Vanished Australia Topic

[Sefu]

I guess we pay a premium fo living on the ass-end of the world....

and sefu whilst the price reductions on new models in recent years has been great in Australia,  this would also be true for the rest of the world I'm sure. Meaning we are in the same position. Most 1st gen hi-MD's can be found between 40 and 50% cheapers at American online stores. I'd hate to imagine what Aussie stores would have sold the RH10 for.

What do we reallly care if sony doesn't bring hi-MD here? Most people on this site source them cheapily from overseas sites.

I have often bought overseas models to save on consumer electronics (I bought my US playstation in los angeles months before it was released in australia).

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My previous post on the 2nd page compares our pricing with a Singapore eStore. It shows our pricing is cheaper with the lower models and with the higher models we are slightly more expensive, but technically we are cheaper if you add in the tax etc. We also have the bundle pack (sorry to repeat).

I think it is extremely difficult for any store in any part of the world to compare pricing with the US market. As mentioned above the US market is much fiercer, more competitive and that is due to a larger market, larger consumers and many more products to compete with.

If we in Australia had the same demographics then I would be worried.

It's not only people on this board that buys MD, we have radio stations, uni students and many customers in the professional industry that rely on this technology.

There are advantages and disadvantages of purchasing off shore. The obvious is cheaper (well in the US), get the technology faster but the bad thing is no support and in some cases less accessories are included. I think the US RH10 does not come with a remote to slash the prices down?

I don't have a problem with importing, in fact I'm scoring myself a Japanese PSP because I cannot wait, but I do feel that the Australian pricing for MDs are more inline and competitive with the rest of the world.

Sorry I'm not trying to start a flame war, I feel I need to defend the Australian market. We live in this country so why not support it?

[skyther]

I can understand the point about demographics, but prices of iPods don't differ by much in different markets. I.E. a mini goes for USD200 which is approx AUD260, add in your GST and importing an iPod from the US would cost you AUD286, excluding shipping. Apple AU sells them locally for AUD299, which doesn't differ by much. Package contents in both countries are the same, apart from product localizations. The primary product is the same, unlike the mess which Sony made with the NH600(D).

I support my home market, but I definately believe that Sony AU are ripping us off. Here's a story that happened to me in 2003:

A month after I bought my N10, it screwed up. I took it back to the store (Sony Central, same franchise as those in the eastern states), and they told me they couldn't do nuts about it. Told me to take it to an authorized Sony repair centre which would fix it under warranty. When I took it to the repair centre, they said that all MD related repairs were to be forwarded to Sony AU themselves. I had to arrange for it to be shipped myself (shipping + insurance at my cost = utter BS) and they'd take 3 friggin weeks to get it back to me.

What's the procedure like when I send my iPod in for repairs? I drop it off at my Apple dealer, their techs do a 5 minute spot check on it, confirm it to be in need of repairs and sends it off to Sydney at no cost to me. Meanwhile, Apple ships them a brand new replacement pod. 3 days later they ring me up to collect my replacement. It's that simple.

There are some multinational corporations who look to treating their customers all over the world with equal fairness and others who are more interested in screwing the less fortunate over. I'm really not suprised as to why iPods are selling like burning hot cakes while MDs are near discontinued. It's all about corporate practice.

[lightbulbjim]

It's not only people on this board that buys MD, we have radio stations, uni students and many customers in the professional industry that rely on this technology.

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With regard to newer HiMD models being available in Australia (and I´m guessing that if 2nd gen aren´t going to be released here then quite possilby the 3rd gen etc aren´t going to necessarily be available either):

If there is this demand for MD gear in a professional setting, then what happens when the current stock of non-HiMD devices eventually become obsolete and phased out, and HiMD is the only thing available? Would the demand be enough that more HiMD devices would become available again here in Aus, or do you think professional users are more likely to switch to other (likely more cost-efficient) solutions?

Of course, I do realise we´re talking primarily about Sony here. If/when other manufacturers jump on the HiMD bandwagon, it will be interesting to see what the availability of their products are here (although I don´t have particularly high hopes I must admit).

[Sefu]

Good point Skyther.

I am going to speculate here about Apples pricing.

The iPod is now seen a the benchmark product, for a portable audio product to compete in the US it must match or better the pricing. This is because the US is a extremely competitive market. You will be eaten alive if you do not follow Apple in pricing. We have seen Creative do some slashing and overnight releases of their Zen Micros and iRiver has matched pricing with their H300 series in the US.

Now in Australia and other countries, from what I have seen, the big boys have not followed the pricing of Apple all that much, they make a small attempt to compete but not as aggressive of what happens in the US. It might be because the dealers are reluctant to make so little and these guys have little resourse to sell direct to the public like Apple do

Another reason why possibly Apple can have similar pricing worldwide is because their dealers make a tiny profit of around 8%, while Sony are a bit more generous and can make triple to 4 times the amount if you sold RRP.

So that means Apple make the majority of the profit while the dealers get small change. With Sony there is a bit more flexibility and sharing among Sony and dealers.

I imagine a lot of sales from Apple are direct from their stores, and little from their dealers, on the other hand the majority of Sony sales are from their dealers. Who buys from Sony Style?

So I think the way they distribute the product could also make a difference in pricing.

lightbulbjim, I think Hi-MD is one of the best recording formats around especially on the field. We have many customers dumping their NetMD and pre NetMD units for the extra functionality of Hi-MD. These guys definately do not need mp3 playback.

I can tell you now that the main reason people buying Hi-MD units are for the recording functionality and yes, beleive it or not, there is a huge base of customers after these. The majority of our stock are Hi-MD units. Thus the reason I am finding it hard to believe the rumor.

Sharp and other manufacturers will not be back. Well I doubt it very much.

There is no hard facts of MD dissappearing in Aus yet, I think I rather wait. Where was the original source from? Was the guy working at Sony HQ or Sony Central/Style?

I hope it does not happen as we be needing to import again

[Zathura]

There is no hard facts of MD dissappearing in Aus yet, I think I rather wait. Where was the original source from? Was the guy working at Sony HQ or Sony Central/Style?

I hope it does not happen as we be needing to import again

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Thats right- there is no hard facts yet, because the crucial decision is yet to be made. The information that I have been given come direct from upper echelons of Sony portable. My original post simply stated that decisions will soon be made about the viability of MD in Australia - and at this stage its not looking good. At all.

To be honest, I would prefer to not disclose too much of my identity, as my ass is very much on the line even disclosing this much information. Without being too melodramatic, I can very easily lose my job over this. Hope you undestand.

I will be in occassionaly to see what transpires in this thread, but I doubt I will post anything again until I know a little more what is happening. I hope I can bring you good news.

Edited April 13, 2005 by Zathura

[atrain]

thanks for what you've allready added to this thread, twice. hope you stick around, even as a contributer to the O/T side or even just lurking. diverse opinions are good, grounded knowledge is far better.

[skyther]

That's the problem here. By setting such a high RRP, it scares customers away even before product consideration. The RRP is sort of a benchmark pricing that all retailers will tend to follow, then give discounts IF a potential customer will bargain. I prefer (as a consumer) companies to go by a strict pricing policy rather than setting a high RRP and letting their retailers adjust the price as seen fit. It saves me having to go from shop to shop bargaining prices for something I'm interested in, as well as giving me assurance that I didn't just get screwed over because some other guy bought the same product from another shop for a hundred bucks less. Apple's strict policies which their dealers have to follow also ensure that I get similar levels of service wherever I buy their product from.

Take Megamart for example. Most of their prices are either set at RRP or matched to competitor's prices. They are also usually unwiling to give discounts unless the product can be matched to a lower price. I have an understanding that they buy their stock at cheaper prices vs your local family run electronics store due to the volume in which they purchase, yet they won't create any serious competition.

Then there's the actual product value. Is what you get in a NH1 sales package worth the AUD699 RRP?

[Sefu]

Thanks Zathura for clearing that up, I was late to this topic. But that helps clear things up on my side

Definately keep in touch if you hear of more news, whether it be public or private.

The RRP is simply a figure and should only be used a guildline price. Myers, Harvey Norman and Sony Style/Central love to use these prices. These guys target "mum and dad" customers who do not know where else to look.

Now I think there are both advantages and disadvantages of using the RRP system, the obvious disadvantage is what you said; there is not set price.

But I think there is a major advantage to this system; there is more flexibility in pricing. Each store will have their own pricing to compete with each other to draw in the customer. Now since everyone is competing you have more power as a customer to bargin from one to store to the other.

This is something you cannot do with Apple products.

Because Sony relies on its dealers to sell their products, they need to offer a atractive profit for them before they are willing to stock the Sony products.

It is illegal to force a business to sell at a particular price. The only way around it is to use Apples strategy; that is selling the product to them at a extremely high price which is close to the RRP thus you have to sell it at RRP to make money.

This is one reason why all Apple pricing are pretty much the same and you are unable to haggle the pricing and the reason why Myers, Kmart exclude ipod products when having a store wide sale.

Now if Sony was to take the same approach as Apple (selling at extremely high prices) then they will lose support from their dealers. Sony do not do much direct sales.

Now because Sony rely on their dealers, there is a wider spread of Sony gear out there. More dealers equals more competition equals price wars

Sony and Apple use different strategies with getting their products out there. Apple mainly do direct sales while Sony rely on dealers. I think both approaches have benifits.

[Zathura]

Ok guys, got a bit more information for you...

IF the next generation units will be bought in to Australia, it will not be until January 2006 at the earliest. The current line will be current until the end of this year. Then thats either the end of MD, or a new model. Hopefully the latter, but again, that decision is still to be made.

The bonus pack for all models (microphone, bag / charger, bag) will be continuing all this time.

Its also noteworthy that many new Sony HDD MP3 Walkmans are going to be released through the year (about a year too late though), and a huge price decrease was put out on Friday for the NWE50 + NWE70. Its pretty obvious this is where Sony is going.

Until I hear more...

[Christopher]

Pfft. They really should introduce the second generation Hi-MD units now instead of milking what's left of the first. The second generation units are much more attractive..

[MZ-NH1]

Are there going to be any new HDD Sony players, which hold more than 20GB? and are good...?

Is the HDD players really just for listening and not recording...

And MD's are more for listening and recording?

[Zathura]

Are there going to be any new HDD Sony players, which hold more than 20GB? and are good...?

Possibly a 40 GB.

Is the HDD players really just for listening and not recording...

And MD's are more for listening and recording?

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Correct!

[MZ-NH1]

K cheers mate!

Suppose I will be staying with the MD for now then

[mattstar]

I will dive right in with my first post.

All info below is but my humble opinion....

I work for a white goods company that shall remain nameless and i have quite an insight into the way retailers work in OZ.

Myer/Megamart are a tiny player when it comes to elctronics/whitegoods they sell next to nothing considering the amount of stores they have. The reason they are reluctant to go lower than RRP is that they do not sell enuf to get good prices from the suppliers. Majority of their customers are also not the type who bargain for prices.

Hardly Normal are in the middle i believe they are both overpriced and do not sell as much product as the big 4. Harvey Norman i once considered to sell good product but within the last couple of years has stooped to selling a lot of CRAP no name stuff. From what i have heard HN use a lot of strong arm tactics to limit what their competitors can sell.

The big players in australia are Betta, Retravision, Bing Lee and Good Guys. Retravision has unbeleivable buying power and has so many stores/partners it is mind boggling, What their relationship is like with Sony i do not know. Good Guys like to purchase in bulk and can tyhen offer that model at much cheaper than any other store, they measure success on sell through more than profit margin.

Most Manufacturers offer stores bulk purchase discounts , these products are usually obsolete models, too many made/imported or specially produced "LOW END MODELS".

As MD is never gonna be a VOLUME seller the only time any serious discounts would be offered is wen a model is obsolete and by this time nobody will buy it anyway, I think the PACK INS that Sony OZ offer are a great idea to try and offset this fact.

[zerodB]

A mate of mine is a manager in coles-myer... he says Megamart is the only coles-myer enterprise that operates at loss.

Not too sure what to make of that one.

[mattstar]

They are not aligned with any buying group as far as i know so they do not have large buying power. That is y DSE stores dumped em.

Edited April 23, 2005 by mattstar

[MZ-NH1]

They are not aligned with any buying group as far as i know so they do not have large buying power. That is y DSE stores dumped em.

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Go DSE Powerhouses

I love huge electronic shops!

Only problem for me is you get depressed real quickly when you see soemthing you just have to have, yet you don't wanna spend the money on it, because it isn't really needed

[ozpeter]

Don't you just love the smell of some of these places? All those warm chips.

As for Powerhouse etc - when the assistant breezes up and asks if he can help me, I usually reply "It's OK, I'm just looking for something I never realised I needed".

[mattstar]

Don't you just love the smell of some of these places?  All those warm chips.

As for Powerhouse etc - when the assistant breezes up and asks if he can help me, I usually reply "It's OK, I'm just looking for something I never realised I needed".

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Assistant at DSE let me look at their computer(stock enquiry) as he was looking at the details of a televsion for me, turns out they were making next to no money on that particular TV. I was actually shocked at how they could sell it for so little. Pity i still could not afford it.

Actually my local Dick Smith Powerhouse(Penrith) has been a supporter of MD up until recently, they always stocked blanks and several portables always in stock and i have seen no other store that had as many mini hifis with MD. Now they have blanks and not much else....

Edited April 24, 2005 by mattstar

[Breepee2]

Are there going to be any new HDD Sony players, which hold more than 20GB? and are good...?

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30GB version of the HD5 is confirmed.

[Zathura]

Not sure if this has been confirmed for Australia, but I have heard the model number bandied around.

[zerodB]

JB Hifi stores always stock a huge supply of blanks, and have quite a few portables in stock. At the chadstone store in melbourne, vic. for example, they have all the first gen Hi-MDs, and even a new MZR-900, which they can't seem to get rid of. Most stores also stock some of the sony mics, caselogic MD cases, and also, the CMT-333NT, the only Sony NetMD/MDLP bookshelf currently available here in AUS.

That said, the MD displays are dwarfed in comparison the the whole subsection of the stores dedicated to ipod and it's accessories.

[atrain]

it was actually jbhifi at chadstone where i was told that they probably wouldn't be stocking then second gen if asles of the first are any indication. not really surprised given they high initial RRP.

[t0fler]

its a real shame as i want to replace my MZ R410 but looking at the current prices being asked for in Australia for the current 1st gen models its hard to justify not getting one sent from overseas,

but once my 2nd gen minidisc is in Aus, who do i go to if theres a problem?

[zerodB]

but once my 2nd gen minidisc is in Aus, who do i go to if theres a problem?

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Depends. Most units come with an international warranty these days, so you can just take it to any authorised service centre. That said, it might be hard for such centres to get servicing manuals &c if the units aren't actually being sold in aussie stores.

Other than that you can send your unit O/S.

[Zyan]

After reading this post over it occurred to me that many people might perceive it as being just a troll post - this isn't the case. I love MD (I've been using it for yonks), but I think it's time to tell it like it is:

As a long time MiniDisc user (and one of the people who spent months trying to hack the NetMD data protocol to allow recorded track downloads and uploads using apps other than OpenMG), I can say without a doubt that a big part of the reason this problem exists is because of the way that NetMD and Hi-MD technology were introduced.

After hearing all of the problems with the original NetMD implementation (the ridiculous 3 check-out limit, the inability to download recorded sound from the NetMD units through USB, along with many other software related issues and annoyances with OpenMG, which was an atrocity of usability) and therefore subsequently waiting off to upgrade to NetMD due the very high prices of the new units, by the time the users did shell out their cash and migrate to NetMD, thinking that it was "the new MD platform", they were surprised with the announcement of Hi-MD.

Suddenly, just as their original MD units weren't of much use any more when MDLP-enabled players were released, their NetMD units again wouldn't be of much use when Hi-MD was released. Could it really be expected that the majority of users would want to spend *another* $800 a year later? $800, for a portable music player! Sony dropped the ball. In their foolish attempt to force people into using proprietary systems like ATRAC3 on the MemoryStick Walkmans, they made themselves irrelevant in the modern portable music industry of the iPod, with its wide-reaching advertising (for the record, I've never seen an MD ad anywhere) and, most importantly, *simplicity* (something that the NetMD system certainly lacked for the majority of users).

So I guess what I'm saying is, the reason Hi-MD didn't take off quickly in Australia was because people perceived them as not being worth the money compared to other technologies like the iPod, and for those already using MD, not worth upgrading to when they'd already spent a lot of money on NetMD units and been burnt by all of its hassles. There were too many changes in the technology too quickly. Had NetMD never been released and it'd jumped straight to Hi-MD, things would have been very different.

It would be a great shame to see Hi-MD fade into oblivion in Australia because Sony wasn't willing to advertise it properly. When there are cheap iPods and innovative new devices ike the iPod Photo, is it any wonder that MD is being left behind by a large proportion of the music-listening society who just want a reliable, reasonably priced and user-friendly portable music player?

Hmm, I love MD, I don't want to see it die in Australia. Let's face it though: if you mention an iPod, even your grandmother knows what you're talking about. Mention MiniDisc and most people don't know what the hell it is... even though it's been around for over a decade. If one of the biggest consumer electronics, music and motion picture companies on the planet can't get MD to be a cultural icon given over 10 years to try, yet the iPod - the invention of a computer company that has always been considered the underdog - can become that in just a couple of years, what does that say about Sony's performance? One of the biggest mistakes Sony ever made was having an internal conflict of interest between its music division (regarding copy-protected CDs, etc) and its Walkman division which relied directly upon it, and was subsequently crippled by the DRM/OpenMG/whatever restrictions from that music division.

On the other hand, the PlayStation Portable is one of the smartest things Sony ever did. Clever product design that *delivers what the customer wants*, rather than restricting them.

[mattstar]

I am not sure SONY ever expected or attempted to make MD a huge international hit. MD has never been able to compete against the rest of SONY's walkman range in terms of price, and the lower end is where most product is sold. Surprisingly today i still see more people with cassette and cd walkmans then with digital players. Md is a premium priced product, it cannot be anything else as the components are not used in any other product so they are not produced in huge quantities so price redustions are less likely. HDD players use mostly off the shelf parts that are produced in there billions, this makes cheaper to produce and prices come down the longer they are produced. I think MD is/was/will always be a niche product and i am sure SONY made a packet from licensing the technolgy to every major JAP manufacturer throughout the 90's.

Sony's biggest mistake was not releasing flash and HDD based players earlier(if they got in early enuf i am sure the public would have even accepted ATRAC only players), they could have easily outdone APPLE as they already were established in every single electronics store. In OZ APPLE has only just penetrated mainstream elctronics stores in the last year. HDD/FLASH players are in demand, no matter how good we know MD is most consumers want whats hot. As long as MD progresses and continues to fill it's niche it will last for a while yet.

[atrain]

there was the alien ads, the break off netmd ads in prime time, the ads last year with the 'tail' people featuring a mznh1. all of these ads were on high rotation for quite some time.

[MZ-NH1]

there was the alien ads, the break off netmd ads in prime time, the ads last year with the 'tail' people featuring a mznh1. all of these ads were on high rotation for quite some time.

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I have seriously never seen any MD ads here in Sydney!

[atrain]

here's the breakdance one, they used play it during the simpsons when n10 & e10 were released

http://www.sony.com.hk/Electronics/eng/con..._n10_e10_45.mpg

i tried to find a copy of the tail wag network walman ads featuring the mznh1 but sony withdrew the ad after people world wide were aparently offended!

here is a petition to ban it in australia

http://www.advertisingstandardsbureau.com.au/PDF/04_133.pdf

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/25/...s&oneclick=true

what a joke, i liked that one

[MZ-NH1]

Oh yeh! I have seen that 1st one, but it was a bit shorter, and they didn't show the transfering part...

Can't really rememeber the other ones :S

[atrain]

the wag the tail was a whole lot of brazillian people on public transport listening to some raggae when tails appeared out of thier clothes. the ran around & away from police whilst enjoying tunes on various network walkman products. they're less than a year old. the main one featured a rm40elk & nh21 combo

[MZ-NH1]

the wag the tail was a whole lot of brazillian people on public transport listening to some raggae when tails appeared out of thier clothes. the ran around & away from police whilst enjoying tunes on various network walkman products. they're less than a year old. the main one featured a rm40elk & nh21 combo

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I might have seen that one, I can just picture what it would look like in my head, but don't think I would have known what it was for...

[Zathura]

One ad was on the front cover of the Winter O4 Pulse Magazine (the last one).

Speaking of which, does anyone have the first issue of Pulse and issue 10? They are the only two I am missing, and no one we know seems to have it.... I would be happy to pay for em :-). Anyone?

[MZ-NH1]

Why would you want an out of date Sony magazine...? Unless of course you collect them.

[Zathura]

Yeah, they are good to look back on.

[Nevermind]

it is sad to see that MD is been pulled out from the market in some countries, esspecially australia it's a big country i thought that the sales is going well there. Here in Malaysia the second generation Hi-MD are not going to be here, same as Singapore & Thailand. Owh It sad...

[Ishiyoshi]

it is sad to see that MD is been pulled out from the market in some countries, esspecially australia it's a big country i thought that the sales is going well there. Here in Malaysia the second generation Hi-MD are not going to be here, same as Singapore & Thailand. Owh It sad...

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That is just too bad. However, if the RH10 service manual is accurate, Sony does intend to market 2nd generation units for the Australian market. Hopefully, our Australian counterpart will soon see the RH10. As for South-East Asian countries, I am sure some retailer will import the Japanese tourist version.

[MZ-NH1]

What does the manual say in it that makes you think 2G MD's will be in Australia?

[Ishiyoshi]

What does the manual say in it that makes you think 2G MD's will be in Australia?

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Within the RH10 Service Manual, there is specific information regarding destination codes and accessories part numbers, which bears classification of AUS - Australian model.