Hi-MD User Manuals, Storage Drive + NH600 Knockoff

[Christopher]

The MZ-DH10P, RH10 and RH910 user manuals have surfaced:

MZ-DH10P: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/MZDH10P.pdf

MZ-RH10: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/MZRH10.pdf

MZ-RH910: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/MZRH910.pdf

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Buffalo, a company known for networking products, a little under 30 years old and with no prior association to the Minidisc area has delved into the Hi-MD scene with a MZ-NH600 clone with native *.mp3 playback dubbed the "MD-HUSB":

[attachmentid=264]

[additional pictures here: 1, 2, 3.]

5mW output, has ability to use/record all ATRAC3/plus offerings, can playback PCM, and will use a special edition of BeatJam to facilitate transfer - I imagine the drivers would play nice with Sonicstage, however. But the oddest thing is that this unit employs a USB 2 connection for a hypothetical maximum of 11mbps transfer to disc [for data only] as the limitations of the media itself cannot ascend above that. I imagine the write speeds for audio are the same as they are on 1st + 2nd generation Hi-MD, perhaps being slightly faster.

Additionally, there are reports in the press release that there will be Mac compatible software [beatJam] that will be able to write data and audio, something that has never been done before with any NetMD or Hi-MD generation from any company. USB 2, something Sony has never used since the conception of NetMD, is now available from someone whom has never been in the MD market before. Go figure.

No word on price or availability.

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Lastly, Sony has released a "Hi-MD storage" drive [dubbed DS-HMD1] for use with the computer. It will appear in four colors, pictured here:

[attachmentid=265]

[additional pictures here: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.]

USB 1.1, and all transfers will be powered by USB; compatible with Windows 98 SE/Me/2000/XP. This unit will accept Hi-MD and regular MD discs formatted in Hi-MD mode. The highest transfer speed will be 9.8mbps + 4.73mbps for MD discs formatted in Hi-MD mode. This unit does not need Sonicstage to transfer data, and can also transfer music to your library [requires Sonicstage 3.1]. Dimensions: 86.0×79.3×22.9mm, and weighs just about 100g. No word on North American/Europe release, so the rest of us will probably end up importing it.

I would imagine this to retail around $100 if it does hit US/Euro.

[jadeclaw]

Additionally, there are reports in the press release that there will be Mac compatible software [beatJam] that will be able to write data and audio, something that has never been done before with any NetMD or Hi-MD generation from any company.

According to this page, BeatJam natively supports MacOS.

And I guess, a green DS-HMD1 will join my NH700 later this year.

[skyther]

Confirmed with an optical in/ac in/remote port? Looks like a mock-up picture to me. The optical in is just an empty hole.

[hobgoblin]

hang on, native *.mp3 playback? gimme gimme gimme!

so i can then just drag-n-drop files onto the media, stuff it in the player and boom i have playback? how the hell did sony let this slip past em? this sucker will outsell their players by a longshot!

as for 11mbps transfer, thats what usb1 can handle at peak performance...

heh, it would be nice if they made a internal variant on that storage device that could either use floppy or (s)ata cable. that way i could replace those old floppy drives

[Bananatree]

Haha, "Buffalo"... don't they make school supplies?

What a goofy mock-up, I hope the real one looks a bit nicer.

[bug80]

hang on, native *.mp3 playback? gimme gimme gimme!

so i can then just drag-n-drop files onto the media, stuff it in the player and boom i have playback? how the hell did sony let this slip past em? this sucker will outsell their players by a longshot!

If I understand it correctly, you still need a special program (BeatJam) to transfer the files, if you want to be able to play them back.

I think this is a special move from Sony. Because Mac users will be able to use Hi-MD with this unit, the sales probably will go up en Hi-MD is more likely to become a "standard". Furthermore, it was time for some cheap/low budget units to enter the market, so that people who just want a player to listen to their MP3's can jump onto the Hi-MD train. However, Sony has a high reputation (hardware wise! I repeat, hardware wise!) and probably choose to outsource the production of such low budget units for that reason.

[The_Stamp]

I wonder how much the DS-HMD1 will be. I might buy one for work.

[Kaotic]

According to this page, BeatJam natively supports MacOS.

OS X Tiger due out at the end of month, and BeatJam support only upto OS X Panther! is that mean, those Mac users will be left out again, if those mac users upgrade their OS? or will Beatjam come out with new version that will support OS X Tiger? hmmm....

[hobgoblin]

i think the reason that they write panther is that its the latest official os from apple, and the latest they have been able to test it on. i fail to see how apple can mess up the application compatiblity that badly as tiger is basicly just a updated panther.

[StarknigHT]

If the nh600d wannabe is real, i feel kind of cheaped out by sony

it would have been nice if i had line in and a ac input, so i would never have to take out my NiMH ever again ahahaha

[betamaxDATminidisc]

Thank you for Kurisu (excellent information!)

[hobgoblin]

hmm, that buffalo unit have me a bit worryed. the more i look into it the more it seems to be a japan only item. and it looks to be damn hard to get hold of where i live, norway...

[psychowood]

Just a thought: this is a 600D clone, but with native MP3 support. I don't believe they 'restructured' the original unit (except eventually for the added in/out jacks, which were supporter by the PCB anyway), so maybe the real differences are only software ones?

..........just wondering.

[hobgoblin]

the design may be cloned but im guessing the hardware and firmware is buffalo made...

[bobdibest]

Why don't Sony just do what any normal company trying to further one of its inventions do and comission a HiMD drive on all computers it makes, as a freebe drive like DVD is now and suddenly cheap storage solution!!!! As easy to write to as a floppy disc (altho faster) and as cheap as a floppy with the advantage that flash memory is expensive and 1gig is a lot more expensive! Come on isnt it obvious? a loss leader if you like!!!

Make it a dual HiMD/UMD drive and get Dell/Compaq/eMachines in on the game and suddenly people have these cheap removable discs that can also store audio/video (eventually - connect will have movies) playable on PSP and HiMD walkmans and also jpeg and i suppose 2006 will see mpeg support! fantastic a format that finally works!!!!!!

come on sony get with it!

[jadeclaw]

so maybe the real differences are only software ones?

..........just wondering. 

←

My guess: A european NH600 with an RH710 processor.

Both units have a jog dial, line-in/optical and a three-line LCD and run from an AA-cell.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

@bobdibest: I'm wondering myself.

An IDE-drive, exact in the 3 1/2 "-Formfactor could turn HiMD into the next generation Zip-Drive.

Plus, special contracts with System-builders could increase the proliferation of HiMD as well.

[Ug]

the DS-HMD1 its a good thing,

The MD or HIMD only need more publicity

[bobt]

Has anyone tried BeatJam with a Sony unit to see if it works??

Could be interesting.

Bob

Edited April 14, 2005 by bobt

[reefbeef]

Would this scenario work:

Record concert with NH1. Use Buffalo product to upload concert to Mac?

Also, what is the storage capacity of the storage drive? Or am I missing the point...that it's more like an external drive for the PC than a storage drive?

[Spare Tire]

Argn, why an external drive, i hate external drives with all their wires. They should make it internal, and put it into their vaio laptop or something.

[atrain]

i don't own a vaio, not really interested in an over priced for the features notebook. an external drive has everything i might want.

[dragon_MG]

#1: Will SonicStage 3.0 support the Buffalo Device (Native MP3)?

#2: Where can I get one?!?!?!?!

[atrain]

aparently there will be a special version of beatjam, part of the sonicstage/mora family of software. it may be mac compatible, however that may be a translation mistake.

[zerodB]

All will be revealed in due course...

Personally I prefer the idea of an internal HiMD storage drive - but perhaps this can be countered by using a Hi-MD bookshelf in conjuction with your PC?

Speculation is that a new Hi-MD bookshelf unit will appear soon...

[bobdibest]

Thats what I need a cheap external/internal HiMD storage drive, but unless this drive is below the £50 mark i wont be buying it. Furthermore if the RH10 doesnt come with a decent remote ill be waiting for gen3 HiMD which are bound to support MPEG and AVI, have bigger screens to target an audience who want movies but dont want a PSP and may even become UMD hybrids! the possibilities are endless, one thing I do know is that Sony will keep adding to it so we keep buying it!

Edited April 15, 2005 by bobdibest

[dex Otaku]

But the oddest thing is that this unit employs a USB 2 connection for a hypothetical maximum of 11mbps transfer to disc [for data only] as the limitations of the media itself cannot ascend above that. I imagine the write speeds for audio are the same as they are on 1st + 2nd generation Hi-MD, perhaps being slightly faster.

USB 1.1 [what current Sony HiMDs use] = 12MBps.

USB 2.0 = 480MBps

[source: USB.org]

[supersaphir]

Why does Sony stick to old technology?

I mean if they would implement Blue Ray technology to the MD NEXT YEAR (!) it would give the company an opportunity to profile itself as the inventor of the nextgen Floppy Disk with say 5 or maybe even 10 GB. All these crappy CD-Rs, DVD+RW-RAM-DualLayer-stuff would become obsolete and replaced by the new Blue-Ray MD standard for PC AND MAC and let's say Camcorders. This is something that consumers of electronics and computer-users have been waiting for a long time. Backwards-compatibility guaranteed.

Actually it is only a matter of time. If Sony doesn't bring it out next year (which indeed is not realistically) they should do so in two. If they will in three, it will take at least another three years (a total of six years from today) to really ESTABLISH the Blue Ray-MD on the market.

I am sure that Sony will not spoil this one-in-a-million chance.

[davidedney123]

Hi

I think we all know that Sony will take this opportunity and flush it down the toilet. Personally I don't expect to EVER see that external Hi-MD storage drive in US or Europe, and I'm not sorry - it's slow and the media is too expensive. It can't compete with the universal compatability of CD-R/RW or the robustness and size of USB key drives and will doubtless be more expensive and slower than both.

If they'd released something like this in 1997/8 for original MD, or better still in 1992 when they launched MD (ok, it would have been SCSI or Parallel then) then they could have made something of it. The MD data product they did release originally was crippleware for the get go, and was quite rightly rejected by the marketplace.

If Sony are ever going to return to form in the CE arena they need to kick the lawyers out of the boardroom. Guys like us hold on in the hope they won't shaft us with their next brain-dead product, and they always dissappoint. As much as I love MD (I have owned an MZ-1 since the day MD launched in the UK, and have over 10 MD units) I do not think I will be bothering with Hi-MD. It takes a lot to loose a dedicated and loyal customer like me, but Sony have managed it.

Also, SonicStage is so bad that I use RealPlayer instead to copy stuff to NetMD. I work in IT, and I choose to use RealPlayer over something else. That tells you everything you need to know about SonicStage. Until I got my NetMD recorder RealPlayer was on my "Do Not Install" list, along with Quicktime and the Netsky worm.

Dave

[bobdibest]

Blueray MD makes sense, its clever but it probably wont happen! Noone is sure as to whether bluray or HD DVD is going to win the format war and the technology is still quite niche and equipment large. Bluray recorders are huge (size wise) at the moment and expensive, very expensive. Throwing a bluray MD drive on the market would not only cost a fortune to implement but a fortune to buy, and it would probably be the size of the old MD recorders. However a bluray MD data comp drive would make sense, who cares about size then ay?! Its not aimed at portability!!

Anyway Sony can squeeze 4 gig onto the HiMD at the moment, so why not just implement a HiMD high capacity drive, sign up a few large companies to add one as a standard drive in all new comps and get the ball rolling on this format! If they dropped the patents or lowered the cost of reproducing the media more companies would in cos even a 1 gig removable disc as easy to copy to as a floppy (and faster), smaller and more durable than DVDs and CDs and with the added option of portability music and video wise, HiMD would then make sense!

But it wont happen, so for now ill stare at my E10 still bemused by how small it is, and wait for MD to flourish or die because im fed up spending money on MD! Ill buy into hard drive technology for now (even if battery life and reliability are lower)!

[streaml1ne]

Hi

  I think we all know that Sony will take this opportunity and flush it down the toilet.  Personally I don't expect to EVER see that external Hi-MD storage drive in US or Europe, and I'm not sorry - it's slow and the media is too expensive.  It can't compete with the universal compatability of CD-R/RW or the robustness and size of USB key drives and will doubtless be more expensive and slower than both. 

←

Yea, but MO media doesn't suffer from degradation like dye based formats like CDR/DVD-R.

[bobdibest]

I agree MD is far superior as a storage medium when compared to CD and DVD! CD/DVD corrode over time where as MDs will not! They are also protected from the air by their casing allowing a longer shelf life!

[Spare Tire]

Okay so it's an HiMD data drive. But does will it record my music too? Back then md-data and md wasn't the same thing. Now since HiMD can store data anyway, what does it mean when they say HiMD data?

And yeah, i'd go with the bookshelf hookup to a computer idea. Just that some may already have a bookshelf and would just rather have an internal drive they can dump their music in.

[alieninhead]

Why don't Sony just do what any normal company trying to further one of its inventions do and comission a HiMD drive on all computers it makes, as a freebe drive like DVD is now and suddenly cheap storage solution!!!! As easy to write to as a floppy disc (altho faster) and as cheap as a floppy with the advantage that flash memory is expensive and 1gig is a lot more expensive! Come on isnt it obvious? a loss leader if you like!!!

Make it a dual HiMD/UMD drive and get Dell/Compaq/eMachines in on the game and suddenly people have these cheap removable discs that can also store audio/video (eventually - connect will have movies) playable on PSP and HiMD walkmans and also jpeg and i suppose 2006 will see mpeg support! fantastic a format that finally works!!!!!!

come on sony get with it!

←

I think this would work well, but so many people I work with are sure everything is going to either CD or flash memory. While flash memory is getting cheaper, I highly doubt it'll ever rival the cost of a CD or MD disc.

Sony'll probably drop the ball on this one. Not because they want to see MD fail, but because I think since they believe in "multiple formats for multiple people" they'll let the niche market decide if MD will become a standard. Sigh.

Also, I surfed the BeatJam website and found no information about it for Mac OS, yet. There is a program called ATOK for Mac OS X but I have no idea what it does....

~alien in head

[bobdibest]

I fear your right thats why ive stopped spending money on MD, which is ashame because i still find them fascinating and wonder why Sony made such a bodge job of a great format! such is life, think i could run sony better, well at least their Walkman department anyway!

Edited April 15, 2005 by bobdibest

[Spare Tire]

I don't see why they're making it USB 2 if the disc can't even use a significant fraction of the bandwidth. And USB 1 devices can be used with USB 2 connections, but not the reverse, so this is full of shit for people with old USB 1 computers.

[The_Stamp]

Spare Tire, Please watch your language

As for the USB 2.. this year's gen models are using usb 1. they're just saying its usb2 COMPATABLE.

[jadeclaw]

@Spare Tire: Almost all USB2-devices do work on USB1.1 connections - of course only with USB1.1 speed.

Exception: Devices that do need the speed of USB2, like realtime video-grabbers.

[SimonMackay]

============BEGIN QUOTE======================

Lastly, Sony has released a "Hi-MD storage" drive [dubbed DS-HMD1] for use with the computer.

==========CUT image detail============================

USB 1.1, and all transfers will be powered by USB; compatible with Windows 98 SE/Me/2000/XP. This unit will accept Hi-MD and regular MD discs formatted in Hi-MD mode. The highest transfer speed will be 9.8mbps + 4.73mbps for MD discs formatted in Hi-MD mode. This unit does not need Sonicstage to transfer data, and can also transfer music to your library [requires Sonicstage 3.1]. Dimensions: 86.0×79.3×22.9mm, and weighs just about 100g. No word on North American/Europe release, so the rest of us will probably end up importing it.

============END QUOTE======================

A big question about this data drive is whether it will support the playback of "legacy" MDs through the host's sound infrastructure. This is because, since 1999, I had built up a sizeable collection of MDs recorded to "original" specs (SP or mono LP, ATRAC codec, classic MD file system).

Other issues in relation to this include whether Sony will develop "transcode" and disc management utilities for the MD format, which could do things like:

* defragment an MD or HiMD disc irrespective of file system for efficient playback on portable equipment

* transcode MD content to newer ATRAC codecs for improved disc-space use

* "remake" a classic-format MD to Hi-MD specs or

* perform audio-content tasks like volume levelling, "scale-factor" editing and the like.

With regards,

Simon Mackay

[baronng]

if MD/HiMD's reading/writing speed is comparable with CD (40x)

and there are cheaper USB 2.0 supported Drive

+ there are MD player that could play mp3 in MD/HiMD(FAT/FAT32 formatted) natively (no external program for transferring the mp3 to the MD)

the MD/HiMD could have longer life span and it's a good news for us

[anont]

Why don't Sony just do what any normal company trying to further one of its inventions do and comission a HiMD drive on all computers it makes, as a freebe drive like DVD is now and suddenly cheap storage solution!!!!

I dunnow, the idea of a Data-drive Hi-MD seems really goofy to me. A DVD-R is much larger, much cheaper, burns much faster, and already works on most computers. For something convenient, key drives aren't so expensive. Sony is out to lunch on this one, I'm afraid.