kgallen

Sorry it is just "blather". Thinking out loud really and sharing the thoughts. All the better if it's "educational" or useful! The Sony decks pretty much display the disc name/track name from the moment you turn them on if they already have the disc inside, they know if it's been ejected (TOC cloning aside) so don't bother spinning up the disc to get information they already have. It means playback can start much quicker as they already have the TOC/linked lists in memory so know where to put the laser to get at any requested track. Smart people did this stuff and with the demise of such equipment I fear the world is losing some of the skills of smart product design... In practical terms probably not, but like any component there is manufacturing variability and they can fail. Although I've bought "spares" (my MDS-E10 saga is well documented!) I've not needed to replace it in any of my ummm 12-13 decks, including my MDS-JE520 I've had from new (1998, maybe 1999) even though that machine did spend some years in the loft (unfavourable temperature swings for any equipment!). As you'd expect from Sony, it's a top quality Panasonic cell. A failed cell would probably exhibit as not retaining any machine settings or the data we discuss above. The machine is likely to operate normally when it's powered on (unless the battery failed with a low impedance short, but I don't know whether that is a viable failure mode for such things, probably not. For now, my assumptions are that the lens is clean (enough), the laser and detector block are fine, the spindle motor runs and the servo can track, so we hopefully don't have a major problem. One easy test for now would be the "unplug it for a few minutes" test. I'm not overly familiar with your machine but I suspect it's like my MDS-JE machines in that the on/off power button is "soft" in that it is handled by the machine's microprocessor rather than being a traditional clunky power switch that breaks the mains supply. This means that when plugged in, the machine has some "always on" circuity and is "woken up" by pressing the "power" button. It will be a "soft" button if you can have a disc in the machine with a dirty TOC, and pressing the power button will cause the TOC to be written before the machine "goes to sleep". Similarly on my MDS-JE machines, I can press the Eject button and the machine will eject the disc without "powering on" the machine first (and those smart engineers even put the machine back to sleep once the disc has been ejected).

Initially the title data is still in RAM from when the disc read ok the day before (there is a small lithium backup cell - when you take the lid off, a 15-20mm disc with purple/pink plastic around it). Subsequently ejecting a reinserting the disc, the RAM is cleared and the disc is read to retrieve this title data. Interesting that prior to the eject you could "play" for 10secs (I assume no C13 error appeared) which would suggest the deck "knew all about the disc" from the data already in RAM but was somehow unable to retrieve any ATRAC data from the main data section of the disc...

I think it's quite a neat idea! The brush has to be small so that the laser can keep aligned to the ADIP (address in pre-groove) that is used by the machine to keep track of where the laser is on the disc. When the brush passes the lens, there will be a burst of errors (no readable disc information) and a very brief machine panic of "I'm lost" before the brush passes and the laser can find the ADIP again. It probably looks to the machine like a "shock event" which of course it's designed to handle and one of the beautiful things about Minidisc (that CD players never really got working well due to the 1:1 read/output datarate of CDs versus the 5:1 of MD). I bet you don't even hear a gap in the music, due to the 10sec of RAM buffering of ATRAC data. Absolutely wonderful technology in these things! Given you can use this disc to remove "everyday light dust" from the lens without needing to open the machine (which your everyday user would be well advised against!) it should work ok. However in this case we're looking for another reason. If you're inside the machine, then a wipe of the lens with some isopropyl-alchohol on a swab won't hurt but I feel we might end up elsewhere with this one. Let's hope it's no worst than a ribbon cable reseat...

That cleaning disc is crazy - is that tiny speck the brush? How funny is that they mounted a tiny brush in the middle of an otherwise "normal" playable disc - and that you play some music, the music pauses whilst the laser lens gets a brush-up, then the music/I've finished speech starts up again!

Interesting... (Sorry if you already know this) Pressed discs use "pits and lands" the same way as a CD. These discs are "high reflectivity" regarding the detection mechanism used to extract the data. Recordable MO discs use the Kerr effect of rotation of the (laser) light polarisation due to magnetic field and are "low reflectivity" in the detection mechanism. The reflectivity type is coded with a dimple on the disc case, but also in the lead-in data that the machine gets when it first reads the disc. This lead-in data is put there when the disc is manufactured (CD and MO type) and is not changeable on MO discs (it is in pits and lands format, but "low reflectivity" - see Primer page 34). I'm not aware the read laser emit power is different for each of the disc types, but I could be wrong, I'd have to re-read the MD technical primer [*] on minidisc.org to refresh my understanding. ETA looks like both CD and MO discs use the same laser read power (~0.5mW, Primer $6.3 p40). So it's interesting you see a difference between your MO and (possible) CD "cleaning" disc. Have you any other CD discs you can try? According to the Primer doc, p39, the same detector elements (I and J) are used for detecting both pit and MO signals, so it wouldn't seem there is a fault with the detection optics/electronics. (But as ever we should look at simple explanations first, rather than some catastrophic component failure on an otherwise known-good machine!) However I'm not sure what these "lens cleaning" discs look like. You say it's a playable disc, rather than one with "some fluffy stuff" on it! Whilst you have the lid off, try the ribbon cable remove-and-reseat that seems to have recovered some of our machines from C13! Good to hear from you now SIF is back online! Kevin [*] http://minidisc.org/manuals/minidisc_training.pdf

All those referenced articles on the Forum are fantastic. If you want a bit more background, this Instructables article is quite accessible: https://www.instructables.com/id/Electret-Microphone-Preamplifier/#step2 (Note the above is a single channel design. The Forum threads are covering a stereo (two channel) design.)

Just to loop back on this: If you need the internal ribbon cables, they might be a standard part. See my post linked here. I've not listed the MDS-JE520 or MDS-JE530 on that post, but I have those machines and if anyone needs to know then I could open up and have a measure and add to the "database" (shame we can't collect all this data in one centralised place - mods?).

Just to round this off, I received all of the cables from the eBay seller quoted above and they are pretty much exact to those in the machines. So these are more of an "off the shelf" part than I realised! I also got some longer 7P versions for use with the IOP measurement connector on the MDM-7 drives. Note: For MDM-5 drives, it's a JST SH1.25 pin connector not a ribbon cable, see my post here:

Ditto! Just Replying (gently!) to check it's working from my side...

To add to what Stephen is saying regards SP and MDLP: - Your MDS-JE520, MDS-JE530, MZ-R37 machines only support SP (standard play) - they pre-date (only just for the 530) around 2000 when MDLP (minidisc long play) was introduced [*]. - Your MZ-N707 will support SP plus the two MDLP modes LP2 and LP4. So if you record a disc on the N707, you need to use SP mode (it will be in the menu somewhere) if you want to play that recording on any of your other machines. As Stephen says, if you record in LP2 or LP4 on your N707, those tracks will play back silent (by design) on the other machines - you may see "LP:" on their display. A disc can have any arbitrary mixture of SP, LP2 and LP4 tracks on it. The whole disc doesn't need to be the same mode (although in practical terms they usually are!) - but those LP2/LP4 tracks will play back silent on a non-MDLP machine and the track timer will increment as usual as the track progresses. All tracks should play back fine on your N707 and the machine will automatically recognise the mode (SP/LP2/LP4) of the track and configure itself accordingly. I hope this is making some sense! Kevin [*] They may pre-date MDLP (just), but in my opinion the 520 and 530 are still fine machines. My 520 probably gets the most use of all of my MD machines (and I have a lot!) - my "baby" from new in 1998/99.

That's ok, it may well have a Sony chipset in it! (I mention my Tascam MDs on occasion, they have Sony chipsets in them so I think we can sneak them past Stephen :-) ) Sorry I can't help with your battery problem, which is what you came for!

There is a service manual available but there is no manual adjustment to be done. There is a complex electronics-based servo mechanism built into the drive that aligns the laser to the tracks automatically. This is similar to a CD player which largely uses the same tracking mechanism. See minidisc.org for the SM and the Minidisc technology tutorial: MDS-JE520 page with Service Manual Minidisc technology tutorial Stephen talks about different reflectivities. But as far as I know this is only a difference between the high-reflectivity prerecorded (stamped) discs which are pretty much like CDs physically (pits and lands) and the recordable (magneto-optical) discs which are low-reflectivity. With the MO discs, the Kerr effect (light polarisation affected by magnetic polarisation) is used to determine data content. You don’t need to know or care about any of this, the deck works it out automatically.

My JE520 (1998) is perfectly happy with 80 minute discs. The 80 minute discs use a slightly finer pitch of the tracks (see this FAQ). I'm not aware they are incompatible with any MD machine but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if the very earliest machines (early 1990's) couldn't use them. At the beginning of MD there were 60 minute and 74 minute discs. I'm not sure I understand your title though - what do you mean by format? The blank discs don't have a format as such, however you can record in SP, LP2 or LP4 on either. As BearBoy suggests, discs with an MDLP recording (LP2, LP4) will play as silent on your JE520 which doesn't support MDLP. Kevin Ooops maybe I dived in and got a bit technical, I can see BearBoy has been giving you a better intro on the other thread...

The easiest approach is to try and get another machine with an MDM-5A drive. This would be MDS-JE520, MDS-JB920, MDS-S40. However if I got a 520 or 920, I'd probably prefer to use that over the 330 as they are higher-range models with more features. But if you get a cosmetically poor or broken one one for a decent price then you can use it as a donor deck for the drive, or the motor if the drive is (really) shot. If you really just want the motor then pretty much any Sony deck will probably have the motor you want (you don't specify if it's the spindle, tracking or load motor you need). Kevin

Do you mean this type? In cases: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-MiniDisc-tray-Holds-40-discs-in-cases-storage-holder-stand-rack-box/202653841906 No cases: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-MiniDisc-tray-Holds-60-discs-not-in-cases-storage-holder-stand-rack-box/202625974519 Let us know how you get on!

Hiya. Yes, I'm sure this is was not designed as an MD-specific case, even though it's sold as one! More a generic case with some dividers you can put in approximately the right place. Probably started off as a case for "music cassettes" as the model is MC-20/SW. Those dividers can move into any of the grooves you can see, although the case does arrive with them in this position, and in an outer box printed "minidisc case". To answer your specific question, yes there is a gap and yes if you shake the case they do move around a bit. However the lid is lined with bumpy foam that does clamp down quite well onto the discs. At least in my case with them in the slip cases. As you've already determined from the picture, the centre column is a closer fit. Probably a 4mm gap in the centre column and 8mm gap in the two outside columns. More of a gap if you had the discs alone and probably overly rattly! As you've probably also twigged, this case is described as being 80 MD capacity. So how do you get 80 MDs in 3 columns? Surely 78 or 81 capacity! :-D I have a couple of those "wire-frame" type racks that "display" the MDs, however mine is probably more of a "functional collection" than a "display" collection, and this box has been a good way, in this example at least, to collect my blank stock together in one place. I have a very large number of MDs in my desk at work. Many are stacked loose, but I do have a few of those 10-capacity acrylic flip-top cases - Maxell brand maybe? I've just ordered two more of these cases from CPC to accommodate my ever expanding current and probably future disc stock! Seems the "MC" is probably Monacor. Here is their page on the product: https://www.monacor.com/products/components/transport-and-storage/racks-and-cases/mc-20-sw/

In case (!) anyone is interested, CPC (UK) have the 80-capacity aluminium minidisc cases back in stock. I bought their "last one" a couple of months back and assumed that would be the last ever. However today they have 5 in stock (I looked because with my latest batch of purchases I'm needing some more storage...): https://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/mc-20-sw/minidisc-case-80mds/dp/AV02695 It's a case you'll find on eBay in some places, but they tend to want silly prices (it's a "collectable", see). I'll photo my existing one in a moment, then you can see how well/badly they fit for your own purposes. Here we go. 75 in cases. Presumably 80 not in cases!

I’m sure you’re aware - some portables are play-only so be sure to confirm the model you’re looking at is record too! Good luck, let us know how you get on. Kevin

This comparison was shared the other day on the ATRAC R/S thread. It gives you some technical comparison. Others will have to give you a more subjective judgement on the machine. I suspect one of the main issues with this machine is the gumstick battery, rather than AA battery. I'm not sure if the type used by this machine is the commonly available type, or the one that is priced like gold. If the latter, this might be the reason they are selling for less money. http://minidisc.org/sony_mzr97500_comparison.html I have an R700 and like it very much (I've had it since about 2001). In my view, recording/editing on a portable device is always going to be more clumsy than on a deck because of the size of the user interface. But many are quite happy with this. MZ-N707 looks to me to be one of the best. Maybe these are high priced! MZ-N505 have a modern ATRAC spec, but are very much a cost-reduced model. I do have one and it's not the highest build quality - against the generally high watermark for Sony products of this type. Also for the savvy is some secret sauce to buy a cheaper player then enable features from higher up the range: http://www.minidisc.org/mzr700_to_mzr900.html Hope that helps a little!

This guy seems to have a fair selection at the moment at ok prices: https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Freepost-GB-Stores/Mini-Discs-Cleaners/_i.html?_storecat=3293531018

Ooops, I might just have bought some of them, sorry! (Buy Now not Bid).

There's a whole pile of them with different brand discs! :-D

I keep going back and looking at those new-stock Sony packs of 10/25/50/+ on eBay. I can’t seem to make the cost work for me. The base price is not overly attractive and there is shipping, likely UK VAT and courier charges at GBP8-20. If you bought a decent batch then you would probably hit the customs duty threshold. It all ends up making the single disc price far more than I can pick up bits and bobs new old-stock from your typical eBay punter. Using a jp account is interesting, but then do you not need an intermediary company to facilitate the logistics (I watched Techmoan’s Japan import video)? Maybe not because it’s Amazon rather than eBay? Keep it coming guys! The minidisc world is hotting up so we’re gonna need to widen our pool of supplies! For Pete’s sake I spent time last night watching a new YouTube guy unwrapping his latest delivery of blank minidiscs and comparing them side by side. This is getting out of hand!!! He did actually give a nod over to this ole forum (via minidisc.org) saying it was very active! You betcha!!!

I know our usual source of blank minidiscs is typically eBay, but I just realised that BandCDs must go through a heck of a lot of MDs so might sell new blanks to the general public. I had a browse and ended up at their sister site "Retro Style Media" and digging down they do indeed sell new/wrapped blank minidiscs. And lots of makes and styles too, not just the bulk-packed Sony ones that are current new new-stock from Japan. They have Sony, TDK, Maxell, Sharp, Memorex and JVC plus some other specials. Price is umm-ok-ish ranging from just over GBP5.00 (on eBay I tend to look for deals around the GBP2.80-3.50 mark as of April/2020). Delivery is a bit steep at GBP7.95+VAT however is free in the UK for purchases over GBP60, so if you bought say 15 MDs, you'd be in for free delivery. Maybe they have a particular style you like to have in your collection. They do ship international, but I'm not sure you'd like the look of their delivery charges. Here is their site: RetroStyleMedia I have no connection to this company, I'm not out to explicitly advertise or promote them, just constantly on the lookout for where we might find our MD stuff. Maybe this will be of use to some fellow users/collectors. Mods, feel free to delete this post if you deem it inappropriate advertising!

You had me worried there (well not worried, but you know...) I dug out the Service Manuals for the R700 and the R909. They both use the CXD2671 (slightly different chip package) DSP/controller, so despite what that table says they have the same DSP chip. If I remember correctly (or I'm confusing topics), Type R divides the frequency spectrum to 4 bands versus the 3 bands of ATRAC1 4.5, so it goes about its whole job in a different way. It's likely in my view that Type R is a complete replacement - it's not like it's a 4.5 with a clever bit bolted on the end you could disable (say for product differentiation or power reasons). The whole chop-up, analysis and encoding process is a function of the number of bands. I think if you've got an encoder that is Type R you've got that in total instead of an earlier generation ATRAC1 4.5 encoder. We're banished from the office at the moment where my MZ-R700 sits. When I get back in there I'll have a look to see what it says on the front. I might have a look on "the Bay" [*] to see if there are any photos that tell a story [**]. Too much fun we're having these few weeks on this forum, chaps. It's delightful to see the interest and contributions! [*] (c) sfbp from whom I've cribbed this representation mercilessly! [**] Agreed - the MZ-R909 does indeed boast Type R on the case whereas the MZ-R700 is decidedly mute on the topic. Wha'doiknow...!