Upgrade Nh900 Nh?00 To Mp3 Playback

[pho1967]

Shortly before Christmas i got the NH900, and im very satisfied with to sound quality.

But now im reading that the new ones can playback MP3's.

Will it be/Is it possible thru a firmware upgrade to make the NH?00 playback MP3's?

Or did i just waste 379 Euros???

If its not possible to upgrade, why doesnt sony make like a buy back auction thing.

Sony gets my "old" NH900 plus some of my money (like a 100€) and i get the new rh910!

Cheers

Per

[SlowMo]

Hi,

well, to be honest, i don´t think that there will be firmware upgrades for first gen units anytime soon.

-but of course you did not waste your money, nh900 is still a great piece of hardware, and when it comes to backward compatibility, it´s even superior to 2nd gen.

is native mp3 playback really that important to you ?

you said you were satisfied with the sound quality so far, so why bother ?

[dex Otaku]

To my knowledge Sony has no plans to release firmware updates for the 1st-gen units.

I would like to ask, though: if you're very satisfied with its sound quality as is, then why would the inclusion of mp3 support on 2nd gen suddenly make your purchase a waste?

[pho1967]

Thanks for the replies,

Yeah, good question, why would i bother a "downgrade" to mp3 from the superior sound quality of Atrac...

File handling goes over sound quality in my case.

I guess, i prefer the easy handling of mp3 files over the complicated drm thing with SonicStage.

My case: i have two computers (laptop and stand-alone pc). On my pc i ripped a cd to the pc and transferred onto hd-md. There is no way i can download it again to my laptop because of drm. But sonys solution to that problem is that i can listen to my hd-md over usb. I think this is a bad solution and it makes handling of files between more computers a pain (well impossible). My guess is that (but i dont know) mp3 files can be copied to and from hd-md (in the rh910 unit) without drm (tell me if im wrong). And thats what i like - sound quality is second priority.

If i had the atrac file handling without drm, or some other kind of drm between two computers (like a registred user account with a certificate what-ever) i would say that i have not wasted my money on the nh900.

I dont know if i made myself clear.

Cheers

Per

Edited March 18, 2005 by pho1967

[Valder]

To my knowledge Sony has no plans to release firmware updates for the 1st-gen units.

Yeah I doubt that would happen. The 900 is a great sounding unit. I bought a like new one about two weeks ago for $180 USD knowing that the new units are not far away. Now I'm not sure I need a 2nd Gen, But I know I want a Orange RH10!

Val

[Valder]

My guess is that (but i dont know) mp3 files can be copied to and from hd-md (in the rh910 unit) without drm (tell me if im wrong).

I thought that there was discussions that there would be a DRM wrapping of the MP3 files.

Valder

Edited March 18, 2005 by Valder

[deafplayer]

if yorue concerned about sound quality.... theres also the issue converting from one lossy comrpession format to another

unless you kept all the CDs you purchased even after you ripped them to MP3... then you have no problem, cus you could rip them again

me, i threw them all out

.....yeah

while im posting, i'll repeat again what we all know: sonic stage is...... incredibly pathetic when it comes to simply importing a file or folder, or any number of other menial functions..... i cant express how amazed i am with the quality of the software

[lical]

Hi.

I have a NH700 and the reason beacause I would like MP3-playing is that when I get some music in mp3, let's say at 160kbps the loss is quite important (compressed-twice) unless you use Hi-SP. My feeling is that you're 'wasting' some space in order not to loose quality (or am I wrong?).

If you've got all your audio CDs then ATRAC3Plus is wonderful.

[kiryen]

Shortly before Christmas i got the NH900, and im very satisfied with to sound quality.

But now im reading that the new ones can playback MP3's.

Will it be/Is it possible thru a firmware upgrade to make the NH?00 playback MP3's?

Or did i just waste 379 Euros???

If its not possible to upgrade, why doesnt sony make like a buy back auction thing.

Sony gets my "old" NH900 plus some of my money (like a 100€) and i get the new rh910!

Cheers

Per

←

Went to talk to my local Sony Store sales reps (Eaton Centre, Toronto, ON, Canada), they said that it'd be 25CDN for them to update the firmware to play MP3s. He did mention that there were plans for them to release the firmware online so that users could just download it and flash the ROM via USB, but I'm assuming that Sony doesn't want to risk people screwing it up and sending it in for repairs. (And this way they get some $$$ too, which should help them recoup the money they're losing on the PSP right now.)

EDIT: I told him I had a NH1, but it should apply to all first gen units.

OR maybe he confused the HiMD upgrade with the HD player upgrade, but I don't think so. He was talking specifically about the HiMD, and I think he knew his stuff.

Edited March 24, 2005 by kiryen

[Christopher]

kiryen! What promising news! I will look into my sources and see if I can find an official confirmation. Stay tuned.

[Clytn]

Wow! That's great news for a lot of people kiryen.. Good job =)

Somewhere out there is my NH900 floating around just waiting to get into my hands and get an Mp3 firmware update.. He'll just have to hurry up before he has to share my love with his younger sibling, the RH910..

[atrain]

tbh news aside, it's a pleasure to hear about a sony retail employee who actually knows about the technology he's selling. perhaps he glances at these boards? if so big up to you fella

[Christopher]

Rachel Branch is conversing with Tokyo about this for me and will get back to me very soon. She was pretty confused at the mention of such, so I'm not so sure if that's a good sign. Maybe those guys were thinking of the HD1..

[Clytn]

Rachel Branch is conversing with Tokyo about this for me and will get back to me very soon. She was pretty confused at the mention of such, so I'm not so sure if that's a good sign. Maybe those guys were thinking of the HD1..

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How did this go kurisu?

[p4cman]

This is quite interesting. I personally don't have anything against Atrac, but what bothers me is the extra time it takes to convert all my media files.

[MDGB2]

IF this firmware update malarky is true (still find it hard to believe - it is Sony afterall) then I will shelve my plans to get the RH10 and just buy a NH900 while they're cheap!

Bwh! Ha! Ha!

[matrulesok]

Just a technical question:

How would a firmware update work? I would've thought that a mp3 decoding chip was required rather than mp3 decoding software. Would it even be possible to have mp3 decoding software in a minidisc player? I hope it is, since I've just bought a mznh900 cheap from amazon, but I'm not holding my breath...

[ROMBUSTERS]

Just a technical question:

How would a firmware update work? I would've thought that a mp3 decoding chip was required rather than mp3 decoding software. Would it even be possible to have mp3 decoding software in a minidisc player? I hope it is, since I've just bought a mznh900 cheap from amazon, but I'm not holding my breath...

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supposidly this question came up in regards to the sony 1st gen HDD players as well.

The answer to this tehnical question was more or less another technical question (if that makes sense). Supposidly the Atrac decoding chip has more than enough power behind it in order to read the software instructions and decode MP3s in real time as well.

Also all HiMD players have a PCM decoder chip as well, surely that requires some horsepower right there...

[Latexxx]

Also all HiMD players have a PCM decoder chip as well, surely that requires some horsepower right there...

←

PCM doesn't require any kind of horse power because you can feed it to dac as is.

[ROMBUSTERS]

PCM doesn't require any kind of horse power because you can feed it to dac as is.

←

normally i'd agree (if we were talking about CD players) however it isnt just straight PCM we're talking about. its PCM inside a WAV encased file. And no that in itself doesnt take the power, the pushing out of that kind of bit rate does

[rcc]

I believe that there is no way that Sony will ever upgrade the first generation Hi-MD players that have already been sold.

The reasoning is simple. Any upgrade is going to cost Sony a fair amount of money. Setting up an idiot-proof update procedure and rolling it out to the field costs money. They have to pay for any extra materials. Every update will cost someone time (and therefore money) to perform. Even if you assume that the sales person could do upgrades in their "spare" time, they have to be trained on the upgrade (and generating the training information and any materials will cost money) and some of the time, they will be doing an upgrade instead of their normal store jobs (cleaning, stocking, inventory, helping to sell something, etc.). Even spare time isn't free.

So a firmware upgrade will cost and that cost comes out of Sony's pocket.

I'm not sure how much Sony makes on a Hi-MD player in profit for every unit sold but the profit margin on consumer items like a minidisc player, even a high-end consumer item isn't that great.

The cost of performing any such upgrade is likely to wipe out much, if not most (or even all) of the profit that Sony made on the original sale.

Not to mention the fact that some folks at Sony undoubtedly believe (and probably correctly) that upgrades of first-gen Hi-MD units will cannibalize second-gen sales.

Sony might decide to charge for the upgrade but it's simpler and less confusing for them, for everyone in the sales/marketing chain and the customers to leave the first gen units alone and roll out the second gen units now that they have them.

So in my opinion, what you see is what you get with the first-gen units.

If you want MP3 playback, you'll have to buy a new player that supports it.

- Ray

[dex Otaku]

normally i'd agree (if we were talking about CD players) however it isnt just straight PCM we're talking about. its PCM inside a WAV encased file. And no that in itself doesnt take the power, the pushing out of that kind of bit rate does

←

WAV is just a container. With WAV PCM this is like saying "here's a PCM stream with a header saying what it is". The header requires no processing, and the stream requires no decoding because it's already in the native format that the DAC uses.

Note also that HiMD does not use WAV files, so the above is basically irrelevant anyway. HiMD uses a native [OMG] container for PCM.

PCM recording and playback requires more battery power because of the higher bitrates used. It does not require -any- processing power other than for encryption/decryption.

[Sparky191]

If they upgraded the 1st gen units and they are cheaper than the 2nd gen, it would hurt sales of the new units. That just wouldn't make economic sense. Sony do not have a track record of doing the customer any favours for goodwill. You usually have to beat/sue it out of them.

[Michael1980]

I believe that there is no way that Sony will ever upgrade the first generation Hi-MD players that have already been sold.

The reasoning is simple.  Any upgrade is going to cost Sony a fair amount of money.  Setting up an idiot-proof update procedure and rolling it out to the field costs money.  They have to pay for any extra materials.  Every update will cost someone time (and therefore money) to perform.  Even if you assume that the sales person could do upgrades in their "spare" time, they have to be trained on the upgrade (and generating the training information and any materials will cost money) and some of the time, they will be doing an upgrade instead of their normal store jobs (cleaning, stocking, inventory, helping to sell something, etc.).  Even spare time isn't free.

So a firmware upgrade will cost and that cost comes out of Sony's pocket.

I'm not sure how much Sony makes on a Hi-MD player in profit for every unit sold but the profit margin on consumer items like a minidisc player, even a high-end consumer item isn't that great.

The cost of performing any such upgrade is likely to wipe out much, if not most (or even all) of the profit that Sony made on the original sale.

Not to mention the fact that some folks at Sony undoubtedly believe (and probably correctly) that upgrades of first-gen Hi-MD units will cannibalize second-gen sales.

Sony might decide to charge for the upgrade but it's simpler and less confusing for them, for everyone in the sales/marketing chain and the customers to leave the first gen units alone and roll out the second gen units now that they have them.

So in my opinion, what you see is what you get with the first-gen units.

If you want MP3 playback, you'll have to buy a new player that supports it.

- Ray

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Well they did release the firmware for the mp3 playback on the HD1, and MS Pro for all non-pro compatible devices. So there is precedent at least.

I hope this will happen but the chances are pretty slim TBH.