Sparky191

Thats probably the best option in my opinion.

What? ATRAC is a lossy Codec as is MP3. They should sound equally good if encoded properly. Both are lossy and neither is HiFi. Though 99% of people won't be able to tell the difference from a good ATRAC/MP3 file from the original CD even with the right amp/headphones and enviroment. Thats ignoring ATRAC lossless which you can't put on a HiMD or indeed any portable anyway so doesn't count. There are many lossless file formats and until recently ATRAC wasn't one of them. It sounds good, and its enjoyable. But don't kid yourself its HiFi. It isn't.

Has it changed in 3.4? Because there is a bug in SonicStage 3.3 where the lossless version isn't used and it uses the 352k to transcode to 256k. Which is obviously worse then a straight rip from straight to 256k. This bug was talked about before on these forums. It renders the ATRAC lossless option pointless really. Unless you only listen to it on your PC and never transfer it. CD >>> 256K best quality 352k >>> 256K = transcoded worse Lossless 352k >>> 256K = the same as above (due to bug) Maybe its changed in 3.4?

You can't record in 352kps on a MD unit. Only in the HiLP (64kps) HiSP(356kps) and PCM(Wav). You can only get 352kps by converting from WAV in SonicStage. So obviously you can record in PCM then convert it to 352kps on the PC.

I take it you've never heard a HiFi then?

This is old ground. Scroll down and look at the freq analysis. http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=10304

From my reading yes its technically possible. However the HiMD "unit" would not be able to use the other MD disks. Perhaps my understanding of the technology is flawed though. See for yourselves http://www.audiotstation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21288 http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7375&st=0 http://www.minidisc.org/keep/sony_dwdd_mddata2.pdf

Makes all the difference. Personally I can't stand low bit rates ATRAC or MP3. So maybe I'm biased...

How did you create the MP3's?

Well thats a good example. You reckon 64kps ATRAC (HiLP) is ok but 128kps MP3 isn't. But then you say you can't hear much difference between 64kps (HiLP) and 256kps (HiSP). The different between 64kps HiLP vs 128kps MP3 should be a lot less and the difference between HiLP and HiSP should be more. Basically theres something not right with that. If HIMD couldn't play back MP3's natively then it would have to trancode/convert the MP3 file to ATRAC to transfer it. The transfer times simply do not reflect this. So the assumption therefore is that they files are not being trancoded and therefore it IS native playback. This is all a pretty pointless though. Since if you can't hear the difference you'll use MP3's regardless. If you can hear the difference you'll use ATRAC on HiMD and MP3 on another devices. The fact that 1st gen HIMD couldn't play MP3's meant most of the market with MP3 collections has moved to other devices which could play them. I don't think theres many left to care at this point. People do it in different ways. I use an external USB HD as the main library. I copy from that onto what ever device I want to use. CD's are ripped into this library then they go back on the shelf for use with the HiFi. Once ripped the CD's are effectively my backup. I don't use MD's as my main portable. I use a MP3 player. My MD's are only used for recording, once thats transferred to the library I reuse the MD. The Library on the HD is backed up to another HD (along with all my other PC data) on a regular basis. If I used the HiMD as my main portable, I think I'd still use the HD as my main library.

What? The whole point of feature of the 2nd is that it IS native MP3 playback.Whats effecting the sound is that Sony have tweaked the firmware to that the EQ is different for MP3's vs ATRAC files. Why? So that people who don't realise this will say ATRAC is better than MP3. There simply is no other reason to do this. Most people don't even realise (or can't hear) the different in SQ between low and high bitrate file, in either ATRAC or MP3. So basically Sony are treating the consumer as a moron, by making this tweak. They assumed the consumer would be too dumb to realise what they were doing. This topic has been discussed at length before in these forums. At the end of the day theres no reason for Sony to muck about with the MP3 file as its transferred (not converted or transcoded). It just annoys the consumer.

"not very good at playing mp3" would indicate a query re: SQ to me?

I think you can make a CD from them in iTunes and them reimport them however you wish. Obviously if you can do it without making a CD as above that better. But I thought I'd mention it.

I'm confused Tom. Sony made the HiMD. So how is that not Sony "weirdness"?

When I read the details of the technology that allows HiMD its seemed to suggested that 2GB is technically possible but a 2GB HiMD couldn't be made backward compatible with MD disks, whereas 1GB could. So they went with 1GB. I could be misunderstanding it though.

What earphones are you using to decide all this?

Better is subjective. You might prefer the sound of one method someone else the other method. Digitially they should in theory be the same, bit for bit. However most electronic signals are effected by the electronics they pass through. So for example the same MD will sound differently on different MD players.

A discussion about MP3 vs ATRAC sound quality is pointless unless you give details of the encoder used, the settings and the bitrates you used. If you can do a blind listening test ABX between MP3 and ATRAC of comparitive bitrates and encodings and get over 80% correct over a large sample of tests then you can notice a difference. Otherwise its not a valid test, and is probably just a placebo effect. The mind plays funny tricks.

I don't have a 2nd gen. But some people reported that they could use the EQ to correct the problem.

Yeah. Theres still a few units floating around here and there but overall the formats gone. Peats still have them as to one or two Sony stores in Dublin. I notice Argos now have dropped all the 1gen units and only carry the 2nd gen 710. The odd part was they never dropped in price anywhere. http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/shop/db.cgi?v...=5&path=10x4180

Because sony have designed it to make MP3's sound worse.

I like ATRAC on MD I think it sounds great. In my own blind listening tests between high bitrates ATRACs or LAME MP3's I'm not hearing any significant differences between the encodings, in terms of errors or artifacts. I do notice more of a difference of voicing, and colouring to the sound. But I think this is mainly due to physical device rather than encoding (ATRAC/MP3) I use. So simply for ease of use I've tended to stick to high bitrate MP3's CBR because they the most compatible across all the devices I've owned. If I want to use my HiMD as a player, I'll rip the track from the CD in ATRAC. I don't do transcoding. If my HiMD was my only player I might do it differently. I do like the 352kps though. I definately use it in preferance over HiSP for my favorite CD's and Acoustic and Classical Albums.

I thought it similarly better aswell. Any thoughts about 352kps vs MP3 320kps Lame High Quality? Or even 256kps ATRAC vs 320Kps Lame HQ.

A vaio's no different to any other computer. So there should be no problem. 3.2 and 3.3 both work fine on my Sony Laptop.

Yes but you said listen to music you don't like....