Bye Bye Doggy (which Hi-MD unit disappointed you most)

[1kyle]

My RH10 has finally GONE --gave it away to a relative.

This unit whilst technically not the worst has been the unit that gave me the greatest disappointment. It could have offered so much but ended up IMO being a real DOG.

The only positive thing I can say about the unit was that it had a beautiful screen for play back.

The rest of horrors this had are really legendary and will probably be used by future marketing / design students as perfect text book examples in how NOT to design a product.

Small list of the horrors

Unit far too thick.

Unit too plasticy so case can scratch and crack fairly easily.

Battery latch really too weak. I easily broke one just opening it to change the battery.

No Line out so not so good for for playing through high end equipment.

Hack needed to get custom equalisation / higher output as there's no line out you really have to carry out the hack - for the average user this is really a No No.

Actual sound quality output not as good as N1 or RH1.

Let's see what units have disappointed you.

Sony did redeem themselves however IMO with the RH1. This has far exceeded my expectations.

Cheers

-K

[The Low Volta]

well, I haven't bought it myself (but a collegue/good friend did) and I must agree with you that the RH10 was quite disappointing for me personally. I think ppl who wanted a player>recorder might have liked it, but for me personally it had nothing over the NH900 (except the screen, but I did have an RM-MC40ELK and the RH10 < NH900+RM-MC40ELK)

YMMV, but I think the RH10 was just a symptom of Sony chosing 'style' (well the shiny plasticy style they have also tried on the big HD-MP3 players) over functionality and quality

glad they designed the RH1 after they learned that at least the MD-community isn't really interested in plastic MP3-player style but want a (good llooking) metal and fully functional recorder (well most of them... I know one person at least here would surely disagree and for some (well actually just one) other(s) all Sony HiMD's are a disappointment as they do not offer super mega overdrive who-needs-full-frequency-music-if-you-only-listen-to bass (just kidding...please guys, just take this as the joke it is and do not start those 'one argument' discussions again)

[UMWOOFWOOFF]

They have ALL been disappointments; for the very fact that Sony never made a home deck or car deck. The format (Hi-MD) was dead from the start without home/car decks. I was the biggest supporter of MD with WAY too many home decks to count. I never jumped to Hi-MD due to the lack of a home deck/car deck. I'm sure there are a thousand people just like me. Sony killed Hi-MD from the get-go.

Then, Sony gives the big send-off with the RH-1 (the last MD unit to be produced...even blank MD's are disappearing everywhere) with the ability to rescue your old MD recordings and transfer them to the computer so they're not trapped on an obsolete format.

The biggest joke was Sony supposedly moving Hi-MD to their "professional products" section. Got news for ya Sony...without a rack-mount deck, this venture is POINTLESS. Sure, journalists and stuff might use the thing, but there are tons of options for that type of use that actually have manufacturer support, and you can actually buy them in stores (let alone no Hi-MD discs anywhere anymore).

I chuckle at the blind people who talk about "fourth generation" and STILL the possibility of home decks...or those who talk about Sony "moving to the professional market". PUH-LEEEEEEEZ...

So...the biggest disappointment? The fact that Sony killed this format. Pisses me off. A LOT. I've given up. Sadly, MD is dead. Bye bye doggy...

[1kyle]

..even blank MD's are disappearing everywhere) with the ability to rescue your old MD recordings and transfer them to the computer so they're not trapped on an obsolete format.

I'm not sure where you do your shopping - but even Morrison's supermarket (at least my local branch --Springfield Way near Hull / Anlaby/Haltemprice in E. Yorkshire) has LOADS of MD blanks including the Sony blue 1Gb discs. Never ever seen so many blank MD's in a supermarket before.

Remember this format is primarily aimed at people who want to RECORD stuff. For pure playback an Ipod or equivalent might be fine for you --most MP3 compressed format music I listen to is not acceptable --too many artifacts etc etc. Not the Mp3 format per say --just the compression people apply to their music.

For a portable recording medium there is still a LOT of life left in MD. DAT is basically dead and there isn't any other format available.

Forget the "Great Unwashed". MD isn't aimed anymore for people who simply want to use their portable music device as a playback machine.

Cheers

-K

Edited August 15, 2006 by 1kyle

[A440]

For a portable recording medium there is still a LOT of life left in MD. DAT is basically dead and there isn't any other format available.

Well, wait a minute. There are line-in hard-drive recorders from Iriver, Cowon, etc.

And there are flash recorders like the Edirol R09 and the M-Audio Microtrack.

For the moment MD is still the most inexpensive and most recording-friendly (track marks, level adjustment, etc.) format. But for how long?

[1kyle]

Well, wait a minute. There are line-in hard-drive recorders from Iriver, Cowon, etc.

And there are flash recorders like the Edirol R09 and the M-Audio Microtrack.

For the moment MD is still the most inexpensive and most recording-friendly (track marks, level adjustment, etc.) format. But for how long?

Flash recorders have probs with limited capacity. What do you do when it's full and you are 5,000 KM away from home with no Internet / download capacity so you can't clear the device for more recording.

Hard Disc recorders have other problems -- if you are in a War Zone doing PJ work and the Hard disk goes belly up (quite likely in areas with a lot of Sand / Dust and vibrations on the back of a Tank exiting from the battlefield) then you are 100% totally hosed.

An individual MD is virtually indestructable.

As a PJ / pro photographer whose been in some very dubious situations I'd know what gear I'd prefer to take --and it wouldn't be hard disk based,

Cheers

-K

[UMWOOFWOOFF]

Hi 1kyle...

I agree with everything you said.

I use MD as a recorder. I have never used it as a music downloader, and rarely touch portables. I use MD for home recording, on a home deck; the same way you would use a tape recorder. I do all editing on the machine. I have never edited or done anything regarding minidisc on a computer. If I wanted to use a computer to record, I'd just burn a CD. The beauty of MD was its ability to make a perfect edited recording of professional quality without a computer. There is no product to replace it; nothing comes close. To produce a product as a RECORDER and not actually make a HOME or PRO RECORDER is absolutely incredibly ridiculously stupid, inane, and idiotic. Thousands have held off jumping into Hi-MD EXACTLY because of this point. If one doesn't realize this something is SERIOUSLY wrong.

Again, nothing is out there to replace MD. It is the PERFECT medium for home recording/editing/portability.

Therein lies the problem. "Medium".

The majority of the public do not want a physical hard copy of music anymore. They download it and listen to it until they get sick of it. Then, its discarded. How many people who recorded mix tapes casually in the 60's, 70's, and 80's still have those tapes and listen to them? Hardly any. I do.

The other surprising reality involves the professional audio market. They don't get behind MD because Sony never fully got behind it. When Sony finally made an uncompressed version, they refused to provide the professional market with an entire line of products. A fancy Walkman is NOT going to do it. A rackmount deck is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE UNQUESTIONABLY if ANYONE thinks this format will be the SLIGHTEST bit successful professionally.

Going over the positives of MD and the negatives of other formats is pointless; I understand and agree with all of your points.

But, like I said...the vast majority of people (and professional audio people) just don't care. And, mostly, it has been Sony's doing (or lack of doing).

[jrv2kgt-s]

My main gripe with the MD format was lock where you can not upload analog recordings. When NetMD format was released, it should have supported analog uploading from the get go. It’s a shame that it took Sony this long to realize this. None the less, I’m glad that they finally implement the ability to upload analog recordings in all formats.

glad they designed the RH1 after they learned that at least the MD-community isn't really interested in plastic MP3-player style but want a (good llooking) metal and fully functional recorder (well most of them...

I’m glad I bought the RH-1. The RH-1 is quite possibly the best sounding portable I’ve ever listened to. I even convinced two friends to pick up a RH-1. Initially I bought the RH-1 strictly for uploading NetMD recordings but now I use it for everything from music listening to recording classroom instruction.

I know one person at least here would surely disagree and for some (well actually just one) other(s) all Sony HiMD's are a disappointment as they do not offer super mega overdrive who-needs-full-frequency-music-if-you-only-listen-to bass

RobA: Every MD Recorder/Player sucks if it doesn’t have Mega Bass, a jog dial or isn’t a MZ-RH10.... I want Mega Bass and I want it now......

^^^^^^^^

Edited August 16, 2006 by jrv2kgt-s

[Richard]

* Moving to Hi-/MD Evaluations + Criticisms

[tekdroid]

The rest of horrors this had are really legendary and will probably be used by future marketing / design students as perfect text book examples in how NOT to design a product.

Small list of the horrors

Unit far too thick.

Unit too plasticy so case can scratch and crack fairly easily.

Battery latch really too weak. I easily broke one just opening it to change the battery.

No Line out so not so good for for playing through high end equipment.

Hack needed to get custom equalisation / higher output as there's no line out you really have to carry out the hack - for the average user this is really a No No.

Actual sound quality output not as good as N1 or RH1.

While I've never used (or actually seen in the flesh) the MZ-RH10, I'm a pretty good judge of what I like and don't like from a design standpoint. Scratchy and plasticy and fingerprinty (and silver paint-y) hit my list of dislikes. Big screen is a like. But there's not enough to really interest me in Generation 2.

Given how much generation 1 Hi-MD models are still going for in Australia, I don't think there's much to complain about. Had I payed 3 times more, I could bring out a long list. So for me, no major disappointments. Having only used Generation 1 and being a recording nut, I can't dream of buying another audio device for similar (or more) money - with less quality and features on the recording front. In many ways, generation 3 corrects the cheap-toy-from-china tackyness factor (among others) which is good.

[A440]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I love my MD. I still think it's the great portable recorder. For now.

But flash recorders like the Edirol R09, which accept removable media, will give the MD serious competition if they become cheaper, if flash memory card costs continue to drop, and if they incorporate some of the on-unit editing capabilities of MD. Think of putting in a 2GB or 4GB SD card (or larger in the future) and recording in PCM all the time, and a drag-and-drop interface for the results. Sony's hardware engineers came up with a marvel, no question. But Sony's software side, and probably its record-company interference, squandered a lot of potential.

[tekdroid]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I love my MD. I still think it's the great portable recorder. For now.

Oh I wasn't taking u wrong at all. Everything taken in context.

Yes, the next few years show good promise on the recording front. If only they'd hurry up.

Companies like Panasonic & Sony can totally leave the Edirol in the dust if they wanted to (they can easily create a better-built unit in a smaller size), but they don't seem too interested. From what I read, a real weakness of the R09 is the battery cover. So Sony is in good company (at least as far as the RH10 is concerned)

Not too sure on how noisy it is with external mics, either. I'm also not a fan of the design of the unit (size is a bit too big, too - but still quite livable).

The price of 2GB SD cards has plummeted, and no doubt will continue to. There's no doubt flash will be the preferred medium for many at some point in the future.

[WaywardTraveller]

I have to agree with people's opinions here re: the RH10. I was so happy when I got it - the organic-luminiscent screen was superb for nighttime listening/recording, and since I definitely prefer ATRAC over MP3 any day of the week, the poor handling of native MP3 playback didn't bother me.

What DID bother me was the shoddy workmanship. The Menu button started to loosen and it became VERY difficult to hold it down long enough to enter the Menu functions - the slightest shift would switch it back to the Play options, which infuriated me at times. THEN the unit display started to lose dots, then lines, which would literally burn out. THEN the battery latch broke much easier than one would expect the metal to do; THEN, finally, it was stolen in Mongolia, which wasn't the end of the world - the thief got a doorstop (he took the unit, the MD inside, and the earbuds, but not a recharger or cable of any kind). In a sense, I was kind of relieved to be rid of it.

peace

WaywardTraveller

[tekdroid]

What DID bother me was the shoddy workmanship. The Menu button started to loosen and it became VERY difficult to hold it down long enough to enter the Menu functions - the slightest shift would switch it back to the Play options, which infuriated me at times. THEN the unit display started to lose dots, then lines, which would literally burn out. THEN the battery latch broke much easier than one would expect the metal to do;

ouch. it sounds like a unit best left at home getting high-maintenance loving treatment

That OLED thing is worrying. I wonder how many other ppl experienced display burn-out.

I'm a bit suspicious of the longevity of new-fangled displays, myself. But, I really don't know. Could be just bad implementation in this model. Or a freak occurence. Who knows. Only the techs repairing the things, I suppose.

[Sparky191]

My MH700 is poorly made too. Flimsy and the controls menus etc make no sense. Battery cover a joke. If it was cheap you could overlook it. But HIMD are expensive units. At least where I am.

[A440]

My MH700 is poorly made too. Flimsy and the controls menus etc make no sense. Battery cover a joke. If it was cheap you could overlook it. But HIMD are expensive units. At least where I am.

I've got the MZ-NHF800, which is basically the same unit, and I have to disagree. The menus are barely changed from before Hi-MD--not brilliant, but no worse than before--and I carry it in my pocket all the time without the battery cover coming loose, which is more than I can say about either the NH900 or the R900, which both had to be taped shut. And flimsy? I've dropped it far more often than I should have, and it's still going strong. At the current price of $150 (minidisc access), it's a bargain.

To me, the RH900 was much worse thought out: same bad gumstick battery latch Sony used on many previous models, the stupidity of having Pause and Stop as two sides of the same rocker button, and smoked plastic in front of an unlit display. Give me the NHF800/NH700 any time.

What unit do you prefer, Sparky?

[WaywardTraveller]

ouch. it sounds like a unit best left at home getting high-maintenance loving treatment

That OLED thing is worrying. I wonder how many other ppl experienced display burn-out.

I'm a bit suspicious of the longevity of new-fangled displays, myself. But, I really don't know. Could be just bad implementation in this model. Or a freak occurence. Who knows. Only the techs repairing the things, I suppose.

I heard of at least one other person on these forums complaining about losing dots on the OLED display. It's a shame, cos it's such a beautiful unit otherwise.

I DID drop the unit on at least one occasion, so I'd accept responsibility for the broken battery latch but as for the other stuff, it wasn't what I expect from a 2nd-gen Hi-MD unit.

However, the NH700 I replaced it with has worked flawlessly, and seems pretty solid. Flimsy battery latch, yes, but that seems par for the course

peace

WaywardTraveller

[Sparky191]

Build wise I preferred the Sony G750 I had before, solid and weighty controls. Menu wise my original Sharp SR75. The controls buttons and menus were just logical. The sharp was also built very well.

[A440]

I had the R700, same as your G750 minus the radio, and yes, I thought that was a very sturdy unit. I liked its controls and display far better than the much-praised R900 except for the lack of Mic Sensitivity choice. But those days are gone, Sparky--I've barely touched any of my MDs since Hi-MD came along.

[Sparky191]

I had the R700, same as your G750 minus the radio, and yes, I thought that was a very sturdy unit. I liked its controls and display far better than the much-praised R900 except for the lack of Mic Sensitivity choice. But those days are gone, Sparky--I've barely touched any of my MDs since Hi-MD came along.

Its still disappointing.

[WaywardTraveller]

Looking back, my Sharp IM-MT880 was also built solid as a rock..had this great, weighty (but not too weighty) feel to it, and the texture of the metal case was sweeeeeet!

Complain all you might about the flashy USB nub-like growth on the corner - it still kicked serious ass.

peace

WaywardTraveller

[tekdroid]

Looking back, my Sharp IM-MT880 was also built solid as a rock..had this great, weighty (but not too weighty) feel to it, and the texture of the metal case was sweeeeeet!

Complain all you might about the flashy USB nub-like growth on the corner - it still kicked serious ass.

peace

WaywardTraveller

Nothin like the feel of oldskool silver metal units, IMO.

In contrast, I have a MZ-NH700 with silver paint coming off it, like a cheap (toxic) toy If these units were metal and/or plastic but never coated silver, it would have been a lot better for the ppl that purchased them, I feel. Nothing says "cheap toy" like paint coming off an expensive purchase (and it is an expensive purchase for most ppl).

Have to say I am a fan of the battery cover on the MZ-NH700; it's never given me trouble (but I never hold the bare unit in my hand when travelling without some sort of cover). I also like the fact that unit is chunkier; ejecting discs with the OPEN slider is easier than the thin have-to-open-it-delicately MZ-NH1, and the fact that on the desk the 'bump' of the battery angles the display towards you a bit. I quite like it, overall - and am still enthused about its honest-to-goodness AA-ness.

The menu on the MZ-NH700. I am generally pleased (once you get used to the menu). Would be nicer if it displayed more text, but I'm just (very) glad it's 3-line (the MZ-NH1 is a 1-line, and the fact that you have-to-get-remote-to-do-some-tasks is absolutely infurating. So my frame of reference about what constitutes a good menu might be a tad different here. Heh. Considering the wide range of recording features of Hi-MD units, and the low-cost LCDs (and OLEDs ) on some units, I think they have done well.

Still prefer the MZ-NH1's sound, but I don't think it's much of a selling point to most ppl.

Edited August 28, 2006 by tekdroid

[Neolander]

MZ-RH10 : Mine (before I "killed" it) had buttons bugging : by pressing "vol+", I had somtimes the same result as by pressing "menu". The plastic ATTRACTS streaks, also...

Flash recorders : I rode reviews of some of it.

I found :

1-Some that are extremely expensive (800->1300+ € !!!)

2-Some that are relatively cheap (300-400€), but are full of nasty things (if you understand french, read what microtrack's users globally say about it : http://fr.audiofanzine.com/produits/avis/i...rack_24_96.html )

3-Some that are very encumbrant (laptop size and weight)

Flash recorders still have a lot to improve before actually concurencing hi-md...

Edited September 3, 2006 by Neolander

[WaywardTraveller]

MZ-RH10 : Mine (before I "killed" it) had buttons bugging : by pressing "vol+", I had somtimes the same result as by pressing "menu". The plastic ATTRACTS streaks, also...

Ditto, ditto, and ditto to that! For me, it also got to the point where the only way I could definitely get the results I wanted from the menu button was to hold the unit perfectly flat or to place it on a table or something....if I didn't, I couldn't successfully hold the Menu button down long enough to get to the Options.

peace

WaywardTraveller

[Neolander]

And those bugs started after 8 months for me...

[moonlitphantasm]

I have to agree. I bought the RH10 because of the beautiful display. I've regretted it since.

In addition to all of the problems that have been addressed here, I am constantly having trouble transferring tracks from MD back into my library. Every song I try to transfer is rejected and I'm given an error message.

Guess I'll list it on ebay and put the money towards an RH1.