Dawn Of A New Era - MZ-M100 Mac Compatible Hi-MD

[bobdibest]

Id agree it is a welcome development. Is PCM recording via HiMD not the non-ATRAC recording mode you mention tho? Im not a professional when it comes to home recordings so I apologise if im wrong

Id like to see a new generation of HiMD, UMD compatable devices on the market next year with large colour screens, almost like a slimmed down version of the PSP for people who wanna watch the UMD movies and listen to HiMD media without the need to play games. That would be fantastic. Imagine a walkman that is essentially the PSP with only the screen and controls on the reverse, Genius I tell you

[johnwesleybarker]

I contacted SonyStyle Europe Sales via e-mail requesting information about the Hi-MD MZ-M100, their reply directed me to phone UK Customer Information Centre on +44(0)870 5111999.

So I gave them a call. I expect it will not surprise you when I tell you that they knew nothing of the product.

[bobdibest]

Dont be daft of course they didnt, Sony internal communications is terrible. They didnt even know what the DH10P was back when I asked its release date in UK in April!! That, I belive was after the international press release. Ud think they'd be clued up at the call centre. I wudnt be surprised if they didnt know what a PSP was just because its not been released over here yet

[sallymae_hogsby]

I notice several places are selling the Mz-m100 (starting July 29th, 2005) with SoundForge editing software bundled in for an extra $100 ($499 total). Is there anything special about SoundForge?

[SHADY]

question, is it just me or is the siding that is silver on the RH10 a tinted black on this M100?

aesthetically is looks cleaner to have one uniform color.

[sallymae_hogsby]

Also, what is the difference between the MZ-M100 and the MZ-M10, besides cosmetic differences? I've read the descriptions at several places, and can't figure it out.

Tho this place: http://www.venturaes.com/index_new.asp?htt...ony/index4.html

lists "CD Radio Cassette Recorder" as an accessory for the MZ-M100...

[enriquez]

SoundForge is a powerful sound editing program. I've been using it for a number of years now and am pretty pleased with it.

[Breepee2]

Sound Forge is indeed a neat program, but there are 2 versions. The one for home use and the one for pros. Don't know about the difference actually, but you might wanna take a look into it. Try googling around.

[zerodB]

IIRC, Soundforge is NetMD (and HiMD?) compatible, so you can dowload your finished work to MD.

[reefbeef]

Although we love to slam Sony's restrictive tendencies, I think this time the ability only to upload to a MAC may have been an Apple idea. Download capability would infringe (although probably a miniscule amount) on iPod sales.

As it's set up now, Sony keeps their Atrac, Apple maintains download/player dominance.

[oddballfilms]

Hi:

I'm looking for a reasonably priced(new, used) minidisc recorder with a microphone input for making field recordings.

Ideally I'd be able to upload to my Mac but if not ok.

Any auggestions on reliable, bug-free models?

It's been quite confusing.

Thanks,

Stephen

[hobgoblin]

what will be interesting is if the mac app for uploading will be available for download and will work for older hi-md recorders...

[bobdibest]

I dont think anyone knows whether the new MAC uploaders will be bug free, but the second gen himd recorders are fantastic, and as far as im concerned, bug free. If you have a new computer which is competant then itll run sonicstage and the new integrated WAV converter no problems at all. Best would be RH10, the DH10 is more of a gimmic/music player not really a field recorder.

However if its not urgent, hold out because it looks like HiMD is going to go Professional and UMD is about to replace MD in the entertainment market so id expect more professional HiMD models to come. You know Sony always banging out an upgraded model

[sallymae_hogsby]

However if its not urgent, hold out because it looks like HiMD is going to go Professional and UMD is about to replace MD in the entertainment market so id expect more professional HiMD models to come. You know Sony always banging out an upgraded model

←

Yep! Some nice, decent, sturdy studio Hi-MD equipment! And durable field equipment. We'll pay for the quality, but if Sony makes Hi-MD "pro", it will have to stand up to pro demands.

[rediffusion]

Sorry if this a stupid question.

I haven't upgraded to Hi-MD yet. I have loads of recorded MDs in the old format. If I buy a MZ-M10 will I be able to upload these recordings to my Mac in WAV format?

thanks,

R

Edited July 27, 2005 by rediffusion

[Christopher]

No, these must be recordings made on a Hi-MD disc in PCM format.

[rediffusion]

No, these must be recordings made on a Hi-MD disc in PCM format.

←

Oh

I think I'll stick with what I have.

I'm presuming there is still no way of uploading these old recordings apart from through the line-in?

R

[atrain]

correct

[raintheory]

I dont think anyone knows whether the new MAC uploaders will be bug free, but the second gen himd recorders are fantastic, and as far as im concerned, bug free.

←

I'll agree... Except for the missing letters on my RH10... and the fact that the volume buttons periodically activate the search function.. Oh, and if I split a file on the RH10 into three parts, delete the middle, and then combine the remaining two it trashes the entire disc and displays "cannot record or play"..

Other than that it is pretty bug-free.

On topic - I am excited about the Mac uploadable recorders... Personally, can't wait to hear more about them..

[bobdibest]

cheeky cheeky

if ur himd screws you around like that id march it straight back to the shop/internet site it came from! thats quite obviously faulty and sony should exchange it no questions asked.

just read another thread about ss v3.2 with higher atrac bitrates! id put money on a range of himd (fully video compatable) coming out in 2006 with this new atrac bitrate support as well as a possible hybrid with umd! its coming sony are just taking their merry time and our well earnt money!

[raintheory]

cheeky cheeky

if ur himd screws you around like that id march it straight back to the shop/internet site it came from! thats quite obviously faulty and sony should exchange it no questions asked.

just read another thread about ss v3.2 with higher atrac bitrates! id put money on a range of himd (fully video compatable) coming out in 2006 with this new atrac bitrate support as well as a possible hybrid with umd! its coming sony are just taking their merry time and our well earnt money!

←

I apologize, I didn't mean to come across in any negative way there..

I will be sending the unit in for service/replacement probably next week. After submitting a request sony did say that the RH10 unit of mine was under an exchange program. Although they did say as well that if a replacement wasnt avail they would service the unit instead.

I'm sure the newer batches of these 2nd gen units may have some of the issues resolved, but if you search around in the forums you will see posts from quite a few users about each of these faults.

What 2nd gen unit do you use btw?

[bobdibest]

RH10, no problems at all. i do keep my gadgets nice and safe tho, my mz-e10 still doesnt have a scratch on it and its travelled globally in the 3 years (almost) ive had it!

[bobdibest]

However I do have a european rh10, maybe the US models are different somehow! cant see how tho, no region coding etc to consider!?

and now to update my psp......

Edited July 28, 2005 by bobdibest

[feralchimp]

As a Mac/PC user who's been thinking of buying a 910, and weighing MD versus relatively hassle-free (but more expensive) CompactFlash options for recording...

This is SUCH a half-assed product release on Sony's part. They finally bothered coding up a Mac-compatible version of their ultra-top-secret protocol for pulling data out of the device over USB, and what do they do? They force anyone who wants to use that software to purchase a new recorder that's ONLY available bundled with one of their microphones.

Furthermore, it's pretty obvious that the "new" hardware is just RH10 and RH910 guts with slightly different case design. So if the new Mac upload utility doesn't work with the RH10 and RH910, it's only because some marketing genius at Sony CHOSE to explicitly make the utility incompatible with the "old" models. So rather than reward their existing customers with some functionality that EVERY other recording option provides by default (basic mac support), they decided to screw everyone to cost-justify a software project that never should have been necessary in the first place.

Forcing everyone to buy it with a bundled mic just adds insult to injury. Rant over!

[atrain]

tbh i'd wait until the mac software is released to say that it doesn't work with rh10/rh910s sony has a history of giving limited info, take a look at this thread at our sister site about psp firmware.

http://www.atraclife.com/index.php?showtopic=63&hl=

[saaron]

Verrrry interesting...now if HiMD decks and car units surface I might be tempted to take the plunge.

Otherwise, I'm thinking a JE980+SCMS stripper is the best way to preserve my personal recordings.

[Syrius]

You know something, I'm thinking it is Apple, and not Sony, the one dropping the ball here. If these new units could upload ATRAC with no restrictions the way SS 3.2 allows now, in Hi-SP, it would kill the I-pod. Do you think it would benefit Apple that someone releases an uploading recorder that also plays MP3, wav in addition to ATRAC? It's not that Sony doesn't want, but Apple is just not letting them.

For once I'm glad I'm a PC user.

[bobt]

You know something, I'm thinking it is Apple, and not Sony, the one dropping the ball here. If these new units could upload ATRAC with no restrictions the way SS 3.2 allows now, in Hi-SP, it would kill the I-pod. Do you think it would benefit Apple that someone releases an uploading recorder that also plays MP3, wav in addition to ATRAC? It's not that Sony doesn't want, but Apple is just not letting them.

For once I'm glad I'm a PC user.

←

Too right, I had a chance for a few hours last night to play with an ipuddle, what a piece of crap, inane menu structure, poor sound, flimsy cables I'm glad to be a MD user.

Bob

[silence]

Too right, I had a chance for a few hours last night to play with an ipuddle, what a piece of crap, inane menu structure, poor sound, flimsy cables I'm glad to be a MD user.

Bob

←

I for one can't help to think that you do not actually own an iPod. You lose credibiltiy with comments like the one above. You might hate the product but the iPods's user interface has won award after award for it ease and intuitive design. The iPod does not come with any cables other than the headphones and the charger ones, both are top industry product for durability and manufacture quality. The iPod has over 70% of the word market in its category for a reason - quality.

[genghisbunny]

I for one can't help to think that you do not actually own an iPod.  You lose credibiltiy with comments like the one above.  You might hate the product but the iPods's user interface has won award after award for it ease and intuitive design.  The iPod does not come with any cables other than the headphones and the charger ones, both are top industry product for durability and manufacture quality.  The iPod has over 70% of the word market in its category for a reason - quality.

←

Apple has a history of bad user interface design which wins awards.

"Pretty" does not equate to usable. The quicktime interface has been in so many user interface halls of shame it's not funny - yet it's won awards for its interface (from sites and bodies that use visual appeal as the prime determiner)

In terms of IPOD UI, it's a terrible user interface made bearable by the clever use of the click wheel. Without the wheel (which is the element which has won awards) Apple would not have sold any IPODs, because no-one would be able to get through its arcane menu structures.

Yes, I have used IPODs lots of times. I elected not to buy one in part because of the bad user interface.

[t0fler]

In terms of IPOD UI, it's a terrible user interface made bearable by the clever use of the click wheel.  Without the wheel (which is the element which has won awards) Apple would not have sold any IPODs, because no-one would be able to get through its arcane menu structures.

Yes, I have used IPODs lots of times.  I elected not to buy one in part because of the bad user interface.

←

mmmm, i dont really see how you can say that, the ipod UI is very very simple, i sold mine because of the fact i had 3 die on me in the space of 2 years.

you could argue that the software UI is terrible, but that doesn't matter because the clickwheel makes it so usable, which is kind of the point.

which is also why apple have sold so many million of them

i also dont think there are any MDs with a customisable menu, the ipod UI lets you select which options are relevant to you and they are the ones shown

mds are superior in many ways but how many mds can find a specific song and play it with 2 pushes of a button.

for genghisbunny in case he doesnt remember from the main menu you click songs, use the scroll wheel to find the song, then press play.

stephen

Edited August 1, 2005 by t0fler

[oivindi]

Apple has a history of bad user interface design which wins awards.

"Pretty" does not equate to usable.  The quicktime interface has been in so many user interface halls of shame it's not funny - yet it's won awards for its interface (from sites and bodies that use visual appeal as the prime determiner)

In terms of IPOD UI, it's a terrible user interface made bearable by the clever use of the click wheel.  Without the wheel (which is the element which has won awards) Apple would not have sold any IPODs, because no-one would be able to get through its arcane menu structures.

Yes, I have used IPODs lots of times.  I elected not to buy one in part because of the bad user interface.

←

Yes, arcane menu-structure, indeed. Built like a tree, with branches going out from the trunk. Like most other operating systems in the world, including Windows and Unix and what-not. That certainly is arcane. You get a list of artists, and following each artist you get a list of their albums. Then the tracks on a particular album. How anyone can label anything as simple and intuitive as that for "arcane" is certainly worth thinking about for a minute or two.

Sure, nothing beats the menu-structure of my Sony NH1. You have umpteen different menus, and Sony has even chosen not to remember certain settings every time you turn the thing off. I have had an iPod for a long time, and I have had the NH1 for while. Nothing beats the iPod in terms of menu structure. It's brilliantly simple, but please tell me exactly what you find so "arcane" about it. I really want to know, especially when considering that all the people who have picked up my iPod for the last two years have basically figured it out within seconds. Perhaps my people are just too damn clever?

And bad sound quality, like someone said? Please. You can put AIFF-files on the thing, and with a pair of Sennheiser HD280s on your ears the sound is crispy, dynamic and clear. I have even tried some pretty demanding electroacoustic stuff on it (Jonty Harrison), and for a thing that costs not so much, but offers 60GB of storage, you'd have to be a grumpy Sony fanboy to diss it - and quite the purist, to be honest.

Sony has SO much to learn from Apple. That much I know after using SonicStage and the NH1 (for field recording) for the last six months.

Edited August 2, 2005 by oivindi

[bobt]

On the NH1 you can select from album artist or song, go to what you want and press enter, that quick. ipuddle nowhere near.

NH1 looks great, ipuddle what looks.

IMHO

Bob

[genghisbunny]

Sorry to have dragged this thread so far off-topic.

Give someone an iPod and 3 minutes and ask them to show you how to turn the backlight on and off - give someone the rh10 and 12 seconds. See who gets farther.

I have never been impressed with Apple's UI design, and far less so after having studied the discipline in University.

Apple are a great marketing company. It's just a shame that their little electronics and computer divisions don't do as high quality work as the marketing company they're part of.

'nuff said.

BACK ON TOPIC:

I think it's great that they're doing some mac-compatible MDs, because the 3 to 4 percent of the market that use macs includes some professional recording studios, and a fair few hobby musicians (whoever can afford one who likes them).

I think "re-imagining" the Hi-MD for what it's best at - e.g., live recording - will help to reinvigorate the product.

I just wish Sony would do some marketing. God knows apple never sold ipods on word of mouth, the way Sony seems to with MDs.

And by the way, I'd imagine a firmware difference will be the only change (apart from the bundled CD and microphone) between these and the rh10/rh910. So I'm sure the community will hack the older, less expensive ones to work on macs with the new mac software.

I personally use the much higher-quality ECM-MS907 microphone for live recordings, so I'm not a big fan of "bundling" cheaper microphones with gear and charging extra for it. That's what Sony Australia do, and it really hurts them in the AU market. Hopefully this is not a sign of things to come.

Edited August 3, 2005 by genghisbunny

[oivindi]

On the NH1 you can select from album artist or song, go to what you want and press enter, that quick. ipuddle nowhere near.

NH1 looks great, ipuddle what looks.

IMHO

Bob

←

I know this is off-topic, but this is getting ridiculous. I'm wondering if some of you have even tried the iPod.

I turn on my iPod. I go to Artist, Radiohead, "Kid A". Press Play. Music is playing.

Or I can include "Albums" in the main menu. Turn on my iPod. Go to Albums, choose "Kid A", press Play. We're talking seconds.

If you are trying to make *that* into a cumbersome feature, please tell me how *you* would organize this particular matter. Are you saying that there is a quicker or more intuitive way to locate a particular album from a particular artist? If so, I'm sure a lot of UI-designers out there would love to find out about it.

[oivindi]

Sorry to have dragged this thread so far off-topic. 

Give someone an iPod and 3 minutes and ask them to show you how to turn the backlight on and off - give someone the rh10 and 12 seconds.  See who gets farther.

I'll give them an hour with my NH1, and ask them to find the backlight on the unit itself. They'll never find it, because it doesn't have one. I'll then ask them to play tracks randomly. That should also take them some time.

You can make the light on the iPod turn and and off automatically. It's very easy.

I have never been impressed with Apple's UI design, and far less so after having studied the discipline in University.

That doesn't matter. Gazillions of people have managed to get their head around the iPod in a matter of minutes. It's UI has been praised by reviewers and non-Apple-users all over the world. It's been hailed as an excellent way of making an UI by a LOT of people. Whether or not you didn't come to the same conclusion during your studies is irrelevant.

My father bought his first Mac five years ago. An iMac. He was editing videos about fifteen minutes after turning it on. That speaks volumes about Apple's UI design.

Apple are a great marketing company.

No, they are a great COMPUTER company. You seem to imply that there's some kind of Orwellian world out there, where people are being tricked into using an inferior product because the company is a "great marketing company". You simply can't trick people into using an inferior product. It's not possible. Maybe for a year or two, but not for ten or twenty. Your claim so far out that it could've been an episode of X-files. Or it could've been made by a Windows user.

It's just a shame that their little electronics and computer divisions don't do as high quality work as the marketing company they're part of.

I would like you to qualify that claim. What, exactly, is inferior about their electronics? You can argue that their machines are priced too high, but please - tell me what's *inferior* about them? Please tell me, also, what's inferior about their operating system?

I think "re-imagining" the Hi-MD for what it's best at - e.g., live recording - will help to reinvigorate the product.

It won't. Live recording is a tiny, tiny part of the entire digital recording/player market, and this move by Sony to finally (after how many years?) make the MD Mac-"compatible" (you can only upload analogue PCM recordings) will have very little effect on the market as a whole - if noticeable at all. People are generally just angry because Sony have decided to introduce two new "Mac-models", instead of making old(er) MDs Mac-compatible.

I just wish Sony would do some marketing.  God knows apple never sold ipods on word of mouth, the way Sony seems to with MDs.

You certainly are delusional. I can guarantee you that Apple's been selling millions of iPods on word of mouth! Here in Norway, there's been very, VERY little marketing of the iPod in terms of ads and such. But it's been talked about, and Norway is one of the countries with the largest number of iPods per capitae in the world.

And you can seldom argue with word of mouth, because that means people recommend it to friends and family because they LIKE it - not because they've been "tricked" into it by a clever "marketing company".

And by the way, I'd imagine a firmware difference will be the only change (apart from the bundled CD and microphone) between these and the rh10/rh910.  So I'm sure the community will hack the older, less expensive ones to work on macs with the new mac software.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Sony are notorious for making life difficult in terms of their rigid copy protection schemes, and there is very little evidence that this will change dramatically soon.

Edited August 3, 2005 by oivindi

[DrSiddons]

- - - - Has anyone seen the new Mac software yet?

[SHADY]

No, they are a great COMPUTER company. You seem to imply that there's some kind of Orwellian world out there, where people are being tricked into using an inferior product because the company is a "great marketing company". You simply can't trick people into using an inferior product. It's not possible. Maybe for a year or two, but not for ten or twenty. Your claim so far out that it could've been an episode of X-files. Or it could've been made by a Windows user.

umm ... everyone gets tricked into using inferior products (vhs/betamax and vhs is still being sold so that would make it alomst 30 it was introduced in 1976 and it was an INFERIOR product so thats my first point). The iPod is an inferior product and millions have been tricked. I will qualify this statement like this, look at a MD Recorder, it is in many ways better than an iPod save for the capcity of the storage medium (on hand, but if i buy 61 HiMD's I win on that but then i loose in terms of size(portability) and how much money I have spent), and ill give you the benefit of the doubt and say the UI may be better (with the scroll whee) and thats where it ends. Having all your music with you so that you have the option of listening to it is an error on all those who use iPods and have been fed this lie, im sure you would like to know what im talking about well, its very simple having 60gb of music with you and only being able to listen to 15hrs (and im being GENEROUS with that number) the ability to listen to "ALL" you music dimishes, so the fact that you have the option is null becuse when your battery dies those options that you have with your VAST library are now zero. However apple was able to convince the world that "having it with you, is better than listening to it". If apple could get its sh!t strate and instead "upgrading" to a color screen in a device for listening to music and focus on getting the battery life ANYWHERE CLOSE to being able to listen to 1/10 of said library (60gb @ ~15000 songs * ~3mins = ~45000mins/60mins = 750hrs/10 = 75hr batt life, which by all accounts would be reasonable) so when i can only listen to 1/50 (750/15 = 50) of my library yes that makes this iPod of yours an INFERIOR product. Just becuase you have 15000 songs doesnt mean you can listen to them whenever you choose. If I can only listen to 1 in every 50 songs without having to worry about my next charge thats assinine. To assume I would take such a loss just for the sake of saying I have my entire music collection with me is limited. I dont know about you but i wouldnt pay $450 for a product that doesnt provide as much music as another format and then PROCLAIM its NOT inferior.

ps: btw the argument about the nh1 not having a back light on the unit is moot, they provide an extrodinary remote with the unit so that your not always pulling in/out of your pocket risking dropping your unit or unecessary scratches to your unit ... on the same hand i could ask an ignorant question like yours such as "wheres your screen on your remote so you know what song your playing or how to move through your precious little menus?" but i wont because everything has design flaws and with the few options we have its rediculous to harp on minute flaws

Edited August 3, 2005 by SHADY

[atrain]

watch the handbags please.

i own an ipod, a vaio pocket & some netmds they all have uses although the ipod is the least practical. fan boy brand loyalty is a subject that's been hammered around here so keep the discussion, if not friendly, at least only semi-sarcastic.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

MD recorders and iPod players are like apples and oranges. Anyway, has anybody heard anything new about the Mac upload software? I use both platforms - it sure would come in handy.

Cheers