Duplicates Duplicates...

[Sierras]

Hi

I have a lot of MP3 on a shared folder on a computer on my home network. That computer syncs with an ipod.

I also have an old NetMD MZ-N707 that I'd like to try and use with my laptop and connect to the same music folder.

I wanted to try and speed up the conversion of the MP3 to minidisc so I imported some music files from the shared folder on the network to my local hard disc with Sonic Stage. This produced .OMA files in a folder called "Optimized Files". So far so good.

The problem is when I try to transfer those songs to my minidisc. For some reason, a duplicate song is created (ie song (1).OMA).

I notice that if I have my minidisc connected and transfer an .MP3 song directly from my MP3 music folder to the minidisc, that the duplicate does not occur.

And I could stick in another minidisc into the N707 and transfer that same song and again it doesn't get duplicated.

So it only seems to happen if I convert the MP3 files to my local hard disc first. (I think anyway...)

Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong??

[poe]

Sonic Stage has to have a copy of a file, on the hard drive of the computer it's installed on, to transfer it to your unit. I think it's a little bit of DRM bull still left over. POE.

[raintheory]

You are able to set up Sonicstage so that it deletes these OMA files after transferring them to MiniDisc (it's in the options somewhere, probably under transfer settings). The only downside to doing this is that if you want to download the same track to MiniDisc again it will take time because SonicStage needs to convert the file again prior to transferring.

EDIT: Just to help clarify, the OMA file is an ATRAC3 file (similar to Mp3, but MiniDisc uses ATRAC3) which is the only type of file NetMD units can read. When you transfer an Mp3 file to your N707, SonicStage converts the file to ATRAC3 (OMA file extension) in order to transfer to the MiniDisc. The only reason to have these files after transferring is to save time if you transfer the same track again (since Sonicstage doesn't have to convert the Mp3 file again).

Edited March 12, 2007 by raintheory

[Sierras]

You are able to set up Sonicstage so that it deletes these OMA files after transferring them to MiniDisc (it's in the options somewhere, probably under transfer settings). The only downside to doing this is that if you want to download the same track to MiniDisc again it will take time because SonicStage needs to convert the file again prior to transferring.

EDIT: Just to help clarify, the OMA file is an ATRAC3 file (similar to Mp3, but MiniDisc uses ATRAC3) which is the only type of file NetMD units can read. When you transfer an Mp3 file to your N707, SonicStage converts the file to ATRAC3 (OMA file extension) in order to transfer to the MiniDisc. The only reason to have these files after transferring is to save time if you transfer the same track again (since Sonicstage doesn't have to convert the Mp3 file again).

Just to clarify, I don't want to delete the OMA files on my local computer. I would like to convert all the MP3 files I have on my home network and store them as OMA on my local computer. The problem is that Sonic Stage makes another OMA file on top of the one that got converted. For example, if I had an MP3 song called MySong.MP3, I use Sonic Stage and it gets converted and stored as MySong.OMA. But when I go to transfer that song to my minidisc, it gets duplicated to MySong (1).OMA. If I do it again, I get another one called MySong (2).OMA. There must be something wrong with either my setup or the configuration I'm using. I can't believe this is normal...

[Richard]

1/ What version of Sonic Stage are you using?

2/ You didn't say how you are converting the tracks initially from MP3 to Atrac - using the convert format option? Again I guess this depends on the version of the software you are using.

3/ Are you sure you don't have the transfer settings configured to force conversion at every transfer instead of "As-Is". This may explain the extra conversion from MP3 to Atrac.

Below are some screenshots from SS 4.x - you may or may not have something similar depending on which version you are using.

If "Convert Autmatically And Transfer" is selected it will convert the tracks irrespective every time you transfer them.

[Avrin]

The reason may actually be simpler. If you convert your MP3s into OMAs with a bitrate not supported by Hi-MD (like 96, 128, or 160 kbps), then the file is reconverted before transfer, and the reconverted copy is saved in Optimized Files. The default bitrate for the reconversion is actually 64 kbps!

[Sierras]

Here are some answers to the questions:

1/ What version of Sonic Stage are you using?

SonicStage : 4.0.00.05080

2/ You didn't say how you are converting the tracks initially from MP3 to Atrac - using the convert format option? Again I guess this depends on the version of the software you are using.

Without the NetMD walkman connected, I select File - Import - Scan Folder then choose Settings and then the network folder containing the MP3 files.

For the transfer settings, I have the Standard transfer mode and Convert automatically and transfer which is set to LP2 Stereo.

If I have the device connected, I just select the songs and press the arrow going to the right.

The reason may actually be simpler. If you convert your MP3s into OMAs with a bitrate not supported by Hi-MD (like 96, 128, or 160 kbps), then the file is reconverted before transfer, and the reconverted copy is saved in Optimized Files. The default bitrate for the reconversion is actually 64 kbps!

This might actually be the reason for this duplication since I ripped all my CDs with EAC using LAME 3.97 at a VBR at around 192 kbps.

But once I convert it whatever format my NetMD needs, why then doesn't it use the OMA file that it had already converted and just transfer that. Why is it re-converting the MP3 file? Is this what the "Convert Autmatically And Transfer" is doing. But that doesn't sound right since I do want it to transfer automatically. And way of getting it do do one without the other? That is, auto transfer without auto convert? And if this the reason for the duplicatioin, it certainly isn't intuative...

Edited March 12, 2007 by Sierras

[Sierras]

I was wrong when I stated that Sonic Stage created a second duplicate. It doesn't create a MySong (2).OMA - only one duplicate MySong (1).OMA. It seems that once I transfer a song to the minidisc, it then creates an OMA file that it uses from then on. So after much testing, the real question is;

What is the format and bit rate that I must use to convert my MP3 music into my PCs hard drive so that Sonic Stage can use it the way it is when transfering it to my Net MD MZ-N707 minidisc.

I have to say that this whole process has just about brought me to the point of throwing this thing out the window and just join the rest of the world and get another iPod. I am considered an advanced computer user and this conversion / transfer process is totally unacceptable. No wonder the minidisc is losing the war. Why can't Sony just provide an updated firmware so that my minidisc can play MP3s, WMA, WAV and ATRAC3. (Just like it says right on the player). It's a beautiful system - too bad they Copyright infringed it to death.

[Avrin]

Never had a NetMD, but the bitrates to convert to, include only the time-tested and reliable ATRAC3 (without any 'plus'-es). And the bitrates that really can be transferred "as is" are 66 and 132 only.

No user-updatable firmwares for a [Hi-]MD unit, sorry. After such an update (even if it existed), the unit will be reset completely. And not that many service centers around the world are able to adjust it back to a working state. For any money you may offer.

Please, do not forget that flash, HDD, and other clever guys do not have to calibrate their mechanics, lasers, etc.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Avrin

[Sierras]

So after not being able to figure out how to fix this problem, I had given up and stopped using my minidisc. That was more than one year ago.

Recently, I tried to get my minidisc running again, but had the exact same problem with the new 4.3 SonicStage. In fact I didn't even remember writing this and found that I am in the exact same position I was in last year. Almost...

This time, I figured out what the problem is and so I wanted to share it.

I have my music on an external hard drive and imported all of it into Sonic Stage. Then when converting it, I found that Sonic Stage would create an OMG file (say MySong.omg) in the optimized folder. If I convert it without copy protection, then SonicStage will create another file called MySong (1).omg when I try to transfer the song to my minidisc. But if I had converted it with copy protection, then it does not create another file when transfering to my minidisc.

So that's about it and am happy using my minidisc once again...

Hope this helps someone else with this situation.

[Strungup]

Ahhhh good ol SCMS ................ NOT!

[theblueraja]

I find it puzzling and sad that this technical stumbling block actually caused you to stop using minidisc as a format completely. I mean, I'm very glad you came back, but it's like you couldn't figure out how to lock the glovebox of your new car, so you stop driving all together.

[KJ_Palmer]

You can delete these 'optimised' files automatically, or in the Advanced options Tab, shouldn't be a problem really. I regularly get them in transferring from 352k to LP2. Just a matter of knowing how to really.

[THIS SUCKS]

you should not get a duplicate file as long as when you initally convert the mp3' to .oma's you set the bit rate to lp2 132k this should transfer directly without reconverting next time. under transfer settings choose transfer "as is"

[MDane]

So after not being able to figure out how to fix this problem, I had given up and stopped using my minidisc. That was more than one year ago.

Recently, I tried to get my minidisc running again, but had the exact same problem with the new 4.3 SonicStage. In fact I didn't even remember writing this and found that I am in the exact same position I was in last year. Almost...

This time, I figured out what the problem is and so I wanted to share it.

I have my music on an external hard drive and imported all of it into Sonic Stage. Then when converting it, I found that Sonic Stage would create an OMG file (say MySong.omg) in the optimized folder. If I convert it without copy protection, then SonicStage will create another file called MySong (1).omg when I try to transfer the song to my minidisc. But if I had converted it with copy protection, then it does not create another file when transfering to my minidisc.

So that's about it and am happy using my minidisc once again...

Hope this helps someone else with this situation.

One thing to add...I agree with what was also mentioned by another person here...

Simply "give in" and stick with what works. I have "settled" with using 132 (LP2) for recording radio shows, Music Choice, etc. and 66 (LP4) for talk radio recordings. When doing this, I can use the files freely in all of the following units I have with quick and clean transfers in either direction: MZ-M200, NetMD, MDS-JE440 (my home deck), KMD-673 (my car deck), NW-E105/107 (Psyc - the ultimate flash portable...as of today anyway).

If the occasion arises that I need serious sound quality, then I use the M200 in PCM which can then be converted into whatever I desire later, or to a lesser extent I can record in 3+ (256kbps) for super long rec time in HI-MD mode...but then the same issues arise with compatiblity with Net MD type units. Frustrating as it is, the M200 has several firmware frustrations (aka limitations) that remind one of SS software...like only offering two compressed bitrate choices in HI-MD mode, and will only record Atrac3 in the LP2/4 rates...and only like a Net MD unit (yielding only appx 170 mb per standard disc).

Keep in mind however, that since I have a MZ-M200 I could (in theory) use all of the new neat "plus" bitrates on SS when transferring say a ripped CD to HI-MD...but once again this would often get into slow and messy conversions and reconversions when using any of my other equipment...as I am not one to make my ($3XX) M200 into a do-it-all IPOD...especially when $10-20 (on Ebay) will buy me a Psyc which is so much better as a true (non-video) portable, and the IPOD is no substitute for an MD in-dash head unit, hense no messy cable, IPOD to get stolen, sat on, drink spilled on, etc.

Don't get me wrong, it took me a while to get all of this staightened out...nearly 10 years with the format in all of its changes. Now if I can learn as much about computers as I have about using the equipment, I will be set...as I am also getting ready to install 4.3 on a new computer and must "somehow" get my old 3.4 files to work on it.