my first steps as a stealth recordist

[The Low Volta]

edit: added a full (club) show by Mogwai (more info)

Hi all,

as promised... my thorough review of my first real attempt at recording concerts. (soundbites will follow as soon as I know I won't be sued for every cent I've got for putting any of the music on the net ... BTW, for any bandmember out there hoping he could make some money from me: I only intend to record as a souvenir for myself, I will not distribute anything except for a few bits in the gallery overhere and... I am poor :bigsmile: ) *edit: added two tracks from the Blood Brother show

first of, my setup

I used for recording my trusted NH900 (with a 1450mAh gumstick and a 2500mAh NiMH AA in the addon), an RM-MC40ELK remote, some very small panasonic based stereo mics provided by greenmachine (for which, many thank again g.) and a battery module that looks like some bomb ignitor but works wonders (also curtousy of greenmachine...for which even more thanks). As wanted to record quite a bit I opted for HiSP so I didn't need to carry extra discs.

I used some severe stealth smuggle techniques to get all that equipment into the venue (a three-day festival called Pukkelpop in Kiewit/Hasselt/Belgium/Europe/World) as a friend who went a couple of hours before I went told me the security was exceptionally strict for a Belgian festival. I hid the RM-MC40ELK in an empty packet of sigarettes, the mics were already in their croakies attached to my sunglasses with the cable well hidden, stored in a pouch... the batery module and battery addon were in my right sock, with an elastic band to keep it from falling out and the NH900 in its fleece pouch and a plastic freezerbag strapped with an MD-case armband (only the band, not the case) to my left leg and covered by my left sock... Overdoing it, well most definitely as I later even saw two guys who had managed to 'sneak' in an 80's style BIG VHS camera , but this actually was also a test for a good hiding strategy for when I want to take the setup into a club in Brussels where secuity is strict.

I taped using a hip bag (lended from my sister and ultimately uncool ) which held my NH900/battery addon/RM-MC40ELK in the main pouch and the battery module in a small pouch (and all the cables stashed away), the cable going from the batt module up underneath my T-shirt (actually a polo shirt) and extruding at my neck where the cable entered the croakies and led to the mics, positioned on the legs (arms?) of my sunglasses right before (I'm talking mm's here) my ears. This worked very well, but:

a] sunglasses in a dark tent look quite suspicious/stupid so especially for indoor venues I will have to take out my lenses and use my glasses instead

b] croakies and a polo shirt and standing absolutely still at even the best concerts made me look like the biggest dork out there so what's the lesson? do not expect to make a great recording and look sharp

the experience itself

All went much smoother than expected. I had tried out stealth taping before (last january) with my very bad Sony mono interview mic, just to know whether I was able to get the material into a venue and whether I would feel comfy taping without being seen. It had worked (although the result was understandably bad ) but I had been quite nerveous and had been paying attention to the mic all the time, as it was clipped to my collar and I didn't want to brush it with my shirt/chin (unnecessary of course, as the entire thing came out very distorted as I had no batt box/attenuator) so I feared I would be even more uncomfortable with all the wires running on my back/hips. This really was a non-issue. The croakies/hip bag setup was easily forgotten (almost to the extent that I was looking around and ruining the recording due to sickening stereo effects ) except when the sun came through and it got hot. Then the cable running underneath my T started itching and it nearly drove me insane ..; so for indoor venues I'm thinkng double layers and leading the cable inbetween...

I won't say that the RM-MC40ELK is an absolute necessity for recording... as I personally haven't really made a (decent) recording without it, but I'm sure some ppl can get by very well without it (perhaps using a ledlight in dark venues... or an OLED'ed RH10). But it is very easy to be able to look at the rec levels at any time (with backlight permanently on which is possible with my NH900 but not with the RH10 I believe)... I can honestly say that that money ($78) was well spent!

The biggest problems I ran into were all venue-linked and will not be as present in the future:

- it was a three day festival, so I started out with a lossy (HiSP) format, which will not be the case when recording a single show in a club I guess

- most of the shows were outdoors and the weather in Belgium is quite unpredictable. We had very sunny weather, though a tad windy, the first day so recording was ok but the loudness sometimes drifts on the wind. The second and third day they predicted loads of rain, so I left my equipment at home as I'm not working at the moment and would not like to replace anything right now... but in hindsight, there was only very little drizzle both days, so I could have taped just as well...

- no mather how loud the show... the public around you is louder ... so all my recordings suffer from non-wanted commentary and false singalongs, which are also more easily avoided at a smaller indoor venue I guess...

- this was my first big 'day out' with my mates after finishing my masters thesis... standing still and recording was a bit to quiet/controlled an action for such an occasion I was able to control myself that first day, and I taped six (almost) full shows... but then (stimulated by the lousy weather reports as well) I just wanted to hang out with my buds and chat away... as I hadn't seen most of them for a couple of months. I decided quite soon I would keep it a one-day test for future occasions, but I would freely enjoy my festival for now... (in hindsight, I missed the occasion to tape quite a number of brilliant shows I saw like DFA1979, the Pixies, the Arcade Fire, Millionaire, Nine Black Alps, Jimmy Chaimberlin Complex, Maximo Park, The Futureheads, Patrick Wolf, The Raveonettes, Hot Hot Heat, Ghinzu, The Datsuns, South San Gabriel, Sophia, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds I didn't record these... so no need to ask for recordings and for any bandmember from these mentioned: no need to ask for money )

so the results from the Begian jury

The shows I recorded came out very well, even better than I expected. Only the chatty/singing crowd is irritating from time to time. Recording itself was more comfy than expected, just keep cables away from bare skin in hot circumstances as an itch can be hell! Expect all your friends to be begging for CD's as soon as they realize what great recordings (Hi)MD can produce... My hiding skills were a bit over the top but could come in handy when needed for indoor shows. Expect your girlfriend to be looking in complete disbelief when you're lyrical about your experiences and smiling all the time when listening back to the recordings. When recording with the setup I've used (more precisely the near-ear-mic-setup I learned from greenmachine) the recordings do sound much, much better when listened to through headphones >< speakers.

my main point

let's use MD what it was intended for... keep recording! and I'll gladly read all your remarks/comments

PS: sorry for the long post...I hope it was an entertaining read

PPS: I will try to post some pics of my setup if I find the time/feel like it *edit: pics added

PPPS: as said before, I will post some sound-snippets of my recordings once I know it is legal ...*edit: added two Blood Brother tracks to the gallery, see above

*edit: the pictorial

just to make things a bit more lively... a pictorial of my setup...

- all accessories I needed/used

[attachmentid=725]

- the famous NH900 in sock

[attachmentid=726]

-which leads to the NH900 hidden

[attachmentid=727]

- mics hidden in croakies attached to sunglasses (the mics are the small lumps almost at the end of the arms, NOT up front at the glasses as greenmachine explained that that would ruin any stereo imaging)...

[attachmentid=731]

- the greenmachine made mics (with my own mod to attach gator clips and bicoloured heathshrink tube to keep left and right apart) and batt module WARNING from greenmachine: these are not just two batteries taped together... one is only the cover of a battery to protect some electronics! taping two batteries together is dangerous, useless and pretty outright stupid so do not try that

[attachmentid=730]

- the actual recording setup

[attachmentid=728]

- the complete pic: the recording dork (I'm sorry, just made these pics and the polo shirt is being washed, so only an ordinary T)

[attachmentid=732]

feel free to comment

Edited July 21, 2006 by The Low Volta

[greenmachine]

Welcome to the club ... finally.

I can imagine you with your equipment in your socks.

I might be slightly biased, but i think it sounds pretty realistic - not necessarily very good if the PA sucked, but realistic.

[genghisbunny]

So...

What are croakies?

[The Low Volta]

What are croakies?

as far as I know (I only lended the term from the SoundPro site... hadn't heard it myself before that) they are (sport) retainers for eyeglasses. I just bought some woolly/cottony ones with widemazed fabric, cut some holes (and made sure they didn't unravel) in the side that hangs down your neck and inserted the mics till they were protruding right before my ears

just look at the pictorial I added to the first post

[greenmachine]

And remember kids: Never connect two batteries like that or you'll have built a bomb indeed. The second 'battery' in the picture is only used as a container for some electronics and connectors.

[leonyuhanov]

wow you went to way to much effort, but thats awsome!

when i go to live gigs, that i want to record i sualy bring my trusty Sony MZ-N910 with a Lion stick and an extra AA added on, with a self built 2-way "T" Shaped stereo mic, similar to the one sony sells, but at a fraction of the price(the parts cost $3au from radio parts as if id pay $150 for the sony).

i put the MD-unit somewhere on my belt, under a shirt so as not to be seen,(this also is the point on my body which atracts the least amount of shock if i happen to dance a bit hehe) and i strap the mic to my rear jeans pockjet!

never had a crap recording!

Love the mic on the sunnies though! brilliant idea!

Leon

[The Low Volta]

never had a crap recording!

well, not to disrespect you at all leon... if your setup works for you, use it by all means! but I guess we have a slightly different idea of 'crap'... or at least of 'good' recordings:

- T-mics are handy but do not really provide any decent stereo image I have heard

- the mic clipped to your back trouser pocket? have you ever kneeled down at a concert and listened to what you are hearing at your bum's level? I was really glad I grew to 1.75m so I'm no longer the smallest one in the crowd... I started going to festivals at 12 and I was really small back then... for years I thought the sound balance at festivals really sucked, not realizing it sounded pretty great once your ears recieve the music freely, not muffled by all ppl around you... why not use your shirt collar at least? or the top of a hat

Love the mic on the sunnies though! brilliant idea!

it was a combination of ideas... on the one hand the croakies sold by SoundPros, combined with greenmachine's better near-ear placement (but he secures the mics to the arms with permanent shrinktube, which won't work for me as I change glasses way to often) and a search for retainers made out of the right fabric so it would allow the sound to pass through without the mics being visible

[MadMaster]

Nice posting, neighbour!! (I'm from the Netherlands)

I did my first ever stealth live-recording also yesterday.

I had my NH900 Hi-MD and a second battery for it in a small camera-bag which could be clipped to my belt, a batterybox which have a beltclip as well and my mic's, MM-MCMS-4 cardioids with me.

It was an open-air free concert from the Osdorp Posse, an Amsterdam hiphop-group. I thought it would be a nice event to try out my stealth equiment.

While it was low-secured there was no search by security at the gate for anything, so that was a very easy part. My gear was hidden at the bottom of a bag with several pockets and was covered by candy, apples and other stuff I never would use, but I didn't knew before that the security should be at such a low level.

I was wearing a black polo-shirt with a high straight-up collar and a black zipped sweatshirt with a high collar also. At home I had put a piece of foamboard between the two layers of the collar of the sweatshirt, so that it would stand up all the time, like the collar of the cape of Dracula, but not that large.

At the venue I went to the mensroom, clipped my mic's (including windscreens) on the inside of the collar of the sweatshirt at my neck/shoulder-position and let the zipper of the shirt half open, so that the collar (due to the foamboard) made a nice 120 degree angle outwards. The front of the mic's were completly free.

I clipped the MD and the batterybox onto my belt, set the recordvolume to 18/30 (line in) and went out to a spot just right behind the soundboard (25/30 meters away from the stage), no screamers, dancers or clappers were there.

While everything around the mic's was black, including the windscreens, and due to the upstanding collar I was amazed how hard the mic's could be seen. Even when I stood in front of the mirror at home I hardly could see them myself.

With the mic's still on and the shirt/collar open I spoke to several people after the concert and even bought a T-shirt at the merchandise-shop and watched for the reactions of the people in front of me. Nobody even gave a wink....

The recording itself came out better then I had expected, the lyrics could be heard even better then at the show itself. It was a hiphop-gig, so it had a lot of booming bass, but even while I didn't turned on the bass roll off of the batterybox, it sounds amazingly.

The only problem I had were some skips (for 1 or more seconds) on the recording, so I couldn't upload the show by using SonicStage and used the line-in of my PC to upload it manually/analogue. See this topic for more info about that problem. Luckely most of those skips are during the breaks between 2 songs, except for 2 during one song, so after all it isn't that bad....

Tonight I will check the recording on my PC once more and will do some normalizing/equalizing if necessary.

Thanks for all the info about live-recording here at the forum, it was a great support to me!!!

Edited August 22, 2005 by MadMaster

[The Low Volta]

@ MadMaster... glad to read about your positive experiences as well and sorry to hear about the uploading troubles/gaps... sharing these things is very useful to gain more ideas and to learn even more tips for better recordings...

the mics greenmachine sent me are pretty low-sensitivity so I recorded mics->battbox->line in with rec levels (manually of course ) between 20/30 (for the Blood Brothers) and 25/30 (for most other shows) depnding on the loudness of the band playing and the stage (pukkelpop has 8 different stages) I was recording from

[MadMaster]

@ MadMaster... glad to read about your positive experiences as well and sorry to hear about the uploading troubles/gaps... sharing these things is very useful to gain more ideas and to learn even more tips for better recordings...

Yesterday I recorded in PCM/WAV-format, while the concert should only be for about an hour. But the guys had fun on stage and came back for an encore and another and another....

I ended up with only 4 minutes recording-time left....

Because of that I have a question about a disc-change:

How long does it take to stop the recording, wait untill the disc data has been written, remove the disc, insert a new disc, set the REC-volume to manual and finally, start recording again.

Especialy the time that the disc data writing takes after you have stopped the recording makes me worrying to use PCM/WAV-format for longer concerts, which I will visit in the near future...

[The Low Volta]

Especialy the time that the disc data writing takes after you have stopped the recording makes me worrying to use PCM/WAV-format for longer concerts, which I will visit in the near future...

very good question! I wondered about that as well... and when do you guys decide to switch discs? wait till the disc is full or play safe and switch at a pause between songs and hope the pause lasts long enough?

[greenmachine]

Finishing a disc takes about 13-30 sec, depending mainly on how much data there's left in the buffer to write, what kind of disc you use and the position of the write head - you don't really have an influence on it. Changing the disc, set to rec-pause, set manual levels, unpause takes about 10 sec if you're fast. I would try to change discs during a break if i had to.

[MadMaster]

Finishing a disc takes about 13-30 sec, depending mainly on how much data there's left in the buffer to write, what kind of disc you use and the position of the write head - you don't really have an influence on it. Changing the disc, set to rec-pause, set manual levels, unpause takes about 10 sec if you're fast. I would try to change discs during a break if i had to.

I guess everybody with a Hi MD use 1Gb discs, at least I do.

13-30 Seconds for finishing a disc doesn't seem to be that long, I thought it took longer.

But 10 seconds to switch the disc and being ready to go on recording is faster than lightning...

You have to open the MD, remove the written disc and store it somewhere, insert the new disc and wait 'till it's ready, press 'pause/record', then the Menu-button for some seconds, turn the jogdial to RECset or press 'down' 5 times, press 'enter', press 'down' 1 time, 'enter', 'down' and 'return'.

After that you have to hit the pause button to start recording.

Hopefully the bands I will record have an encore-break for a couple of minutes at around 80-90 minutes of the show, switching the disc between 2 songs seems a mission impossible to me.

[MZ-1]

Great experiences!

Things are a bit tougher now.

For a little bit of my early MD live recording experiences, read on...

MZ-1 era:

Concerts:

Preparation.

Sony MZ-1, Sony ECM one-point stereo microphone, three MZ-1 battery bricks, three blank MDs (60 then 74 mins). Make sure the Ni-Cd batteries were freshly reconditioned, the time stamp clock had the proper time. One MD and battery was then preloaded in the player.

Back in the early 90's with the MZ-1 the idea was the "overall presentation" -- dark clothes, don't look like a taper (no wires hanging out) and don't look guilty (make eye contact with the ticket takers and smile).

I wore slightly oversized clothes. Everything went into pockets and didn't look too bulky. I'm surprised the MZ-1 didn't look like a brick swinging around in my pants pocket but it didn't -- maybe the rounded edges helped. A big challenge was going through the turnstiles and not banging the recorder into anything -- a little sideways twist while moving foward did the trick.

Ah! Inside.

The next hurdle was connecting the microphone. This was done while seated. The microphone was retrieve and connected while looking "normal" and not to draw attention to myself by looking "busy" with something. Ushers were always a challenge -- luckilly they usually seemed preoccupied with patrons.

The recording process.

Two and one-half hours of mayhem: The first disc would record smoothly, just slide the "Rec" switch a few seconds before concert start. I wore dark clothes and both the MZ-1 and microphone were Sony's very dark brown/black. No problems there. I could hold the mic chest high and no one noticed. Had to keep an eye on the watch. One battery per disc was the rule, otherwise it would be too complicated to keep track of the unsynchronized MD/battery and too many breaks would occur. Unused batteries and discs in one pocket, spent discs and batteries in the other. Had to choose breaks carefully to maximize disc time (MD blanks were $12USD, then) and battery time. When the time came - stop (writing the TOC seemed to take forever), eject the disc (motorized loading/unloading), slide out the battery, dump in pocket, load battery, load disc, slide "REC" switch. Thank goodness for the switchable AGC and manual recording gain on this unit. All accomplished in a few seconds -- kind of like a race car, pit stop. Given the limited disc/battery time, one had to be mindful of timing encores properly.

Cleanup.

After the show, the lights go up and everything was hastily put away, with the last discs and battery remaining in the unit. Exit was easy.

Clubs:

Clubs were another world. Without a doubt, my best recordings were in clubs. No stealthiness needed. I would simply ask the musician and the answer was always "Yes". Armed with that permission I could ideally place myself and microphone. While some clubs had better sound than others, there was one restaurant/club that would yield incredible results -- excellent stereo separation and tonal balance. In fact, recordings in this same club turned out so well, they were used as bonus tracks in a Japanese CD release of this artitst's music. The MZ-1 would get lots of attention and between sets it was always fun to explain it and give a quick demonstration.

Other recollections:

MZ-R3 era.

Two big plusses and a big minus.

One big plus was the dramatic decrease in size. Bulky by today's standards, the MZ-R3 was about the size and thickness of two packs of cards. Another big plus was the battery management. Regular AA batteries. While R3's drain was still quite high, using a pair of fresh *Lithium* photo AA batteries would give enough juice to last a concert and then some. They weren't cheap but high capacity Ni-MH weren't offered (I think the originals were 1100mah). The "big minus" was, to everyone's chagrin ever since, the introduction of the default AGC setting. After so many years, and no real change obviously this is some sort of "evil plan". While the disc changing was helped by not having the battery change step, navigating the (non-backlit) R3 in the dark to get to manual record mode was a *royal pain*. Still, some nice concert recordings were made with this unit and club recordings (despite the AGC) were quite managable.

Aiwa AM-F70:

Whew!

This was one slick little recorder. Smaller still, no battery problems, configurable manual gain. Sneaking this little jewel in was a breeze. Recording shows with this unit was a joy. It also sounded pretty great also. In my view one of the last, great, pre-LP portable recorders. Disc swapping is still a bit of a problem (as always) but much more manageable. I had lots of fun with this unit.

Conclusion,

Despite the rough conditions all the players have held up remarkably well -- never a mechanical failure. I still have all these units and all work flawlessly. All the recordings still play -- even in the newly acquired MZ-NH10. The NH10 offers some intriguing possibilities:

No battery or disc swap (Hi-SP)

PCM recording (disc swap)

Set the evil Sony manual gain only once (Hi-SP)

I think I'm going to miss the removal of the time stamp feature in the NH10. It's kind of fun to see the date and time of a recording -- brings back some memories.

Paul

[The Low Volta]

wow...that's some (his)story there Paul... I love reading stuf like this! I can honestly say this quickly turned out the best thread I've started so far IMHO

The NH10 offers some intriguing possibilities:

No battery or disc swap (Hi-SP)

PCM recording (disc swap)

Set the evil Sony manual gain only once (Hi-SP)

but just to clear things up a bit... do you mean the

- beautiful NH1 with the great 3line backlit remote RM-MC40ELK which is close to heaven for recordists

- or the RH10 with the OLED which is even more beautiful and almost as handy as the RM-MC40ELK I guess?

if only that manual rec level stuff would get sorted out and we could get slightly higher capacity discs that can capture a full show in PCM and Sony will have designed the easiest recording machine ever

[MZ-1]

Whoops! The MZ-RH10 with OLED. ;-)

I have several of the Sony "10" portables and I get all mixed up: D-NE10, SRF-M10, MZ-N10. Add the MZ-RH10 and I'm sunk...

Haven't taken the RH10 out to a concert/club yet but I'm eager to try.

Over the years I've recorded on MD: in-store appearances, outdoor concerts and recording soundchecks by holding the microphone up to cracks in the venue's doors -- not the best sound but really interesting to listen to as many of the songs are not performed in concert.

Can't imagine going to a show without an MD now.

I do have one disheartening story. On the way to a Johnny Cash concert some years ago, I managed to sneak everything in but the &!@!*& microphone. I left it in the car -- couldn't believe it. What could I do? I enjoyed the show. Mr. Cash then died and that was it. I've been kicking myself ever since.

That was the only and *last* time that ever happened.

Paul

[MadMaster]

On the way to a Johnny Cash concert some years ago, I managed to sneak everything in but the &!@!*& microphone. 

←

That's why they introduced the so-called 'mic-check'...

BTW: Nice stories, Paul!!

[MZ-1]

Right!

Stuck in the venue and nothing to do about it.

At a recent outdoor concert it had rained like crazy about an hour before and the area next to the concert used for parking was being cleared for construction and was mostly powdered limestone. Mixed with the rain, the "mud" was more like liquid cement -- car, shoes, lower extremities, either wet or caked with the stuff. Slicker than snot -- at the time.

Had the MZ-N10 and the Sony ECM-CS10 stereo business mic. I try to travel as light as possible. This place, in my experience, had never "pat down" before but, sure enough, they were doing it this time. I try to keep stuff divided up so as not to to look bulky or have have bulges that would attract attention -- just in case. I empty the wallet except for necessities and keep the MZ-N10 next to it so if I'm asked to take something out, the wallet would look and feel like what was there. Top to bottom they checked. Passed the pat down even though they touched the recorder. Inside! As it got dark, slipped out the mic clipped it to the lapel, ran the mic cord to the pocket -- everything else by feel. Recorded the show, no problems.

Leaving the show the area was still a mess, found some paper to line the car's carpet. The next morning the car and shoes were covered in this stuff now dried -- just like rock. Wet down the shoes and broke off the rock hard limestone, hosed down the car let it set, rinced off what I could and then off to the car wash.

Paul

[greenmachine]

With some experience (stealth) recording ain't that difficult. I pick up my NH700, with a fully charged high capacity NIMH and a blank 1GB disc inserted, put it into my right trouser pocket - pick up the battery box, put it into the left pocket and connect it to the line-in of the recorder, hang my 'recording glasses' around my neck, put it under my shirt and lead the cable between two layers of shirts down my back to the left pocket without connecting it yet. Don't forget earplugs for loud music and a small LED light.

Then it's time to move my lazy ass to the location. Before going in, i connect the mics to the battery module, set the recorder to my recording mode of choice, usually pcm, rec-pause it, set an approximate manual level, put in the hold switch. Time to get in. Take out the (cheap reading) glasses an put them on. Damn, i should've invested in better optics, you feel quite disabled, lol. Nevermind - let's not forget the main intent - to get a good recording. Find a good spot to record and stay there. First band entered the stage. Time to disable the hold switch and un-pause. Use the keychain light to check if you're recording and correct the level setting if necessary. Enable the hold switch again and put the recorder back. For the remaining show imagine to be a statue. Some slight nodding is ok with omnis but don't move around. Set to pause during extended breaks.

First and second band finished. Damn, only 20 minutes left on the disc and i forgot to pick up a second disc. What to do? Erase some part of the first bands? Record only the first 20 minutes of the main act? Set to Hi-SP? Choices. I decided to go the third route. Hi-SP ain't that bad and can be a real life-saver. 90 minutes left. Blessed be high quality lossy compression. Don't forget to set back to manual levels. After the show, un-hold an stop the recording. Don't move for at least 30 seconds until the system file has been written. Put 'hold' back. That's it. Quite some steps to consider, but really a no-brainer with some routine. Get home and get annoyed with SonicStage. Peaks at -4dB - pretty good.

For a visualisation: My setup looks like Volta's but without the bag and croakies, only two thin cables on the back, which are perfectly hidden in long hair. Couldn't be stealthier.

Added three tracks of my last show including Peter Pan Speedrock and two local bands - loud indoor rock - to the live recording archive. Doesn't sound too great - but what do you expect when recording from a stack of speakers? Had much clearer results with unamplified acoustic music.

[Hironiemus]

I do have one disheartening story.  On the way to a Johnny Cash concert some years ago, I managed to sneak everything in but the &!@!*& microphone.  I left it in the car -- couldn't believe it.  What could I do? I enjoyed the show.  Mr. Cash then died and that was it.  I've been kicking myself ever since.

←

Why didn't you use your headphones instead? Or didn't you have them with you?

Edited August 30, 2005 by Hironiemus

[MZ-1]

To reduce bulk, I don't bring in headphones. It was just a fluke (but very unfortunate) accident, never happened again!

Paul

[Christopher]

Volta and greenmachine, thanks for creating an excellent and extremely informative thread. I have no doubt that this will be of great use to the aspiring novice, and I will be sure to utilize some of these tips when I record more in the coming months.

Maybe we should have a little group workshop thread for creating these croakies. I definitely want a pair.

[greenmachine]

But do you have suitable microphones?

[The Low Volta]

thanks for the praise k., I will try to give a (short) explanation how I made the croakies

as far as decent/suitable mics are concerned, I would really advise to make your own mics according to greenmachine's instructions (which can be found around here somewhere) as his mics work very well! Soundpro's or any other small mics with very small or even better removable clips would work to I guess...

regarding the croakies... I do not think whether my way is the best way, but for what it's worth, here it goes:

1. I looked for the 'best' existing croakies to adapt (here's some things to keep in mind):
   • they have to be securely attachable, if the croakies slide, the mics won't be in the same spot and the stereo image/recording will be ruined... in my case, this was more of a problm with the glasses which had very thin arms, so I just wound some tape around the arm so it was thicker and the croakies were held firmly in place
   • the fabric needs to be permeable for sound and accoustic invisibility is even better... so I chose a pretty widely woven fabric
   • if the tubes of the croakies are double (two layers of fabric), you can avoid scraping or other noises from the mics hitting the arms of your glasses
   in my case this lead me to buy some 'Chisco' croakies with widely woven fabric, which seemed close to ideal and actually were the only ones I found that even came close to what I was looking for

2. I cut a hole in each outer tube, near the end that hangs down the backside of your neck. I then, with the very litte sowing skills I have, made sure the hole wouldn't raffle...best is to ask your mom/grandma if you do not know how to do this

3. I inserted the mics and as I had attached the gator clips, they fitted the tubes precisely and didn't need anything extra to keep 'em in place... if yor do not attach clips, or they would be to big... you should look for a way to keen the mics imobile at the right spot (just slightly protuding in front of your ears)

well, that's my method at least... but beware, I do not claim it to be the best possible one, as it was more inspired by impatience than by clear thinking

just some pics to make it all a bit clearer

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[attachmentid=792]

[greenmachine]

Or you can (permanently) attach them with some kind of black tape / heat shrink tube in order not to have to deal with such a thick container: (pictures are self-explaining)

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[greenmachine]

Do croakies work as decent windscreens or is there hardly a difference? I just wonder because attaching the mics without any screen makes them pretty susceptible to wind noises.

[The Low Volta]

Do croakies work as decent windscreens or is there hardly a difference?

I can't really remember having recorded in pretty windy conditions with the mics in croakies but I haven't heard any wind-noises on any of my recordings so perhaps it does work... I will try to do a little test later, as I am interested in having some sort of wind shielding myself, as I would like to record outside venues a lot in the future

[greenmachine]

If you're talking about your recordings at the festival, there propably needed to be hurricane-like wind speeds to have noticable wind noises at this kind of rock concert loudness. Looking forward to your test at lower volume, guess the screen has to be quite larger for proper isolation though.

[Christopher]

But do you have suitable microphones?

←

All I have at the moment is a Delta stereo mic and the SP-BMC-2. I imagine the BMC-2 could be utilzed for this.

[MZ-1]

Why are the battery modules always so large? Even my homemade battery box is large. But, I don't think they have to be.

I can imagine slim inline tube integrated into the cord with no switch -- if the battery is installed, it's working -- use a stack of 3 3.6 Lithium photo batteries.

These "power boxes" (and the associated connectors) are stealth killers, in my view.

Just a thought.

Paul

Edited September 2, 2005 by MZ-1

[greenmachine]

Such miniature lithium batteries are maybe 5x the price at maybe 1/5 the capacity multipied by 3 pieces = 75x more expensive. You would have to use these expensive batteries all the time because you won't be able to use the mics powered directly from the recorders' 'plug-in power' without a connector or switch either. I prefer standard 9v blocks for their low price, availability, durability and simplicity (only 1 pc.) and prefer to have a connector for flexibility even if it might lead to a slightly larger design. I didn't have to worry about where to put the box yet, it fits almost anywhere.

I didn't think much about size issues when designing Volta's box, here's a new size optimized design:

[attachmentid=816][attachmentid=817]

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[The Low Volta]

I didn't think much about size issues when designing Volta's box

haha...it doesn't really matter, I appreciate this 'box' very much! It is long and thin so still easily hideable

here's a new size optimized design

even though that does look small, beautiful and very handy! I must definitely learn how to solder soon (I have some relatives that will teach me and lend me some practice equipment...though I do not know when)

[The Low Volta]

just to let you know I added a number of songs (from different artists) to my pukkelpop 2005 live recording gallery

feel free to leave feedback or questions

[MZ-1]

greenmachine,

Great pictures! Now that's a "box" I could live with!

Paul

[greenmachine]

What does yours look like? I'm always interested in different ideas.

[MadMaster]

Here is the way I clipped my mics to my shirt (as I described on page one of this topic).

I can't clip my mic's tot glasses, because my hairdress is model 'Kojak', so I can't hide the wires. Beside that, maybe croakies would be OK for me, but I start using contact lenses because I hated glasses....

Edited September 6, 2005 by MadMaster

[greenmachine]

Don't you get handling noises with this setup when clothes rub against the windscreens?

[MadMaster]

Don't you get handling noises with this setup when clothes rub against the windscreens?

←

Nope, on the picture you can't see it that good, but the mic's/windscreens are free and almost don't touch anything.

The mic's are clipped on the inside of the upstanding collar of the jacket. In the two layered collar of it I put a piece of foamboard to leave the collar stand up at an angle of about 120/130 degrees upwards and outwards at the front (like the collar of the cape of Dracula).

It was a try after I couldn't find a better option for my cardioids at that moment, but the recording came out great.

Edited September 6, 2005 by MadMaster

[MadMaster]

I just uploaded one track of the first ever recording I made from de Osdorp Posse (a Dutch/Amsterdam hiphop-group, their lyrics are in Dutch) in the Live Recording Archive. It's a 128Kb MP3 and because it's hiphop, the bass can be loudly heard.

Used setup:

MM-MCSM-4 Miniature Cardioid Stereo Microphones (20-20,000 Hz.) -> MM-EBM-1 Elite Battery / Filter Module -> Sony MZ-NH900 -> Cool Edit Pro (analogue transfer)

Click here for the MP3.

Edited September 7, 2005 by MadMaster

[atrain]

i love the osdorp posse! can't understand a word mind you.