MZ-RH10 [JP Model] Review

[dex Otaku]

[attachmentid=1104] [attachmentid=1105]

<FONT size=5><B>BIGGEST PROS:</B></FONT><UL><LI>OLED display, which is well worth paying extra for and <B>vastly</B> better than either LCD or backlit LCD; the larger display is also far more readable in general, with longer lines of text and more information presented in one go</LI><LI>combination of gumstick battery and AA gives the ability to record a full 1GB HiMD in HiSP mode [7 hours 54 minutes] nonstop</LI><LI>orientation of inputs compared to face makes for better handling [and makes it seem more like an audio component, IMO]</LI></UL>

<FONT size=5><B>BIGGEST CONS:</B></FONT><UL><LI>lack of timestamping is a serious omission</LI><LI>scratchability of plastic coating on face</LI><LI>defective MP3 support [keep reading though, it's not as bad as it might seem]</LI><LI>having to use SonicStage for anything, even if it has improved</LI></UL>

<FONT size=5><STRONG>General Notes:</STRONG></FONT>

<UL><LI>As I was aware of quite some time ago, <STRONG>there is no MD or MDLP support when recording via analogue or optical</STRONG>; I was already aware of this, and it doesn't matter to me.  I have no legacy MD, MDLP, or NetMD equipment to worry about compatibility with, for one; I also have an NH700 which supports MD and MDLP modes if I need them</LI><LI>orange sure is pretty </LI><LI>the face is <B>VERY</B> easy to scratch; so much so that gently wiping dust off from the packaging [with a clean cotton t-shirt] scratched it immediately after removing it from the box </LI><LI>addendum to that: scuffing is worse than scratching; today [2005-06-14] I scuffed the surface [over the display, of course] by simply carrying it in my jacket pocket; thankfully the scuffs and scratches don't interfere with the OEL's readability</LI><LI>organic EL is beautiful </LI><LI>it has more heft than expected </LI><LI>thank <I>bob</I> for the fora [as Douglas Adams would put it], otherwise it would still be in Japanese </LI><LI>the AA battery caddy has all the feel of something that will be the first thing to break, though in all honesty the longevity of the NH14WM-A gumstick battery has truly surprised me</LI><LI>thank Audiocubes for sending the universal power adapter [regulated!!!]; <EM>note that as kurisu pointed out, JP models come with the "world" power supply, so that explains this</EM></LI><LI>it came with the universal power adapter, bag, battery, manuals, super-short USB cable, extra CDs for the English software versions, better earbuds than the NH700, &c. - <B>but no blank disc!</B> Kinda funny that the gen1 bottom-end recorder came with a free disc, but the gen2 top of the line [excepting the camera model] doesn't. <EM>Note: kurisu has informed me that JP models don't come with blanks</EM></LI><LI>the internal mechanisms are somewhat quieter than the NH700 </LI><LI><B>where's the timestamping? there is no timestamping.</B> this seems a really ludicrous omission - and means that this extremely simple to implement and very useful feature [which I for one would make use of with almost every recording I make] is available only on the now discontinued NH1</LI><li><b>The JP model RH10's headphone output [is the European RH10 Eurocrippled?], when set to 29/30 volume and EQ off, is extremely close to actual line level. Any complaints about it not having a line-out or line-out mode like the NH900 are unsubstantiated.</b></li><LI>initial listening tests with material encoded directly to HiSP from CD using SS suggest that the digital amp -does- make a difference; there is a slight emphasis on the high-end as well as slightly better overall clarity - the most obvious effect of which is that certain forms of compression artifacting becomes much more obvious when listening through the RH10</LI><LI>I tried scanning the unit, but the reflectivity of the aluminium-under-plastic made it show up as black. Someone else already posted photos of the orange unit, anyway.</LI><LI>the fontopia earbuds included with the unit actually fit in my ears [the ones that came with the NH700 are completely useless in this regard; they actually fall out without even applying pressure to the cord], and while not fantastic, they don't sound like total crap</LI><LI>I have confirmed for myself that the MP3 issue is real, and from a purist standpoint this has me raging.. however - my hyperacusis likes the way MP3s sound on it; the unit's defect actually softens out exactly the range that causes me physical pain, an unexpected benefit which means that the EQ I apply to MP3s is actually <I>less</I> severe than what I apply to everything else</LI><LI><B>the benefit of being able to drop whatever I want to listen to right now on the unit and not have to wait for transcoding outweighs the quality loss for my own use, but -</B><LI><B>SONY need to fix the MP3 issue [and do so at zero cost for <I>all</I> customers] if it can be done, because this kind of defect is rather massive and completely unacceptable from a company that should simply know better</B></LI></UL>

<FONT size=5><STRONG>Usage notes:</STRONG></FONT>

<UL><LI>orientation of display/controls vs. disc mechanism and inputs/outputs [now on top rather than side] is more convenient for general handling than having things on the side as with older models</LI><LI>the interface is much nicer than on the NH700; same functions, but more nicely presented; a larger display is a <B>good</B> thing </LI><LI>is functionally identical to the NH700 with the addition of the "File List" function [useful if you use it for USB storage] and an option for always on/auto-off with the display</LI><LI>the jog-dial/roller is weird as hell: when in menus, it behaves as the setting for "normal" or "reverse" tells it to; when using it to set the record levels [and in at least one other place where it's counter-intuitive, though I don't recall what at the moment], it behaves the opposite of what one would expect, [e.g. rolling it up turns down the levels and rolling it down turns up the levels, though if thought of as an attenuator it works as expected] and the jogdial direction setting has no effect on it </LI><LI>the jog-dial/roller is more diffcult to use than the NH700's jogdial</LI><LI>starting the unit in rec-pause is a simple one-finger operation; it's actually quite easy to press record-pause with the thumb in a single rolling motion - this is handly since I usually start in rec-pause to enable manual levels anyway</LI></UL>

<FONT size=5><STRONG>Notes related to the RM-MC35ELK remote:</STRONG></FONT>

<UL><LI>the included RM-MC35ELK remote [with backlit display] is much more functional than the displayless lipstick remote, though I still don't envision myself actually using the display often; the additional keys and press/slide play/forward/back is a good touch; the reversible clip is one of those "finally!" kind of features; it also works great with my NH700</LI><LI>the buttons are less easy to press accidentally, something that happens frequently with the RM-MC21 included with the NH700</LI><LI>the ability to switch EQ modes and alter the custom settings with the remote is <B>really</B> nice</LI></UL>

<FONT size=5><STRONG>Comparing the RH10 directly to the NH700:</strong></font>

<i>I know this doesn't exactly belong in this review, but others have been asking for such a comparison.  This is taken almost verbatim from another such post.  Some of what is here is repeated from above in plainer language.</i>

In terms of usability, the RH10 has few true advantages over the NH700. After a couple of weeks' use, I now find that the RH10 is easier to start recording with one hand. Handling is a matter of personal preference - I find that the RH10's roller rather than the NH700's jogdial is slightly more difficult to handle, for example. The overal design of the RH10 feels more like a tiny audio component, though - with jacks at the top, battery compartment at the bottom, AA sidecar on the side, and disc door opposite that. The layout makes more sense to me than older MDs did and the NH700 does.

In terms of function, the RH10 has only two features [other than MP3 playback] that the NH700 doesn't: OLED display and the options for it, and the "file list" function which has the potential to be useful but I doubt I will be using very often - I almost never use the USB storage features, myself; it's faster to burn a CD-RW. Otherwise they are functionally identical.

The RH10's big advantages come from the much larger, self-emitting OLED display. Setting levels in pitch darkness - or a thunderstorm as I did the other night - without carrying a flashlight is now possible. The display on the NH700 is sufficient [3 small lines] but due to the depth at which it's set in the unit, it's difficult to read even in reasonable lighting conditions; the case itself shadows the display.  The RH10's display lines are both larger and longer, meaning actual readable titles.

In terms of recording, there is basically no difference between these units at all. The RH10 lacks the NH1's timestamping feature [<b>SHAME ON SONY! for omitting such a simple feature</b>] which is the only thing [other than its remote, which can be purchased separately] that really distinguishes the NH1 from the rest of the pack when it comes to recording. Mic preamp, line input et al are basically identical across the board from what I've seen. I am just as confident using my NH700 to record as using the RH10. There is no clear superiority thing happening here.

The RH10 includes the side-caddy for AA use, and the included NH-14WM [gumstick] battery provides truly surprising longevity. The AA caddy appears flimsy but if you're not totally careless with your equipment it shouldn't be any more of an issue than the NH700's [very solid] all-plastic construction.

Sound-wise, the differences between the NH700's analogue amp and the RH10's digital amp are pretty minor. The digital amp has a higher output and seems to emphasise treble in a way that makes compression artifacting generally more obvious. For portable use in moderately noisy environments, this is a non-issue, as outside sound will mask such things away. For listening at home through good headphones at moderate volume, the NH700 is preferable to me as it seems gentler, to be honest. In reality, its supposedly less-accurate amp is probably fudging the sound enough to blurr out some of the artifacting that the RH10 sometimes makes glaringly obvious.

The MP3 feature of the RH10 is flawed, but I use it anyway. For portable listening, the 9dB difference in the high end isn't enough to bother me when I can just apply EQ to it anyway. The convenience of being able to deal with my large MP3 collection directly far outweighs the difference in sound. MP3 playback is closer to gapless than I've seen with any other hardware device, too.

To repeat directly from above:

<b>The JP model RH10's headphone output [is the European RH10 Eurocrippled?], when set to 29/30 volume and EQ off, is extremely close to actual line level. Any complaints about it not having a line-out or line-out mode like the NH900 are unsubstantiated.</b>

The RH10's biggest fault is the clear plastic coating on its face, which is easy to scratch or scuff. The NH700, despite being all-plastic, in fact appears to be far tougher; after 10 months' use [in some adverse environments, too], my NH700 is yet to be visibly scratched or scuffed. In fact, rather than scratches, the NH700's plastic case is showing wear through its silver paint instead. It looks like loving wear, though.

If you're trying to choose between these two models, my final criteria would be what your primary use and your budget are; since the function of the two units is nearly identical, and the recording capabilities are arguably identical, <STRONG>if recording is your primary use and you're feeling budget-conscious, get a NH700 and a mini-maglite.</STRONG>

<STRONG>If you can afford to spend more, the OLED display of the RH10 is worth it, IMO. </STRONG>

In either case, the MP3 playback of the RH10 is little more than a bonus feature unless your primary use is as a portable player, not a recorder.

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<FONT size=5><B>dex's Unscientific Tests:</B></FONT>

Once again - this isn't tremendously scientific, and I do not have professional test equipment. The following do not give any realistic idea of what the units sound like.

They do, however, given the basis of comparison between original files, my Revo looped-back, and the input and output of the two recorders, give some idea of their differences. This is testing done with only my own recorders; your mileage may and will vary.

<B>Note that nothing here is actually calibrated properly.</B> What I refer to below as "calibration" is using my Revo as the point of reference, meaning the results are skewed according to its capabilities.

<B>These should by no means be considered definitive or to be "official" measurements. They are simply for comparative purposes, keeping the frame of reference [my Revo] in mind.</B>

<FONT size=5><B>PCM analogue recording tests:</B></FONT>

<B>Conditions:</B>

<UL><LI>used M-Audio Revolution 7.1 in stereo mode with all levels at maximum [should generate a maximum of 1Vp-p on output] </LI><LI>both units were operated on battery power only </LI><LI>line-in "calibrated" by playing 0dBfs 880Hz tone and settings levels on both recorders manually; 18/30 gives peak reading on the RH10's meters at the second dot, second segment from the top; </LI><LI>mic-in “calibrated” by playing 0dBfs 880Hz tone and setting levels on both recorders manually to 18/30, then dropping the output level of the Revo to meet the second dot on the RH10's meters </LI><LI>levels were left the same as set for RH10 for testing the NH700 </LI><LI>line in: RH10 peak level is at -0.7dBfs; with the NH700 peak level is at -0.3dBfs </LI><LI>mic in: RH10 peaks at -0.9dBfs; NH700 peaks at -0.3dBfs </LI><LI>recorded tracks were uploaded using SS 3.1, converted to WAV, and tested with SpectraPLUS software</LI><LI>Graphs were made with the following settings: 1024-point FFT; “Flat Top” smoothing window; FFT overlap at 90%; peak hold on; logarithmic scaling for both amplitude and frequency axes. The resolution is fairly coarse, but sufficient for purposes of rough comparison. Anything greater would be overkill.</LI></UL>

<B>The following test files were used:</B>

<UL><LI>10-second long, -6dBfs (peak) 16-bit/48kHz sweep as generated by Sound Forge 8's "Simple Synthesis" </LI><LI>10 seconds of digital silence </LI><LI>10 seconds of white noise (16-bit / 44.1kHz, correlated stereo, a.k.a. mono) as obtained from an AES testing website </LI></UL>

I also ran all the same tests with pink noise, brown noise, blue noise, and violet noise, all from the same AES-related site, but no unusual results were found, so I didn't bother keeping these plots.

Both the line and microphone inputs were also tested for self-noise/noisefloor by grounding their inputs, then recording for 10 seconds with manual levels set to 0/30, 18/30, and 30/30. The graphs are aggregate for the full 10 seconds and compared with looped-back silence from the Revo. 

Each graph's amplitude axis was scaled for best fit, as can be seen on the graphs themselves. While I tried to maintain the scale between comparable graphs, they were not made to directly compared with one another, since each contains multiple results as overlays. <B>If you're comparing them to each other, pay attention to the differences in their amplitude axes.</B>

<B>PCM Recording Test Graphs:</B>

<blockquote>Line input - Null signal [silence] recorded from the Revo, level = 18/30

[attachmentid=1106]

Notes: Here the RH10's noisefloor appears to be almost 10dB quieter than the NH700's. Woohoo! .. almost. Check the grounded noisefloor plots.

Line input - logarithmic sweeptone, level = 18/30

[attachmentid=1107]

Notes: Nothing surprising here.

Line input - whitenoise, level = 18/30

[attachmentid=1108]

Notes: I don't know what was going on with the loopback recording. That bump in the bottom end takes place in the last 1sec of the recording and is not present in any of the others from the same source.

Mic input - Null signal from Revo, level = 18/30

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Notes: Considering the difference between the RH10 and NH700 on the line input, the lack of difference here is almost surprising.

Mic input - logarithmic sweeptone, level = 18/30

[attachmentid=1110]

Notes: Nothing surprising.

Mic input - whitenoise, level = 18/30

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Notes: Nothing surprising.

RH10 line input - selfnoise [grounded input], levels at 0, 18, 30/30

[attachmentid=1112]

NH700 line input - selfnoise [grounded input], levels at 0, 18, 30/30

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Notes: Compare the plot of results from the RH10 with the NH700 - The RH10, when brought up to 30/30, has a massive jump [10dB @ 1kHz] in its noisefloor, decreasing with frequency, for some unknown reason.

Comparing this with the null signal recorded from the Revo, the difference is somehow appreciable. Can anyone think of why?

<b>Note that noisefloor figures such as these aren't really that useful, since I haven't measured the actual preamp gain to give any idea of actual signal-to-noise.</b>

RH10 mic input - selfnoise [grounded input], levels at 0, 18, 30/30

[attachmentid=1114]

NH700 mic input - selfnoise [grounded input], levels at 0, 18, 30/30

[attachmentid=1115]

Notes: Comparing the RH10 results with the NH700, it appears that either:

* the NH700 fares slightly better by a very narrow [i.e. imperceptible] margin, or

* that the RH10 has a marginally higher gain ratio overall.</blockquote>

<FONT size=5><B>Playback tests:</B></FONT>

I compared the NH700 with the RH10, both with their volume control set at 29/30, using the same files transferred directly to HiMD using SS in PCM mode. These are again referenced to the original files and the Revo's looped-back results for comparative purposes.

Results from the RH10 and NH700, recorded by the Revo at unity gain, were not corrected. This show the level difference coming from the units themselves.

<B>Playback test graphs:</B>

<blockquote>Digital silence [PCM transferred from SS]:

[attachmentid=1116]

Notes: Were these results calibrated, the lines would overlap almost exactly, with the NH700 higher by maybe 1dB throughout.

Logarithmic sweeptone [PCM transferred from SS]:

[attachmentid=1117]

Notes: The NH700 has a flatter response curve!

The RH10's output slowly raises response starting at about 3.5kHz until it's actually up by about 2dB at 20kHz [not an audible difference for most listeners with average hearing]. This might help explain the slight sweetness to the sound of the RH10.

Whitenoise [PCM transferred from SS]:

[attachmentid=1118]

Notes: No alarms, and no surprises.</blockquote>

<FONT size=5><B>MP3 playback test:</B></FONT>

A final test was performed comparing the original files, files transferred to HiMD as PCM, HiSP, lame MP3 [--preset-insane], and Sound Forge 8's Xing MP3 encoder [@320kbps]. I could have tested the iTunes FhG encoder, FhG/Radium, and a couple of others, but again, it would just be overkill. The point here is to show that the same results are achieved with at least two encoders' output; I expect the same to happen regardless of what encoder was used.

The Xing encoder's plot is the magenta line on each graph, as only 4 overlays are allowed and listed in the legend.

<B>MP3 playback test graphs:</B>

<blockquote>Logarithmic sweeptone:

[attachmentid=1119]

Notes: Can anyone explain the ~1dB notch in HiSP's curve at about 4.5kHz?

MP3 playback response starts to fall perceptibly at almost exactly 1kHz.

<b>This looks exactly like a -9dB, -3dB/oct high shelf set at 1kHz.</b>

Whitenoise:

[attachmentid=1120]

Notes: The Xing encoder appears to be distorting the signal more than lame does.</blockquote>

That's it. Have fun.

Any questions - do ask. If you see any errors, please tell me. In particular, the graph legends may have mistakes in them as I had to re-create them several times and may have missed labelling them properly.</B>

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Notes after nearly 6 months' use:

• the unit is starting to develop character - the face is covered with tiny scratches, and the forward/back buttons have lost most of their silver paint at the edges, revealing white plastic beneath. It looks well-appreciated, and it is.
• the fact that the buttons are all beside the display helps the display to not get scratched.
• the gumstick battery still lasts longer than I ever expected it to.
• I almost always use the AA sidecar when recording; with the gumstick fully charged and AA connected, I technically could fill a 1GB disc in HiSP mode [7 hours 55 minutes] without having to stop or switch batteries.
• I use the display on the remote far more often than I ever thought I would - though almost exclusively for changing the EQ, not for searching for tracks on discs.
• I ditched the cradle after about a week; if it were a USB cradle rather than a charging cradle, I might use it, but since I'm constantly plugging in/unplugging both of my wallwarts to carry in my recording kit [with my the RH10 and NH700], it never gets used. Having a cradle for USB would be more convenient - I have actually considered doctoring the charging cradle for this purpose but haven't got to it yet.
• both the remote and the unit [being orange and shiny] get noticed a lot - I find myself explaining what is quite often to people who ask "is that an mp3 player?" while pointing at the remote.

Edited November 15, 2005 by Ishiyoshi

[Archivist]

A number of people use clear adhesive plastic designed for PDA's and camera LCD's to protect their MD displays. If I get an RH10 I may invest in some to cover the entire front of the unit.

I have access to an NH1, but I am far more used to the timestamping function of my MZ-R55, which was a real boon. I currently use a DR480 which does not feature timestamping, but I do miss that.

And of course, congratulations on the new unit! Please let us know how it goes with live recording!

Archivist

Edited June 12, 2005 by Archivist

[bass_hit]

I got a black RH10 from sony style. The US version came with a blank disc but the remote didn't have LCD display. It works for me but I can see how others would want a display.

I usually use mine for listening to music at work (8 hrs.) In HI-LP mode the included rechargable battery seems to work for a long while. Usually I just plug it into the UBS for a charge during the night. The AA battery compartment is a bit odd. At first I had problems getting the damn thing on the unit. The screw on adapter idea is good for a tighter fit but I think that if sony had added on a snap on connection so you could snap it into place and THEN screw it on, it would work much better.

I did a few little demo recordings with and an like it alot so far. I'm impressed with the audio quality and how well everthing has been comming out. I just have a mic going into a small mixer and then into the RH10 Line out and it works great. The suplied power addapter is great for studio use but I feel that the AA battery add-on will come in handy when I start making live/field recordings. I do most of my recordings in the studio using SONAR 4 Producer Edition by Cakewalk but I think using the RH10 to record samples instead of directly recording to SONAR (especially when in the field) would come in handy.

The ear buds that came with mine feel a bit short. I know that the remote gives a bit more cable but most of the time I have the unit in my left pants pocket and have the remote attached to the rim of my pocket. I ended up using a $20 set of sony Walkman headphones I picked up at Radioshack. That presented the problem of having too much wire so I simply service looped it and wiretied it a few times.

I think that everybody that has an RH10 hates the fact that it scratches and smudges so easily. Oh well. Maybe Sony can add some coting on the next line that they come out with.

This is my first Hi-MD unit I've ever had. I picked it up because I needed to be able to do recordings using MD. My other units are a bit limited (a NetMD portable and an SP only deck). I think this unit is really neat and would recomend it to friends if they had the money for one. Most people I know still use CD playersand are impressed by MDLP and theire jaws drop when I tell them about Hi-MD.

[Ishiyoshi]

thank Audiocubes for sending the universal power adapter [regulated!!!]

←

Congratulations! By the way, all Japanese RH10 now comes bundled with a standard universal AC Adaptor; regardless if it's a domestic or tourist model.

[mrsoul]

Dex-

Try this trick for the OLED: Screen Saver

As for the jog wheel, I also found it to be bassackwards when adjusting the recording levels too. I did figure out if you use the rew and ff "buttons" on the sides of the wheel, you get more intuitive results when adjusting the levels.

I have had this RH10 since April and it is my main recording unit. To be honest, I have used the RH910 far more. That's really why I bought the RH910: for everyday use. Basically, the same units but I haven't really missed my NH900 since making the switch to 2nd Gen. I never recorded in ATRAC3 with the NH900 and I still use the RH910 with SS to make MDs for my MZ-S1. I am very satisfied with my 2nd Gen units. I can get my ATRAC3 fixes with the MZ-S1 anytime. Since SS finally got it's act together, life is good. Now, if we can only get SS to support playback from the unit for mp3 files...

But, I can't say enough about the RH10's OLED. If you are looking for a great Hi-MD to record live music or record in dark settings, this is the unit. However, I do recommend something like the RM-MC40ELK so you can see recording levels (or anything) in bright daylight.

Again, congratulations and welcome to the RH10 club

[sushi]

I bought this cloth from this seller for cleaning my guitar and I use it for more or less everything. I can confirm that it doesn't scratch at all.

I think it could be a good (cheap) investment for RH10 owners.

[Christopher]

From your words I'm not so sure if it will be too entirely useful for you as a recording device compared to the NH700. I look forward to future thoughts on that and espesically how things have changed from the first generation.

Don't worry about the blank disc; I think it's a Japan-only unit thing - my NH900JE didn't come with one either.

I'm glad you got your gift.

[dex Otaku]

From your words I'm not so sure if it will be too entirely useful for you as a recording device compared to the NH700. I look forward to future thoughts on that and espesically how things have changed from the first generation.

The above was basically my first impressions, based on about 2 hours' use.

I plan to make this my main recording unit from now on. The EL screen alone is reason enough to do so in my books. The fact that the featureset and interface is virtually identical to my NH700 is actually something I consider positive, though some might find that odd.

Of all the things I've mentioned so far, the only one that actually irks me severely is the lack of timestamping. Even the ease with which the face can be scratched isn't very important in my books; I fully expect the unit to get worn.

More later.

[dex Otaku]

More notes after a few more days' use:

* The record button is not that hard to press. I was just being impatient. In fact, it's now possible for me to go to record-pause by pressing the two buttons [side-by-side] with my thumb in a rolling motion. So - there's one issue resolved for me.

* The roller takes getting used to. It still skips, but I'm getting there in terms of being able to use it "accurately". I think I will always prefer the wheel on my NH700, to be honest.

* I tried scanning the unit, but the reflectivity of its fach makes it show up as black. Which looked WEIRD in the scan [buttons floating in space with an orange edge on it] .. I didn't bother keeping the scan. Someone else already posted pics of the orange RH10 anyway.

I ran some tests on the RH10 compared to my NH700 last night. The results were bland, but some interesting bits popped out:

* Confirmed the MP3 defect [which is what I'd call it] for myself

* The RH10 comes -very- close to actual line level on its output [or, well, 1Vp-p anyway].

* The mysterious distortion I experienced when putting ultrasonics into the NH700 has now disappeared, and is also not present with the RH10. That's it's gone with the NH700 [when it was plainly present 9 months ago] is baffling me; I had to have made a mistake somewhere along the line.

I'll post the graphs soon.

[KrazyIvan]

I would think you could adjust the jog dealy direction. The 600D lets you change the direction it responds to. Why would they not put it in the RH10?

[dex Otaku]

I would think you could adjust the jog dealy direction.  The 600D lets you change the direction it responds to.  Why would they not put it in the RH10?

←

As I said [though perhaps not clearly] you -can- change it. However - certain functions that use the roller aren't affected by the setting [most prominently, manual record levels].

[mcca6392]

* The NH700 appears to either have a lower-noise mic preamp [by a miniscule amount], or the RH10 has more gain.  I'm not sure which, yet.  I need actual test equipment to really check this out [i.e. things that can actually be used to calibrate the stuff with rather than using my sound card as a point of reference].

Have you tried adjusting the mic gain at all? I know there are some more advanced settings in the REC Options, but seeing as most of the real-time recording I do is line-level (tape the BBC World service at night; listen in the day at work/school), I haven't messed with it - yet.

[KrazyIvan]

As I said [though perhaps not clearly] you -can- change it.  However - certain functions that use the roller aren't affected by the setting [most prominently, manual record levels].

←

Hmmm, I can see where this would lead to confusing operation.

[dex Otaku]

Updated the original post. Scroll up.

[sebastianbf]

great review. thanks

sebastian

[lehnhoff]

I know there was a thread stating that the us version didn't have all the letters of the alphabet, is this also true with the JP model?

Edited June 20, 2005 by lehnhoff

[Ishiyoshi]

I know there was a thread stating that the us version didn't have all the letters of the alphabet, is this also true with the JP model?

←

The Japanese model is perfectly fine; no problems with the alphabet/titling issue.

[dex Otaku]

Updated with more direct comparison to NH700.

[josiane1979]

Dear Dex Otaku,

I'm quite new on the forum, if you don't mind I have 3 questions to ask you, since I'm considering buying the RH10. I have the MZ NH900, so I have to think a little before doing the leap. The MZ NH900 is good, but the RH10 is so stylish...

>>>lack of timestamping is a serious omission

Do you mean the time counter that I could set when recording class lectures and ask the unit to do track marks at each 5 minutes? (sorry, my english is very bad, but I try hard) It is very important for me to know, because I don't want to have to push forward 3 hours of class to hear a little 5 minutes somewhere. Right now, while recording the class lecture, I watch the time running on the unit, and mark in my notes the place where I need to listen. Is that the feature you mean by "timestamping"? This feature is vital for me.

>>>thank bob for the fora [as Douglas Adams would put it], otherwise it would still be in Japanese

I thought I only had to go through the menu to change the langage? I saw somewhere in a post the 3 steps in japanese I had to go through to change the langage. Is this what you mean? If not, what is it because if I buy the unit, I too will have to change the langage. Can you link me?

>>>thank Audiocubes for sending the universal power adapter [regulated!!!]; note that as kurisu pointed out, JP models come with the "world" power supply, so that explains this

Finally, I'm wondering why you needed the universal power adapter if the japanese model come with the world power supply? At audiocubes, they say that if the total before shipping is 400$, they include the "Kashimura TI-101 Japan-US,Canada Transformer" - is this the universal power adapter you are talking about? Because I'm wondering if I need to buy a transformer with my unit when I buy it off audiocubes. Did you get it along with your purchase because your total was at least 400$?

Sorry for the questions, but I read your review (good review by the way!) and I needed to clarify some things before I get serious about buying the unit. Please try to email me when you have posted a reply.

Thank you very much!

[The Low Volta]

Dear Dex Otaku,

as you are new on the forums, you wouldn't have known, but dex has been banned since a serious incident here on the forums... but his posts still are very helpful

in the meantime I'll try and answer this for you...but as I myself do not own an RH10, anyone is free to correct me when wrong of course

>>>lack of timestamping is a serious omission

nope, only the NH1 had this timestamp feature... the autotrackmark you're referring to still exists as far as I know

>>>thank bob for the fora [as Douglas Adams would put it], otherwise it would still be in Japanese

it is changeable through the menus... but as the menu descriptions are in japanese, dex was glad ishiyoshi provided a walkthrough (right here)

>>>thank Audiocubes for sending the universal power adapter

Finally, I'm wondering why you needed the universal power adapter if the japanese model come with the world power supply?

an adapter is a small piece that bridges between different plugstyles (Jap/N-Am in this case) but it still requires the charger to be able to take the voltage supplied by the wallsockets (and that's where the world-model is useful as it can take all voltages I believe)... just read this thread for more info

the other stuff I can't answer, as I have no knowledge of how ordering through audiocubes goes... but I do know that the forums administrator (kurisu) actually ordered dex's RH10 so you could always PM him with some specific questions (and you have to realize that he is quite busy, so it may take a while till he answers)

hope this helps

[Ishiyoshi]

>>>thank Audiocubes for sending the universal power adapter [regulated!!!]; note that as kurisu pointed out, JP models come with the "world" power supply, so that explains this

Finally, I'm wondering why you needed the universal power adapter if the japanese model come with the world power supply?  At audiocubes, they say that if the total before shipping is 400$, they include the "Kashimura TI-101 Japan-US,Canada Transformer" - is this the universal power adapter you are talking about?  Because I'm wondering if I need to buy a transformer with my unit when I buy it off audiocubes.  Did you get it along with your purchase because your total was at least 400$?

←

Indeed, if you purchase the Japanese RH10, it will naturally come bundled with a worldwide AC Adaptor – it has nothing to do with AudioCubes. Obviously, AudioCubes is trying to maximize its profit whenever possible.

the other stuff I can't answer, as I have no knowledge of how ordering through audiocubes goes... but I do know that the forums administrator (kurisu) actually ordered dex's RH10 so you could always PM him with some specific questions (and you have to realize that he is quite busy, so it may take a while till he answers)

←

Kurisu ordered the dex's Japanese RH10 via this reputable Japanese based eBay seller that most of MDCF's member had frequent: buyfromjapan *formerly known as sunnylife_jp

[josiane1979]

Happy to hear that autotrackmark is still on the rh10. If anyone knows that it's not the case, please tell me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I felt that I could still have the 1 year sony warranty with Audiocubes, but not with this ebay seller, even if he has an excellent reputation. At Audiocubes, I think I have 30 days to return a faulty unit for an exchange (if I remember well).

Also, if I understand well I do not need to buy something for the voltage in Canada if I buy a jp rh10? It will be safe to use as is with the electric current in Canada? If not, what should I buy?

Thank you for your help!

P.S. Not aesthetically speaking, are there any reasons why I should keep my nh900 instead of buying the jp rh10?

[Ishiyoshi]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I felt that I could still have the 1 year sony warranty with Audiocubes, but not with this ebay seller, even if he has an excellent reputation.  At Audiocubes, I think I have 30 days to return a faulty unit for an exchange (if I remember well). 

Also, if I understand well I do not need to buy something for the voltage in Canada if I buy a jp rh10?  It will be safe to use as is with the electric current in Canada?  If not, what should I buy?

←

The one year warranty is a standard Sony, Japanese domestic warranty; not of AudioCubes. As for the 30 days return policy, it is a standard RMA to safeguard consumers against manufacture defect. The eBay seller - buyfromjapan - also has a similar refund policy as outlined in their listing: "If you receive a defective or incorrect item, we will exchange for the same item at no extra charge. In such cases, we must receive a report from you via e-mail within 1 week from the delivery date."

As I have mentioned in the preceding post, the Japanese RH10 comes bundled with a worldwide AC Adaptor - 100-240v. Thus, you do not need to buy additional transformer; and it's perfectly safe to use in Canada.

[josiane1979]

Thank you very much for the reply. At least I won't buy something I don't need.

I know the warranty is from Sony Japan, but since I do nit speak Japanee, I would not be able to send the unit to Japan myself for servicing, hence maybe it's easier for me to send it to Audiocubes and let them send it to Japan?...

Also, I feel 1 week is short to notice problems with the unit, I might miss something.

If someone that tested or knows very well both the nh900 and rh10, I'm still waiting on insights to dertermine if I should sell the nh900 and go for the rh10, of just keep the nh900.

[KJ_Palmer]

I have both the RH10 and the NH900. They're very different - the main advantage (to me) of the NH900 is that it can still record directly in the 'legacy' formats (ie. SP, mono, LP2 and LP4) of the old MD and NetMD machines. These options are only available on the RH10- through software downloads.

Well apart from what's already been mentioned, soundwise, the RH10 possibly has a slight edge over the NH900 through its new digital amp, but to be honest there's not much in it... The NH900 has a 'line out' mode, which is very useful for playback and (analogue) recording though external equipment like headphone amps and stereo receivers. The RH10 sadly lacks a line out mode, but one can be approximated by adjusting the sound settings...

Well, l've kept the NH900 and bought an RH10, because, as usual with Sony equipment, they both have valuable, mutually exclusive features which I don't want to miss out on.... So I couldnt say what's best for you.. if you simply want to upgrade and only want the new formats for recording, go for the RH10, it's a worthy successor...

[josiane1979]

Does it mean that if I still have an older MD player, that I can't record an ordinary MD (sp, lp2, lp4) that will play on my MD with the RH10? Can the RH10 only record in HI-MD mode?

[Christopher]

You can record in MD mode only when the unit is connected to the computer. It can only record in Hi-MD mode when recording without a computer connection, e.g. live recording, optical/analog recordings.

[josiane1979]

You can record in MD mode only when the unit is connected to the computer. It can only record in Hi-MD mode when recording without a computer connection, e.g. live recording, optical/analog recordings.

←

Ah, ok. I always record my class lectures on hi-md anHway, but I like to know that I will be able to record oridary mds that will play on my mz-n707. Thanks!

[atrain]

you would be able to record in lp2/lp4 via sonicstage

[Sparky191]

Great review. Really Appreciate it. I have a NH700 and was interested in the difference between it and the RH10. I also really like the scroll wheel on the NH700, but the hassle of having my music as MP3 and ATRAC files would make me consider upgrading to the RH10. I mainly use the MH700 for recording, as I have another MP3 player. I have no legacy stuff, so thats not an issue for me.

[optimistic-pessimist]

I have a few comments about the RH10 to add after spending this past weekend recording several concerts. Live recording is basically the only reason I have ever owned an MD or HiMD recorder, so all my opinions are geared solely towards that purpose.

First, I noticed almost immediately that, in order to see the recording levels, I had to take the unit out of "hold" mode. I suppose this is just an inconvenience, and not truly a problem, but it does take away from the convenience of the OLED display a little.

Secondly, and this is a *BIG ONE*... my unit reacted to interference from my cell phone while recording, and actually put unwanted sound onto my recording. The sound is similar to the noise your computer speakers will make when your cell phone goes off nearby. I don't know how close to the unit a cell phone needs to be in order to cause this... honestly I don't even remember using my cell phone or taking it out at all during the show... but I DO know that my cell phone and the recorder were never side by side. So I guess just remember to turn your cell phone off, and hope that a nearby cell phone won't cause the same problem. I never had this problem with my R910 or R55 in 3 years of use.

Third, I don't like that the inputs are on the top of the unit. On my old R910, the inputs were on the side, and when I put the recorder into the neoprene bag that I use to protect it at concerts, the bag served to secure the mic cable and keep it from rotating or coming out. With the cable inserted in the top, I worry that it's more likely to be pulled out, or rotated, possibly causing pops or scratches in the recording.

To finish up, I've found several things about the RH10 that I don't like, from a live *stealth* recording viewpoint, but I LOVE the sound I'm getting from the PCM mode. Anyone with a discerning ear will tell you that the HiSP mode just doesn't compare to the lossless PCM. So while there are some things that will take some getting used to, I'm hanging on to my RH10 (unless I find a third gen. unit that I like better.)

Edited September 6, 2005 by optimistic-pessimist

[Christopher]

Good thoughts, optimistic. Why have a cellphone on at a concert, though? It should've been off. Furthermore, your first concern seems a bit silly -- you can't scorn the hold function for doing it's intended purpose, but I suppose it would be better if the RH10 could display the levels whilst on hold. For those that have it, if one were to have the RM-MC40ELK, would that work?

p.s. I fixed the graph images in the review.

[veezhun]

Good thoughts, optimistic. Why have a cellphone on at a concert, though? It should've been off.

lol chris but yes, there is disturbance when the cell goes off near the Hi MD while recording..

[The Low Volta]

For those that have it, if one were to have the RM-MC40ELK, would that work?

the RM-MC40ELK has (like all remotes) an individual hold button, and a button that can be used to 'ignite' the backlight without anything else being 'done'... so yes, it could help out for checking levels without disturbing anything

but:

- I believe the RH10 won't allow you to choose continuous backlight for the RM-MC40ELK (which can be done on the NH1 and NH900 and which is even easier to check levels at all times)

- for louder circumstances there is no problem using the remote, but when recording more silent stuff, I've noticed somekind of 'digital jitter' when the remote is moved or when you tough the remote cable (even with the magnetic clamps on)

*BTW: your phone doesn't even have to 'ring' for disturbance to happen... every now and then, the wireless phone network will make contact with your phone... I do not know why, but my phone is right by my radio at night and every now and then I hear the staticky sound coming fromthe speakers when they are active...eventhough nothing apparently happens to my phone

Edited September 6, 2005 by The Low Volta

[veezhun]

you can leave the back light on continuously on the rh10.. the levels are always displayed this way..

as far as the RM-MC40ELK remote is concerened, i dont know..

[Sparky191]

Even when mobiles are off they transmit a signal. Which is how they've managed to find "lost" people in the past. They can boost the base signals and triangulate to locate a mobile within 50m or so. To stop this you have to remove the battery.

[atrain]

Even when mobiles are off they transmit a signal. Which is how they've managed to find "lost" people in the past. They can boost the base signals and triangulate to locate a mobile within 50m or so. To stop this you have to remove the battery.

←

gsm uses a packet burst FM signal, of course this interferes with cables, in the same way radio remotes use the cable as an antenna

[optimistic-pessimist]

Sometimes I'll use my cell phone for time keeping purposes in a show, so I don't have to take the recorder out of my pocket AND out of the protective bag I keep it in. Or occassionally I might text message a friend that's at the show, if I really need to, but certainly not for calling my girlfriend or anything. Won't be taking it in at all anymore, though.

As for the recording levels... yes I would just like to be able to SEE them without taking it off of "hold", not change them, obviously. I didn't think about leaving the OLED display on all the time, but it seems like that would drain the battery a lot faster. Not a concern for shorter shows I guess...

I have one more comment. I've charged and depleted the gumstick battery a couple of times since buying my RH10. The other night, it was completely depleted to where the unit wouldn't play at all. I plugged it into the adapter, hit "stop/ charge" and nothing happened. I checked all connections and made sure the battery was oriented correctly. After several attempts with no success, I took the battery out, charged it in my old R910 for a few minutes, and then put it back into my RH10. The RH10 started charging the battery without problem this time. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[dex Otaku]

..but I suppose it would be better if the RH10 could display the levels whilst on hold.

←

It can display levels while in hold. You just have to set the display to "on" rather than "auto off". It might help to house the recorder in a heavy ziploc bag [transparent or translucent] rather than something made of opaque fabric, too. I do this when recording during rainstorms.

Incidentally, re: the unit recording noise from a celphone, I can't record from a plug-in powered mic at all if using the 35ELK remote. The display updates are plainly audible. I have tried using different RF chokes on both the mic and remote cables, but realised that the problem came because the remote's noise [or strong harmonics of it] is smack in the audio band.

The placement of the mic and remote jacks [side by side] is a large part of the problem as well. Even if the cables are run in opposite directions, the proximity of their jacks/plugs is enough all by itself. For myself at the least, using the remote when recording with a unit-powered mic means audible noise.

Unbalanced microphone cables are basically antennae for all kinds of EM noise. The shorter the cable, the better. In the case of plug-in powered mics, the noise appears to rideon the bias voltage getting to the mics, making it audible. This is related to the problem with trying the record with plug-in powered mics while the unit is plugged in with an AC adapter [both my RH10 and NH700 do this; loud harmonics of 60Hz from the power lines].

d.

[dex Otaku]

If any mod is willing to take the task, I have the original images from this post still and they might be useful to re-insert.