Dab Radio ====>hi-md (or Net-md) Great

[1kyle]

Fed up with buying "Compressed Downloaded Music" with all the DRM stuff that goes with it.

Well why not try using DAB Digital Audio Broadcasting - Radio --at least in the UK and most of W.Europe. Where I am there's about 50 stations on it currently.

DAB quality is often (but NOT Always so check first what programs are in Hi-quality) ) very reasonable -- often better quality than SKY Satellite Radio stations and some SONY DAB radios such as the XDR-S1 actually have an OPTICAL OUT as well as a Line OUT and Line In on the back (marked MD-LINK).

OK Real time but you can get some great stuff from DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting -Radio) and can copy it to MD .

The DAB stuff has Text and works really well on to MD.

The MD you've made can then be copied digitally Once as per the normal "Digital Copy' but you can upload into a computer as a WAV file and do whatever you want with it.

Just another potential FREE legal source of music for you without any stupid play restrictions.

The Music Industry thought DRM would "Save its Bacon" -- in fact it's the Death Knell for the Old type Music Industry --although they haven't realized it yet

In fact perhaps we should label all DRM'ed music as D(efinitely) R(ubbish) M(usic).

Cheers

-K

Edited June 21, 2005 by 1kyle

[atrain]

i thought dab in the uk was approx 128kbs in quality? happy to be corrected.

[The Low Volta]

Well why not try using DAB Digital Audio Broadcasting - Radio --at least in the UK and most of W.Europe. Where I am there's about 50 stations on it currently.

sounds interesting, had also tought about it...but in Belgium there aren't that many digital stations yet so I haven't spent the cash for a DAB-set yet (also because of some reports on bad audio quality)

right now I'm already taping the internet radio broadcast of the only show I really want to listen again ('Duyster' on Studio Brussel) and that is @ 96kbit/s so unless DAB significantly raises above that and offers some more channels (like the BBC-radio!) I don't think I will spend money on it yet...

(we will be getting digital TV here soon, with very expensive but richely featued setup boxes... I'm hoping it will have an optical out or something so I can get Later with Jools or some other good music shows/live reports from summer festivals etc... in a good quality)

Volta

[1kyle]

i thought dab in the uk was approx 128kbs in quality? happy to be corrected.

←

BBC Radio 3 (The Classical Music Service) uses 192K which is fine --I like a lot of Classical Music anyway

here's an extract from the BBC's technical department

--------------Start Extract----------------------

What bit rates does the BBC use for the national radio stations on DAB?

Some listeners have expressed an interest in knowing how the BBC manages our national DAB multiplex, including the varying bit-rates on our national radio stations:

All values measured in kilobits per second (kbits/s)

Radio 1 - 128 JS

Radio 2 - 128 JS

Radio 3 - 192 S *

Radio 4 - 128 JS **

Radio Five Live - 80 M

1Xtra - 128 JS

6 Music - 128 JS

BBC7 - 80 M

BBC Asian Network - 64 M

BBC World Service - 64 M

BBC Data services - 24

The multiplex departs from the above configuration to account for special circumstances. The principal changes, for Radio 4 and Five Live Sports Extra, are outlined below.

* When BBC Five Live Sports Extra is on air either Radio 4 drops to 80 kbits/s mono or Radio 3 drops to 160 kbits/s joint stereo.

**Radio 4 split for Yesterday in Parliament and Daily Service:

Station 0800 - 0900 0944 - 1000

Radio 4 80 M 80 M

Radio 4 (secondary services) 64 M 64 M

Data services 24 M 24 M

All values measured in kilobits per second (kbits/s)

Five Live Sports Extra is a part-time service. To accommodate it, Radio 3 or Radio 4 gives up some of its capacity; Sports Extra is transmitted at 64 kbits/s mono.

---------------------End Extract-----------------------------------

So it would appear that the quality is at least comparable to LP2 which is acceptable 99.99% of the time.

Other stations might use higher or Lower bit rates but the BBC usually sets the standard in the UK.

The Radio 3 @ 192 bit rate is very acceptable as well.

Cheers

-K

Edited June 21, 2005 by 1kyle

[atrain]

i used to listen to 5live & sports extra online till they started blocking outside uk IPs. i could use a proxy but that's a real pain. bastards.

[1kyle]

i used to listen to 5live & sports extra online till they started blocking outside uk IPs. i could use a proxy but that's a real pain. bastards.

←

I was working in Helsinki a while ago and it annoyed me too --just as the Premiership was coming up to its climax. This was due to "Smart Assed US type Laywers" working for the Premiership. --However they did have a lot of live football via CANAL + and loads of Sports Bars to watch the matches in.

However OT -- If you can turn a Satellite Dish round to 28 deg E. ALL the BBC domestic stations and CHANNEL 5 have been Unscrambled since June last year and are often way ahead over what's on offer in most of Europe --No viewing card needed either --totally FTA.

To tune in you'll need a Universal LNB and get the frequencies from "Google".

You don't need a "Sky Digibox" -- as these are now FTA stations any decent satellite receiver such as HUMAX etc will pick them up --provided as noted -- You've tiurned your dish round to 28.E (Most of W.Europe uses the Old Astra satellite at 19 Deg E or "Hot Bird" at 13. deg E.) and you use a universal LNB.

I think the Radio stations might be blocked as they are carried on the SKY feed --but I could be wrong there --perhaps somebody could try it and post the results.

Must get back to work now !!!

Cheers

-K

Edited June 21, 2005 by 1kyle

[atrain]

i'm in australia so it's not much help... but thanks for the thought, i'll still listen to the sky rebroadcast of bbc london for spurs games

[MDGB2]

I have been recording DAB to minidisc optically for a few years now. Quality is quite good (SP mode) at least on par with mp3 & LP2. Station broadcast varies mainly between 128kbps & 192kbps.

If only there was a Hi-MD deck, as the editing and titling features of a deck are much more convenient for recording than a portable.

Edited June 21, 2005 by MDGB2

[jadeclaw]

@Volta:

According to the wohnort-site all VRT-stations execept nieuws+ use 160kBit, as well as the musicchannels on the RTBF ensemble.

Except Musiq3, which uses 192kBit.

So, the soundquality should be ok.

If you live close to the dutch border, forget RTBF and try the NOS ensemble instead.

DAB Belgium

DAB Netherlands

[The Low Volta]

@ jadeclaw, thanks...that looks interesting...you sure know your Benelux-radiostations!

greetings, Volta

[Syrius]

At the risk of getting caught...

Musicmatch Radio+

USB to Toslink cord+

NHF 800+

Hi-SP+

SonicStage+

Hi-MD Renderer=

Bliss.

[MDGB2]

Radio (Toslink)---------------> Deck -----------------> Edit

Much easier (but unfortunately not possible with HiMD @ the moment).

Edited June 22, 2005 by MDGB2

[Latexxx]

However OT -- If you can turn a Satellite Dish round to 28 deg E. ALL the BBC domestic stations and CHANNEL 5  have been Unscrambled since June last year and are often way ahead over what's on offer  in most of Europe --No viewing card needed either --totally FTA.

←

That is nice if you happen to live in Iceland or northern France but the rest of Europe needs ridiculously large dishs (e.g. in Finland d ≈3 m) to enjoy that content.

[genghisbunny]

I have been recording DAB to minidisc optically for a few years now.  Quality is quite good (SP mode) at least on par with mp3 & LP2.  Station broadcast varies mainly between 128kbps & 192kbps.

If only there was a Hi-MD deck, as the editing and titling features of a deck are much more convenient for recording than a portable.

←

I'm hoping a deck comes out as well.

In the meantime, I use my PC for titling, etc. and do final edits on the files on PC using WAV. (Cooledit/AdobeAudition)

[imzu]

Fed up with buying "Compressed Downloaded Music" with all the DRM stuff that goes with it.

Well why not try using DAB Digital Audio Broadcasting - Radio --at least in the UK and most of W.Europe. Where I am there's about 50 stations on it currently.

←

I like your idea, but what put me off DAB was that the portable radio's are apparantly very power hungry. This is the reason that the last time I wnet shopping for a portable radio, I got a standard FM/AM PLL digital type. Am I wrong about portable DAB radios?

Other than that, a DAB and Hi-MD deck would be great thing to have especially with TiVO-style timer recording functions.

[Petter156]

Too bad DAB hasn´t kicked off here in Helsinki yet.

But I was thinking of recording some music by connecting a recorder digitally to my digital TV receiver.

[rubadubdub]

I've been looking for a timer solution to record DAB onto Hi-MD and was hoping the sychro feature on the Pure radios would work but the current HiMD MiniDisc records timeout after 5 minutes. I'm not sure how the original poster manages to record programmes.

Looks as though my prayers have been answered though as Pure have just released a DAB radio that records onto flash cards! Shame though that DAB bitrates in the UK are so poor compared to Freeview. Guess we wouldn't need to even do this if the BBC got their act together and gave us decent quality MP3s of the radio programmes - perhaps one day it will happen.

Pure Evoke-3

[zahg]

Might be worth trying to update your Pure DAB unit firmware, quite easy to do (download and run software+driver from Pure website, connect PC to DAB unit via USB and select software update from DAB menu). Did it yesterday on my Tempus-1 and got nicer fonts and a third alarm.

Although I'm quite happy with the recordings I'm making, and they sound very good on my NH900 - I was a bit dissapointed that Radio1/1extra/Kiss were all transmitting at 128k (why does only classical music on BBC get special treatment of 192k!). But you say Freeview is higher?? I never considered trying this but will do as soon as i get home tonite.

Oh and just absolutely love that I can 'fast marcRender' my recordings out of Sonicstage! And regarding Sonicstage, first time I've used this software and jumped straight into v3.2 - and its pretty bloody good IMO. Being able to skim through and extract the two or three decent tunes out of a 2 hour recording in less than 10 minutes is amazing to me!

-zahg

I've been looking for a timer solution to record DAB onto Hi-MD and was hoping the sychro feature on the Pure radios would work but the current HiMD MiniDisc records timeout after 5 minutes. I'm not sure how the original poster manages to record programmes.

Looks as though my prayers have been answered though as Pure have just released a DAB radio that records onto flash cards! Shame though that DAB bitrates in the UK are so poor compared to Freeview. Guess we wouldn't need to even do this if the BBC got their act together and gave us decent quality MP3s of the radio programmes - perhaps one day it will happen.

Pure Evoke-3

[Embio]

sorry to sound like a prat, but what is the difference between stereo and joint stereo in the BBC broadcasts?

[Meryl Arbing]

DAB has been available here in Canada since 2003 although I couldn't name one person who has even heard of it much less has a receiver to get it. When I tell people about it the usual reaction I get is..."Why would I want to pay for radio that I can get for free?"...and that is the case...all of the same AM and FM stations that anybody can pickup with a $5.00 pocket radio are being broadcast as Digital Radio. (Of course this is distinct from Satellite radio which has only recently been approved in Canada.)

I have heard the DAB broadcasts that we get here and can say that they are no better than what I can get off a standard FM radio receiver and record using the headphone jack to Mic input. It could be called BAD rather than DAB.

DAB got into trouble in Europe for claiming 'distortion free' broadcasts. It was ruled to be 'misleading advertising'

A Hard Sell

A list of all the Radio stations in Toronto and their DAB channels

Of course, do you think that the Record Industry is going to allow unrestricted copying of digital quality music?

RIAA “HD Radio” Comments to the FCC

[rauer]

Too bad DAB hasn´t kicked off here in Helsinki yet.

But I was thinking of recording some music by connecting a recorder digitally to my digital TV receiver.

Sorry to answer to this old thread but I just noticed this post. Petter, where have you been lately? YLE decided this year to drop DAB totally and use other technologies - like the DVB-T you sort of mentioned. Audio-wise it should be the same MPEG layer 2 as DAB.

[Qwakrz]

Stereo is 2 seperate signals, left & right

Join Stereo converts these 2 signals into a Mono signal and Side signal (or sometimes called stereo or difference signal). It takes advantage of the fact that most of the time the audio has similar sounds on both left & right at the same time and thus you can encode using better compression as you are only encoding one signal and a difference signal rather than 2 seperate signals. The drawback is that the side channel is usually the one that gets cut back on the most when the bitrate gets squeezed causing a slightly muffled stereo image but does not cause artifacting as much as you would get on a purely stereo encode.

If it is encoded correctly and at a high enough bitrate you will not notice the difference between S & JS. I encode all my MP3's in JS with a high bitrate (192+)

-NOTE- There are 2 versions of JS. I would imagine that the JS version DAB uses is the lossless one I mentioned above. The other version uses a Phsyco Acoustic function to reduce the bitrate even further but makes the audio sound horrid as it is a lossy conversion.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Qwakrz

[rubadubdub]

But you say Freeview is higher?? I never considered trying this but will do as soon as i get home tonite.

Yes Freeview is higher (BBC7 is stereo). I'm only really interested in recording BBC4, BBC7 and perhaps BBC2. I've used a computer based Freeview receiver (Nebula) for years to record channels but really would like a non-PC method, preferably direct to MiniDisc. I hope Pure (superb products & support) will support Freeview radio stations in future.

Perhaps one day the BBC will get additional frequencies for DAB so they can use decent bitrates - I'll never forget when BBC DAB was first started in Britain with 192kbps and no compression (sounded superb) - then they started more channels, put a woman in charge and it all went lo-fidelity.

Edited October 13, 2005 by rubadubdub

[zahg]

I only quickly tried out the line-out on my Freeview box (no optical out on my unit sadly) and the volume level was ridiculously low, didnt get round to playing with the settings to see if I could increase it. But since the mention of DVB above I have started looking in to getting my radio thru this method since the bitrates are alot better across the board. I didnt find *that much* information so any recommendations for equipment would be appreciated. It appears that DAB cannot sustain high bitrate and multiple channels - another technology thats just for the lo-fi masses!

-zahg

Yes Freeview is higher (BBC7 is stereo). I'm only really interested in recording BBC4, BBC7 and perhaps BBC2. I've used a computer based Freeview receiver (Nebula) for years to record channels but really would like a non-PC method, preferably direct to MiniDisc. I hope Pure (superb products & support) will support Freeview radio stations in future.

Perhaps one day the BBC will get additional frequencies for DAB so they can use decent bitrates - I'll never forget when BBC DAB was first started in Britain with 192kbps and no compression (sounded superb) - then they started more channels, put a woman in charge and it all went lo-fidelity.