The Low Volta Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I have just started as a concert recordist and I'm quite excited about my first recordings (made under quite bad circumstances as I have very chatty friends and I did my first taping at a mostly outdoors festival which is quite crowdy and rowdy anyways)but to get to the point: I would like to share some clips through the gallery section but I would not want to post anything that isn't legal to post, let alone to have been recorded but I have no idea whether the bands recorded allow bootlegs... I know that some bands (like QOTSA) in some extent allow for bootlegging and even sharing of the recordings... but (and now my actual question)...I was wondering how one finds out about the 'bootlegging-stance' of bands. I have tried checking the offcial sites, but I can't seem to find anything.Safest is to assume that none of the bands will allow it, but that would be a shame as I wouldn't be able to share any of my nice recordings please share your ideas, as I will be recording away and it would be nice to be able to share some from time to time...perhaps we could even make this a start for a 'database' of bootlegger-friendly bands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananatree Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Ones that I can think of off the top of me head:PhishWeenThe Mars Volta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 The Mars Voltaone of my favouite bands, and I had taped them before but with a lousy mono mic and no batt-box/attenuator so in fact I only taped noise good to hear I can try to tape 'em again some day... ween is also good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbeefdog Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Look in the "Legal Notices" section of the official site; often the band's position is in there.Also, if you get to the show and find there's a dedicated "Taper's Section" near the sound board (as there was at the Gov't Mule show from which I uploaded a track to the Gallery), that's a pretty clear sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted August 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I've got a few tips already... some dedicated sharing/taping sites have lists of pro and contra taping bands... this informed me the Blood Brother are taper-friendly so be sure to check out two tracks from their show @ pukkelpop 2005 in the gallery sectionI also spotted this good advice from dex... just check with the publisher or the artist themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyonisus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I know for sure QOTSA lets tapers record. I was in line at a show and a guy a few people ahead of me went in with large mic stands. Their stance on recording is as long as people share and not for profit. I seen a site where you can print out their statement if people from the venue give you problems. QOTSA Taping Policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Don't worry about it, Volta..we're too small to be targetted. Upload as you please, the liability would rest on my shoulders anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) Good to see you thinking along those lines. Personally, as one who works in the area of recording live performances having obtained legal releases first to record and then to broadcast the material, and knowing how sensitive the musicians I work with are to these issues, I find it hard to morally distinguish between "stealth recording" of performances clearly not intended to be recorded, and using cracked software - the former goes without comment here while the latter is, quite rightly, strongly disapproved of.I realise that this is a personal view which probably does not accord with the majority view here - and my comment isn't aimed at anyone in particular - I'm not saying that anyone who does stealth recording also uses illegal software - I'm just putting out the thought that the two issues are connected, for either private reflection or for constructive and considered discussion. Edited August 22, 2005 by ozpeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 In your experiences, oz, do you find many artists not comfortable with people sharing high quality recordings of their concerts?Why do I approve of any and all uploads? Because the focus of the Gallery is not of the intent to share music for exploitation, but to show others interested in the format for recording purposes the power of these devices in a variety of scenarios..greenmachine's various clips are a perfect example of this, and exactly what I wanted to see in the Gallery when I first created it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 In my view, music is a language of the soul, not a product. It has been and should always be free. We're far from the perfect world i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I personally do not think there's a direct connection, nor a real comparison between illegal software and recording concerts...- illegal software = theft, simple as that. You might say that you're stealing from rich evil bastards that overprice their stuff and make illegit use of thir monopoly positions...but that makes you a Robin Hood at best: a good thief, but still a thief- recording concerts (at least for me, I know other ppl might think/act differently) = a personal souvenir of a great occasion (hopefully) that was paid for.Tickets are expensive enough, I do not sneak into venues to tape or tape from right outside the festival grounds. I also am not really interested in downloading concerts I haven't visited. I do appreciate to hear what other ppl do with their recording material... just to see whether my own results are up to standards and to learn from ppl.As far as the commentary that '(stealth) recording = theft as well' is concerned... I do not think so. If there is no official recording sold of the occasion, there is nothing you could pay for... so how can you 'steal' it? This would be different of course if you would try to sell your recording, as that would take possible income away from the band as those ppl perhaps wont buy any official live CD anymore... but as it is the exact show I visited that I want, having my own recording will not alter my CD-buying behaviour at all... although, perhaps it will, but in a positive way... I just went to a three day festival of which I recorded six shows the first day, what bands do you think I really remember? The four best of course... but also the six I recorded. I learn to appreciate the music while listening to the recordings, but it still is different from a studio album, so it makes me even want to buy the CD's even more. So a concert recording is very different from an illegally downloaded single for me at least...so I won't be selling/distributing my recordings, except to the five friends that were with me on the occasion... but I will put up some snippets for ppl to hear what HiMD can do and I won't stop recording shows...BTW: for the ppl who do not want to 'rob' artists this way, I've just put a short clip up in the gallery which was 'performed' by me so all copyright issues are ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Lol, but you seem to also have used proprietary parts to generate sound. Did you ask the manufacturers for permission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmsnyder Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I have just started as a concert recordist and I'm quite excited about my first recordings (made under quite bad circumstances as I have very chatty friends and I did my first taping at a mostly outdoors festival which is quite crowdy and rowdy anyways)but to get to the point: I would like to share some clips through the gallery section but I would not want to post anything that isn't legal to post, let alone to have been recorded but I have no idea whether the bands recorded allow bootlegs... I know that some bands (like QOTSA) in some extent allow for bootlegging and even sharing of the recordings... but (and now my actual question)...I was wondering how one finds out about the 'bootlegging-stance' of bands. I have tried checking the offcial sites, but I can't seem to find anything.Safest is to assume that none of the bands will allow it, but that would be a shame as I wouldn't be able to share any of my nice recordings please share your ideas, as I will be recording away and it would be nice to be able to share some from time to time...perhaps we could even make this a start for a 'database' of bootlegger-friendly bands ←It's not bootlegging if the band allows it. They're called trade friendly or taper friendly. Check www.archive.org for a good list of taper friendly bands. If you ask a band for permission to tape and they say 'yes', document it and add it to the list on the archive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Apart from the possibility of people making money out of their performances without giving them a cut - which is of course not necessarily the case when someone makes a 'stealth' recording, I realise that much of this is a 'for personal pleasure only' pursuit - the musicians I know (largely classical) are very concerned about performances which they were not happy with being perpetuated, and/or subjected to the closer examination which recording enables. Often I've come home with a legitimate recording of what seemed like a great performance, but when I start going over it for editing etc you start to hear the flaws with repeated playing. The best performances for me are always the ones that weren't recorded! Because of digital editing people expect to hear technically perfect performances on recordings, and when they hear they are not in real-life live recordings, they can think less of a perfectly good performer.I think also that there have historically been abuses of trust which make musicians as a breed wary of the recording process. A recording is made for a certain purpose, someone gives a copy to someone else on the side, they make a couple of copies for their mates, and then who knows where it ends up - even if it's only the blank CD manufacturers who are making money from it.There's also the whole aspect of the composers of the music - performance rights and recording rights are often two different things in respect of which separate payments are due - it's easy to forget that aspect (and in some instances where bands do allow their performances of others' music to be recorded, they are possibly overlooking that matter).All issues to be aware of - which is why Mr Volta started this thread in the first place, all credit to him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted August 23, 2005 Report Share Posted August 23, 2005 You can find a lot of taper-friendly bands--and a lot of live hi-fi shows--at www.furthur.net They have their own file-sharing software that hooks you up to a list of authorized bands. I feel no moral compunction about recording a show, any show, for my own use. The musicians got paid to perform, I'm not planning to use the recordings (as ozpeter's classical musicians fear) to damage anyone's reputation, and I'm not distributing them (except an occasional uploaded song in the Gallery). There is no way that an audience recording is going to displace the sale of an album, and no way that any fair-minded listener is going to compare a stage performance to a studio-tweaked one for some kind of nit-picking. Artists are control freaks, and quality control is a big part of maintaining a recording career. But a stage performance can be looser and more fiery and better, or it can be an entire rethinking of a song, which is why all those tapers were at Grateful Dead shows in the first place. Also, bootlegs can be invaluable documents. Example from one of the most control-freak bands ever:The Beatles performed live in the BBC studios in the early 1960's: rare live performances without screaming girls. Due to some freakish notion of economy, the BBC recorded OVER those tapes. The only way those performances were preserved was by fans taping them. The BBC asked fans for tapes (despite admonitions at the time of broadcast that taping was illegal) when they wanted to rebroadcast them, and fans' bootlegs were eventually used for EMI's "Beatles at the Beeb" collection. As Paul McCartney once sang, "and what's wrong with that?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corduroy Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Pearl jam allows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommypeters Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 When Iron Maiden recently played in Gothenburg the concert was televised in Swedish TV. Bruce Dickinson called out "To all of you people who are recording this, see to that you not only spread it in Scandinavia but all over the world"... What temperature would it be in Hell when Metallica said that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonyuhanov Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 when ever i go i usualy go up to one of the organizers or who ever is in charge and ak them if it ok to record the show. They iether say no, or dont say anything, in which case i record it!Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Lol, but you seem to also have used proprietary parts to generate sound. Did you ask the manufacturers for permission? ← haha, I must have overlooked this reply before g. I do think the 'manufacturers' would react very strangely if I asked them for permission... besides, they only provided the basic material, all upgrades have been my own work but seriously...I guess I won't let the pro/contra-taping stance of bands influence my recording behaviour, just that when I do know they don't mind or even support sharing, I perhaps will contribute with my recordings and otherwise it will remain my private souvenir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien_Poop Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 ^^ I hear you man. It's nice that you let them know. It would be a dream to not only get the band's ok, but their encouragement and support (an autographed MD would be nice too). The way I see it is, from the band's position, it's a gret opportunity to not only use fan recordings to improve their live shows, but also to experiment and share with other fans in the form of short clips on their website or an EP or something. How cool would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsoul Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 There is a site that was working until a few weeks ago: Bands That Allow Taping but not sure why it's not working any more. It does take input and edits (when it's working). Not all inclusive by any means but still handy and informative (when working).You can check on Etree for more info about bands or even www.archive.org (exhaustive list). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I've recently recorded a band without asking first (Methadrone), contacted them afterwards per email and - guess what - they didn't mind - they gave me the permission to upload to archive.org and even wanted a copy. Wouldn't it be gorgeous if all bands were open minded like these guys? Conclusion: Ask and thou shallt receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8rken Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 I've recently recorded a band without asking first (Methadrone), contacted them afterwards per email and - guess what - they didn't mind - they gave me the permission to upload to archive.org and even wanted a copy. Wouldn't it be gorgeous if all bands were open minded like these guys? Conclusion: Ask and thou shallt receive.i've done this as well ... contacted the band afterward to see if they would be interested in a copy. they have all said "yes" and have been grateful for the most part, even offering advanced copies of their next cd or tshirt or whatever.my motto: It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission.it works for me, but i know someday i will get "caught" and will have to leave a show. the risk of the stealth taper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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