From my MZ-N1 to PC?

[oldmandon]

Hi Guys n Gals,

I’m new to the site and new to Minidiscs. I’m loving the sound quality that these wonderful little machines put out, I currently own 2 MZ-N1s and about 350 minidiscs with various types of music.

What I want to do is to transfer ALL of the music from my minidiscs and my CDs to my laptop, then to make up my own discs with all the tracks I like.

My question is can I transfer files using my MZ-N1 or do I have to buy a MDS- player of some description? When I record back to minidisc I’m planning on using the LP method to get more on each disc. I’ve been looking at the MDS-940/960/980, what others should I be looking at if I need to be buying 1?

Any and ALL help gratefully received and accepted, oh and sorry f this has been asked before, but I couldn’t find it if it had.

Don

[trott3r]

I have only transfered music from MD to a PC using a RH1 so cant comment on ur recorders.

"’ve been looking at the MDS-940/960/980, what others should I be looking at if I need to be buying 1?"

I have a 940 and 980.

The 980 is better for editing than the 940 but i dont know if you need to do any editing on the MD machine itself.

If not editing, get which is the cheapest of the 2 decks.

I am not familiar with the 960.

The 9xx series is the mid range quality of MD decks so if you find them too expensive you could get a lower series 780?

[punkrockaddict]

First of all..

- you need an MZ-RH1 to transfer files from Md to Pc. No other Recorder hast that feature.

- there is no MDS-JB960. there were only the MOdels with 920/930/940/980. The best one is the JB930 as it has Current Pulse and Type-R

If you really want to transfer 350 SP minidiscs to your Laptop then you need to be patient when doing this with your MZ-N1. You can only play them back ( remember to set the N1 to line out) and record them through your Laptops line in. 350 x 74 minutes = 25.900 minutes = 431,66 hours. That is massive

Cds can be transferred faster.. choose a programm u like. I suggest you would use SonicStage along with a RH1 to import SP discs

.

but RH1´s are expensive...

[oldmandon]

Hi thanks for the response.

I’m guessing from this then that not even something like the JB930 will transfer to PC?

Best start looking for a RH1 then

But are you saying that I can play the discs on my N1 through line out into my Laptop? What would be the line in? the headphone port? or do I need some sort of usb adapter thing?!!!!

Oh I have downloaded the SonicStage ultimate version from here and have already tried using it copying a CD to MD, seemed easy enough, now just need to get 350 MDs to the lappy!!!!!!

[Another MD fanatic]

The time it would take to put 350 MDs onto your laptop in real time is mind-boggling! If you really want to give it a go here's a brief summary.

You can use the mic/line input on your laptop but you'll probably get better results if you use a USB "thingy". First off, using a programme such as Audacity you record the contents of the MD as one long track. Then you've got to divide it up into each separate song. And you may wish to even out the volume levels and do one or two other bits of tweaking. Then you need to label each track. Finally convert them to SonicStage, MP3, or whatever.

As a general guide you can expect it to take roughly double the length of time, so to do one 74 min MD will take over 2 hours. I know because I've done it, but I certainly don't make a habit of it. I reckon if you were lucky you should get through those 350 MDs in just over 800 hours!

Wasn't my intention to put you off completely, just wanted to put the whole thing into perspective for you. As you can see it's ok for one or two discs but not really practical for such a vast number. Mind you, the cost of an RH1 isn't practical either (not for me at any rate).

One final point. When the music was originally put on the MDs there were some losses (although most of us can't hear them). To now record the music to your laptop, fiddle about with it, then convert it again (and to LP at that), would the sound quality suffer to the point where it became noticeable? Please note I do not want to start a debate on that point ( I know some people have strong views on this subject).

Hope this is of some help to you.

[syn010110]

Finding an RH1 for sale will usually result in the loss of anywhere between $300 and $900 from your wallet. Blame the eBay speculators who bought them up when Sony announced the discontinuation of the format, sat on them for years and decided to sell them on eBay for twice their original value. >_>;

[punkrockaddict]

I see the being sold for about 250-300€ at the moment.

I don´t think there were those people who bought them off and are going to sell them for that cause.

This is more like people are passing their devices away because of getting into a new format of audio i think.

The prices are reasonable though.

If that wasn´t such a big amount i would probably import some discs for you.But not that many

In case you are going to buy a RH1 i wish you good luck and a grab a good one too.

ps: you were right the JB930 can´t import those either rather than playing them in real time.

[THIS SUCKS]

use hi-md renderer, it will keep your track marks and track titles. its free here. it should be in the download section

[PhilippeC]

there were only the MOdels with 920/930/940/980. The best one is the JB930 as it has Current Pulse and Type-R

?

http://minidisc.org/part_Decks_Sony.html

Ctrl + current pulse = 10 decks

Ctrl + type R = 11 decks

so it is more than 1 for current pulse and type-R

[punkrockaddict]

I was talking about the 900 QS Series only as he asked about these ;-)

Therefore the MDS-JB930 is the best One.

[PhilippeC]

The JB980 is also current pulse + type R (as a type S), therefore it is the best one

[punkrockaddict]

No it is not.

Minidisc.org is wrong this time. The only QS Decks that had Current Pulse were the JB920 and the JB930.

See http://www.sony.de/support/de/product/MDS-JB980/specifications

The 980 and the 940 use Hybrid Pulse.

See http://www.minidisct.com/cgi-bin/rms/equipment/do/display.cgi?product-sku=minidisc_deck_sony_mdsjb940

Therefor , as i said before, the JB930 is the best Qs Deck available.

You may imagine i do own a JB930 for exactly that reason.OK i do own a JB980 too but that is for NetMd reasons.

I listen and record SP only with the JB930

[sfbp]

Please forgive my butting in to this discussion, but I can't let this one go....

Who (and why?) chooses their MD recorder on the basis of the DAC? Seems to me that the advances in digital electronics that took place since these recorders came out are reflected in some of the great audio receivers (Sony, Onkyo, and many others) that give excellent performance at converting D-to-A with a digital input from whatever device. Especially since many of them upsample to 176 or 192 kHz which nicely gets rid of any previously observable defects in many of the earlier 44.1 kHz-based compression schemes (including MP3 and ATRAC for example).

If I was coming to the field looking for my first deck (and there is no doubt that the possession of an MD deck is still a very important thing, especially since it is one of the only ways of getting really good stored digital recording from both analog and digital inputs), I would be choosing it on the basis of which deck is:

a. most functional (can I edit it, especially with reference to keyboards, titleing etc)

b. recovers and decodes the sound data off the MD the best.

On those criteria, I think the 980 wins the competition. I have one. It's good.

[PhilippeC]

http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/MDS-JB980/specifications : hybrid pulse, OK

As Stephen just said, the presence of an optical output allow any MD deck to be connected with a modern DAC.

For example the good - correct the jitter very well - and not to expensive (less than 100$) Creative USB HD card (24nit-192kHz) which have USB + optical in + analog out.

Those configurations are possible (with the MD deck):

PC 24bit-48kHz max -----> MD for listening (DAC) or recording

PC -----> Creative card 24bit-48kHz max -------> MD for recording

MD (analog, optical) -------> Creative card (analog, optical) -------> amplifier for listening

MD (analog, optical) -------> amplifier for listening

MD (analog, optical) -------> Creative card (analog, optical) -------> PC for listening and recording

MD (analog, optical, Net-MD) -------> PC for listening and recording

Personnaly, the low cost for the best audiophile quality to select a deck choice is my first criteria. I got my JB980 for less than 80 euros, shipping include. But I am happy it has everything, specially the Net-Md and beeing MDLP type-S.

[punkrockaddict]

If one wants to get his first Deck of the QS Series and wants to get the best sounding one -> it is indeed the JB930.

Because of what? The 930 offers natively the best sound with SP when simply connected to an analog amplifier.

So what do you think how much Oversampling is done in the JB930´s DAC ? I assume its up to the Level of an JA555.That would be 128x.. Iam not sure its got the same IC but it would be possible.

I know there are for sure better DAC´s in some devices but not everyone has his PC next to his Stereo or uses a Dolby Receiver.

Regarding that it´s simple that the 930 pwns the other 900 Qs Decks

Considering point a Stephen said both Decks are equa ( with a slight remote advantage for the 930) l but point b the 930 plays better.

Last but not least is the price one has to pay. Afaik the 980 Decks are higher priced.

that is my assumption of criteria which one is better

:-)

correct me if iam wrong.

[PhilippeC]

Price is not really an issue. As you know most of us are hunters of good opportunities. Why pay 180 or 250$, common prices when people ask for an estimation - if with some luck there will be somebody who has the same deck at half or even at quarter price (I got the JB980 for 65 euros + shipping). That is my philosophy and that is why everyday I check eBay worldwide and in France leboncoin.fr.

[Azureal]

Hey guys, as an Electronic and Computer Engineer, this topic fascinates me so did a little digging in the browser and on the web. Here are some notes and details for several units being discussed. Let's also remember that the quality of sound is and always will be subjective and unique to every listener! :-)

JB930
ATRAC Type-R
CXD2656R

ADC
AK4524-TP
The 4524 ADC is a 56 pin dual inline chip

DAC
CXD8735N-TP


Current Pulse drivers
2 x CXA8042AS (one per channel)

Same current pulse parts as the JA333ES
The 8042 parts are 28 pin through hole inline parts and also used with a different DAC in the JA333ES.
Finding any good details on this part seems nearly impossible but it looks to be a driver part which converts the differential analog voltage output of the DAC into a current pulse signal. This combination of a DAC chip and the Current Pulse driver chips is used together in many high end pieces of Sony gear which explains the statement that they have a "Current Pulse D/A", the true DAC is the 2656 part. The outputs of the 8042 chips are then run through an Op-Amp matrix and finally output from the units.



JB940
ATRAC Type-R
CXD2662R

ADC
AK4524-TP

DAC
CXD9556AQ
Same DAC as JA333ES
The 9556 DAC is an 80 pin quad flat pack.


The browser states that the JA333ES (and presumably the JB940 since it has the same DAC) are Current Pulse drive.

In fact, examining the schematics for all three machines, the 940 contains no current pulse drivers such as the CXA8042AS chips which are in the 930 and the 333.

Clearly the 9556 DAC has a differential voltage output as used on the 940. The differential voltage DAC output runs directly into the Op-Amp array and is output from the unit without any conversion to current pulse for the 940.

According to a previous on a similar topic has some additional detail.


JA333ES
ATRAC Type-R
CXD2656R

ADC
AK5383

DAC
CXD9556AQ

Current Pulse drivers
2 x CXA8042AS (one per channel)

In all cases, the Op-Amp output stage of the circuits shape the noise floor, dynamic range and frequency response of the output. I suspect the JA333ES is superior in every way to the JB units because all circuits are isolated on seperate circuit boards with different power supplies.

My original intention for doing this research was to ask the question "What about the JB940?".

I discovered however that punkrockaddict's statement that the pulse current output stage of the 930 produces a superior analog signal is likely very true and based on the fact that 930's DAC -> Output section is nearly the same as the JA333ES.

I understand Stephen's point regarding the fact that each of these units as well as probably all have a direct digital signal from the ATRAC decoder to the Optical and Coaxial digital outputs. I know for a fact that the DAC and other circuits in my Marantz SR18 receiver which, admitedly is now a dozen years old, converts the digital stream from all three of my MD decks with amazing grace. I would like to think it performs the task better than a few Sony chips worth 50USD retail but who knows.

A side note, the JB980 has no service manual in the browser so I could not check. The browser does state that it has the same ATRAC DSP chip as the D400 and is of the same era, I wonder if the ADC/DAC in the 980 is of lower cost/quality as is the one documented in the D400 service manual, it is in the schematic as a combined device for both input and output. I still love my 940 and my D400!

[sfbp]

A side note, the JB980 has no service manual in the browser so I could not check. The browser does state that it has the same ATRAC DSP chip as the D400 and is of the same era, I wonder if the ADC/DAC in the 980 is of lower cost/quality as is the one documented in the D400 service manual, it is in the schematic as a combined device for both input and output. I still love my 940 and my D400!

Here's the manual:

Looks to me as if the same AD/DA chip is used as in the 930 and 940, namely the AK4524. FWIW, the D400 has the AK4584VQ, whatever that means.

[Azureal]

Thanks Stephen,

Very interesting, it seems that the AK4524-TP is a combined ADC/DAC chip although in the JB930 and JB940 Sony chose to only use the ADC portion of the chip and combine it with an additional discrete DAC part.

In the JB980 however, it is the single part is used with both ADC and DAC in service. I suspect to reduce cost. There are no Current Pulse drivers in the output section. The JB980 has the addition of the USB controller and firmware which added to the cost of production.

[PhilippeC]