1kyle

Since the HI-MD units are readable (and playable) on a computer there must be an underlying (Readable) file system on the discs even if it's non standard. Theoretically therefore a Bit to Bit image copy should be able to clone discs making it possible to LEGALLY copy YOUR OWN music digitally and distribute it without having to do it all in real time or use SS at all. Debugging the internal structure of these discs is a task beyond my computer capabilities but I'm sure there must be some computer wizzos out there who could have a look at this. I'd be very interested if this was at all feasable or to find out if the minidisc recorder contains some firmware which added odd random bits for each write which didn't do anything as far as normal operation was concerned but would prevent the "cloning" of the disk either on the same MD recorder or using a different one. Cheers -K

This solution usually works 1) Get into Windows with your minidisc recorder attached as a DATA device with the disc in it. 2) Format the Disc with Windows YES FORMAT WITH WINDOWS. 3) REMOVE and RE-PLUGIN the minidisc recorder 4) Start SS and RE-INITIALIZE the disc in HI-MD format or whatever you use 5) Should work again. Sometimes you might be able to re-initialize the disc in the minidisc unit but it doesn't always work. The method above usually works 100% of the time. --Re-formatting the disc with Windows clears out the entire file system so whatever odd "hidden" info the ATRAC system has left preventing your disc from being used will be cleared out. There's only one proviso with this the DRM BS will probably stop you re-loading music from SS's library back to this minidisc as it will say Music originated from a"Different Disc" or Different Computer --however you can load music FROM the disc TO the computer or use Simple Burner. Cheers -K

Some Classic FM stuff is transmitted uncompressed --- that's the stuff I'm Interested in not the other "Dance" stations etc. 128kbs MP3's DO sound horrible but the good stuff is almost CD quality. On Sky satellite you also get some uncompressed stuff as well. You have to look for it but it's out there. Cheers -K

Just a question here -- do any of you backup your music collection and if so with what --and how do you restore it again. How do you copy your minidiscs -- optically in real time or analog in real time or re-create from the original music source. Or do you simply not bother and hope you'll never have a computer failure or hard disk problems --- Have you NEVER had to re-install windows or restore a computer from a backup. For Ipod users --How do you re-create your music if and when you buy another Ipod (same for you people with the Hard Disk based players). One thing I always do now is if I'm ripping a CD for example I always make 2 Minidisc copies so I've got a duplicate CD collection on minidiscs. I don't download or purchase music online so most of my stuff come either directly recorded (digitally) from DAB (digital Audio Radio - Uncompressed sound --really great) or from Satellite Radio (Sky on Astra) Link Here http://www.bbc.co.uk/digitalradio/ or from Live recordings or CD's. Cheers -K

Unlike a lot of people on this board I'm actually a professional who does a lot of work in the field. Now Camera cards (profession Digital Cameras --the 5,000 USD and more ones like Canon Series -1 I'm talking about here) get filled up pretty quickly when you are on a shoot and these are also mega expensive. By being able to offload a 1GB camera card on to a MD in the field quickly is a really useful application and then the card is ready again for re-use. The guy who said flash storage is cheaper than minidisc -- he needs his head examined or he's just full of B/S. These cost around 230 UKP for a 4GB model or around 400 USD compared with around 5 USD for a 1GB minidisc. Here's the link http://www.clove.co.uk/products/products.a...intElement=7967 A 4GB camera card costs a LOT of money. To offload into 4 X 1 GB discs until you can get to a laptop is far better and you've got a backup. With a card reader and a Minidisc you don't need to take a laptop with you or even some of those "Digital Wallet" type of devices which in any case are unreliable and heavy. I started with Minidiscs for music listening ages ago (with the original SP only models) but the HI-MD format has made using these for data storage feasable which is what I use it for. I have 2 devices the NHF 800 and the NH1 and use them both for music and data. By the interest shown in MP3's (a format I've never liked myself BTW) I'd suspect that probablly there are a lot of teens and early 20's who are primarily using these for music. One point to remember however if you ARE tempted by Ipods ot the large capacity Hard Disk music players is that if it gets broken / stolen / you get mugged or whatever that's your entire music library gone up in smoke. I've been in the biz long enough to know hard disks DO FAIL more than you think. Another point is with a minidisc it's easy when you buy a new model to use the same discs and it's a lot easier arranging and re-recording music on to labelled minidiscs than having to organise a HUGE library every time. Cheers k

For PCM then more is better --however I find HI-SP quality good eneough (or more than good enough) for normal listening. Also at this compression level you can fit nearly 8 hours of music / 8 CD's which is fine for 1 disk. I like the idea of 5GB disks but more for DATA use -- can download pictures from a Camera card (SD) to MD for backup. The problem with high capacity disks for music is simply re-arranging and ordering all the tracks --gets worse as you increase the capacity. Also the risk of losing everything is worse with higher capacity disks -- it's risk vs convenience I suppose --but one reason I've never gone for the Hard Disk units (even with the 20GB hard disks) is what happens when you want to get a new machine or the hard disk goes belly up -- can you imagine re-creating your music library all over again -- especially if you have to do it in Real Time. If a new 5GB unit came out I hope it would still play 1GB and the older 80 / 74 / 60 min discs as well. I'd give up higher capacity in a moment for a portable device with OPTICAL OUTPUT however. Cheers -K

You Can get very reasonable quality if you have one of those XITEL MD-PORT devices -- however of course it's real time. Another easy thing to do is to create WAV files and then using Nero burn a "Virtual CD" (Drive Image included with Nero), mount it and then you can use SS to "rip" the CD and upload it into your library. Any simple sound card will do if you create a WAV file directly from the MD -- but of course you are then using the Analog output (line out / phones out) of the MD so for digital with older MD's the XITEL solution might be better unless you've got a high end deck with a digital output as the previous poster suggests. Cheers -K

For fairly simple reasons I don't think these are going to appear any time soon --- The current HI-MD units have the basic FAT16 file system (Old DOS and early Windows) which gives you a maximum file system size of 2GB (that's the maximum for the entire directory and files in it) Here's the Official explanation from Microsoft http://support.microsoft.com/kb/118335/EN-US/ To get larger than this you would need the file system to be written in FAT32 or NTFS (assuming Windows computers which depressingly still around 85% are. If the units were 5GB capable the entire internal hardware / firmware of the new units would have to be re-designed --and having just come out with HI-MD I don't think Sony would alter it again in such a short time. Besides even at HI-SP you can get nearly 8 hours of music / 7-8 CD's in quite decent quality anyway which is probably enough for 1 Disc. What's wrong with carrying around 2 or 3 disks. The new Hard Disk devices aren't as flexible, you have to re-record your music if you buy a new device / it gets broken and I'm not even sure you can copy in anything other than real time so a big pain in the butt, With the 1GB units --if you buy a new recorder your old discs will still work. Re-arranging music on these Hard disk players is also not as easy as you think. I for one am quite happy with the 1GB size --It's enough to be useful and not TOO much as to be cumbersome. Cheers -K

Actually there are several reasons for using MD as external storage --- for starters Professional photographers need to have a backup of images taken with Pro level DSLR's in the field --CF type storage gets full very quickly and for digital cameras carrying too many CF cards is not pratical on a shoot. When the CF card is full just transfer it to minidisc and the card can then be used again in the camera. It saves also having to take a laptop with you on a shoot as well. Copying to DVD in the field is not praticable --power, size and weight --but a Minidic recorder with a card reader ===> Minidisc works a treat --small, portable and uses easily avaialble AAA and AA batteries. A load of blank minidiscs in your bag doesn't take much space either and are not bulky like DVD's. USB key storage is quite expensive when you need more than 1GB and it is "volatile" storage --i.e you can easily lose it and you need a computer to retrieve the data. Other uses are for recording different lectures etc --keeping each on a separate minidisc -- not very praticable with USB key storage. Many other uses as well --apart from all the music related ideas. Cheers -K Minidisc recorder certainly works on Linux type systems as a generic disk device so in theory should be possible to use an a Mac --otherwise transferring data from a minidisc to a mac should be possible via a card reader or whatever.

I've just ordered one as well -- I want it to store pictures taken with a Professional digital camera when I'm out in the field and don't have access to power and my CF card is card is full. Will let you know 1 ---when it arrives 2 --- how much duty to pay (in UK) Note --often can get tax wavers if goods are marked "Educational Material" as there's 0% VAT and 0% import duty in the UK on Educational Material (and you ARE using this device to store photos on for future lecture demos etc !!!). In any case on 89 USD the customs duty will be very small and still cheaper than the UK Sony price --added to which you haven't even had to source the UK stuff either. I haven't even SEEN these in the UK yet but looks a great idea --Now what we need is a 2 or 4 GB HI-MD. !! BTW if you are using these check that it works for your model number From the web site Compatible Models: MZ-NH1/MZ-NH3D -K

Mine came with SS version 2.0 and the older MG module. I bought my NH-1 in Stockmanns --biggest shop in centre of Helsinki Finland. The point of the post was to say that if you upgraded the MD simple burner and you DIDN'T get the PCM option on the menu then I was merely stating a possibility that you need to update BOTH SS and the MD simple burner. I'd imagine places like France and for sure Singapore are likely to have many more sales than Finland so you've probably got one with the later version of the Software. I wasn't attempting to mislead people --merely explain what might be the problem if you DIDN'T get the PCM option which I didn't and a few others have also experienced the same problem. (There's still quite a few people still using SS 2.0 and even 1.5 I think.) Anyway thanks for posting the software -- it works for me now but it didn't until I'd upgraded SS --version 2.2 might have been sufficient as well -- I had version 2.0 and got 2.3 from this site. Cheers -K

Hi there -- the WAV converter was only recently released -- and I've still got some probs with it although this might be due to different XP service packs on the machines --am updating all machines this weekend --and the upload service has issues when you want to move stuff between machines -- Sony seems really Paranoid about using stuff on Computer B say which originated on Computer A. Another issue I have which might not be a problem for people is that I like to keep ONLY the WINDOWS O/S itself on drive 'C' and any "User Data" etc I have on other drives either "Partioned Logical Drives" or on a Network shared drive. Computer disaster and recovery is a whole other topic in itself but I do this so that I can restore the whole O/S from an "Image Copy" file if and when (Windows invariably crashes from time to time) the O/S or even the Disk gets corrupted --15 Min for restore and I don't need to re-install anything. User Data on different disks to the OS means that it can be moved / copied / archived separately from the main OS so if I get a new machine or disk for example no probs. Now SS keeps some files on the 'C' drive which is why I tend to avoid storing anything using SS. I really try and make my 'C' drive as a "No Go area". SS keeps some library files on your "C" drive --if it didn't you could store your library on a Network Shared Drive and access it from any machine --but this doesn't work --believe me I've hacked around with this program enough. It seems to know if you are using a different computer somehow. I do like the "Renderer" program --but have been waiting until it's a bit more stable which it seems to be now. Anyway I've got my work cut out today -- at least all the machines including the laptops will then be at the same XP service pack level. Would be great if this stuff could work in Linux --anyone. As a final aside could Sony at least RELAX the restrictions to allow copies to be done to 1 extra computer such as a Laptop. Adobe Photoshop --expensive but professional digitial photgraphic and image (graphics / photos) editing program costing around 450 GBP or 700 USD allows you to have 1 extra copy on your laptop as well as your main machine, and even Microsoft Office XP allows the same even though you have to go through that activation B/S twice --it's legal and works. A lot of people these days have a laptop in addition to a main desktop machine and they shouldn't have to have all the hassle of removing from one computer and then re-loading to the laptop without having to resort to all sorts of "get arounds" and trickery. Cheers -K

Thanks --also works a treat --- My main issue was the hassle of using different machines --but you've solved that for me. Great stuff Cheers -K

PCM probably is the way to go but unfortunately most Car radios etc don't have facilities for playing this unless you plug in via a separate Line In --a hassle. MD-LP2 mode is ususally easily good enouigh for the inside of sonewhere like a Car (and I have a decent BMW as well) althought HI-SP will be great when car radios can play it. I never liked CD's in cars anyway --and am hoping that my current radio will last until a new unit comes out -- I'm surprised at the difficulty of finding card radios with Minidisc playing capability -- I have the old Kenwood KMD 673-R. Another case of where Sony's marketing has been less than ideal --a copuple of minidiscs in your pocket is much better than fiddling around with CD's and stacking them in a changer in the boot (trunk for US guys) of your car. As far as MP3 vs ATRAC goes -- LAME is absolutely HORRIBLE compared with HI-SP or even MD LP2 mode --believe me I've had this stuff on Oscilliscopes and the MP3 stuff is VERY ARTIFACTY. LP2 comes out quite cleanly surprisingly enough, HI-SP is around 95 -98% as good as PCM and unless you have top rate equipment (and I mean TOP RATE) and a good amped set of cans with the ears to match you probably won't be able to hear any difference except inside the walls of a first class professional recording studio. For the "More Technically Challenged" -- an Oscilliscope essentially is a machine with a screen on it where you can display the sound wave and measure various characteristics. A sound wave is a complex combination of Sine Waves which shouldn't have any "Jaggies" or "artifacts" Now even PCM can have some problems as PCM is pure digital -- and in order to get this into a form that our Ears can actually hear it has to be converted into analog Sine waves. There's complex mathematics called Fourier Ananlysis which shows how this is done -- but it's not a straight forward process. The hardware is called an A/D or Analog to Digital converter --it's simply doing "The Maths" in hardware. If the quality of the A/D converter is bad then you are still up the creek. Now converting MP3's which are full of "noise and errors" the poor old A/D converter has a really hard time which is why you will never ever see MP3's being used in high end professional recording studios other than used for churning out relatively low level "consumer grade" quality material). I'm not trying to flame anybody here --the MP3 format has done wonders for "portable music" and in general is sufficient for "The Masses" just as Macdonalds is too --but if you prefer French Gourmet you won't go to Macdonalds --same with sound --for me MP3 currently at any bit rate doesn't have it --but if YOU like it then good luck --in this game the only thing that matters ARE YOUR OWN EARS. Cheers and happy listening. -K

Just a note to all those who've downloaded the upgrade to Simple Burner Version 2.0.04.18080 trying to get the recording mode to PCM to work or even show in the menu If it doesn't work you might have made the same mistake that I did -- You need to upgrade SS to version 2.3 as well (or at least ensure Open MG secure module version number is 4.05.10290 then it works 100%. I had version 2 of Sonic stage with the Open MG secure module version number starting with 3. After upgrading it ran fine and the PCM option was present as well. For downloads see the thread http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7812 Thanks guys for posting the links -- great to be able to use PCM with Simple Burner. Cheers -K

I've upgraded --but I still can't get any PCM options --any ideas thanks Open MG ??? anyway Ideas --Thanks Found the answer -- Upgrade to Sonic Stage 2.3 as well --now it works 100% Thanks everybody. -K

Now Now then I'm over 40 and can use computers / digital cameras / recording equipment / musical instruments etc probably a lot better than some younger members (and also have the money available to spend on decent equipment as well). As far as 8 Track is concerned I actually remember these and didn't like them even then. Ipods today IMO are "The 8 track" equivalent in todays terms --relatively inflexible, expensive, fairly easy to break and mark one out as either being a Nerd or a Geek. A nice MH1 has a much better "Kewl" factor for any age group and ATRAC3 Plus --provided you don't get too hassled with Sony's almost paranoidal attempts at preventing digital copies beats the pants off any MP3. Believe me Ipods are "Dinosaur Technology" --once some decent High end separates appear as well as HI-MD car radios the Ipod will be in terminal decline. Perhaps you should read this thread http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7811 Cheers -K

The loss in quality (at least for generations 1-3) is so small as to be probably undectatble --even when played on a really high quality external system The NH-1 seems to have a much higher quality amp in it than one would expect from this type of unit --also since I'm using the 2nd recordings in places like cars it's OK. To get an exact copy one would need some pro gear of course (expensive) but this method is actually a reasonable compromise between cost and quality provided the source recorder is good (and the NH-1 has quality in Spades) and you are using a high quality sound card and it's streets ahead of doing an Analog copy (Line out to Line In). Actually the more I use the NH1 the more I'm amazed with it -- wish it had a digital out however. Cheers -K

The problem with things like Ipods and HD recorders are 1) If it gets broken --all your recordings are lost --zonk, kadoom, etc etc. 2) If it gets stolen / you get mugged or whatever --same probs as 1) above. 3) Hard disks DO fail as I'm sure all of you with computers know only too well. So as 1) above. 4) The sheer volume of data on these large players make organising, playing and storing music an incredible hassle. 5) A typical 1GB minidisc recorded in HI-SP mode will hold an average of 7 - 9 CD's depending on content. This is a nice easy convenient amount of music to organise (around 71/2 hrs playing time) 6) Much more flexible than Ipods -- if you want new recordings --just slip in another disk and away you go. 7) It's easy to backup your music collection without having to use a computer -- just have a second copy of your disc. 8) incredibly easy to do LIVE high quality DIGITAL recordings - great at gigs etc. 9) In general higher quality recordings are possible with a minidisc than typical MP3's on an Ipod --might not matter for a lot of Rock music but MP3's are virtually NO GOOD whatsoever for Opera, classical stuff --probably not important to a lot of members of these forums but still worthy of consideration. 10) Battery life can be tremendous with these -- no problem playing the whole time on a flight from LONDON to SYDNEY !!!!. Also the new one's (particularly the NH1) really have the "KEWL" factor --great looking. Ipods are Yesterdays fashion --"Dinosaur Technology" Cheers -K

I was getting more and more irritated with the absurd restriction on Copying Minidiscs digitally --especially as I rarely actually load Music permanently to my computers --I have a Network of around 6 Desktops and 2 - 3 laptops -- Before you all think I'm crazy we are running a small photo studio so it's a private LAN. We are primarily photographers so we don't have any high end pro recording gear --as the music end of the business is just for adding sounds etc to DVD's for presentatiuon to customers and stuff for the web. Now SS makes storing music on a variety of computers really impossible due to the unbelievable hassle of moving music between machines --and if you store it on the LAN then it's no god if you want it on your Laptop to take home as well. Anyway this method allows you to copy discs digitally as many times as you want. We've got an MZ-NHI and an MZNHF 800 in the studio. So what you do is as follows --unfortunately it's real time but it works and whilst you can make digital recordings in LP2 / SP / LP4 mode the source disk must be recorded in HI-MD --no probs however if you've got 2 machines. 1) insert the Disc you want to copy from into the NH1 2) select SS to Transfer the relevant tracks you want to copy (BUT DON'T TRANSFER THEM INTO THER COMPUTER) 3) connect an optical cable between your Sound card and the 2nd minidisc recorder -- the disc in the 2nd recorder can be HI-MD or standard (LSP/LP2/LP4) 4) start record on 2nd recorder 5) on the ist recorder use SS to PLAY. Disc will now be copied digitally track marks and all correctly. (The 2nd Disk can then be used as a source for a 3rd copy and so on -- note however that this will only work if the Source disk is recorded in HI-MD mode and it's real time of course). You do need a decent sound card with a proper optical out -- I'm using the latest Audigy 2 from Creative labs but there are loads of decent one's out there I'm using this method to copy selected groups to LP2 (80 Min discs) for my aging car radio --wish Sony would have a Hi-MD unit and also for copying the odd lecture or two. For a lot of multiple copies then this method I agree is not very pratical -- making a "Virtual CD" with Nero and then burning with Simple Burner is a better way but if you do that it's an extra A/D and D/A conversion and of course you'll have to edit and add track marks manually. Cheers -K

Blue tooth has passed its sell by date --wrong technology for the wrong time. However a simple accessory I'd like on any of these small recorders is an OPTICAL OUT. Cheers -K

It's a pain but if you have Nero and a decent sound card why not create a WAV file (Real time unfortunately) --You'll get a decent recording copy if you set WAV as the recording source then edit with Nero WAVE editor --it's a great WAV editor BTW (or use one of your choice). You can then put trackmarks wherever you want, edit out gaps etc etc. Then using NERO's DRIVE IMAGE --included with the Nero software burn a "Virtual CD" --and using this use MD simple Burner to re-burn to your MD again. Note you don't have to burn a "Physical CD" or an actual Disk" and this Virtual Disk can be created very quickly indeed. I'm not a fan of SS --especially as I use 5 or 6 different computers and the hassle of remembering which computer which piece of music was originally stored on is much to much to bother with. The only thing I use SS for is for playing a Minidisc on the compuyer or creating a WAV file (in real time) when I'm playing a Disc. My big bugbear with all this SS stuff is that if I've made MY OWN MUSIC why shouldn't I be able to store it, access it or manipulate it in anyway I choose on ANY OR ALL OF MY COMPUTERS. I'm sure a lot of Pro and semi pro musicians have more than 1 computer as well.

All you need is any old battery pack with the same size connector as fits on the cradle --it's easy to make one -- I've made one with 4 X 2200mh re-chargeable batteries in a box with a cord which connects into the 6V in on the cradle. Works a treat and any of you that can handle a soldering iron it's easy. Get a Tin / plastic case of any convenient size, 2 springs for the -ve end and a piece of metal for the + end (or even an old 6V electric torch / flashlight case might work). You'll also need to source a very tiny connector which will fit into the cradle slot but these can be found easily enough. OK it's a bit bulky --but it works and you did say "emergency use" and you've got an external battery pack (if you keep it a 6V you can get any size you like --including those HUGE 1.5V batteries if you want). Cheers -K

There is a way round this --especially if you've got a recording program with your Sound Card (or in an emegency just use Windows Media recorder). 1) Start SS and press PLAY (On the SS program --not the Minidisc machine) 2) Set your computer recording app to use WAV as the recording input. 3) Record as a WAV file. 4) Now with WAV editor break up into appropriate tracks. To get this back on to say another Minidisc -- just burn the WAV file into a CD Image (if you've got Nero this is easy -- burn as an Image with Image recorder --you don't need to make a physical CD). Mount this image as a CD with Nero's DRIVE IMAGE (included with the NERO program). This poodle fakes the computer into thinking there's a real CD mounted. Now you can copy this to a new Minidisc with Simple Burner. Then This new minidisc can copy tracks to another computer or whatever (as can the Nero CD Image etc). Hope this helps a bit. I HATE SCMS and DRM. - especially copying YOUR OWN MUSIC.

I would -- I currently have the Kenwood unit (which does play MDLP discs) -- I'd really love to replace this with a Hi-MD unit as I often go on longish trips and a 7 hr disc at high quality would be great. HI-SP quality is fine BTW and it is a little better than LP2 which itself is fine for the environment inside a car. Saves carrying and changing all those "Posey" CD's and also MD's don't Skip as well. I'd like a "Bookshelf" unit as well -- I'm currently in the process of "getting rid of " all my CD's (around 2500 of them). I've still got some old Vinyl which I'm keeping however.