Christopher Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Bagged n' tagged from here.Here's another handy rerun in ExWeb current special series on Everest tech. Previously this week we have covered sat phones, radios, and power. Today, the latest on Everest music. And don't forget that you'll find these stories and lots more on HumanEdgeTech.com. Click the boring sounding "tech guide" in the menu and watch a world of info unfold!Rocking out on EverestThere isn’t anything quite like taking off in an old stripped out Russian helicopter with AC/DC blaring in your headphones. Or even chilling out in high camp with Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald after a long, hard day of climbing.In the mountains these days you see more and more climbers with headphone wires coming out from underneath their wool caps. Music is a big help, whether the tunes are simply complementing your situation, providing a real life soundtrack, helping you relax, or getting you amped.Lots of choicesThere are a lot of choices out there for listening to music, but you have to remember that at altitude humans aren’t the only ones that start to act a bit weird. The device that is hot right now is Apple’s Ipod. These personal MP3 players, albeit expensive, can hold anywhere from 5 to 40 gigabytes of music – that’s 10,000 songs.It’s biggest strength is it’s biggest weaknessThe problem is in Ipod’s apparent strength – storage. The music is stored on a hard drive. Climbers on both sides of Everest, both this year and last year reported failures as low as the trek into BC. We know of one particular first generation 10 gig Ipod that did make it as high as ABC on the North side, about 21,000 ft, before it started malfunctioning. Some crash and lose all the music permanently, while others start to work again at lower altitudes. Technically the Ipod’s operating altitude has a 10,000 ft ceiling.What’s the problem? Well, we did some digging around and have found a logical reason. The hard drive isn’t sealed; it has a device that allows pressure inside the drive to equalize with the pressure outside. Data is stored on disc and is read by a head that floats a small distance from the disc on a cushion of air. Unlike a tape, there is no contact. At altitude, the air thins out and there simply aren’t enough molecules to support the head, making it physically crash onto the hard drive. In computing terms this is referred to as a, “head crash.”Those people in Silicon Valley wear those funny white suits for a reasonIt seems hard to believe that the difference in pressure can have such an impact, however, to better understand the exact tolerances we’re dealing with, it’s important to realize that a piece of dust has the ability to crash a hard drive and destroy it.If this happens once or twice to an Ipod, the drive should still be in decent shape, enough for it to resume operation at a lower altitude. If you keep pressing play, trying to run the device and scratching your head repeatedly, it might permanently damage the Ipod.The alternativesSo, what are the alternatives? Regular old walkmans playing tapes work well, but if the battery gets to cold, it’ll die or the tape will start to play veeeerrrrrry slooooowly. One tape only holds maybe two hours of music, and the ancient system is rather large with lots of moving parts to break.Solid-state Mp3 players with changeable flash cardsSolid-state Mp3 players that have no moving parts work great. With flash cards holding one or two gigs, you can store quite a bit of music. Though not tested, microdrive flash cards might have the same problem as Ipods. A flash card that can hold a gig is about $200 to $300. In contrast a 15 gig Ipod is only $300.The MinidiscMinidisc players are also another great alternative. The relatively small cd-like disks have a protective covering so they can be tossed around, the device itself is small, and one minidisk can hold over an hour of music (newer systems tout up to 320 minutes of music), and a 5 pack of discs will run you about 10 bucks. The only pain is that you have to record the music onto a Minidisc yourself – there really aren’t too many titles available to buy.The old CD playerFinally you’ve got the tried and true CD Player that can play burned Mp3’s. This is probably the most affordable solution with one 700 MB disc costing less than a dollar each. Leave your computer in Base Camp and burn what you need, when you need it. If a CD gets too scratched, throw it away and burn another one. The portable CD players that run Mp3 discs only cost $50 or $60 – it’s so cheap you can afford to bring a backup.So, before you plan to rock out on the mountain, make sure you come correct. Figure out which device fits into your price range, and whose features match up with what your needs are.Head crashes are not only a problem for Ipods at altitude, but also in computers as well. Depending upon the specific hard drive used, some can tolerate higher altitudes better than others. Too bad they don't cite any MD examples all the way up there on Everest. It would be interesting to see what high altitudes [in this sense] could do to such a device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeriyn Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Give me a break. What normal user is going to climb Everest? Sheesh. These people are going into a hostile environment; I won't even play sports with my iPod, much less take it up a damn mountain.But this is another example of just how insanely durable flash-based DAPs really are. I'd love to see a >4GB flash player. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Give me a break. What normal user is going to climb Everest? Sheesh. These people are going into a hostile environment; I won't even play sports with my iPod, much less take it up a damn mountain.But this is another example of just how insanely durable flash-based DAPs really are. I'd love to see a >4GB flash player. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.←Give you a break? My friend's brother has been travelling the world with his iPod. That is, until he went somewhere higher than 5000 feet. Not climbing a mountain, just a Really High Place. His iPod's hard drive head crashed and now he doesn't have any more tunes. Think of all the people that live in Really High Places. Now they have to rely on some antiquitated.. MiniDisc? I live at sea level. I will enjoy my next iPod if that's whats cool in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony_man Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 i wouldn't, go minidiscs!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Eddie Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Just another reason why minidisc is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 (edited) This is a very interesting article. I will definitely need to reconsider taking my VAIO Pocket to high elevation areas.Give me a break. What normal user is going to climb Everest? Sheesh. These people are going into a hostile environment; I won't even play sports with my iPod, much less take it up a damn mountain.←You will be surprised by the demographics of iPod users in extreme sports. Edited February 13, 2005 by Ishiyoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tires Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 MD is truly better than ANY HD DAP in extreme conditions, no need to single one out regardless of it's popularity. That's not the best reason to take a MDR with you up there though. Why not take an MD and some blanks up with you and keep an audio log?Let's tout all of MDs strengths when comparing it to an iPod or any other playback device. Where MD lacks in some playback features (not gapless ) it shines in recording capabilities that most MP3 playback devices can't match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumz Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 That's interesting to know since I have 3 DAPs that use hard drives. Though the iPod being the most popular, it will also be the one that gets called on such issues, even if it's not the only one with the problem [broken record] Still waiting for an Auvi Hi-MD to bring me back to the format [/broken record] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeriyn Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 I'd like to reiterate that the average iPod user is a moron, and that I'm not the average iPod user. Those crappy white earbuds are nowhere to be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony_man Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 haha i left mine in the car and even my parents just stepped on them and never picked'em up! they even have upgrades for the little white wonders. there is an attachment that goes onto the front of the drivers' grill, which than adds silicone plugs that try to imitate those of the sony EX's or Sure's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skmetal07 Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 maybe u should try selling them on ebay? im sure someone will want a pair *snicker* *snicker* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hmm, iPod's ceiling is 10 000 feet?That's just 3300 meters. Most passenger airplanes have their internal air pressure set to the equivalent of the altitude of 3000 meters when going above 3000 meters. It is done to reduce the stress on the fuselage and thus extendingthe lifetime of the aircraft.In other words, using your iPod during flight means running it close to the limit of the specifications, making it more susceptible to damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeriyn Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hmm, iPod's ceiling is 10 000 feet?←There's no mention of what generation of iPods this guy was talking about. Both my iPod Mini and my mother's 4G iPod 20GB have been in Northern California with elevations close to 5,000 feet, with no ill effects.I think that the newer Toshiba drives are a little different than the ones in the 1G and 2G iPods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 There is mention of what generation iPod they are speaking of, at least in one example. RTFA, Cori. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeriyn Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Uh-huh. Figures. First generation, I doubt the newer ones suffer from this issue considering how I'm sure there's people living in Denver, Colorado and other high-elevation places who own iPods and I'm sure they don't all crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony_man Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 shhhhh dont tell, but id love for my ipod to die!! im just waiting counting down its so short life span . must get something else that doesnt require me to buy or invest more into than i really should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1980 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Why not sell it and get some money out of it?And then get the super expensive DH10P lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhangraman Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) Most hard disks have a maximum rated attitude of somewhere around 10,000ft. Having said that, a colleague was enjoying my iPod (3G) without problems onboard a helicopter flying over 10,000ft. Edited February 19, 2005 by bhangraman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Was that particular helicopter's cabin pressurized? Passenger airplanes, normally, wouldn't be a problem since its cabin is fully pressurized, so you don't see laptops, iPods, and other things falling dead (not to mention it needs pressurizing since it flies around 30,000ft). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhangraman Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Was that particular helicopter's cabin pressurized? Passenger airplanes, normally, wouldn't be a problem since its cabin is fully pressurized, so you don't see laptops, iPods, and other things falling dead (not to mention it needs pressurizing since it flies around 30,000ft).←The doors were open. I leave the conclusion and the reason I made the post up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony_man Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Why not sell it and get some money out of it?And then get the super expensive DH10P lol.←well, considering the fact that no matter how much care you put into an ipod, you will always find that one scratch that later will turn into another, than another, than another. so to sum it up, its in no condition to sell .but i really love those new MD's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NRen2k5 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) Nice article, but they're totally off about the price of a pack of five minidiscs. It's not ten bucks, it's more like twenty to twenty-five. Edited February 19, 2005 by NRen2k5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NRen2k5 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I'd like to reiterate that the average iPod user is a moron, and that I'm not the average iPod user. Those crappy white earbuds are nowhere to be found. ←I'm wondering just how crappy they are... ? Are they any better or worse than the garbage that's packed with minidisc recorders?Are they any better or worse than average Sony earbuds... MDR-818LP, let's say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Nice article, but they're totally off about the price of a pack of five minidiscs. It's not ten bucks, it's more like twenty to twenty-five.←here is australia you can buy a 5 pack of twinkles, sony colour, standard 80 mins for au$8-14. himds are about au$4.80. you guys are getting boned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhangraman Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 I'm wondering just how crappy they are... ? Are they any better or worse than the garbage that's packed with minidisc recorders?Are they any better or worse than average Sony earbuds... MDR-818LP, let's say?←They have less sonic 'glare', are much less scratchy and have a warmer sound. I think the thing that fazes a lot of potential users is the size of the buds, and it doesn't fit well in some ear 'bowls'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoir Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Mainly, the iPod just provides a listening experience which is frankly too "low end"(!) for a seasoned MD user like myself and everyone else here... Sure, you can fits gazillions of albums on an iPod, as long as you sacrifice what's really important - sound quality and the feeling that you're giving one album your complete undivided attention! What's more, the MD just has this wonderful DIY ethic, the ability to record audio on the go, trading of MDs, finding old MD compilations you've made... I could go on. For me, the iPod symbolises (and this isn't true of everyone I must stress) the need for people who know minus-zip about real music to jump on the trend bandwagon. I mean really... how many albums do these people actually have on these things? 5 identical RnB compilations??The iPod is convenient and is a design masterpiece though I must concede, and if someone offered me one, I probably wouldn't say no! (I might just sell it though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhangraman Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) Mainly, the iPod just provides a listening experience which is frankly too "low end"(!) for a seasoned MD user like myself and everyone else here... Sure, you can fits gazillions of albums on an iPod, as long as you sacrifice what's really important - sound quality and the feeling that you're giving one album your complete undivided attention! What's more, the MD just has this wonderful DIY ethic, the ability to record audio on the go, trading of MDs, finding old MD compilations you've made... I could go on. For me, the iPod symbolises (and this isn't true of everyone I must stress) the need for people who know minus-zip about real music to jump on the trend bandwagon. I mean really... how many albums do these people actually have on these things? 5 identical RnB compilations??The iPod is convenient and is a design masterpiece though I must concede, and if someone offered me one, I probably wouldn't say no! (I might just sell it though)←The sound quality on the iPod is noticeably better than the MZ-NH1 when compared Lossless against OMG PCM. (and of course, Lossless is taking up half the space of OMG PCM) There are a few headphone issuses, but once again if you're serious about sound they're easy to overcome. I have 80Gb of MP3's... and I haven't yet finished ripping the rest of my CD collection. Edited February 23, 2005 by bhangraman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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