAP, can't stand the idea of me & my audio being PC-bound...

My faith is still in MD...

I just picked up an MZ-NH1 with the impression that Hi-SP is basically not noticeably lossier than MD-SP. I have yet to do some AB testing of my own to compare the same recording on both formats but of what I've heard out of one tune, it actually sounded as good as MD-SP! Then again, that was using the standard headphones that came with the unit.

Ultimately, the only reason why I bought it as an upgrade from my MZ-R50 (which I still have of course) was so that I could do my live recordings uninterrupted on one HiMD disc in Hi-SP mode. If need be, I could always revert to PCM but it was the idea of greater storage with the same sound as MD-SP which got my attention.

A lot of people seem to have differing perceptions on this and I'm definitely an affecionado with a trained ear so I'll be doing some proper testing later, using the same MZ-NH1 plugged into my audio system via the line out and play 2 discs in the 2 different formats to see what happens.

But when you consider the artefacts experienced in live recordings (venue acoustics, etc.) I think it's fair to say that Hi-SP will be just fine in theory. Hopefully I didn't waste my cash in practice

[jadeclaw]

thanks for clearing that up jadeclaw, I'm not

too hot on exactly how the MO disks work!

But i still maintain that is was a lot faster to burn

my big file to a CDRW than send it to Hi-MD!

No wonder, some of them write at 48x.

However, the sustained transfer rate to and from Hi-MD is limited by physical properties of the discs. That won't become faster with home decks or PC-drives. What will improve, are the seek times. But the stronger stepper motor needed for that is unusable, when you have to save energy.

So, using USB-power to speed up things won't work.

by the way, I asked sony about the wav converter the other day, and I got a friendly reply:

"Although there is currently no software available from ourselves

that will allow for the OMG files to be altered there are currently plans

for a software tool to be developed that will allow this"

Well, lets wait and see, notice how they're not

commiting themselves to anything!

Corporate speak. As usual. Atleast they promise something.

[Davew]

Yes, they promise these things, that's because they

go around taking out HiMDrenderer, eh jadeclaw?!

It's sony. and that's all there is to say

[The Rule]

Bah, my N10 was my last MD for sure...at first i thought i might get my self a nice NH900 but then i really started to think about it...and seeing on how i don't record anything, and mainly use my portable's for music playback...i just didn't see the need for it. I just when't ahead and bought my self a shiny new 40 GB iPod insted.

[Artstar]

Yes, they promise these things, that's because they

go around taking out HiMDrenderer, eh jadeclaw?!

It's sony. and that's all there is to say  

True that. Which is why I'm glad that we still have v2.1 out there (or at least for the benefit of everyone else we do). If anyone needs a copy of my (now archived!!) CD, let me know and I'll put it up on a server.

I just had the pleasure of being able to record a CD track digitally (S/PDIF interface) into my MZ-NH1, then dump it into Sonicstage via the USB and then convert it to wav using HiMDRenderer (for which I've donated some cash to the author).

You know what? I'm DAMN HAPPY and unless Sony release their converter, there will be no reason for upgrading so Sony can blow me.

As for the listening tests I've now performed between a raw CD rip, MD-SP and HiMD-SP, I must admit, I'm a little disappointed with the almost joint-stereo sound I'm hearing from my HiMD sample. It ever so slightly (but to me, noticeably) kills the spatial sounds that would otherwise be heard so. It'll do for live recordings quite professionally though, so that's the main issue for me with this thing.

[Rumz]

Well I've never thought of an MD player as an "mp3 player"-- probably because my use of MD predates the proliferation of mp3 players. I can't believe I've been using MD for 5 years now. I've always thought of it as just that-- a portable recorder and player. I didn't even have access to a computer when I bought my first MD unit-- that was part of the beauty, it stood completely on it's own without the need for a computer.

Of course MD has evolved and with higher capacity / longer discs it necessitates download via PC to an extent, but whatever. It's still MD to me

I used an iPod Mini over the summer and it's a great piece of hardware. I'm no longer in love with it though and Sony still has some things right that Apple has yet to get, and that's EQ and gapless playback. Some people are fine without these but when you listen to film scores as I do, gapless becomes a big part of the overall listening experience. I listened to the Gladiator soundtrack on my NH1 yesterday and it was seamless.

In short, I've used a couple different HDD based players but in the end I seem to come back to MD. The NH1 is getting more use lately than the iPod. If apple can get their act together with better DSP / EQ and gapless I'll consider a larger player like a 40gig iPod. Until then, I'll be enjoying gapless and dreaming of a Sharp Auvi Hi-MD player. To each his own.

[Seikeden]

I'll be using mine primarily as a take anywhere, easy option and if need be, *high quality* recording device for dj sets. optical input is spiffy too but I don't think I'll have a chance to use that for a while.

just being able to rock up at a party, plug the little baby into the rec out of any mixer, push record then come back in a couple of hours... well I don't think theres anything that beats that.

Can't imagine playing much music on it except for long trips.