Sony_Fan Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 If you listen closely to music burned by using SS 3.4, you will notice that the left channel is a bit louder than the right. This is not the case with SS 3.3, where the both channels seem to be equal. Why doesn't Sony test SS thoroughly before releasing it? I'm not making this up, after listening to the same song burned by SS 3.4 and SS 3.3, I can tell which one is which. The last time i came across uneven channels was with my old MD player. Does the compression process affect the left and right channels? It shouldn't right?******UPDATE ON PAGE TWO******* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artstar Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 If you listen closely to music burned by using SS 3.4, you will notice that the left channel is a bit louder than the right. This is not the case with SS 3.3, where the both channels seem to be equal. Why doesn't Sony test SS thoroughly before releasing it? I'm not making this up, after listening to the same song burned by SS 3.4 and SS 3.3, I can tell which one is which. The last time i came across uneven channels was with my old MD player. Does the compression process affect the left and right channels? It shouldn't right?The compression process takes place on both the left and right channels, naturally, with the encoder's algorithm accounting for encoding the volume of the channels equally. Professional audio software (such as Soundforge, etc.) allow you to choose to normalise and/or dynamically compress L & R channels equally or otherwise separately. But as for that effect on an MD encode in Sonicstage, that's weird.I'm thousands of miles away from my desktop PC and I didn't bother to bring my spare USB cable for my NH1 to try SS3.4 so I can't check this out for myself for at least another month. I'll keep an eye on this thread in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 The compression process takes place on both the left and right channels, naturally, with the encoder's algorithm accounting for encoding the volume of the channels equally. Actually, all atrac3plus modes use m/s joint-stereo encoding. The two channels it encodes are mid/side, the sum and difference of the left and right channels. That said, any differences in levels between normal stereo channels would have to be taking place either before the a3+ encoder [since differences caused by the encoder itself would manifest as either the middle or sides being louder than normal, not one side being louder than the other] or during decoding in the player.I am in the midst of doing some tests with SS 3.4 to see if I can reproduce any of the oddities people are bringing up, and so far, nothing has been reproducable. Everything is working normally.Test encodes done so far: a3+ 192, 256, and 352kbps, "high quality" option turned on, ripped directly from CD.Chris G: You should try encoding something that you know is dual-mono [exactly the same signal in both channels, CDs mastered this way are usually identified with a MONO label on the cover, examples include some early Beatles and Beach Boys recordings] to see if the balance problem happens with that material. If you lack any CDs like that, just make a mono recording and encode it with SS, or take something you're familiar with and use whatever editing software you prefer to convert it to mono, then encode with SS.Please let us know the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 for some 'control' in this test try playing it with a couple of types our ear/head phones too please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 And for further "control" .. use HiMDRenderer to convert the tracks back to WAV afterwards and see what they look like. Mono input should give output with two perfectly-matched channels, level-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 (edited) for some 'control' in this test try playing it with a couple of types our ear/head phones too please.I don't think it's SS 3.4, it's the compression modules it uses. The same effect was produced when I used Simple Burner, left channel a bit louder than right. I'm using the same earphones that I used when I burned with SS 3.3 I spoke to a Sony rep on the website, and asked why SS 3.3 was not available for download. he said you have to buy it now. I'm guessing SS 3.4 has some issues so it's free, and SS 3.3 is better so you have to buy it. I didn't tell him that you could get it for free on this website. Because of this, I'm currently using SS 3.3 and to do the testing you guys are suggesting I would have to re-install SS 3.4 and i don't want to do that. Edited February 6, 2006 by Chris G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 As far as buying SS3.3 is concerned, I may be wrong, but I'm guessing that as it's not the "current" supported version that is supplied as a free download you would have to buy it from Sony Support on a CD.I think you're reading too much into it to suggest that 3.3 is better therefore you have to pay for it. I'm sure 3.4 went through the same tests as 3.3 did before it was released to the general public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 As far as buying SS3.3 is concerned, I may be wrong, but I'm guessing that as it's not the "current" supported version that is supplied as a free download you would have to buy it from Sony Support on a CD.I think you're reading too much into it to suggest that 3.3 is better therefore you have to pay for it. I'm sure 3.4 went through the same tests as 3.3 did before it was released to the general public.Either way, the left channel is still louder than right with SS 3.4 modules. I'm pretty confident this is the case. That is a defect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-1 Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I encoded some early '60s "British Invasion" monophonic recordings with SS3.4 at 192k on MZ-RH10 and listened to with a direct connection to the headphone jack with Sennheiser PX100. The results were perfectly centered to my ears. Swapped the headphone drivers around. Still centered.Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I encoded some early '60s "British Invasion" monophonic recordings with SS3.4 at 192k on MZ-RH10 and listened to with a direct connection to the headphone jack with Sennheiser PX100. The results were perfectly centered to my ears. Swapped the headphone drivers around. Still centered.PaulWhat version of SS 3.4 are you using, U.S. or Euro? The issues I've discussed are related to the U.S. version. I'm not imagining this, the unbalance of channel volumes were noticeable the first time I used SS 3.4 But again, it's probably not SS 3.4, it's the modules it uses. I hope Sony reps read these posts. They should know better than to release software that has bugs and assume it's users will not notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 i think 3.3 standalone is still in our download section for a couple of weeks. download it if you want, at least for archive purposes.they'd make you pay for it btw, because it's not a current version online so they'd almost certainly send you a disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 i think 3.3 standalone is still in our download section for a couple of weeks. download it if you want, at least for archive purposes.they'd make you pay for it btw, because it's not a current version online so they'd almost certainly send you a disk.Is the SS 3.3 in the download section the U.S. or Euro version? I downloaded it and installed but there is no Connect Store. The U.S. versions have Connect Store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 asia pacific iirc, no connect store. if you want the connect store then it's no good to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 asia pacific iirc, no connect store. if you want the connect store then it's no good to you.Well, can you get me a link to the U.S. version of SS 3.3. Software for U.S. and Europe are not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Well, can you get me a link to the U.S. version of SS 3.3. Software for U.S. and Europe are not the same.Why don't we go back to the beginning, shall we? Post your system specs according to the forum rules, and most specifically, the module versions being used by SS, as listed in help->about.To my knowledge the only difference in the release versions of SS from different regions is where the Connect store points to [which can be changed by editing the URL in SS's registry settings]. The module versions should be identical in each region.Also:* what is the source of the tracks you're encoding? CD? MP3s? You haven't specified.* does the balance problem occur when playing in SS as well as on your portable? You haven't specified.* if yes to the above, have you tried downloading HiMDRenderer and converting one of those mono files back to WAV, and comparing channel levels? Or for that matter, uploadinga short chunk of the resulting WAV [or better, FLAC] file so that we can check it out?* how about sending one of us one of your mono SS-encoded files so we can compare them ourselves [being sure to encode without copy protection]? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 To my knowledge the only difference in the release versions of SS from different regions is where the Connect store points to [which can be changed by editing the URL in SS's registry settings]. The module versions should be identical in each region.i second this whole post although i would point out that asia-pacific sonicstage dosn't have the connect add-on module at all as there is no connect store in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-1 Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 What version of SS 3.4 are you using, U.S. or Euro? The issues I've discussed are related to the U.S. version. I'm not imagining this, the unbalance of channel volumes were noticeable the first time I used SS 3.4 But again, it's probably not SS 3.4, it's the modules it uses. I hope Sony reps read these posts. They should know better than to release software that has bugs and assume it's users will not notice.USA version of SS 3.4. I also listened to monophonic transfers made with SS 3.3 (USA Version) and the tracks were centered with that version as well.Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted February 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Earlier I posted that the modules in SS 3.4 give a higher volume on the left channel than the right after compression. I was wrong. Upon further testing it is not the volume that is off balance, it is the high frequencies. The left channel responds more to high frequencies than the right channel. This was confirmed when i switch the earphones around and when using different head phones. If you notice this, please post your findings. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Earlier I posted that the modules in SS 3.4 give a higher volume on the left channel than the right after compression. I was wrong. Upon further testing it is not the volume that is off balance, it is the high frequencies. The left channel responds more to high frequencies than the right channel. This was confirmed when i switch the earphones around and when using different head phones. If you notice this, please post your findings. Thanks. Are we talking Atrac here or MP3? What bitrates? Have you tried re-encoding an album (at the same bitrate) with 3.4 that you have a copy of that has been encoded with 3.3 or earlier and compared the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Chris, I welcome topic creation, but please post software related inquries and discussion topics in the Software forum in the future, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Upon further testing it is not the volume that is off balance, it is the high requencies. The left channel responds more to high frequencies than the right channel. This was confirmed when i switch the earphones around and when using different head phones. Let's repeat all the same questions then, shall we..* list your SS module version #s from the "about" box* what is the source of the problem tracks? MP3, WAV, ripped CD, other?* does the problem occur at all a3/+ bitrates or only with [a] specific rate? If so, what rates?* could you please encode a track without copy protection [do it with something public domain or CC], verify that it has the problem, and upload it for us to hear?* as a suggestion for what to encode and upload: get a test file of white noise or a tone sweep; while these can't show every defect, anything severe that is going wrong during encoding will usually be immediately audible [and visible] this way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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