I'm going back to minidisc!

[melmel]

So, lately I've had some time to actually think and feel. I'm going back to minidisc!

I was reading some posts on Windows 7 64-bit here and trying to download some programs. I was gonna register for the downloads, but the system alerted me that I actually have an account. I was like... wow... omg?

I checked my profile history, and my last post was 6 years ago.

At the time, I was a seriously broke college student trying to survive on ramen and udon (no joke). I only had the blue R91 and could not afford anything better. I also checked my history at the T-station forum. I actually bought an orange N910 in 2004 for my birthday. But I was unhappy with it. There was "noise" when no music was playing. It was a low volume hiss. I sent it back.

Later, I got the 30GB iPod and then the iPhones.

I've tried to live a simple life in the past few years. I moved several times and learned to not buy crap and also sell things that I do not need.

But lately I've been longing for beautifully designed things and something to hold on to. I mean, the iPhone is beautiful and very powerful. But it's just boring? I've had every iPhone, and I've done all the hacks and jailbreaking before. I guess I've just had too much simplicity and zen in the last few years. Ha.

In the past two months, I've bought 6 minidisc players, a desktop system, and many many beautiful discs.

I guess now I have the means to buy what I was longing for back then. It does feel good.

• Sony E610 with the colorful stripes
  
• Sony E620 in blue
  
• Sony E710 in teal blue
  
• Sony E720 in pink
  
• Sharp DS5 in green
  
• Panasonic MJ18 with the ice-cream
  

• Sony LAM-Z05 system in silver
  

You can guess I love colorful stuff. I will post more later.

[slugbahr]

Welcome back to the wonderful world of minidisc!

Enjoy the ride

[Chickenvenus]

Yes, welcome back home.

[Arr-Nine-Hundred]

I've tried to live a simple life in the past few years. I moved several times and learned to not buy crap and also sell things that I do not need.

But lately I've been longing for beautifully designed things and something to hold on to. I mean, the iPhone is beautiful and very powerful. But it's just boring? I've had every iPhone, and I've done all the hacks and jailbreaking before. I guess I've just had too much simplicity and zen in the last few years. Ha.

Welcome back melmel!

I was the same - I sold a lot of my gear (read my "It all started..." post) to simplify things but have started moving back to MiniDisc gradually.

I wonder if these things are cyclic and I'll pine for minimalist stuff in a few years :-D

[PhilippeC]

MD fan forever !

[toxaco]

Having just entered the world of minidisc, now that it is obsolete

I would highly recommend trying Hi-Md!

I just acquired a MZ-RH910 and a MZ-NH600

recording in PCM WAV 16bit 44.1kHz is essential for me, (musician)

AND transfer to PC via USB

the RH910 will also play mp3 natively :yawn:

a word of warning Sony's mp3 to atrac conversion is dreadful and vice-vers,a convert mp3 to WAV first and then use sonicstage to convert WAV to atrac (and vice-versa)

[toxaco]

One more thing i have discovered is that Net MDs when using SonicStage to transfer music from PC to MD only have a max bitrate of 132kbps (or LP2) this is a real shame because apparently true MD-SP (292kbps) is even better sounding than Hi-Md Hi-SP (256kbps)!!!

[PhilippeC]

One more thing i have discovered is that Net MDs when using SonicStage to transfer music from PC to MD only have a max bitrate of 132kbps (or LP2) this is a real shame because apparently true MD-SP (292kbps) is even better sounding than Hi-Md Hi-SP (256kbps)!!!

but you are still able to record in real time in real SP

[melmel]

Honestly, in the past I was very much jealous and envious of everyone in the MD forums. People were posting pictorials and asking for advice on which MD systems to buy next.

It was a conscious decision to buy back some of the MD players that I believed to be beautifully-designed. Mostly to collect. Last month, I spent some time browsing the equipment pages on minidisc.org and clicking around in google. I decided to "acquire" about 6 or 7 models and some cute and colorful minidiscs (about 60).

All in all, this whole process has filled that gap and longing in my heart.

I was testing the MD players, and I wanted to "feel" the sounds from the different brands (Sony vs. Sharp). But what happened was that I became lost in the music. I was just sitting there and enjoying the shit! Before I knew it, I finished a 45-minute album. It did shock me.

I thought… this hasn't happened in a looooong time. Thinking back, I would get headaches from the iPods and iPhones. It doesn't matter if it's in the living room, on a train, or in a plane. I know I've been busy with work, but without realizing, I actually didn't want to listen to music on the iPhone!

Yes, they are 320k mp3's and 256k AAC's, ripped myself, but they hurt my head!

My conclusion is that the ATRAC format is better suited for music. I know it's also digital compression (like 1's and 0's), but there is much more warmth, energy, and emotion in the music.

[melmel]

Welcome back melmel!

I was the same - I sold a lot of my gear (read my "It all started..." post) to simplify things but have started moving back to MiniDisc gradually.

I wonder if these things are cyclic and I'll pine for minimalist stuff in a few years :-D

Well, I still love simplicity.

I'm a big Apple fan (not fanboy level), and I cannot imagine giving up my iPhone and iMac. Apple products help me get things done, and they are beautifully engineered and designed. Don't forget the software.

We have to understand that minidiscs are going the way of vinyl and cassette tapes. The one thing that I will always have with me is the iPhone. The MD devices are more like toys for me. Something to play with, something to clean, something to admire. Yes, I'll use them in public, but I won't be making MD's out of all my CD's and mp3's and have a collection. It just doesn't make sense. There are just too many hoops to jump through to get things done in MD land--inconvenient.

It's a hobby.

BTW, I'm not liking all the MD cords and adapters on my desk. I didn't know that the MD players could only be charged with the stands. So that's how they made them thinner! I'll probably get a battery charger and put the stands away.

[melmel]

Having just entered the world of minidisc, now that it is obsolete

I would highly recommend trying Hi-Md!

I just acquired a MZ-RH910 and a MZ-NH600

recording in PCM WAV 16bit 44.1kHz is essential for me, (musician)

AND transfer to PC via USB

the RH910 will also play mp3 natively :yawn:

a word of warning Sony's mp3 to atrac conversion is dreadful and vice-vers,a convert mp3 to WAV first and then use sonicstage to convert WAV to atrac (and vice-versa)

The big thing for me is design. Unfortunately, all the hi-md's look... bad? It's just my personal opinion. The orange RH10 is kinda cool, but otherwise... hmm... The designs are too "industrial" and the colors are too mature. But even with the RH10, the fonts on the OLED are ugly.

Besides the old R91 and my one-week stint with the N910, I also had a $40 NE410 for a while before getting an iPod. So I am familiar with LP2/LP4 and sonicstage.

I have decided to just stick with SP mode from my cd's (4x cd -> md) and use sonicstage LP2 for mp3's.

One problem that I haven't gotten around to solving... itunes-purchased AAC (m4a). I really don't want to go from m4a -> mp3 -> 132k atrac

Any suggestions?

[mmp64]

Honestly, in the past I was very much jealous and envious of everyone in the MD forums. People were posting pictorials and asking for advice on which MD systems to buy next.

It was a conscious decision to buy back some of the MD players that I believed to be beautifully-designed. Mostly to collect. Last month, I spent some time browsing the equipment pages on minidisc.org and clicking around in google. I decided to "acquire" about 6 or 7 models and some cute and colorful minidiscs (about 60).

All in all, this whole process has filled that gap and longing in my heart.

I was testing the MD players, and I wanted to "feel" the sounds from the different brands (Sony vs. Sharp). But what happened was that I became lost in the music. I was just sitting there and enjoying the shit! Before I knew it, I finished a 45-minute album. It did shock me.

I thought… this hasn't happened in a looooong time. Thinking back, I would get headaches from the iPods and iPhones. It doesn't matter if it's in the living room, on a train, or in a plane. I know I've been busy with work, but without realizing, I actually didn't want to listen to music on the iPhone!

Yes, they are 320k mp3's and 256k AAC's, ripped myself, but they hurt my head!

My conclusion is that the ATRAC format is better suited for music. I know it's also digital compression (like 1's and 0's), but there is much more warmth, energy, and emotion in the music.

I don't really think it's ATRAC - I think it is Sony's hardware. MP3s and AAC files sound better on Sony's MP3 players vs. other MP3 players.

[melmel]

I don't really think it's ATRAC - I think it is Sony's hardware. MP3s and AAC files sound better on Sony's MP3 players vs. other MP3 players.

I guess we can agree that MD hardware was engineered for sound quality.

But even in MD-land, I don't think Sony's hardware is the best.

I found that the Sony MD players only have an "average" sound signature--not good, not bad, acceptable. I like the Panasonic sound the best. The bass is tight, the highs are not harsh, and the soundstage is amazing. The Sharp units have a full sound with good bass (but a bit muddy).

Have you tried the current Sony MP3 players? Are they actually much better than the Apple stuff?

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=16178&N=4294946142

The E Series looks fun.

[melmel]

I don't really think it's ATRAC - I think it is Sony's hardware. MP3s and AAC files sound better on Sony's MP3 players vs. other MP3 players.

I don't have a hi-md device, so I can't test it out. But maybe others can try an SP-quality song versus the same song in 320k mp3, on a RH1 or RH10.

Something tells me that the SP version (ATRAC) will sound better. Or is it just blind faith?

[mmp64]

I don't have a hi-md device, so I can't test it out. But maybe others can try an SP-quality song versus the same song in 320k mp3, on a RH1 or RH10.

Something tells me that the SP version (ATRAC) will sound better. Or is it just blind faith?

I guess we can agree that MD hardware was engineered for sound quality.

But even in MD-land, I don't think Sony's hardware is the best.

I found that the Sony MD players only have an "average" sound signature--not good, not bad, acceptable. I like the Panasonic sound the best. The bass is tight, the highs are not harsh, and the soundstage is amazing. The Sharp units have a full sound with good bass (but a bit muddy).

Have you tried the current Sony MP3 players? Are they actually much better than the Apple stuff?

http://store.sony.co...78&N=4294946142

The E Series looks fun.

What I've done is compare HiSP on a Sony ATRAC CD player to 256K MP3, and then of course 256K MP3 on an ATRAC CD player vs. a Sony Walkman (NWZ-A816) vs. an iPod. I don't have one of the later HiMD units that plays MP3s, though my NWZ-NH1 plays MP3s, though on the first generation of Sony ATRAC devices that supported MP3, they "crippled" the playback and bypassed EQ and other sound processing so it is not a fair comparison.

To me - 256K MP3 (LAME, VBR) and HiSP were equivalent on the CD player, but HiSP on my MD units still sounded better. 256K MP3 on the NWZ-A816 sounded very close to HiSP on my MD units, and 192K WMA sounded equivalent. The same MP3 file was inferior on an iPod. Of course, I don't use EQ on iPod because it is terrible, and I did on the Sony because it is excellent. The particular model of Walkman I have (it is basically retired now because of age and converting to Mac a few years ago) had several different kinds of EQ, Bass Enhancement, etc. etc. The current "S" series has more audio processing vs. the "E" series. Usually I don't like too much sound processing, but Sony really has done a great job with these units.

So - I guess what I'm trying to say is - Sony just seems to make great sounding devices, regardless of the format.

One thing I found very interesting was comparing 64K WMA on the NWZ-A816 to HiLP on my MD units. To me - WMA was WAY better. I'd be curious to see if anyone else has ever compared this.

However - having said all of that - I would still say that to me - the best sounding portable audio is still real-time encoded SP.

[melmel]

However - having said all of that - I would still say that to me - the best sounding portable audio is still real-time encoded SP.

Thank you for the informative response!

My main belief is that SP mode beats both mp3 and aac, hands down. It is so obvious to me when listening.

In your tests, you should have disabled all eq and extras. It would have been fairer. But as alluded in the other thread, it is possible that even hi-md was optimized with statistics rather than sound. What I mean is that Sony engineers just worked and worked until hi-md achieved a certain spec. My belief is that for SP mode, Sony engineers actually used their ears (and gone through many many tests) for optimization.

Most of my music are on real CD's, so I just record at 4x speed to SP mode. For the few mp3's that I have, I use Sonicstage and LP2. Not painful at all.

I personally think that you should just ignore hi-lp and LP4. They are probably and mostly useless.

[sfbp]

I've said it before, LP4 is most definitely not useless. It all depends on the source being recorded, and how it was manipulated to get it onto disk. Hi-LP I haven't played with, admittedly.

[netmduser]

Im listening to lp4 (over 3 hours of chilled house from 320 mp3 to wav) on a line out md player. Sounds very good for the source as sfbp stated it depends on the source

[Joanne_Chan]

I came by this today as a frequent reader of the old board with a smile on my face.I've been through a number of personal solid state players some even supporting Lossless Audio and still I found they were lacking the expressiveness of something that was only stored away namely my Sharp MH270 personal MD recorder running on discs recorded at either monural or SP stereo mode. Lossly ATRAC4.5 might of been but it sound more musical than the lossless files on my Sensa clip digital player.

[Azureal]

My initial experience with LP4 came via Simple Burner application encoding on the PC then transferred directly to an MZ-N1. I recall that it had artifacts and I preferred the sound quality of LP2.

For me LP4 could be used for background listening at low volume levels, but not likely with my headphone amp and Senns or Grados.

I may give real-time LP4 encoding with my MXD-D400 a try and then playback on a HiMD portable with Type-S. Maybe even a comparison of that with encoding on the PC and transfer to said player.

[melmel]

I've said it before, LP4 is most definitely not useless. It all depends on the source being recorded, and how it was manipulated to get it onto disk. Hi-LP I haven't played with, admittedly.

Im listening to lp4 (over 3 hours of chilled house from 320 mp3 to wav) on a line out md player. Sounds very good for the source as sfbp stated it depends on the source

I understand that Sony believed LP4 was not "useless," and that is why they introduced it. They believed that it could compete with 128k mp3's back in the day. I also understand that you can put more music onto a disc because of LP4.

For me, personally and subjectively, there are better solutions for those "needs."

Minidisc stands for quality sound and portability for me. I just go SP and enjoy the beautiful music.

[melmel]

I came by this today as a frequent reader of the old board with a smile on my face.I've been through a number of personal solid state players some even supporting Lossless Audio and still I found they were lacking the expressiveness of something that was only stored away namely my Sharp MH270 personal MD recorder running on discs recorded at either monural or SP stereo mode. Lossly ATRAC4.5 might of been but it sound more musical than the lossless files on my Sensa clip digital player.

Yes, the emotions, the warmth, the heart, the anger, the pain, the "something" that is in the MD music!

Truthfully, in the beginning, I was just collecting for the sake of collecting. To fill that gap in my heart. Recover from it too. The "forgotten" MD quality blew me away when testing.

It's always a pleasure to see a post from the lovely Mio!

[melmel]

I may give real-time LP4 encoding with my MXD-D400 a try and then playback on a HiMD portable with Type-S. Maybe even a comparison of that with encoding on the PC and transfer to said player.

Running a lab at home and doing a science experiment to see if LP4 can be saved with better equipment and Type-S... is it really necessary?

It's 2012. Better to just record in SP mode or use Sonicstage and LP2. Mere mortals should just enjoy the music!

[sfbp]

I don't like being forced to one of:

a. multiple disks

b. HiMD

c. MP3

when I can record 5 1/3 hours at LP4 and listen to it in my car, on a deck at home, or with one of the many Type-S NetMD portables.

Where the source originally had 128kbps or less there's no point in going to SP - the bits are wasted.

If HiMD decks were cheap and available that might be different. But they're not.

[Joanne_Chan]

My initial experience with LP4 came via Simple Burner application encoding on the PC then transferred directly to an MZ-N1. I recall that it had artifacts and I preferred the sound quality of LP2.

For me LP4 could be used for background listening at low volume levels, but not likely with my headphone amp and Senns or Grados.

I may give real-time LP4 encoding with my MXD-D400 a try and then playback on a HiMD portable with Type-S. Maybe even a comparison of that with encoding on the PC and transfer to said player.

I think LP4 was really for background music and audiobooks as the notes I had with those home and portable units that featured it referred to random noise that could occure while using it. LP2 wasn't bad but could ( in personal experience did) trip up sounding 'phasy' on music with lots of high frequency transients such as cymbols playing. This said the type -S version of LP2 on my HiMDNH700 was noticable better in that regard.

[Azureal]

I think LP4 was really for background music and audiobooks as the notes I had with those home and portable units that featured it referred to random noise that could occure while using it. LP2 wasn't bad but could ( in personal experience did) trip up sounding 'phasy' on music with lots of high frequency transients such as cymbols playing. This said the type -S version of LP2 on my HiMDNH700 was noticable better in that regard.

I completely agree Joanne_Chan, I have found the same sound tendencies, LP2 is really pretty decent sounding with Type-S playback and for low volume background or automobile listening LP4 will certainly suffice. The key as sfbp mentions is the amazing duration one can achieve on an 80 minute blank and for some source materials anything greater simply makes no sense.

melmel, to your point, my favorite is indeed full on real-time SP 292KBps, the sound is amazing, I love it! I think my desire to experiment at home is just for fun :-). My wife has her crafts, I have my MD collections ...

[melmel]

I don't like being forced to one of:

a. multiple disks

b. HiMD

c. MP3

when I can record 5 1/3 hours at LP4 and listen to it in my car, on a deck at home, or with one of the many Type-S NetMD portables.

Where the source originally had 128kbps or less there's no point in going to SP - the bits are wasted.

If HiMD decks were cheap and available that might be different. But they're not.

For me, personally and subjectively:

a. multiple discs -- This is actually a PLUS! I can bring several colorful and cool discs to show people! I usually have 4 with me.

b. hi-md -- Well, SP quality beats everything except PCM. I'm also "rejecting" hi-md because of the designs. Non-factor.

c. mp3 -- Not a problem for me. My music is mostly on CD's.

Even though I was a broke college kid, I did buy CD's. I have over 400 CD's, and that is my source of music. THE BEST SOURCE!

SP! SP!

When I need convenience and average quality, I can access my complete library with a click in iTunes or iPhone.

I completely agree Joanne_Chan, I have found the same sound tendencies, LP2 is really pretty decent sounding with Type-S playback and for low volume background or automobile listening LP4 will certainly suffice. The key as sfbp mentions is the amazing duration one can achieve on an 80 minute blank and for some source materials anything greater simply makes no sense.

melmel, to your point, my favorite is indeed full on real-time SP 292KBps, the sound is amazing, I love it! I think my desire to experiment at home is just for fun :-). My wife has her crafts, I have my MD collections ...

Agreed!

Just like how obvious it is for SP to be better than mp3's and aac's, LP4 is also obviously bad (inaccurate with artifacts) to my ears. And none of my headphones/earphones are over $100.

[sfbp]

My music is mostly on CD's.

Even though I was a broke college kid, I did buy CD's. I have over 400 CD's, and that is my source of music. THE BEST SOURCE!

For someone starting entirely from CD's it's completely true that LP4 can be quite annoying. LP2, much less often.

Starting from (say) a broadcast stream in the 64-192kbps range, your statements about LP4 having artifacts are much less true - maybe even palpably false. Typically these streams have already thrown away the bits (white noise) that in SP and CD the systems are taking much trouble to reproduce.

I would agree with anyone who said "it's very tricky to get LP4 recordings that sound good". Only takes the slightest variation in input parameters to mess up the result. For instance RAISING the source bit rate being recorded may force me to use LP2 instead.

Having said that, I have hundreds of hours of all kinds of classical music recorded this way. Stuff which has always been a severe test of analogue systems, and certainly of MP3. Long held notes on solo clarinet or solo french horn, loud percussive piano music such as a concerto, very loud organ with extremes of pitch (and therefore overtones). All of these without problems, provided the source did not contain significant amounts of analogue white noise - which presupposes a digital source, of course. As soon as you do recording of analogue signals, now you need at least LP2 - the MDLP decks (perhaps not portables, I have not experimented) seem to have the right filters to make that work nicely.

Funny artifact recording opera. Turns out the announcer's signal is usually mono. Attempting to compress-encode a mono signal with joint stereo (as most MP3 and also in LP4) doesn't work well at all. You get sibilants on the voice - now there's an annoying artifact. Music works fine, voice doesn't - who woulda thunk it? LP2 is fine, natch.

I wonder if popular music has a bunch of "mono" instruments "tracked in" to the mix? That might just lead to the same effect as noted above.

Stephen

[toxaco]

I just picked up a NH600 Hi-Md unit for £30 UK or roughly $50 i hardly call that expensive, the expensive bit is getting the disks!

[Azureal]

That's a great price, don't forget you can format 80 minute MDs for use in HiMD devices and store just about any ATRAC or ATRAC3plus endoded file, you can even mix them up! I have an NH600 and it is one of my main daily units. Very durable.

[melmel]

I just picked up a NH600 Hi-Md unit for £30 UK or roughly $50 i hardly call that expensive, the expensive bit is getting the disks!

That's a great price. What is the condition?

The big thing with the NH600 is that it uses AA batteries.

[Chickenvenus]

Any unit that takes the AA battery is an advantage. I'm pretty much a SP and LP2 man, pretty much just use the standard Discs, I have a number of HiMD discs, but I seem to not want piles of albums on one disc. I prefer the HiMD units though.

[melmel]

Units like the NE410/N505/N707 and the NH600 fit a certain demographic well. Some of my family and friends had those units.

I never understood the point of the battery add-on thing. It felt ugly and flimsy.

I had the R91 and the battery life sucked, but I never used the battery add-on. Thankfully, they managed to improve the technology and my newer player units have long battery life with the nimh.

[sfbp]

I never understood the point of the battery add-on thing. It felt ugly and flimsy.

The point was not for playback, but recording! If you go to a venue with no power where you want to record 80 or 160 minutes of music, then using a (non-rechargeable) AA battery is the way to go. That means that really the NH700/800/900 was the only way to go if using a HiMD to record things with a microphone. The NH1 and RH1 are OK but some people have complained that battery life was a mixed feast with the LIP-4WM.

The NH600 never had a microphone socket; the 700 had everything including AA, but a wee bit bulky for some people's taste. However the NH700 is probably the best compromise of the lot. I like the NH900 because it's a little more compact but has the flexibility of being able to use the AA sidecar when needed.

(Sorry, I didn't mention 2nd gen - RH10/910 which also have sidecar AA as well as mic socket).

[melmel]

The NH600 never had a microphone socket; the 700 had everything including AA, but a wee bit bulky for some people's taste. However the NH700 is probably the best compromise of the lot. I like the NH900 because it's a little more compact but has the flexibility of being able to use the AA sidecar when needed.

I remember I considered the NH900 when himd was released. Yes, the NH700 has all the ports, but look at that thing... Let's just say it is not a piece of art.

I also don't understand the need of the AA for recording. My R91 could record for more than 2 hours on the nimh. I checked the browser page, and it says the popular N910 can record 11 hours on the nimh. Even if real-usage is half of that (5), it is plenty enough. Plus, people bring spare nimh's if needed.

[Chickenvenus]

I disagree. I think the NH700 looks excellent. Chunky, fairly tuff, a handful, nice metallic effect plate on the front, nice toggle feel. Good device. Ive taken Stephen's advice and put my RH1 away for special uses.

[toxaco]

The NH600 i picked up is in great condition considering the price, a bit scuffed at the corners, but not a single scratch on the LCD and actually i'm looking at it now it hardly has a scratch on the rest of the body either! The rubber cover for the USB port is still there and in good condition too ;-)

I picked up a NH900 too for £55 which is in mechanically good condition, no loose hinges or anything, but the LCD screen is a bit pockmarked which is a bit annoying when you get reflections. I've been reading a thread about removing scratches with bicarbonate of soda toothpaste, or i might try Brasso metal polish or something similar.

I don't mind the gumstick batteries as i already have 5 old ones, and just bought 2 new ones for £10

I've got to say it's a bit of a beast with line-out, adjustable microphone level, speed control etc.

I also should mention i "hacked" both units to remove the poxy "french" volume limiter as i like to use big headphones 8-D

I am a new convert to minidisc and i don't know if it's just the fun of using removable media, DISCs, or the fact that music sounds like music again!!! I love them, that and the fact you can record on them, without having to fork out ££££s for an iphone.

[melmel]

I am a new convert to minidisc and i don't know if it's just the fun of using removable media, DISCs, or the fact that music sounds like music again!!! I love them, that and the fact you can record on them, without having to fork out ££££s for an iphone.

That's great to hear! The NH900 is one cool unit.

But remember, minidisc equipment was actually very expensive... especially if you consider inflation. The NH900 would cost about $360 in 2012. And this price is for a product that has its quirks and flaws, and requires technical knowledge to really understand.

[toxaco]

That's great to hear! The NH900 is one cool unit.

But remember, minidisc equipment was actually very expensive... especially if you consider inflation. The NH900 would cost about $360 in 2012. And this price is for a product that has its quirks and flaws, and requires technical knowledge to really understand.

I know what you mean! I was considering getting a RH1, but as they got for £200 second hand and £££s new still, i didn't think the advantages were that great! Ok you can use it with a Mac OS X, but only to transfer PCM not atrac, i believe?, and even though it has USB 2.0 the transfers are not THAT much quicker? Yes / No, i've never used one! Regular HI-Md transfers aren't even USB 1.0 full speed.

Having said all that, i like to build computers for fun, Hackintoshes all day long ;-) and i like to study electronics when i get to college, and i have had no major issues with Sonicstage, i got the 4.3 Ultimate release from here, and find it absolutely fine!

Having had to deal with Windows Media Player and iTunes over the last ten years Sonicstage seems a breeze, you can transfer songs to your PC (or Mac running XP with bootcamp) transfer songs from PC to Hi-Md unit in any quality you want PCM, Hi-SP, or Hi-LP, and make playlists and even "dynamic" playlists, i like the play random music for 30mins or more like 2hrs for me

It seems very much like a cross between iTunes and WMP, with all the bad bits removed! imho

Ok when transferring PCM it's only about x2 compared to realtime recording, but what's the hurry ? go make a cup of tea or read a book or walk the dog etc,

If you value your sound quality as much as i do, it's worth the wait!

I even found a handy way of transferring 2hr mp3 DJ mixes to minidisc, with track breaks every 15mins and no glitches between tracks. You have to use a combination of Nero 6, Nero Image Drive, and Simple Burner.

(read this post )

As you can fit 2hr20min on a standard minidisc when formatted to Hi-Md, i find Hi-Md perfect, cos i like to listen to a good mix over and over, all i need is my NH600 a couple of discs and i'm set!

I guess Sony over estimated the public's ability to deal with digital recording! It is a lot more complicated than pressing play on a tape machine :-( which is where Apple stepped in with the ipod and just removed the ability to record, the public are all to happy to throw their money away buying low quality mp3s!!! What a load of rubbish! lol

Excuse me for the rant, i've been up all night! HALLELUJAH!

[sfbp]

I was considering getting a RH1, but as they got for £200 second hand and £££s new still, i didn't think the advantages were that great!

The advantage of the RH1 is to do something you really can not do easily any other way (sure, x1 with digital out from an MDLP deck), namely upload from non-HiMD disks. If you gotta have one, you can't live without it. Definitely not for use as a player, although it's very nice.