Sony MZ-RH1 in my hands (first quick impressions)

[dogville]

Any good advice after I unpack it?. Should I do anything before using it for the first time regarding battery charge and so on?

Thanks for the advice about the battery. I've done so, 3 hours and a half

Impressions (quick because I've hardly use it for 1 hour)

PROS

· Impressive sound

· Quick download from sonicstage at 256 kbs (the only bitrate I've tried up to now)

· Nice construction and display in the unit

CONS

· Volume output is a bit low in semi noisy places. Shame on you European Community . Although, 0.5 mw more doesn't solve this problems either . I think output should be like my old minidisc MZ-E20, 9 mw.

· Battery could last longer

I don't know if the machine can be use without the battery from the AC plug. It would be nice since this way, you could remove it and use it anyway. If I remember right, the rh-1 charges the battery on being connected for uploads/downloads; I'm not sure if this is good for the battery to be charging continously when it shouldn't be necessary. ¿opinions?.

regards

Edited July 25, 2006 by dogville

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Any good advice after I unpack it?. Should I do anything before using it for the first time regarding battery charge and so on?

As hard as it is not using it right away - but for a completely accurate battery meter try to charge it for a full 3 hours before first use. Enjoy!

[bobt]

Put disc in, plug in headphones/remote, press play, enjoy, tell us about itBob

[smkranz]

Any good advice after I unpack it?. Should I do anything before using it for the first time regarding battery charge and so on?

Find a clear screen protector product such as for a PDA, GameBoy or PSP, cut it to the size of the screen and apply.

[dogville]

I will buy it tomorrow and attach it to the display. Thanks.

Put disc in, plug in headphones/remote, press play, enjoy, tell us about itBob

Wise advise,sure

[The Low Volta]

as the battery is LiIon, partly charging doesn't hurt it a bit, deep discharging does however! better not to use it till it shuts down itself for lack of battery power, just use it abd set it to charge whenever you can...

read more info on battery use at www.batteryuniversity.com

[dogville]

as the battery is LiIon, partly charging doesn't hurt it a bit, deep discharging does however! better not to use it till it shuts down itself for lack of battery power, just use it abd set it to charge whenever you can...

read more info on battery use at www.batteryuniversity.com

So I'd better wait until de battery is nearly worn down?

What does abd set mean?

thanks

Edited July 25, 2006 by dogville

[Avrin]

Fully charge and recharge the battery a few times. But do not let it discharge too deeply. Just use the unit until it shuts down, and then connect the adaptor to fully recharge the battery. There are rumours about modern batteries dying after a full discharge.

Problems with deep discharge do not apply to all Lion batteries though. Being a semi-pro video operator, I ALWAYS fully discharge my SONY Info-Lithium batteries after recording, and store them in this state. Then I charge them fully just before the next recording. This way my two 10-year old batteries are still able to give me 2 hours 30 minutes worth of continuous recording each. Exactly the same time as 10 years ago! And these were REALLY heavily used! Though I wouldn't advice experimenting with Hi-MD batteries and units.

As for additional charge when connected to the computer, I don't think it is really good for the battery. Simply open the battery compartment lid when connecting the unit to the computer. I do this everytime I connect my RH10 to my computer (not very frequently though). Recharging from computer HAS messed up with playback time of my RH10 (not permanently).

Edited July 25, 2006 by Avrin

[The Low Volta]

Avrin: RH10 uses another battery type as RH1 (NiMH >< LiIon) and what you are saying just mixes the (very different) guidelines for both battery types and could confuse ppl

here's a very simple guide:

so...

NiMH (NH900, RH910, RH10):

- discharge fully (not overly deep) once in a few months and charge fully each time

- avoid partial recharging through USB

LiION (NH1, DH10P, RH1):

- does not matter when to charge

- partial charging is ok

[e1ghtyf1ve]

I was referring to the meter/charging circuit, not the battery. Check the manuals...

cheers

[dogville]

As for additional charge when connected to the computer, I don't think it is really good for the battery. Simply open the battery compartment lid when connecting the unit to the computer.

I think it is a good idea to remove the battery while connected to the computer. But one doubt, does the rh-1 work with no battery in, connected only through the usb cable?

thanks

[Avrin]

The Low Volta: The problem here is that there REALLY WERE cases of MODERN LIION batteries dying after a complete (forced) discharge. AND partial recharge of a LiIon battery DOES NOT lead to optimal playback time. A full discharge/recharge cycle is always preferred. But never try to discharge ANY battery further after the unit stops working with it - just plug the adapter and recharge.

And I KNOW differences between different types of batteries from many years of personal experience with various devices. Never had a dead battery as a result of my fault. Actually had only one dead LiIon notebook battery because of internal cell failure (manufacturing defect - confirmed).

Try to get 10 years of service from a pair of LiIons!!! I did. And they will probably work for a few years more.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Avrin

[Sparky191]

There should have a charging off on/off switch devices like this, and laptops etc. I have a dirt cheapo portable CD that has this simple feature.

[dogville]

A full discharge/recharge cycle is always preferred. But never try to discharge ANY battery further after the unit stops working with it - just plug the adapter and recharge.

I'd heard something like that. I heard li-on batteries should discharge from tieme to tiem. Now I'm in a mess to choose method is most convenient:

1/ Recharge always before it wears down

2/ Fully discharge every now and then

[The Low Volta]

@ e1ghtyf1ve: you are right... see the 'how do I prepare a battery with charge indication' part. I on the other hand wasn't really responding to you remark, but to the thing dogville said in his first post:

If I remember right, the rh-1 charges the battery on being connected for uploads/downloads; I'm not sure if this is good for the battery to be charging continously when it shouldn't be necessary.

and added the part about not charging too deeply as extra info. Still even with a charge indication, a full discharge/charge cycle is only needed once every half year... so to recap...

for optimal performance:

--> first to make sure the battery indicator works correctly (i.e. this is not necessary for the battery, only for the indicator and should only be done once and perhaps repeated once each 6 months):

- charge the battery fully = till the charging indicator turns off (+/- 1 hour) + at least two more hours as it is only charged till 80% at first and needs a lot of time to charge further

- let it play (or just use it) till it turns itself off because of a depleted battery (do not turn it back on, even if it will do so...this deep discharges the battery, which is bad)

- recharge it again fully (100% so the normal charge and 2 more hours)

--> secondly, for daily use:

- just use he RH1 for as long as you need to (or till the battery is depleted...but do not turn it back on if it turns itself off because of low battery)

- whenever you have some time in which you're not using it, plug it in (AC or USB) or plug it in each night before going to sleep

- do not remove the battery when connecting through USB, as it is OK for the RH1 to charge partly (= actually better than full discharge/recharge for LiION) and it will atuomatically stop charging so continuous (over)charging won't happen...The only thing removing the battery each time will do is to wear out the battery latch more quickly so the RH1 becomes ultimately unusable

PS @ Avrin: see the part about 'should I use up all battery energy before charging?' in the table I posted earlier... LiION is best if is not fully discharged often (not only deep discharged as this will kill it instantaneously, but also just fully discharged = till the machine turns ittself off for lack of power)

although decent equipment will make sure it turns itself off before the battery is fully discharged, best not to do this too often (= just a little precaution)

a full cycle (each month according to the table above and each 4-6 months according to my own experience) is needed, NOT for the battery itself (it is slightly harmful for the battery) but to reset the charge indicator so your machine doesn't think the battery is empty when it still has quite a bit to go --> still this is resetting the machine, not the battery!! and it isn't needed, heck not even really good for the battery itself

[e1ghtyf1ve]

@ e1ghtyf1ve: you are right... see the 'how do I prepare a battery with charge indication' part. I on the other hand wasn't really responding to you remark, but to the thing dogville said in his first post:

and added the part about not charging too deeply as extra info. Still even with a charge indication, a full discharge/charge cycle is only needed once every half year... so to recap...

for optimal performance:

--> first to make sure the battery indicator works correctly (i.e. this is not necessary for the battery, only for the indicator and should only be done once and perhaps repeated once each 6 months):

- charge the battery fully = till the charging indicator turns off (+/- 1 hour) + at least two more hours as it is only charged till 80% at first and needs a lot of time to charge further

- let it play (or just use it) till it turns itself off because of a depleted battery (do not turn it back on, even if it will do so...this deep discharges the battery, which is bad)

- recharge it again fully (100% so the normal charge and 2 more hours)

--> secondly, for daily use:

- just use he RH1 for as long as you need to (or till the battery is depleted...but do not turn it back on if it turns itself off because of low battery)

- whenever you have some time in which you're not using it, plug it in (AC or USB) or plug it in each night before going to sleep

- do not remove the battery when connecting through USB, as it is OK for the RH1 to charge partly (= actually better than full discharge/recharge for LiION) and it will atuomatically stop charging so continuous (over)charging won't happen...The only thing removing the battery each time will do is to wear out the battery latch more quickly so the RH1 becomes ultimately unusable

PS @ Avrin: see the part about 'should I use up all battery energy before charging?' in the table I posted earlier... LiION is best if is not fully discharged often (not only deep discharged as this will kill it instantaneously, but also just fully discharged = till the machine turns ittself off for lack of power)

although decent equipment will make sure it turns itself off before the battery is fully discharged, best not to do this too often (= just a little precaution)

a full cycle (each month according to the table above and each 4-6 months according to my own experience) is needed, NOT for the battery itself (it is slightly harmful for the battery) but to reset the charge indicator so your machine doesn't think the battery is empty when it still has quite a bit to go --> still this is resetting the machine, not the battery!! and it isn't needed, heck not even really good for the battery itself

Volta, the battery manufacturers will hate you for posting these tips The LiIon battery that came with the MZ-R50 is still going strong...

[greenmachine]

Don't have Li-ions (like any rechargeable battery) a limited lifespan (cycles) and fully discharging each time would just cause unnecessary wear? Professional use differs from consumer use.

[Avrin]

The problem here is in the controller (which is absent from MD batteries). It may treat partial discharges/charges as complete cycles. And the charge indicator on an MD unit IS NOT a controller.

And don't be afraid if you accidentally turn on the unit, which has a depleted battery. One or two times won't hurt. But NEVER do this on purpose.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Avrin

[Sparky191]

I had a portable CD Panasonic CT700 on holiday a few years back, and left it on the AC charger listening to speakers. It killed the internal batteries in a few hours.

[dogville]

I had a portable CD Panasonic CT700 on holiday a few years back, and left it on the AC charger listening to speakers. It killed the internal batteries in a few hours.

That's why I would like to know (nobody's answered this to me yet ) if the battery can be removed and the machine used through the usb/ac cord. I don't know if this last thing is possible on the rh-1. Do the usb cord feed the machine without battery in?

??????????

Edited July 25, 2006 by dogville

[e1ghtyf1ve]

That's why I would like to know (nobody's answered this to me yet ) if the battery can be removed and the machine used through the usb/ac cord. I don't know if this last thing is possible on the rh-1. Do the usb cord feed the machine without battery in?

??????????

Apologies - our RH1 is extremely popular and hard to get to sometimes

The answer is yes - it works fine on AC with the battery taken out.

cheers

Edit: PS Note to self: must order additional RH1 units ASAP...

Edited July 25, 2006 by e1ghtyf1ve

[dogville]

Apologies - our RH1 is extremely popular and hard to get to sometimes

The answer is yes - it works fine on AC with the battery taken out.

cheers

Edit: PS Note to self: must order additional RH1 units ASAP...

Thanks

[The Low Volta]

@ greenmachine: a LiION battery suffers much more from:

- bad storage (storing it fully charged, fully discharged and/or at hot temperatures)

- deep(ish) discharging it (to often)

I will quote the BatteryUniversity some more:

as far as I understand it and have noticed myself it doesn't suffer from memory effect (which is what causes loss of power in NiMH)

Lithium-ion is a low maintenance battery, an advantage that most other chemistries cannot claim. There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery's life.

still LiION will simply lose capacity over time (used or unused, so not bound to cycles and often even faster unused because of bad storage circumstances)

Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications.

but

Manufacturers are constantly improving lithium-ion. New and enhanced chemical combinations are introduced every six months or so. With such rapid progress, it is difficult to assess how well the revised battery will age.

Edited July 26, 2006 by The Low Volta

[Avrin]

dogville: Any device works better on AC with the battery taken out, because it does not have to recharge the battery.

And, in your case, the unit will work OK when connected to a computer via USB without the battery inserted.

And now a really personal question: Do you know that various versions of ITCOTCK are really useful for testing audio encoders?

Edited July 25, 2006 by Avrin

[reefbeef]

CONS

· Volume output is a bit low in semi noisy places. Shame on you European Community . Although, 0.5 mw more doesn't solve this problems either . I think output should be like my old minidisc MZ-E20, 9 mw.

Try the sound setting 'normal d' This seems to ouput much higher levels than 'normal' Maybe it's just making the soft passages louders - not sure. But, for my live recordings that are a little low in volume, this helps a lot.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Try the sound setting 'normal d' This seems to ouput much higher levels than 'normal' Maybe it's just making the soft passages louders - not sure. But, for my live recordings that are a little low in volume, this helps a lot.

Yes, normal d normalizes and compresses the dynamic range, which limits loud passages and bumps up the softer parts...

[dogville]

And now a really personal question: Do you know that various versions of ITCOTCK are really useful for testing audio encoders?

Please Avrin, explain that because I have no idea what you are talking about?

Try the sound setting 'normal d' This seems to ouput much higher levels than 'normal' Maybe it's just making the soft passages louders - not sure. But, for my live recordings that are a little low in volume, this helps a lot.

I don't remember what setting I have now on, but when I get home I will tell you. Maybe U?. Not sure . By the way, It is difficult to set the custom EQ, How do you all set it?. Well, take into account it's my second day with this cuttie and hardly 2 hours use

Edited July 26, 2006 by dogville

[Avrin]

dogville: ITCOTCK = "In the Court of the Crimson King" = the album from which your avatar came from: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00065M...ce&n=229816

This album was initially recorded with some serious inter-channel phase shift problems, and only a really good encoder can handle them in such a way that it sounds good.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Avrin

[The Low Volta]

dogville, what headphones are you using with the RH1?

I use either my Panasonic RP-JE50 in ear (so good passive noise blocking) or Sennheiser PX100 and both seem to be more than adequately efficient as I can use the great greenmachine-eq-setting (all bands -1 or lowest band -1 and the rest at -2) for a bit of deep bass boost (which lowers overall output volume a bit) and still get enough volume at 16-20/30 (depending on the environment) though the PX100 (because of their open design) are not really suitable for listening in (semi-)noisy environments, even at an unhealthy loudness

[dogville]

dogville: ITCOTCK = "In the Court of the Crimson King" = the album from which your avatar came from: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00065M...ce&n=229816

This album was initially recorded with some serious inter-channel phase shift problems, and only a really good encoder can handle them in such a way that it sounds good.

My god, what a fool I've been !

thanks

[dogville]

dogville, what headphones are you using with the RH1?

I use either my Panasonic RP-JE50 in ear (so good passive noise blocking) or Sennheiser PX100 and both seem to be more than adequately efficient as I can use the great greenmachine-eq-setting (all bands -1 or lowest band -1 and the rest at -2) for a bit of deep bass boost (which lowers overall output volume a bit) and still get enough volume at 16-20/30 (depending on the environment) though the PX100 (because of their open design) are not really suitable for listening in (semi-)noisy environments, even at an unhealthy loudness

PX100 and I assure you my ears are in perfect condition because I don't like to listen to the music over the 50% of the output. I don't like in ear type. I'm plying them at 14-20 like you if I'm at home. I haven't tried it in the street yet. I had a pair of PX200 which are closed and the isolation was "none". I like the PX100 for its excellent overall sound quality. I don't know if there are better than this, but I could bet no. I also use the KOSS KC55 very very very good too. I'm afraid that if the place, street etc is too noisy, less than 30 is no good. It's true as well that it is not worth listening to music in noisy situations, isn't it?

Rergards

[Sparky191]

I have the Panasonic RP-JE50 and don't really enjoy them. I have PMX100's and find them a little bassier than I'd ideally like. How do the KC55 compare? was thinking of getting a pair of them myself. Most of the time I just use MX500's.

[dogville]

I have the Panasonic RP-JE50 and don't really enjoy them. I have PMX100's and find them a little bassier than I'd ideally like. How do the KC55 compare? was thinking of getting a pair of them myself. Most of the time I just use MX500's.

If you don't like px100 maybe Koss Kc55 either. For me, the base of the senn MX500 is quite poor. Up to now, I haven't found better headphones than the px100

[Sparky191]

I find theres too much bass with the PMX100 it drowns the mids out. Which is why I prefer the MX500's. You hear more detail in the mids.

IMO of course.

[The Low Volta]

if you are playing at 14-20/30... why complain that the RH1 isn't loud enough? You've still got 10 increments left to raise volume. If 20/30 is a bit too quiet, you don't have to go for 30/30... 23 will be louder already without going into the (distortion prone?) last couple of notches.

with efficient phones, the RH1 is more than loud enough (even the unhacked European version) and the line-out mode works great with stereos etc...

PS: I have got the Senn MX 350 and 450(=exactly like the 550 but without the volume control) and I must agree with dogville that they lack bass... still they are good buds and the lack of bass can be eq'ed. I use them very little (only in the gym) mostly because they are quite big for my ears and do not provide a comfi listening experience (I don't mind as much working out, as I'm definitely not comfi then whether the phones are or not )

[philpem]

There should have a charging off on/off switch devices like this, and laptops etc. I have a dirt cheapo portable CD that has this simple feature.

And then you'll have people whining at the customer service reps that their laptop won't charge. They'll return the laptop.. and the "charge enable" switch will be in the "Off" position.

Generally, with Li-ions, you can't leave them on charge all the time (unless you like the idea of the battery ejecting flaming electrolyte and other crap through the safety vent). All Li-ion chargers detect end-of-charge and stop charging the battery when that point is reached. Well, there are the cheap "import" and "non-OEM" chargers that are cheap for a reason, but given that Sony actually makes Li-ion batteries themselves (via their Sony Energytec division), you'd expect them to know what they're doing

[e1ghtyf1ve]

And then you'll have people whining at the customer service reps that their laptop won't charge. They'll return the laptop.. and the "charge enable" switch will be in the "Off" position.

Generally, with Li-ions, you can't leave them on charge all the time (unless you like the idea of the battery ejecting flaming electrolyte and other crap through the safety vent). All Li-ion chargers detect end-of-charge and stop charging the battery when that point is reached. Well, there are the cheap "import" and "non-OEM" chargers that are cheap for a reason, but given that Sony actually makes Li-ion batteries themselves (via their Sony Energytec division), you'd expect them to know what they're doing

Exactly. Everytime I need to recharge my MT2496 (cheap sealed battery in an even cheaper case) I have these horrific visions of the flaming unit posted on taperssection... If I hadn't paid $400 for that thing I would have thrown it out long ago!

cheers

[nles]

If you guys use PX100, will you use the supplied remote?

Without the remote you can't browse through your collection cause there's no title shown, but with the remote, the headphone cord will be so long.

[jaylen]

For long portable-headphone cords, try a Sumajin Smartwrap (or a simple twisty-tie). Works pretty well.

[atrain]

i use cable ties on my [3m] audio technicas, i'm never using more than 1.5-2m