Change Language of Japanese MZ-RH1 Unit

[PhilippeC]

You didn't see a pulse but you see the light ? Maybe this a question of frequency. MD accept 24bit-48kHz max.

What are the sources before the MD ?

[mimarsinan]

No pulsation, just a steady red light.

The source is a Pioneer DJM 900 SRT mixer, its Digital Main Out.

[PhilippeC]

59 minutes ago, mimarsinan said:

No pulsation, just a steady red light.

The source is a Pioneer DJM 900 SRT mixer, its Digital Main Out.

Why do you need a mixer between your music and the MD unit ? Surely your CD player / PC ou Mac / DVd have an S/PDIF optical out ?

[mimarsinan]

I use the mixer and 3x Pioneer CDJ 900 NXS2's to make my sets (or perform live) and then the MiniDisc to record the sets (the track marking is very convenient).

[PhilippeC]

Your Md is connected to the Master out I suppose...

Maybe you set the mixer to 24bit-96kHz instead of 24bit-48kHz ?

Time for me to go to bed.

The right answer is close : setting of the DJ unit or the mixer, coaxial-toslink adaptator, somewhere here.

 

[mimarsinan]

Perhaps the mixer output indeed, I will check that. If a solid red light is coming, that hopefully means the box isn't dead, right?

Here's my live recording (albeit, analog):

https://soundcloud.com/djfuzuli/bastion-dj-fuzuli

[sfbp]

Any fluctuations visible by eye are nothing to do with the signal. If there's a good connection, you will see a steady light. Period.

Remember that the only formats that MD can process are:

32Khz; 44.1Khz (native); 48Khz. The outliers are converted to 44.1 by some resampling that Sony built in to almost every recording device.

The other problem is that many devices put out a signal with one or both of the copy bits (SCMS) set. In this case you need a stripper. The easiest way to get this functionality is with a PC that has optical in AND optical out, since most sound cards allow you to control the SCMS setttings for yourself.

Stephen

[mimarsinan]

I really doubt the DJM 900 NXS2 sets any copy bits.

All indicators point to a Khz mismatch in the mixer output thus far. Nice to know such nuances are not lost on the copper digital out cable!

I'll double check that and let you know what I find. Thanks for the feedback!

[mimarsinan]

So I haven't been able to check this out yet - its an unpleasantly busy time of the year, the past few weeks have been especially delightful.

But I have the following general feedback to share:

1) When I completely wipe a Hi-MD disc and then transfer PCM tracks from my PC, it seems a random error is introduced on virtually every transfer. Each time I listen to the transferred recording, it skips "here or there", once to twice per disc, at the same position, per transfer. I can then wipe the disc again and transfer again. This does *not* guarantee that the new version will be error-free. There seems to be a 50% chance there won't be any new issues. If there are new issues, they'll be at completely new positions.

2) I made a live recording using a mike (I wasn't the DJ that night). Now I cannot transfer it at all to my PC. In my 90 minute recording, the transfer progress jumps to 30% immediately, and then fails. However, I *can* listen to the recording on the player itself. It's PCM.

I honestly thought some of what sfbp was reporting had to be hogwash, with respect to the errors the unit could raise, especially with PCM recording. Is it really true, is it so unreliable?

Another pet project...I'm still trying to figure out how to record radio. If I get one of the MD models with the radio remote, then plug that remote into my current model, and then take the earbud "line out" found on the remote, split it using a line splitter, feed one of the split lines back into the MD through line-in, and the other to the headphones as per usual, can I then finally record radio on the MD?

And I have been able to finally figure out how to reduce my DJM 900 SRT (its not NXS2, sorry) digital output to 48Khz, apparently the default was 96. So I should be able to wrap that test up soon as well.

Looking forward to your feedback, folks!

[sfbp]

12 hours ago, mimarsinan said:

1) When I completely wipe a Hi-MD disc and then transfer PCM tracks from my PC, it seems a random error is introduced on virtually every transfer. Each time I listen to the transferred recording, it skips "here or there", once to twice per disc, at the same position, per transfer. I can then wipe the disc again and transfer again. This does *not* guarantee that the new version will be error-free. There seems to be a 50% chance there won't be any new issues. If there are new issues, they'll be at completely new positions.

 

Sadly, the mechanism Sony came up with for making a completely blank disk includes the necessity to preserve the "rights" information for deleted tracks back to the PC. You can monitor this by seeing exactly how much free space there is on the disk according to SS. This means in turn that once there's a fault on a disk, you're stuck with it. This isn't a problem with a hybrid disk (legacy formatted to Hi-MD) since a real erase in a real deck that predates HiMD will get rid of everything. It's also not a problem if you have an Onkyo deck. But the 1GB disks cause silly problems especially when the unit is run off battery power at record or edit time. It's minimised in the RH1 but all the earlier HiMD units come with a sticker with that warning about using lots of power. You should be able to do "format" ("initialize") but unfortunately, they decided to do the rights recovery even then.

When you consider that "true PCM" isn't that desirable (for MD it was really just another marketing gimmick) in 16-bits-only, you don't try to send PCM to the MD. You'll get a far better playback (from already recorded music) with 256 or 352 kbps. PCM is nice for recording live, provided you don't need to amplify the sound post facto. I just worked on an under recorded concert (automatic recording by preset equipment that I don't own). What saved me is that the recording was in 24 bits. This meant that digitally amplifying the signal (in Sound Forge) by 16 or 32 didn't make the signal sound patchy. If I only had 16 bits to start with, this technique likely wouldn't have worked.

[mimarsinan]

25 minutes ago, sfbp said:

Sadly, the mechanism Sony came up with for making a completely blank disk includes the necessity to preserve the "rights" information for deleted tracks back to the PC. You can monitor this by seeing exactly how much free space there is on the disk according to SS. This means in turn that once there's a fault on a disk, you're stuck with it. This isn't a problem with a hybrid disk (legacy formatted to Hi-MD) since a real erase in a real deck that predates HiMD will get rid of everything. It's also not a problem if you have an Onkyo deck. But the 1GB disks cause silly problems especially when the unit is run off battery power at record or edit time. It's minimised in the RH1 but all the earlier HiMD units come with a sticker with that warning about using lots of power. You should be able to do "format" ("initialize") but unfortunately, they decided to do the rights recovery even then.

When you consider that "true PCM" isn't that desirable (for MD it was really just another marketing gimmick) in 16-bits-only, you don't try to send PCM to the MD. You'll get a far better playback (from already recorded music) with 256 or 352 kbps. PCM is nice for recording live, provided you don't need to amplify the sound post facto. I just worked on an under recorded concert (automatic recording by preset equipment that I don't own). What saved me is that the recording was in 24 bits. This meant that digitally amplifying the signal (in Sound Forge) by 16 or 32 didn't make the signal sound patchy. If I only had 16 bits to start with, this technique likely wouldn't have worked.

So for starters, how can I completely wipe a HiMD disc using the RH1 or its PC management software? Is this plain impossible?

Is it also possible to format regular MD discs as HiMD's? Are there any ill effects in doing so?

[sfbp]

Taking the last first:

Yes, the times are all listed in terms of how much content you can have on a disk, in the manual. Wiping them can be fun as the HiMD "track" shows up in a normal deck as unwipe-able. This by design. You can wipe them in SS, or in an old deck that doesn't understand TrackProtect flags in the TOC.

As to wiping the disk, I honestly believe that the answer is NO. I had endless trouble until I got a deck which is completely PC-agnostic and therefore doesn't care about rights management.

[mimarsinan]

So what do you think about the radio loopback idea for recording? Would the remote work?

BTW I just discovered the "A" surround mode on my device. The remote text is in Japanese so I don't know what the "A" stands for, but my latest set sounds awesome with "A" surround:

This recording was made in Hi-SP mode with the same device. I would have tried PCM, but it wouldn't fit the full two hour program.

[sfbp]

You can't put the radio remote into the RH1's socket. Even if you could, the radio would be  completely independent, just another analog source to record from line in.

[PhilippeC]

A mean Atomic Sound. No, I am jocking.

[mimarsinan]

14 hours ago, sfbp said:

You can't put the radio remote into the RH1's socket. Even if you could, the radio would be  completely independent, just another analog source to record from line in.

I would be happy with that. Did you test the remotes, are you sure?

[mimarsinan]

11 hours ago, PhilippeC said:

A mean Atomic Sound. No, I am jocking.

Does anyone have a non-Japanese remote which explains what this means? I figured maybe it means Arena or something. I got new headphones today so I am eager to try them out again (Flares Pro) and check if they improve the bass.

Is it possible to buy English language remotes for this device anywhere? I've finally found some English units on eBay, but they're quite pricey. Would have been great to just get the remotes in my language, since only they are in Japanese.

[sfbp]

11 hours ago, mimarsinan said:

I would be happy with that. Did you test the remotes, are you sure?

yup. the plug has extra fins (the sockets for which) missing from nearly all MD units.

[mimarsinan]

11 hours ago, sfbp said:

yup. the plug has extra fins (the sockets for which) missing from nearly all MD units.

Still, isn't my idea then viable to record on the actual unit with the radio itself, directly, through the line-in?

[sfbp]

huh?

The only output from the radio is to the headphone socket.

The only power to the radio is through the 4 (?8) prong socket that goes (or DOESN'T GO) into the unit.

It won't work. The only unit it was designed for was the NHF800 (and you can sub an NH700 if you have the radio) or the NF810 (ditto ditto an N710). I have definitely found some units I can force it into, but most no way.

[mimarsinan]

Hmm, no new models of those items are available sadly, I checked both eBay and Amazon...

[sfbp]

None of this stuff has been available NIB for a while.

If you're really determined, the best place is Yahoo Japan which you can access via Buyee or From Japan. It's the ONLY place to find models that were never released outside Japan.

[mimarsinan]

Hmm, do you have any online links to product listings, perhaps?

I must admit I'm not excited about the idea of more Japanese language-only products though.

[sfbp]

The vast majority (especially decks and older MDs) tend to have mostly English interfaces anyway.

Go take a look at Buyee. For example eh-70, probably the most durable HiMD ever made:

https://buyee.jp/item/search/query/mz-eh70?translationType=1

[PhilippeC]

14 minutes ago, sfbp said:

Go take a look at Buyee. For example eh-70, probably the most durable HiMD ever made:

but a reader only

Stephen, did you have your own avatar before ?  Can't remember...

 

[PhilippeC]

On 20/12/2017 at 5:55 AM, mimarsinan said:

BTW I just discovered the "A" surround mode on my device. The remote text is in Japanese so I don't know what the "A" stands for, but my latest set sounds awesome with "A" surround:

See user manual in english page 45/88, Virtual sound : A stand for Arena

Arena          V-SUR A

アリーナ    V-SUR A

Is it what you were looking for ?

[mimarsinan]

1 hour ago, PhilippeC said:

See user manual in english page 45/88, Virtual sound : A stand for Arena

Arena          V-SUR A

アリーナ    V-SUR A

Is it what you were looking for ?

Sweet, thank you!

[PhilippeC]

So dowload both english and japanese user manuals...

http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/Sony_MZ-RH1_user_manual.pdf

http://www.sony.jp/ServiceArea/impdf/pdf/26690840M-JP.pdf

[mimarsinan]

Thanks for the links!!!

[sfbp]

7 hours ago, PhilippeC said:

but a reader only

However, it's trivial to put a different model in (either change the link, or search in English - may require a change on the site) to look for that. There's LOTS of stuff - if you recall there were about 6 MDS-W1 auctions. Same method of searching.

[PhilippeC]

We have to dig far more away to find our dream units.

[mimarsinan]

Hmm, do you think I can find brand new cassette walkmans on that site as well?

[sfbp]

Why not go look? I don't know any useful model numbers.....

[mimarsinan]

Well, the digital recording finally works, after multiple sets of intermediary cables!

The issue was indeed the output KHz, I reduced it from 96 to 48 and it worked like a charm.

The club mixer settings helped out with that. I also have various choices for digital signal output - -19dB, -15dB, -10dB, and -5dB.

The default was -19, but it sounded too low, so I set it to -15 because there was audible distortion at -10. Is -15 a good bet then for the digital out dB setting?

[sfbp]

I've never heard of having to REDUCE the gain. I am at this moment recording a source (don't ask) and have to add 6dB to it routinely. Maybe you can reduce the gain BEFORE it gets to the club mixer's output stage?

I had to convert a recording by multiplying by 32 (you do what you can with what you got) recently. As long as it's not PCM, it's fine since ATRAC is logarithmic and 24 bit PCM has almost infinite "headroom".

[PhilippeC]

I had the feeling that your frequency was higher than 48kHz

[rymannphilippe]

On 10/9/2017 at 6:41 AM, Sphig said:

Don't know if this helps - found a copy in my archives.....

you saved my day!!!
worked great to go from japan signs to english words.
just pusch MODE for long and folow your steps.

[PhilippeC]

Not only your day, your MD fan life.

[mimarsinan]

I am very excited to hear that a language change is possible for this device!

However, I am lost at the first step - "push in the wheel"...

Where exactly is this wheel?

The volume wheel on the remote cannot be pushed in anywhere, it only turns left or right.

The play/forward/reverse button can be pushed in, but pushing it in just plays a track (or does nothing if an MD is not inserted); moreover, it is not a wheel...

[sfbp]

The guy probably has an RM-MC40ELK.

But you can get into the menu using the menu button on the RH1. If that's no good you can get a partial menu by long-pressing mode(I think) on the RM-MC38ELK.