Best phones for the NW-S7xx?

[voxdub]

Thinking of upgrading my earphones, currently using the Sony's bundled with the NW-S706, would the Sennheiser CX300 / Shure E2G's provide a noticable improvement or should I stick with what I've got? Just a mate says his CX300's provide much better bass than the Sony NC022, but then he's using an ipod so I should probably ignore anything he says about sound quality.

[firbird]

stick with the bundled ones, they're the only ones which have NC but even if you don'y use that, the sound quality is pretty much impossible to surpass... save ur hard earned pennies!

[Zizone_]

If you don't mind giving up Noise-Canceling feature, I strongly recommend MDR-EX90. There is a noticeable improvement in separation and also in higher frequency. But most importantly, the hissing noise is greatly reduced, MDR-EX90 will make hissing problem a thing of past (I can say this with confidence; you can appreciate how quite this player really is).

You will be surprised that NW-S700 series can produce noticeable sound improvement with MDR-EX90. If you know anyone who has this headphone, just borrow it and try it at least.

Edited April 1, 2007 by Zizone

[Damage]

I'm going to say that you stick with the bundled in MDR-NC22s. They are essentially MDR-EX90 drivers with NC circuitry built in. The performance you get out of the NC22s should be fairly comparable to the experience that you'll likely get out of MDR-EX90s. The acoustic difference due to the different housing is probably minimal at best.

One issue that I'm not aware of, however, would be comfort. IF the drivers are too heavy for your ears, then it might be worth your money and time to persue IEMs or MDR-EX90s. Mind you, the MDR-EX90 path is lateral at best given your gear.

IF you're that worried about background hiss, turn off the NCs altogether. With NC on, you'll hear a bit of noise that's introduced by the noise cancelling circuitry. It can't be helped...

The EX90s, and by extension, NC22s, will be a bit bass shy compared to other Canal buds. Have you tried using the larger gaskets with the NC22s? The better the seal, the bigger and better the bass quality. I wouldn't recommend the CX300s compared to the NC22s, as the upgrade would be lateral at best (much like EX90s).

Frankly, unless you're willing to spend more than player itself or sacrifice portability and NC abilities by using larger phones, such as Grados SR60/80s, KOSS 60ohm series, MDR-V6 or SA line, Senn HD5xx line, etc. you won't see that dramatic of an improvement over the NC22s. Given their heritage and the NC abilities, I'd say stick with what you got until you're willing to go into big boy territory.

[Guest Stuge]

Yup ,I will also advise you to stick with MDR-NC022 they are good IMO .

[Zizone_]

Well, like I said before, to use Noise-Canceling feature MDR-NC022 is the only option.

Even turning off the Noise-Canceling feature, the background hiss is pretty noticeable (not much difference from having Noise Cancel ON).

But when using MDR-EX90, there is really a huge reduction in hissing noise.

And, yes both headphones use same size driver but MDR-EX90 has a larger frequency range (5-25000Hz) and max input 200mW compared to MDR-NC022's 100mW and frequency range of 8-22000Hz. As you can see, there are significant difference between two headphones. Also, the sound difference between two using NW-S700 series is very noticeable, e.g. when using MDR-EX90: significant reduction is hissing noise, better separation and better production in high frequency sounds.

Lastly, I am using MDR-EX90SL so the extension cord is being used as MDR-NC022. But I don't get the hissing problem with MDR-EX90SL. It is very difficult to write the difference, so I suggest go to stores and try it to hear the difference on your NW-S700 series.

Edited April 1, 2007 by Zizone

[voxdub]

thanks for the info, is much appreciated. think i'll stick with mdr-nc022s, when they give up the ghost i'll invest in the ex90s unless there's something better for the money in the future.

personally i don't find the 'hissing problem' too much of a problem, this is the first portable audio device that i regularly use on half volume as opposed to full with no complaints. the fact that earphones are such an important issue probably sums up how good the sound reproduction is on the new sony range, personally i'm more than impressed with the package in the box for the price, to think i was considering an ipod nano

[Zizone_]

thanks for the info, is much appreciated. think i'll stick with mdr-nc022s, when they give up the ghost i'll invest in the ex90s unless there's something better for the money in the future.

personally i don't find the 'hissing problem' too much of a problem, this is the first portable audio device that i regularly use on half volume as opposed to full with no complaints. the fact that earphones are such an important issue probably sums up how good the sound reproduction is on the new sony range, personally i'm more than impressed with the package in the box for the price, to think i was considering an ipod nano

Yes, indeed the MDR-NC022 is a very nice headphones and it is very nice how Sony is providing nice headphones in current line ups, e.g. NW-S700 and NW-A800 series. For this reason, I think Sony has one of the best deal.

Now, the only thing they need to improve seems to be a better software that comes with Walkmans; I heard that SonicStage is going to be replaced (?). I am just waiting for this official news and hoping that it isn't just a rumor.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Zizone

[Yoni45]

I heard that SonicStage is going to be replaced (?). I am just waiting for this official news and hoping that it isn't just a rumor.

That's not necessarily a good thing. It depends on what it's going to be replaced *with*...

Considering Sony's track record, I'd rather have them stick with and improve what they already have... (lest we forget the Connect Player debacle... )

[juli_]

Hi - I'm new here and would really like some advice please! I've read all the comments about the nc-022 supplied headphones but still have some questions! I have the nw-s706 with the nc-022 headphones and wanted to upgrade the headphones. I tried the super.fi 5 pro ones and although the sound is much better (and louder!) than the nc-022, they're not as comfortable as the nc-022 and I had quite bad earache in my left eardrum after using the super.fi's even at low volume for less than an hour. Although the sound quality was great, I actually prefer the more 'compressed' sound of the nc-022 as opposed to the strange 'wideness' of the super.fi's.

I read the comments about the ex-90's only being a 'lateral' move from the nc-022 - can someone please explain if they:

1) fit into the ears the same way as the nc-022 (which I find pretty comfortable) as I keep reading that they let in a lot of outside noise. Is the 'outside noise' the equivalent of using the nc-o22 with noise-cancelling swtiched off - or does the leakage come from the fact they fit differently into the ear than the nc-022? I'd like to know as I don't tend to use the noise-cancelling facility anyway so wouldn't mind if the leakage was the same as NC off.

2) as the ex-90 and nc022 are both 16 ohms impedance, does that mean they're as 'loud' as each other? Someone mentioned the ex-90s had a wider range and reduced the hiss on the unit. I can cope with the hiss but wondered if the actual sound quality is better than the supplied headphones. I do like the nc-022's but wanted a slightly better (clearer?) sound perhaps at lower volumes.

I know one reviewer Zizone said they were better, but didn't quite explain the differences in a way I could picture. So, if Zizone is reading, can you tell me a little more please? How much better are the ex-90s in comparison with the nc-022 and if anyone else has been able to compare them directly please tell me. Are the clearer, louder, same fit etc? The photo shows a slightly different housing so I want to know if they fit the same way as the supplied phones. Sorry to go on for so long, but it looks like a really informative site so I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance![

Edited April 10, 2007 by juli

[Zizone_]

Hi - I'm new here and would really like some advice please! I've read all the comments about the nc-022 supplied headphones but still have some questions! I have the nw-s706 with the nc-022 headphones and wanted to upgrade the headphones. I tried the super.fi 5 pro ones and although the sound is much better (and louder!) than the nc-022, they're not as comfortable as the nc-022 and I had quite bad earache in my left eardrum after using the super.fi's even at low volume for less than an hour. Although the sound quality was great, I actually prefer the more 'compressed' sound of the nc-022 as opposed to the strange 'wideness' of the super.fi's.

I read the comments about the ex-90's only being a 'lateral' move from the nc-022 - can someone please explain if they:

1) fit into the ears the same way as the nc-022 (which I find pretty comfortable) as I keep reading that they let in a lot of outside noise. Is the 'outside noise' the equivalent of using the nc-o22 with noise-cancelling swtiched off - or does the leakage come from the fact they fit differently into the ear than the nc-022? I'd like to know as I don't tend to use the noise-cancelling facility anyway so wouldn't mind if the leakage was the same as NC off.

2) as the ex-90 and nc022 are both 16 ohms impedance, does that mean they're as 'loud' as each other? Someone mentioned the ex-90s had a wider range and reduced the hiss on the unit. I can cope with the hiss but wondered if the actual sound quality is better than the supplied headphones. I do like the nc-022's but wanted a slightly better (clearer?) sound perhaps at lower volumes.

I know one reviewer Zizone said they were better, but didn't quite explain the differences in a way I could picture. So, if Zizone is reading, can you tell me a little more please? How much better are the ex-90s in comparison with the nc-022 and if anyone else has been able to compare them directly please tell me. Are the clearer, louder, same fit etc? The photo shows a slightly different housing so I want to know if they fit the same way as the supplied phones. Sorry to go on for so long, but it looks like a really informative site so I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance![

MDR-EX90 fits just same as MDR-NC022 but the former feels slightly lighter. When using MDR-EX90, you will hear the outside/ambient noise much more than MDR-NC022 since MDR-EX90 can't not provide noise-canceling feature. But when the noise-canceling feature is off, MDR-NC022 seems to be little better in making a tight seal.

As for the volume, MDR-NC022 seems to be louder. Volume 2 for MC022 seems to similar to volume 4 or 5 for MDR-EX90. But as the volume goes up, the volume distinction become more narrowed. So, at low volume MDR-NC022 sounds louder but at high volume they are about the same. But the volume shouldn't be much of a problem for both headphones.

MDR-EX90 provides much better sounds. It provides much crisper sound, separation and higher frequency, but MDR-NC022 seems to provide better bass. So I just use one notch higher clear bass for the MDR-EX90.

e.g. if you listen to rock music, the guitar and drums sound is crisper with MDR-EX90.

I don't know whether I answered all your questions, but if you have more please let me know.

[juli_]

Thanks so much for your help. It's much easier to understand when someone has actually tried the headphones side by side. I guess I was expecting the mdr-ex90 to produce quite a big difference, but from the sound of it the phones are quite similar. One thing I need clearing up - you said that the mdr-ex90 is unable to cut ambient noise (because they're not noise cancelling like the nc-022) but I still didn't quite get if the sound would be like the nc-022 with the NC switched off. You said the nc-022 provided a bit of a better 'seal' with the NC switched off than the ex-90, and when you say the ex-90 feels 'lighter' do you mean the fit feels 'looser' - and so it would let in more noise anyway? Do they feel as if they would fall out? The nc-022 feel very secure in my ears so I wouldn't want to swap for phones that I had to keep adjusting.

In your opinion, can you tell a clear difference between the nc-022 and ex-90 if you didn't know which phones you were using? My headphone listening is mainly acoustic and classical - and I listen to rock on my home system so that's not a problem if the bass is lighter on the ex-90 -I just wondered if you considered them much better than the nc-022 or just a little better! So - if you were in a quiet place and swapped between headphones, would it make a noticeable difference? I can always use the nc-022 for trains, planes etc - but my main listening is at home where it's fairly quiet, and that is what I would buy the ex-90s for.

Thanks again for the help!

[Zizone_]

Thanks so much for your help. It's much easier to understand when someone has actually tried the headphones side by side. I guess I was expecting the mdr-ex90 to produce quite a big difference, but from the sound of it the phones are quite similar. One thing I need clearing up - you said that the mdr-ex90 is unable to cut ambient noise (because they're not noise cancelling like the nc-022) but I still didn't quite get if the sound would be like the nc-022 with the NC switched off. You said the nc-022 provided a bit of a better 'seal' with the NC switched off than the ex-90, and when you say the ex-90 feels 'lighter' do you mean the fit feels 'looser' - and so it would let in more noise anyway? Do they feel as if they would fall out? The nc-022 feel very secure in my ears so I wouldn't want to swap for phones that I had to keep adjusting.

In your opinion, can you tell a clear difference between the nc-022 and ex-90 if you didn't know which phones you were using? My headphone listening is mainly acoustic and classical - and I listen to rock on my home system so that's not a problem if the bass is lighter on the ex-90 -I just wondered if you considered them much better than the nc-022 or just a little better! So - if you were in a quiet place and swapped between headphones, would it make a noticeable difference? I can always use the nc-022 for trains, planes etc - but my main listening is at home where it's fairly quiet, and that is what I would buy the ex-90s for.

Thanks again for the help!

Well, the difference made by MDR-EX90 is significant enough for me to use MDR-EX90 instead of MDR-NC022 (unless you really need NC feature). The sound between MDR-EX90 and MDR-NC022 (when NC if off) is quite different; it is really hard to describe sound in terms of words but I can say that is crisper (like 1080p and 480p difference if I were to compare in terms of TVs).

When I say the headphones feel light, I meant that actual weight seems to be lighter (no headphones does not feel like it it were falling off from the ears). It may feel lighter maybe because MDR-NC022's extension cord is a bit heavier.

I can definitely tell the difference between two headphones without knowing which one I am using. The difference is pretty obvious.

I also listen to classics and MDR-EX90 sounds much better at this genre of music because of much less hiss sound.

The difference is very noticeable, and MDR-EX90 replaced my MDR-NC022 for me (usually the environment, where I listen to music, is pretty quite and NC is somewhat unnecessary for me). The use of NC really depends on people and environment. I believe, when using NC then music quality is somewhat reduced, especially when NC is used in really noisy area.

Anyways, the difference is significant enough to notice two phones without knowing which one I am using. The sound is, again, much crisper and has better separation.

Considering the MDR-EX90 is $80 and up, so it is really up to the user if the difference is worth the money. As for me, it is worth it. Since you are listening music at home, NC feature not really necessary and MDR-EX90 will give you much clear (much reduced hiss), crisper sound. I really believe that NW-S700 sounds better with MDR-EX90. And when you do need NC feature, you can just swap the headphones, which is what I do.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Zizone

[juli_]

Ok, great. You've convinced me. I'll get them. Like I said, the NC is not an issue for me as I don't travel regularly enough to need it.

Thanks so much for the help and prompt reply. Long live the internet!!

[Zizone_]

Ok, great. You've convinced me. I'll get them. Like I said, the NC is not an issue for me as I don't travel regularly enough to need it.

Thanks so much for the help and prompt reply. Long live the internet!!

No problem

But I just have to say that NC is a really nice feature though. It is in fact the only feature that is really not considered as a gimmicks like album art or video.

Anyways, if you don't regularly need NC, since you mostly listen to music at home, I believe you will be happy with MDR-EX90

[Ishiyoshi]

*topic moved to 'phones section of the forum

[hk_loves_u]

Hey, im wondering if the noise cancel actually cancels out alot of noise? i have been playing around with the phones but it seems the provided phones dont cancel out that much more noise when the noise cancel s on compared to when its off? is this true to anyone else?

[markey]

Hey, im wondering if the noise cancel actually cancels out alot of noise? i have been playing around with the phones but it seems the provided phones dont cancel out that much more noise when the noise cancel s on compared to when its off? is this true to anyone else?

They only cut out 75% of ambiant noise. You will here some but it's greatly reduced. I use my one on the London underground every day and they definitely do work.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Hey, im wondering if the noise cancel actually cancels out alot of noise? i have been playing around with the phones but it seems the provided phones dont cancel out that much more noise when the noise cancel s on compared to when its off? is this true to anyone else?

I was able to test the noise cancellation in the store before purchasing the a NW-S700 series Walkman. My first impression using a special test centre was that it seemed not to really do anything. This is a special setup, created by Sony, allowed the user to test the NW-S700 in a special case, by pressing two buttons. However, I will assure you that the noise cancellation do indeed work.

The first time I used it during my daily commute, I did not think that the noise cancellation made a difference. That was until I turned off the noise cancellation feature, and noticed it worked exceptionally.

There are sounds that can not be canceled because they are random. The noise cancellation function will slightly reduces the sound of a person's voice, but will greatly reduce the sound of a crowd.

The microphones on the headphones will pick any sound. Wind blowing on the headphones will make things noisier. Any loud sounds close to the microphone will make it seem that there is more noise, because the microphones are designed to pickup noises faraway. This can be adjusted in the setup menu.

The design of the headphones and the noise cancellation allow you to enjoy your music at lower volumes, and less outside noise.

Those that have a NW-S700 series Walkman, will attest that the feature does indeed work.

[aob9]

Unless I require NC I always use my Seinheisser CX 300's. While sound quality is much the same as the bundled phones they cannot be beaten for comfort IMO.

[hk_loves_u]

Ah thank you very much for your reply!. I also want to ask how do you set the mic settings ? like mic+ and mic-? what do they mean?

[veggiemusician]

I have the bundled S705 earphones, EX90s and Westone UM2.

Now Ive modded my EX90s by putting clingfilm over the 3 vents - this improves both sound quality and isolation. Have a look at my ex90 post on headfi.

The EX90s(modded) do sound much better than the NC022's - theres more bass and treble clarity. Also the volume is louder. Isolation is about the same as with the NC022's turn on.... I dont think the NC022's isloate very well on their own!

The UM2s beat both - as you would expect for a $300 pair of earphones.... I use sony EX buds on mine and they islolate beter than with NC turned on with NC022's.

My advice is stick with the NC022's as they are still very good for "free" phones. Unless they brake theres no real reason to upgrade.

[ceres]

I have the bundled S705 earphones, EX90s and Westone UM2.

Now Ive modded my EX90s by putting clingfilm over the 3 vents - this improves both sound quality and isolation. Have a look at my ex90 post on headfi.

The EX90s(modded) do sound much better than the NC022's - theres more bass and treble clarity. Also the volume is louder. Isolation is about the same as with the NC022's turn on.... I dont think the NC022's isloate very well on their own!

The UM2s beat both - as you would expect for a $300 pair of earphones.... I use sony EX buds on mine and they islolate beter than with NC turned on with NC022's.

My advice is stick with the NC022's as they are still very good for "free" phones. Unless they brake theres no real reason to upgrade.

They UM2 may beat the Sonys, but only marginally imo, at no point justifying the huge price tag. I would argue that UM2 and other rather older technological designs fare comparably poor against the likes of sony mx 90, pana hje 70 and audio technica ck7. I´d dare compare the situation to the digital camera market. A Pro Camera from 2002 may still produce superior results to a 600 USD 2007 camera but the benefit is marginal and for most not worth the huge markup.

[veggiemusician]

They UM2 may beat the Sonys, but only marginally imo, at no point justifying the huge price tag. I would argue that UM2 and other rather older technological designs fare comparably poor against the likes of sony mx 90, pana hje 70 and audio technica ck7. I´d dare compare the situation to the digital camera market. A Pro Camera from 2002 may still produce superior results to a 600 USD 2007 camera but the benefit is marginal and for most not worth the huge markup.

I compleatly dissagree with your post and Im not if you have really listened to the UM2s to make an Inteligent comment... The earphones you mentioned are not even near the same leauge as the UM2's which also have a newer driver technology than EX90 HJE70's etc. The UM2's have a much bigger sound and clarity. There is as much difference between stock apple earbuds to the HJE 70 as there is from the HJE70 to the UM2s.

Out of the box EX90s are not great in my opinion - but once modded they can start to get near Shure E4 standards if not better them.

[ceres]

well. they are 4 yrs old which makes them relatively old in comparison to the mx 90 which sony claims are a totally new technical design and so forth. again, this is my personal opinion, soundwise they [ um2] are bested by the 2 yrs old UE sf 5 Pro which provide a unique soundstage that reminds me of my b&W, not iems . While the UM2 may appear to be bigger and clearer they are not worth the huge markup. Combine a 300 USD price tag with 1yr warranty and I don´t think you are getting appropriate value. That´s what I was arguing. They are better,sure. But not that good. The gap between any stockbuds and the mx90 is imo much, much larger than from mx 90 to any 200 USD IEM. Of course, personal opinions and taste vary greatly. I was just trying to make a point as most people are disappointed at what they get for 200-300 $ these days.

Edited June 16, 2007 by ceres

[veggiemusician]

http://www.earphonesolutions.com/beeaforip.html