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can someone clear things up for me:

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Alexx

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1411 KBPS is an ATRAC3+ but is also used in CDs and WAVs

they are 100% pure

352 KBPS is an ATRAC3+ "lossless". How can this be if CD music is recorded @ 1411 kbps

292 is ATRAC Its lossy, but very very good. Infact some say it's better than 256

256 ATRAC 3+ Is a lossy compression: but is very good.

the new sonic stage has enhanced / improved all the other bitrates

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No, you don't have any ATRAC3+ at 1411kbps - it's uncompressed PCM.

352kbps is ATRAC3+, but not lossless.

You may be thinking of the new lossless variants that has two parts, each file has a lossless and a lossy part. The lossy part gives the name to the codec, and it's the lossy part that is transferred to your Hi-MD. The lossless part is (mainly) used for playing music on your computer.

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ATRAC is audio compression algorithm. Another one is MP3 and another one ACC (iPods) for example. There are different version of ATRAC as it was improved over the years. ATRAC1, ATRAC3, ATRAC3, ATRAC3+. From that you will see that ATRAC3+ is the latest one.

Most common ATRAC3+ bitrates are

352kps

256kps (HiSP)

64kps (HiLP

PCM is not a ATRAC format and is an uncompressed format of the same quality as a CD. WAV is more or less the same. HiMD can also play and record this format. But it has nothing to do with ATRAC.

These might be helpful..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATRAC

or

http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html#_q93

Edited by Sparky191
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1411 KBPS is an ATRAC3+ but is also used in CDs and WAVs

they are 100% pure

It's PCM, but in an OpenMG header, if that makes sense. So it's just like a WAV file, or the data from your CD. But wrapped in all the same compression and file-type nonsense that ATRAC3+ files are in. And yes you're right, it's uncompressed. Lossless.

292 is ATRAC Its lossy, but very very good. Infact some say it's better than 256
292 is the old SP mode on normal MD. You can't use it with SonicStage, and on 2nd generation HiMD models. Some prefer the old SP sound to HiSP 256 ATRAC 3+ because of the colour it adds to the sound, but in reality HiSP is pretty much the same as SP in terms of quality. Perhaps one is infitessimly better than the other, but if you can check it, you must have good ears.
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I'm using 352k in my recordings these days, but just to be 'on the safe side'. Really speaking for portable use there is little practical difference between 352k and 256k. At home with decent headphones I often imagine I can tell the difference, but I dont have any 'scientific' data to back that up...

SP (292k) is mostly relevent for older (non-Hi-MD) MD units and was the best quality available on minidisc until last year. Like 352k it's practically indistinguishable from an original CD if recorded 'realtime' and digitally. 1st generation Hi-MD units could play and record in realtime to SP, though the latest Hi-MDs can only play back SP. As SP is (sadly) not downloadable, the Sony network walkmans can't play SP at all...

Edited by KJ_Palmer
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can anyone tell the diffrence between 352, old 292 or modern 256?

Well I can. But its not much of a difference. HiSP (256) is good enough and so much easier to manage via SS and HiMD that its not worth the hassle of using 352 or 292. In my opinion anyway. Some people are happy with 64kps.

Edited by Sparky191
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One thing I have never understood about PCM/WAV is why it is "uncompressed"

As it is 1411kbps, wouldn't 2000kbps sound better? Or even 1412kbps?

Also whats's the business with 44.1khz and 48khz would 200Khz be better than the lot?

Sorry if I'm a little over simplified on these things, but why is Wav 1411kbps 44.1khz the defacto uncompressed?

Cheers

Pug

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it is (as greenmachine said) just a case of chosen standards...

at one time the CD-audio specs got accepted as standards for audio... and as far as I understand it every codec that:

- tries to keep the same sound (accoustic transparancy) while reducing the bitrate (and data) is called lossy as it ditches data/info which isn't 'really heard'... of course the (sound) quality can vary enormously by the bitrate and the codec used (wma < MP3 @ the same bitrate and 48kbps<320kbps)

- keeps the exacte same data (and thus sound quality) is called lossless like PCM and wav which are uncompressed and take up the exact same space as the track would on an audio CD

Then there are some compressed lossless formats (like monkeyaudio, flac, wavepack,...) that save space by means of data compression (somewhat like 'zip') which means that they do not remove stuff that is supposedly inaudible, but they use repetition and other things in the raw data patterns (so '11111111111111111111' becomes '20x1') to simplify/shorten data... this type of codec really requires decoding before being playable, but this could even be done in a portable DAP (some models can play flac for example)

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I thought WMAs were of BETTER quality than mp3s?

The lowest MP3 you can really listen to is 128kbps

where as WMAs (like atrac) arse acceptable down to 64

well... I must admit that I haven't really used a lot of codecs for more than just small tests and even then I never used anything under 128kbps...ever

but as I understood it from other (more knowledgable :P ) ppl, WMA is quite ok at lower bitrates, but once we enter the bitrate levels in which you actually want to listen to music (so 128+ and more like 256 etc.) it starts to fail, whereas a good encoded (lame) VBR MP3 with a avarage bitrate the same as the WMA sounds better by far...

then again, this is somewhat speculation on my side, as I actually only use HiSP for listening (haven't got an MP3 player or something and no PC-music-library) and PCM/HiSP to record

all in all I simply used it as an illustration of my explanation...please feel free to fill in the correct coedcs according to your taste while reading :P

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