Hello iPod, bye Sony

[superiorduck]

A few months ago i was stolen my great, beuatiful, NW-HD3, Black, and for me, a few gigs is no enough for me. My HD3 had 20 Gb, fabulous sound, and small size, but, once lost, which DAP next? The Creative Zen, 30Gb, color screen and video playback, and beautiful looks, but you can't use it as a mass storage, unless you install a proprietary software to do so. Sony?, well, they have the A8000, but for the features, is very expensive, and the others Sony's DAP, hmmm, very small in capacity, small screen also, lack of accessories. The other, Apple iPod. I've had to admit, I'd bought in a rush, some friend of mine went to the States for a weekend, and, well, the next monday, a new black, shiny 30Gb iPod, 5.5 gen was in my hands. So far, i found my new iPod, fabulous, for me, and i'm not an audiophile, i have to accept that the sound of the iPod, is, in my humble opinion, far more crisp and detailed than my stolen HD3. The way that I manage the files with iTunes is like a breeze, not like the horrid experience with SonicStage. The screen, well, color!, is a nice feature, great resolution, nice interface, but, is a not essential. But when you navigate in the iPod menu, you find a well designed piece of hardware and software, is very easy find the song you want to hear, you can easy create playlists, and, this is great, the EQ really works, no matter the extension of your music files, instead HD3, only works with ATRAC, and I only have mp3's.

About the video, well, this is a nice thing, but only for show off in front a friends, this is a useless feature in a 2.5 inch display, despite the quality of the image. I bought my iPod only for music.

The cons of the iPod... is a freakin' fingerprints magnet, it get dirty as far as you pull it out the box, not like the HD3, aluminum case, also very resilient. The iPod's plastic front and the metallic back get scratched really easy, and a case is a must have. And, one thing that really hates about my iPod, is the volume control, the clickwheel is not quite precise, and sometimes is very hard to control the volume, I miss a dedicated volume button or rocker.

Well, nothing is perfect, but at this time, I'll stick with my iPod, and hope, in the near future, Sony releases a truly iPod Killer, or, at least, a serious competitor, I hate see myself like a sheep with a white earbuds among thousands more.

Thanks for the great information about Sony DAP's and related info, your work is very important and valuable.

I'll see you around

[ppau0822]

A few months ago i was stolen my great, beuatiful, NW-HD3, Black, and for me, a few gigs is no enough for me. My HD3 had 20 Gb, fabulous sound, and small size, but, once lost, which DAP next? The Creative Zen, 30Gb, color screen and video playback, and beautiful looks, but you can't use it as a mass storage, unless you install a proprietary software to do so. Sony?, well, they have the A8000, but for the features, is very expensive, and the others Sony's DAP, hmmm, very small in capacity, small screen also, lack of accessories. The other, Apple iPod. I've had to admit, I'd bought in a rush, some friend of mine went to the States for a weekend, and, well, the next monday, a new black, shiny 30Gb iPod, 5.5 gen was in my hands. So far, i found my new iPod, fabulous, for me, and i'm not an audiophile, i have to accept that the sound of the iPod, is, in my humble opinion, far more crisp and detailed than my stolen HD3. The way that I manage the files with iTunes is like a breeze, not like the horrid experience with SonicStage. The screen, well, color!, is a nice feature, great resolution, nice interface, but, is a not essential. But when you navigate in the iPod menu, you find a well designed piece of hardware and software, is very easy find the song you want to hear, you can easy create playlists, and, this is great, the EQ really works, no matter the extension of your music files, instead HD3, only works with ATRAC, and I only have mp3's.

About the video, well, this is a nice thing, but only for show off in front a friends, this is a useless feature in a 2.5 inch display, despite the quality of the image. I bought my iPod only for music.

The cons of the iPod... is a freakin' fingerprints magnet, it get dirty as far as you pull it out the box, not like the HD3, aluminum case, also very resilient. The iPod's plastic front and the metallic back get scratched really easy, and a case is a must have. And, one thing that really hates about my iPod, is the volume control, the clickwheel is not quite precise, and sometimes is very hard to control the volume, I miss a dedicated volume button or rocker.

Well, nothing is perfect, but at this time, I'll stick with my iPod, and hope, in the near future, Sony releases a truly iPod Killer, or, at least, a serious competitor, I hate see myself like a sheep with a white earbuds among thousands more.

Thanks for the great information about Sony DAP's and related info, your work is very important and valuable.

I'll see you around

i too wanted to get an ipod after i sold my s706, because of the clunky controls. but i did a sq test againt the a808 and there was no way i was going to get the ipod. i value sound more than looks and so i have to put up with ss, but you do get used to it i guess.

and i hope, along with you that sony really releases a ipod killer!

[AntiPod]

hmm congrats. well if you favour iPod more over Walkman, it's totally personal.

but i must add that the 6th iPod generation is gonna come out in less than a week. If i were u i would choose to wait for a while before buying the 5.5 ipod video

[Old skool D]

Well, nothing is perfect, but at this time, I'll stick with my iPod, and hope, in the near future, Sony releases a truly iPod Killer.

I don't think there will ever be a Ipod Killer. What Sony could do is improve SS, as for many people, this is important. I hope you enjoy your ipod, but stick around. new developments could be afoot!

[Old skool D]

Well, nothing is perfect, but at this time, I'll stick with my iPod, and hope, in the near future, Sony releases a truly iPod Killer.I don't think there will ever be a Ipod Killer. What Sony could do is improve SS, as for many people, this is important. I hope you enjoy your ipod, but stick around. new developments could be afoot!

Edited June 26, 2007 by GQ Smooth

[Shinji Ikeda]

Congratulation on your new purchase. I would have to agree with GQSmooth, there will not be an iPod killer. Yes, iPod have more third party accessories than any other player. This is due to the popularity of the iPod over the years, and with companies trying to cash in on the popularity of the iPod. Sony need to continue to improve SonicStage for both the neophytes and power users.

[dura_]

So far, i found my new iPod, fabulous, for me, and i'm not an audiophile, i have to accept that the sound of the iPod, is, in my humble opinion, far more crisp and detailed than my stolen HD3.

A shocking statement, but if you feel that way, then so is it for you.

Personally I do not like the sound signature of ipods att all, but if I would I would buy an ipod too; the nice interface, itunes and very broad support like 3th party accesoires would win me over despite Sony's better build quality.

[ceres]

you don´t have to use the wihite ear buds and getting the black version was a mistake imo.

you´ll notice minor fissures after only sliding the pod in and out of the case. Those fissures will quickly add up.

Anyway, I have owned many iPods myself and don´t rule out future purchases. It was a good experience.

[ppau0822]

hmm congrats. well if you favour iPod more over Walkman, it's totally personal.

but i must add that the 6th iPod generation is gonna come out in less than a week. If i were u i would choose to wait for a while before buying the 5.5 ipod video

do you mean the iphone? i havent really heard of the 6th gen ipod apart from people saying that the iphone might be it.

[Guest Stuge]

Anyone who is sticking to Sony is because of sound quality ,otherwise we would have been converted to i-pod long before .

[pata2001]

Anyone who is sticking to Sony is because of sound quality ,otherwise we would have been converted to i-pod long before .

Sony's colored sound != sound quality.

To superiorduck: Congrats on the iPod. Try to learn using iTunes and creating smart playlist to get more enjoyment form your iPod.

[vkone]

Sony's colored sound != sound quality.

To superiorduck: Congrats on the iPod. Try to learn using iTunes and creating smart playlist to get more enjoyment form your iPod.

you would have to show this using methods of quantitative analysis.

i don´t know about the past but i was looking for a 8gb flash replacement for my 5.5g ipod / samsung z5 2gb and only came across one test of the sony 808 in a german dap magazine.

www.mp3flash.de

the figures there don´t indicate colored sound and my personal experience with the device doesn´t show any.

however, i have found sony´s music management software to be a real hassle. thus, i stll use itunes as my pc audio file manager.

btw sony supplies their walkmen with a 2 yr warrenty in my region these days so that´s a quality statement imo. I really have to say that I enjoyed my ipod quite a bit

but I was disappointed with the nano in comparison to the sony 808 and the iriver clix 2 that I was also contemplating.

[mp3fan]

there will be an ipod killer, because no brand can be forever always ruling the portable audio kingdom. Who would have thought that Sony walkman can even lose to Apple. When people were using Sony back all those 10 yrs 20 yrs 30 yrs, we all thought that this Sony giant would never lose, it was impossible to think of a Walkman killer until the ipod, same thing for apple, it can rule for few years or many years, but eventually something else will replace it

However disappointed for the fact that it is the ipod which took over the market from Sony, because Sony for all these years have brought us top sound quality, such as cd walkman and MD, ipod is nothing but flat music. U can take it as fashion and playful toy item but not serious for listening to ur music, i am sure at least we can tell the SQ from Sony and Apple's comparison. Though Sony has started late in the DAP game, but the NW-A, S, E, HD are all very powerful lines of production

[juli_]

there will be an ipod killer, because no brand can be forever always ruling the portable audio kingdom. Who would have thought that Sony walkman can even lose to Apple. When people were using Sony back all those 10 yrs 20 yrs 30 yrs, we all thought that this Sony giant would never lose, it was impossible to think of a Walkman killer until the ipod, same thing for apple, it can rule for few years or many years, but eventually something else will replace it

However disappointed for the fact that it is the ipod which took over the market from Sony, because Sony for all these years have brought us top sound quality, such as cd walkman and MD, ipod is nothing but flat music. U can take it as fashion and playful toy item but not serious for listening to ur music, i am sure at least we can tell the SQ from Sony and Apple's comparison. Though Sony has started late in the DAP game, but the NW-A, S, E, HD are all very powerful lines of production

Yes, I completely agree with you. I think the Sony sound is light years ahead of the ipod. I listened to some stuff on my friends ipod and I was shocked at how flat and lifeless the tone was. I would choose never to listen to music again if my only option was to hear it on the ipod.

However, she loves her ipod because SQ is not her priority. Ease of use, features, the accessories, "it's pretty" are what attarcts her. All her stuff is in 128kbps and she couldn't be happier. I would rather sacrifice my sanity and struggle on with the 'joy' that is SonicStage, just because the sound is so rewarding and enjoyable. It's all about different needs for different people, and I would imagine that people who put SQ above everything else are in the minority. I say this based on the amount of ipod users, and the fact I asked 20 people I worked with if SQ or ease of use was the most important factor. Only 4 people said SQ a priority, the rest said 'easy software' 'quick transfers' anything that would save time.

It's a shame because I've had 3 Sony players and have never been able to fault the sound of any of them compared with any other brand, plus they pack quite a lot of power into their tiny amps, I only ever get to half volume for casual listening - on the ipod and creative vision m, I need almost maximum to achieve the same loudness, and the quality isn't even comparable. Sony just gets it right with the sound.

Edited June 29, 2007 by juli

[Guest Stuge]

Sony's colored sound != sound quality.

Rightly said .

Who would have thought that Sony walkman can even lose to Apple. When people were using Sony back all those 10 yrs 20 yrs 30 yrs,

So here again we might have to wait for another 20 years or so ,before Apple loses to some other company .

[gotthat]

if sony did improve the ss long time ago, if sony did have a better connect store when itune came out, if sony wiped out all of the complaint with right moves, if they joined the dap game earlier on, what's the chance to go against apple? at its best result, sony and apple will share the market pretty much half to half, cause there are people who don't care much about sq, they don't know what's sq all about, they want fun download and good play with the ipod, people need different things, we definitely need sq that's why we come here and talk about it at this forum, others may buy for other reasons, but sony product quality is definitely the best in portable audio device

[pata2001]

i am sure at least we can tell the SQ from Sony and Apple's comparison.

Done any ABX yet?

[bangraman]

Done any ABX yet?

Yes.

[Shinji Ikeda]

there will be an ipod killer, because no brand can be forever always ruling the portable audio kingdom. Who would have thought that Sony walkman can even lose to Apple. When people were using Sony back all those 10 yrs 20 yrs 30 yrs, we all thought that this Sony giant would never lose, it was impossible to think of a Walkman killer until the ipod, same thing for apple, it can rule for few years or many years, but eventually something else will replace it

However disappointed for the fact that it is the ipod which took over the market from Sony, because Sony for all these years have brought us top sound quality, such as cd walkman and MD, ipod is nothing but flat music. U can take it as fashion and playful toy item but not serious for listening to ur music, i am sure at least we can tell the SQ from Sony and Apple's comparison. Though Sony has started late in the DAP game, but the NW-A, S, E, HD are all very powerful lines of production

Actually, Sony still dominates their spheres. Apple sells the most DAP of any other manufacturer. Sony never planned correctly for the explosion of the digital audio player market. There are several reasons for this.

The most affluential consumers prefer to copy music of their CD and transfer them to their DAP than rerecord these same CD to other formats. It is a lot quicker, less error prone. However, the cost for entering this market is quite expressive, since these same consumers require to a computer. The price of purchasing a computer drop. I have know people who have purchased a computer for the purpose of listening to music.

Sony needed to protect its other investments, thus Sony introduced different technologies such as MediaGate and SonicStage. I for one refused to purchase Sony DAP and similar products for this reason. I really do not need to have my audio files protected, or have any type of restrictions on them. Apple had no reason to do the same, and thus did not.

The length of the iPods domination in the DAP market depends on the will Apple diversifiers there product line, but Apple has proven inept at this. However, for the DAP market this has been very successful for Apple. This might be due to the accessory market for iPod and iPod-nano.

[pata2001]

Yes.

Hey, I didn't ask you. I know you did.

[JBdeal]

Obviously sony is not making any cd player or md now, from its production focus of HD1-5, NW-A, S and E they are trying to do something, but it's not really bringing them the number one position or anything, considering people are using ipod as their choice of portable enjoyment, instead of any sony walkman. Sonicstage i have no complain about, but it seems majority of people had complaint about from ss to connect store, even loyal sony users want software part to improve. sony was the number one in the portable audio choice with their walkman, who cares about SQ, plus SQ is so subjective, people just want to have a ipod instead of walkman

[Shinji Ikeda]

Obviously sony is not making any cd player or md now, ...

That is interesting. Sony still sells CD players, tape players, and MD. I could have sworn that the last time I was in an Electronic Store that I say some CD players selling for about $30 US Dollars. It should be obvious that the advantages of DAP is not price, and this includes the most popular brand.

People are using DAP from other manufactures such as iRiver, Microsoft and many other companies. Additionally, some consumers have been using their cellphones to listen to music, and some of the older technologies.

It used to be most consumers made decisions based on what they considered what was best. Whether is was battery life, Sound Quality, size, price, and many other attribute. It seem that now it is only a select few.

[ceres]

That is interesting. Sony still sells CD players, tape players, and MD. I could have sworn that the last time I was in an Electronic Store that I say some CD players selling for about $30 US Dollars. It should be obvious that the advantages of DAP is not price, and this includes the most popular brand.

People are using DAP from other manufactures such as iRiver, Microsoft and many other companies. Additionally, some consumers have been using their cellphones to listen to music, and some of the older technologies.

It used to be most consumers made decisions based on what they considered what was best. Whether is was battery life, Sound Quality, size, price, and many other attribute. It seem that now it is only a select few.

Well actually, I am seeing more and more young people switching to cell phones for on the go audio consumption. Mobile phones, even the really good ones, can be bought for as little as 1 Euro with a subsidised contract. Usually, cell phone prices begin to drop sharply after 6 months so by then every phone becomes affordable to a huge crowd. Also sd cards are going dirt cheap already 2gig will soon come for free with a case of beer

Also, the vast majority do not care for sq so even right now the cell phone is a great proposition. IMO dedicated high cost daps will be marginalized and cater soley to a shrinking customer base such as afacionados, geeks and so forth.

[bangraman]

Well actually, I am seeing more and more young people switching to cell phones for on the go audio consumption. Mobile phones, even the really good ones, can be bought for as little as 1 Euro with a subsidised contract. Usually, cell phone prices begin to drop sharply after 6 months so by then every phone becomes affordable to a huge crowd. Also sd cards are going dirt cheap already 2gig will soon come for free with a case of beer

Also, the vast majority do not care for sq so even right now the cell phone is a great proposition. IMO dedicated high cost daps will be marginalized and cater soley to a shrinking customer base such as afacionados, geeks and so forth.

I don't think so - at least, not in the case of the iPod. They have enough flexibility in their players to be a viable proposition even along with an MP3-phone (especially one not made by Apple) in a way that for example a Sony player isn't.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Well actually, I am seeing more and more young people switching to cell phones for on the go audio consumption. Mobile phones, even the really good ones, can be bought for as little as 1 Euro with a subsidised contract. Usually, cell phone prices begin to drop sharply after 6 months so by then every phone becomes affordable to a huge crowd. Also sd cards are going dirt cheap already 2gig will soon come for free with a case of beer

Also, the vast majority do not care for sq so even right now the cell phone is a great proposition. IMO dedicated high cost daps will be marginalized and cater soley to a shrinking customer base such as afacionados, geeks and so forth.

So then why are you agreeing with me. Maybe is the fact that we are on opposite sides of the world.

I don't think so - at least, not in the case of the iPod. They have enough flexibility in their players to be a viable proposition even along with an MP3-phone (especially one not made by Apple) in a way that for example a Sony player isn't.

Bangraman, the Apple products fall into the same category as you listed above. I constantly read about the advantages of the Apple's products over the competition, from their DAP to their laptops. It all comes down to consumer choice, this includes all Apple products.

As Ceres, stated the high cost of DAPs will only cater soley to a shrinking customer base. Consumers purchase technology based on what they can financially justify (keyword: afford).

[ceres]

So then why are you agreeing with me. Maybe is the fact that we are on opposite sides of the world.

Bangraman, the Apple products fall into the same category as you listed above. I constantly read about the advantages of the Apple's products over the competition, from their DAP to their laptops. It all comes down to consumer choice, this includes all Apple products.

As Ceres, stated the high cost of DAPs will only cater soley to a shrinking customer base. Consumers purchase technology based on what they can financially justify (keyword: afford).

Hi,

I don´t seem to properly understand you. Are you saying that you are making the same observation in Japan?

[Shinji Ikeda]

Hi,

I don´t seem to properly understand you. Are you saying that you are making the same observation in Japan?

What I am saying is that more and more people are using cellphones for their music enjoyment. This is generally younger consumers. However, some are returning to music specific devices. There are obvious reason for this.

I have seem people use their cellphones to listen to music while working out, traveling on the train.

What I am observation is a vast difference in how people are listening to there music. From your standard radio, to MD player, to DAP and cellphone.

With the advent of use of cellphone as primary music player is cost. It is cheap and more convenient that high cost DAP, and that is what consumers choose.

Sound Quality, battery life and other features are what consumers will sacrifice to save a few cents. As, stated by you customer base such as afacionados, geeks and so forth when explain the high cost DAP market, is correct. For me more cents in my pocket is important for me, but other things are more important. For other consumers what is best for them is extra dollars in there pockets.

[superiorduck]

I'd never thought that post will continue... maybe it's a sensible topic, anyway, i want to say one thing, my stolen NW HD3 was a great sound, and really miss it, a lot!! but, again, i'm not an audiophile, and I don't use any Hi-Fi headphones, in fact, because iPod's white earphones are a robbers magnet, i use my old NWHD3 Sony earphones. I'm don't need (but I wish) a fancy or expensive Etymotic or Shure earphones to hear my Pink Floyd collection, but I understand the pursuit of quality of this forum, but, for a moment, be realistic, there is any difference between an iPod's crappy earphones, and Sony's? I believe the difference is inside the player, and so far, i found a little bit better sound in the iPod, but is a personal believe.... maybe if a have a 500 US$ Shure earphones, maybe I can tell a real, scientific difference, if you wish, in favor of Sony.

There is a hype about the iPod, and all manufacturers with any relation with this niche, including Sony, wants to take advantage with this hype, and outhere, Bang & Olufsen, Harman Kardon, Denon, Bose, known for their high standard in Hi-Fi sound, they have fully integration products with iPod, and, yes, is a commercial strategy, but, they don't want to sell a HiFi product, if the source - iPod - sound like, well, like you wish to think, less than Sony. Hey!, even Sony have sound docks for iPod.

One final thought: Sony's really big trouble is not iPod, is iTunes, and the whole sales structure involved. If you have a DAP, fully integrated with a efficient sales scheme, a software where you can manage your files, and buy media, and play it anywhere you want (in the subway, airplane or TV set) and... make calls and surf the web... all in a very unified system, you've won the lotto. This is the Apple success over Sony or even Microsoft. Sony have the DAP, the phones, the PC, the TV Set, the distribution channels and the Media, but nothing of that works together. There is not a just a matter of build an iPod Killer.

Again, nothing is perfect, nor my english,

i'll follow this topic with great interest!

[pata2001]

One final thought: Sony's really big trouble is not iPod, is iTunes, and the whole sales structure involved. If you have a DAP, fully integrated with a efficient sales scheme, a software where you can manage your files, and buy media, and play it anywhere you want (in the subway, airplane or TV set) and... make calls and surf the web... all in a very unified system, you've won the lotto. This is the Apple success over Sony or even Microsoft. Sony have the DAP, the phones, the PC, the TV Set, the distribution channels and the Media, but nothing of that works together. There is not a just a matter of build an iPod Killer.

Yup. Even Steve Jobs said it at the D5 conference, but Sony just doesn't get it.

[Zizone_]

Obviously sony is not making any cd player or md now,

who cares about SQ, plus SQ is so subjective, people just want to have a ipod instead of walkman

Well, there is new CD walkman: D-NE20 and D-NE830.

Also, sound quality may be subjective, but those who have used various DAPs tend to prefer Sony's SQ; this fact cannot be ignored considering this is one factor that holds current user base.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Zizone

[juli_]

Also, sound quality may be subjective, but those who have used various DAPs tend to prefer Sony's SQ;

Yes, this is true. Also, you never hear any criticism about the Sony sound (even from non-Sony users). About 70% of my friends own various iPods, and definitely put SQ second behind user-friendly software, fast transfers, an abundance of accessories etc etc, and the remaining 30% of us have various Sony models and put SQ above everything else. I'd tried various daps before and had got rid of them as I'd never been satisfied with the sound, but once I had a Sony, my search for the perfect sound was over

[RoGeR-atrac]

I beg to differ.... ipods interface is way to childish for me and unless I'm a female who's an idiot with tech, I'd stay far away from them. Plus, they sound crap to me.

[Shinji Ikeda]

The iPod is a safe choice for those that can do research on the various media players on the market. Seeing an abundance of accessories how influences people into believing that the above mentioned product is the absolute best. If consumers actually did some research then the popularity of the iPod would not be as dramatic as it is.

Apples marketing on the iPod is simple, 'Spend more time enjoying your music'. The funny thing is that it was Apples move to allow iPods to work with Windows PCs that cause the popularity of the iPod to explode.

The iPod has several brain cramps in its design, like all DAPs, but this is absolutely ignored. The 100 million iPods sold have created a group of people who will absolutely defend the iPod and ignore its worts.

We all make compromises when making a purchase.