Stachu Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Hi I wonder is there any noticable difference if the same recording is being recoderd/played back with ATRAC-R and ATRAC-S codec? I consider buyng a second hand portable Sony's recorder and I wonder is it REALLy worth of paying more for ATRAC-S? Bests Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 ATRAC-S only benefits playback of MDLP (LP2, LP4). ATRAC-S does not affect recording. ATRAC-R benefits the recording of SP tracks and creates a track encoding that is beneficial for playback on any SP device, even those machines without the ATRAC-R DSP. So if you have a lot of LP2 and LP4 MDLP recordings you listen to, then ATRAC-S should be of benefit. If the machine has ATRAC-S then it definitely has ATRAC-R. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stachu Posted March 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 OK Got it, Kevin - thanks. Since I use LP2, it will be the right choice then :-) Thumbs up! Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 As I understand from other posts on this forum, ATRAC-S makes LP4 music listenable. I think LP2 is pretty good anyway but ATRAC-S should make it closer to SP. The only LP4 recording I have is an audio book (or two). You can tell it's not perfect but LP4 is perfectly fine for such material. However I did dub it from Type 1 compact cassette so the audio trail was not exactly perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stachu Posted March 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 I use my MD for music playback only, the higher quality the better, of course. But I basically don't use HiMD as I can't play it back on the MD deck then :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrab Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thought the MDLP rec/play on the JA333ES was of outstanding quality, especially considering it is a Type R unit. Many were the times it "fooled" me into thinking I was listening to a CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Triggered by this discussion amongst others related, I was trying to piece together the pre-HiMD timeline of ATRAC and what I might have in my own Sony and Tascam machines. Probably well understood already by those deep into the format, but I thought I'd drop a few notes here as it seems an appropriate thread. I'm talking about decks here, but Sony is likely to have aligned the technology within their mobile products within 6 months or so if not sooner. ATRAC1 v4.5 started with the MDM-5A drive (CXD2654 DSP), so with machines like my MDS-JE520 (1998 timeframe in the UK) Type R was added to ATRAC1 v4.5 with the MDM-5D drive (CXD2656 DSP), so with my newly working MDS-JE530. In this example, the deck boasts "ATRAC DSP Type-R" on the front panel, but this is probably not universal. What this means is, even though your machine is not MDLP, it might be Type R. At this point there is a CXD2660 DSP, which is used in the MZ-B50, but I don't have any more details on the ATRAC used. Possibly the same as the previous CXD2656? ATRAC3 came in with MDM-7A drive (CXD2662 DSP), so MDS-JE440/640/JB940. This is also Type R, but with MDLP added. The machine will say it's MDLP, so if it does, then you know it's also Type R. This was useful to know for my Tascam MD-350 and MD-CD1 Mk1's, since they are MDLP but don't mention Type R so it's good to know they are Type R (for SP recording/dubbing, Type R does not get used for high-speed dubbing from CD. They use CXD2662 DSP.). The Sony "Pro" decks MDS-E10 and MDS-E12 are MDM-7SC drive but use the CXD2662 DSP (Note: MDS-E11 is 1998 vintage so probably ATRAC1 v4.5 like the MDS-JE520). Type S came in with the MDM-7S1A series drives (CXD2664 DSP), so like MDS-JE480/780/JB980. Hope that helps anyone! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trott3r Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 I seem to remember that sony decks only had type r or s. Sony was worried about competition bring better and didn't license it. Iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, trott3r said: I seem to remember that sony decks only had type r or s. Sony was worried about competition bring better and didn't license it. Assume you mean "only Sony decks..."? Some manufacturers designed their own MD chipsets to Sony specifications for ATRAC and maybe Sony didn't release the later ATRAC specs and sold/licensed the chipset instead. My Tascam's seem to have Tascam-designed drives (as in they are not Sony MDM series drives), but they use the Sony CXA/CXD chipset. Probably the mechanicals are Tascam but the drive schematics are just licensed from Sony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearBoy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 I keep meaning to do some listening tests with some LP2 and LP4 recordings on my JB940 and JB980 to see whether I can hear any real difference between Type S and Type R. Once I (finally) get around to replacing the belt on my JB940 I'll give it a go. I've got portables with Type S and Type R but I think there would be too many other variables there to draw any useful conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 I thought there were portables (MZ-R700) which were MDLP but not type-R? see here: http://minidisc.org/sony_mzr97500_comparison.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgallen Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, sfbp said: I thought there were portables (MZ-R700) which were MDLP but not type-R? see here: http://minidisc.org/sony_mzr97500_comparison.html You had me worried there (well not worried, but you know...) I dug out the Service Manuals for the R700 and the R909. They both use the CXD2671 (slightly different chip package) DSP/controller, so despite what that table says they have the same DSP chip. If I remember correctly (or I'm confusing topics), Type R divides the frequency spectrum to 4 bands versus the 3 bands of ATRAC1 4.5, so it goes about its whole job in a different way. It's likely in my view that Type R is a complete replacement - it's not like it's a 4.5 with a clever bit bolted on the end you could disable (say for product differentiation or power reasons). The whole chop-up, analysis and encoding process is a function of the number of bands. I think if you've got an encoder that is Type R you've got that in total instead of an earlier generation ATRAC1 4.5 encoder. We're banished from the office at the moment where my MZ-R700 sits. When I get back in there I'll have a look to see what it says on the front. I might have a look on "the Bay" [*] to see if there are any photos that tell a story [**]. Too much fun we're having these few weeks on this forum, chaps. It's delightful to see the interest and contributions! [*] (c) sfbp from whom I've cribbed this representation mercilessly! [**] Agreed - the MZ-R909 does indeed boast Type R on the case whereas the MZ-R700 is decidedly mute on the topic. Wha'doiknow...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearBoy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, kgallen said: Too much fun we're having these few weeks on this forum, chaps. It's delightful to see the interest and contributions! There definitely does seem to have been something of a renaissance recently. Long may it continue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrab Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 4 hours ago, kgallen said: [**] Agreed - the MZ-R909 does indeed boast Type R on the case whereas the MZ-R700 is decidedly mute on the topic. Wha'doiknow...! http://minidisc.org/sony_mzr97500_comparison.html The likely reason for the [5|7|9]00 series being noted as -gte 4.5 is the available hack to upgrade these units to R. Recently saw a report of successful hack to R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjollo Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 The Sony MZ-B10 mini deck has type s. These days probably my favourite as it has small loudspeakers and uses 2xAA batteries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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