ro0tz Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 First off, I am only talking about sound quality, and overall build quality, nothing more nothing less.How does an NW-HD5 (hdd unit, 20gb) compare to a high-end HiMD (think MZ-RH10) on the front of quality?Do they have identical sound quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 None of the MD players have Digital Sound Preset like HD5.But i don`t think there must be difference in the sound quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Hmmm, sounds good.Because the thing is, I really like MD-devices, but I am not interested in the recording aspect.And now I can get my hands on a NW-HD5 really cheap, like 75 € cheaper than an MZ-RH10...All good, but I want to make sure that the sound quality is atleast as good as the HiMD-devices And gapless output with Atrac3/Plus codec too I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 And gapless output with Atrac3/Plus codec too I assume?Yes ...to listen songs in gapless mode it is better to rip cd in one go in Atrac format . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiesto Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 About sound quality, it's difficult to say which is better. The HD5 has Digital Sound Preset but some HiMD players have a HD amp, so from my experience I can say for sure that both delivery excellent sound. About the built quality, I can say that my HD5 is better because its body is metallic unlike the NH900 with plastic in the back which is getting colorless on the corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Hmmm this sounds like good news.Well I found a brand new NW-HD5, the silver version, in a local store for 195 €, which seems like a pretty good deal to me.For example the cheapest I can get an MZ-RH10 for is 265 €.One last question, I once owned a Creative Zen Micro for a few weeks, it had a micro-hdd, and the hdd made very annoying high-tone noises, and spinning noises, especially at the beginning of a songchange, do the sony-hdd players have this problem too?Because I find this very annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiesto Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 You cant hear any noise at all from the hard drive, unless you are in a very quite place. When you grab the HD5 and operate it you can feel its drive working. Well if you end up buying the HD5, I recommend you to look for the Sony RM-MC40ELK remote control, it is the best accessory for HD5 as well as for the HiMD players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culp4684 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) I have an NW-HD5 and two Hi-MD units (NH1, EH930). I also recently bought a pair of Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro's which are an extremely sensitive set of IEM's.I've noticed when listening to the HD5, a slight hiss. It's very low, but clearly audible. I've gotten used to it, but for some individuals it might make a difference. I do not notice that same hiss when listening to the same material on a Hi-MD unit. I'm not quite sure if that means there is something lacking about the HD5 or maybe its just reproducing the imperfections of the original material better than the Hi-MD units.I'd be real interested in knowing if anyone else has noticed this. The UE's are rated at 117db sensitivity, which is pretty high even for IEM's. Edited March 25, 2006 by culp4684 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 One last question, I once owned a Creative Zen Micro for a few weeks, it had a micro-hdd, and the hdd made very annoying high-tone noises, and spinning noises, especially at the beginning of a songchange, do the sony-hdd players have this problem too?Because I find this very annoying.I never heard hard drive noise until i put the player close to my ear .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veezhun Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 build quality of hd5 is better than that of the 2nd gen Hi Md recoders. these scratch easily. also, my rh10 allows 5 band eq even with mp3 files. its another story that mp3 playback is crippled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 I'm not interested in mp3 support, I only do HiSP Atrac3Plus.Hmmm I'm a little worried about that hiss culp4684 is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Remember that all HD players have 2 severe limitations.1) Hard Disks consume a lot more power than solid state or MD devices so play back time will either be considerably less or you'll have to have bigger, bulkier (and uglier) battery packs.2) Hard Disks are really quite fragile pieces of kit and anybody whos'e ever used a computer knows only too well that they DO fail at times and a computer disk won't be subjected to knocks and bangs like a portable player will above all if you use this type of gear while jogging etc.I don't think sound wise there will be much if anything in it provided you can get the music on to your HD player at a decent bit rate but of course if the disk gets broken then the sound quality will be "Nil".Another possible drawback is you are totally dependent on using computers to get music in to your player. When you buy a new one you'll have to copy the library again etc etc.For me that's just too much of a hassle --say I'm recording (timed) from satellite radio I can just pop a MD into my unit, go away and do something else and when I come back it's all done. You've got virtually unlimited storage.A 40 GB HD player can seem like a HUGE amount but once you start recording at anything like a decent bit rate you'll be surprised how quickly a HD fills up.OK the original post was about Sound quality but I do think before you buy any piece of gear you should also be aware of the pros and cons of it.Cheers-K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Well I have borrowed the NW-HD5 from a friend, and I'm not very impressed by the hissing sound...How in the bloody hell can it be that this player has lesser sound quality than my ancient Sony MZ-N510 @ LP2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disso Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) If you've just got Atrac playback in mind and your looking for a HD player, id recommend the Sony hd1 over the hd5. The build quality is excellent, its basicly a nh1 with a hdd (magnesium case, jap made). One other thing is its dead sexy.http://productimages.sony-europe.com/IM_NW-HD1.jpgCheers, Disso Edited March 25, 2006 by disso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Well now that I have heard the not-so-fantastic sound quality of the NW-HD5 I think I will either stick to my good old NetMD, or upgrade to a HiMD (RH910/RH10/RH1) soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) First off all Hard disk & flash based players are really different then MD players & I don`t agree to buy a HD1 which doesn` t even comes with mp3 compatibity(UNTIL YOU SEND IT TO SONY SERVICE STATION FOR A FIRMWARE UPGRADE )..HD5 has removable Lith-Ion battery which HD1 doesn`t have ..also tranfer rates are HD players going to much higher than the MD players ..I know i will get DH10P & RH1 in some days but i will never leave my hard disk player ..Note:I don`t want to disscus this further if anyone wants to know the further about Sony Hard disk players please visit http://www.atraclife.com Edited March 25, 2006 by stuge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muso Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 I think the HD5 is alright. You can (VERY SLIGHTLY) hear the spin up of the disc sometimes in the headphones I'm sure, this seems worse when connected to mains for interest. The sound quality otherwise seems as good as the RH10 just about (I think the RH10 packs out a louder slightly better sound to my ears). Obviously as Stuge says the transfer times are completely different. Some have said Sonicstage is slower than some but I've found the transfer rate pretty high (much more than the RH10). And the build quality seems much much better than the RH10 to me.Hope this helps! JC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiesto Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) Well I have borrowed the NW-HD5 from a friend, and I'm not very impressed by the hissing sound...How in the bloody hell can it be that this player has lesser sound quality than my ancient Sony MZ-N510 @ LP2?Huh?... what kind of headphones did you use to test it? what bitrate did you play? what sound setting did you use? For me, it's impossible to think in such statement. My NF610 sounds good but not that good as my HD5, besides the latter plays back high bitrates. Well that's just my opinion. Edited March 25, 2006 by Tiesto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culp4684 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Like I said, the hissing sound was clearly audible to me when I used the UE Super.fi 5 Pro IEM's. I have listened to my HD5 with Koss Portapros and Shure E2C's and the hissing is not there. The UE's are way more sensitive than most 'phones.I still use the HD5/UE combo quite a bit. The noise does not destort the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 I had the hissing sound with my Creative EP-630 in-ear headphones...Was quite annoying.My NetMD with the same headphones has no hissing at all, and it sounds much "warmer", don't really know how to explain it...The NW-HD5 sound quality is definitely better than the iPod 4G and Creative Zen Micro that I've tested before, but still no match for an MD device it seems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamewing Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) Remember that all HD players have 2 severe limitations.1) Hard Disks consume a lot more power than solid state or MD devices so play back time will either be considerably less or you'll have to have bigger, bulkier (and uglier) battery packs.2) Hard Disks are really quite fragile pieces of kit and anybody whos'e ever used a computer knows only too well that they DO fail at times and a computer disk won't be subjected to knocks and bangs like a portable player will above all if you use this type of gear while jogging etc.I don't think sound wise there will be much if anything in it provided you can get the music on to your HD player at a decent bit rate but of course if the disk gets broken then the sound quality will be "Nil".Another possible drawback is you are totally dependent on using computers to get music in to your player. When you buy a new one you'll have to copy the library again etc etc.For me that's just too much of a hassle --say I'm recording (timed) from satellite radio I can just pop a MD into my unit, go away and do something else and when I come back it's all done. You've got virtually unlimited storage.A 40 GB HD player can seem like a HUGE amount but once you start recording at anything like a decent bit rate you'll be surprised how quickly a HD fills up.OK the original post was about Sound quality but I do think before you buy any piece of gear you should also be aware of the pros and cons of it.Cheers-KThe HD5 has g-protection to protect the HD against falls. Also, the chance of a hard drive failure is no greater than the chance of an optical block failing on a minidisc.The minidisc can record versus a HD player using a computer. This is true, but this shows the difference between the purposes of the devices. Also, the Cowon X5L can record line-in (analog) in up to 320kbps mp3 format. There are others that do this too. Overall, the use of a computer is pretty much standard issue, unless you are recording live, and this applies to HiMD as well. Edited March 25, 2006 by lamewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury_in_flames Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 I dont get any of that hiss thing on my hd5, as culp said, its what 'phones you use. I have sony ex81's and they are fine for my portable listening needs.MD and mp3 are two completely different things. The one thing mp3 has over md is that you can have ALL of your music on one device. The hd5 has sound that is easily on par with net md. (i have a mz-n910 and an r909 also). I never use my md for portable listening just because its more bulk and the hassle of carrying discs. If you are a commuter and only need one disc a day then ok, but if you want all your music, or a huge amount of it, watever, get the mp3. The reason why i didnt get himd was because I never record and I have heard a fair bit about disc errors with 1 gig discs, and a bit about mp3's sounding pooish when played back on a himd portable. Just my two cents.On that other note also, I have had my hd5 for almost a year now, i even got a dent in the back made it freeze twice by riding my bike with it in my pocket etc, and its still fine. Honestly how long do you want it to last anyway? We get tired of the things we buy these days long before two years is up.Also the hd5 has a removable battery, which happens to be roughly the same size as a blank minidisc, albeit as heavy as 3 discs or something. I charge my hd5 once every 2 to 4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) The HD5 has g-protection to protect the HD against falls. Also, the chance of a hard drive failure is no greater than the chance of an optical block failing on a minidisc.Even so a HD player WILL fail out in the field. It's still a relatively fragile device. If your MD device fails however you can just pop your MD into another unit. No re-recording etc etc.I've never in over 10 years ever had an actual Minidisc itself fail they are almost indestructable but if it did you've only lost one disk.I think it comes down to what you prefer.For the maximum flexibility you really can't beat a MD.Slightly off topic if you get downloaded music (I avoid it like the plague due to ussually poor quality high compression and DRM issues) your player might have all sorts of problems on whether it can actually handle the format.I see in France there's a court case pending forcing Apple to open up it's music store so other devices can play. This could be an interesting twist to the whole DRM crud.A great thing with MD as well is that you can share the stuff with colleagues. Just give them a minidisc to play on their gear.With your HD device you've got to lend them the whole device or find some way of transferring the file which may or may not (usually for downloaded purchased music) be possible.Cheers-K Edited March 26, 2006 by 1kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 With your HD device you've got to lend them the whole device or find some way of transferring the file which may or may not (usually for downloaded purchased music) be possible.This usually happen with Sony Hard disk players but Xispes GYm has really helped to atleast get our mp3`s back from our Sony HDD players &Even H-Md renderer helps to take out the Atrac file directly from Network walkman thanks to Marc for this ..But this problem doesn`t occurs with X5LBut can I ask you something how many times are you going to lend your music to your friend ???I only do this once in two months or so I`m still not convinced that Md player are better & more portable than Hard disk players.There is still few more years for MD to live..(I`m happy about that )As in few years from now on we might see Flash based player with 8-10 gb space which will also replace hard disk players & Hope Sony will intoduce recording features as well in these then i`m sure people will have different things to say then.Like here in India there is a lot of Dust around & I have to clean my NE900 lens every week to use it ..Just b`coz of this problem i left the cd players ..I`m sure i will have the same problem Md players as well .Don`t worry any device which falls on the hard surface is going to die sometime ..Many people here don`t want to say that HDD is also really good (only people whu say they are good have used HDD player before with the MD player )It`s is easier for me to access large music on the go with Hard disk player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Twist and turn it any way you like, there is not a single mp3 player that has better quality than a mid/highrange MD player.I've used an iPod, a Creative Zen Micro, a Sony NW-HD5 and an iAudio X5v,and none of those comes close to the sound quality of a Sony MD device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veezhun Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 md records amazingly well. no other portable solution comes close for sheer ease of use and low cost for portable recording. if people here use the md for recording, this discussion would not take place.the HDD players are excellent, but they have a different purpose altogether. personally, its futile to compare these 2 devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 ro0tz,Ok don`t buy any of the hdd player any available in the market ..As i`m gonna buy RH1 only for recording purpose nothing else ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 I agree in the future for all sorts of reasons Solid state devices will probably take over --but only if they are REMOVABLE and relatively cheap.For a portable recording format where you really don't know how long you are going to have to record or how many times you might have to do a session you really do need to have some type of removable format (especially if you are recording at a high bit rate).For this reason MD will STILL be around for a few years yet.You could argue till the cows come home as to whether a portable HD device is good, bad or indifferent.For a lot of people who just want to play portable music (and a lot of it) then a HD player may suffice.As far as quality goes pretty well any player you can get these days is capable of yielding passable quality --But only AND ONLY IF the music has been recorded from a decent source in the first place and apart from DRM issues I don't consider ANY online downloadable music store as providing anything even remotely as good quality as "an old fashioned CD" provided of course the CD was decently mastered in the studio in the first place - not always true these days as there is also some terrible junk around. Most MP3's sound pretty horrible -- not because of the mp3 format per se but usually people either start with a pretty compressed shitty source or the encoding algorithm used is not good or the bit rate is far too low.There's no reason for a HD player to sound inferior to the MD device --although I'd expect the new RH1 to be at the top of the heap as it's more geared to the top end of the market where people are usually a bit more choosy.So the answer to the original posters question is "Yes a HD player *can* have as good quality sound as an MD but whether you will be able to get that sound quality depends on your music source.Cheers-K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 The mp3 files that I tested those hdd players with, came from the recommended LAME binaries, with the recommended settings, all info from hydrogenaudio.Ripped with the highest possible settings, all with high quality equipment.And still it sounded worse than a decent MD device using Atrac3/Atrac3Plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hombre Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 First off, I am only talking about sound quality, and overall build quality, nothing more nothing less.How does an NW-HD5 (hdd unit, 20gb) compare to a high-end HiMD (think MZ-RH10) on the front of quality?Do they have identical sound quality?From my experience no. I have both units and I like MZ-RH10 better.1. I can't pinpoint it but I think that the MD players sounds better.2. The build of the HD-5 id solid and makes less noise than that of the RH-10.If I had my drothers I would choose the RH-10. I only have the HD-5 because I am on the road quite a bit. I need to carry alot of music with me because my taste change on a daily basis. It sounds good but, not as good as the RH-10. The RH-10 is easier to create playlist and move tracts were you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro0tz Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 From my experience no. I have both units and I like MZ-RH10 better.1. I can't pinpoint it but I think that the MD players sounds better.2. The build of the HD-5 id solid and makes less noise than that of the RH-10.If I had my drothers I would choose the RH-10. I only have the HD-5 because I am on the road quite a bit. I need to carry alot of music with me because my taste change on a daily basis. It sounds good but, not as good as the RH-10. The RH-10 is easier to create playlist and move tracts were you want them.Well, I totally agree with you.The HD-5 seems a very decent quality machine, it feels very sturdy, but if sound quality is the goal, I prefer an MD device.And I'm not on the road that much, so I am very satisfied with 1gb discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Wish you'd all drop the HD vs MD discussion its been done to death. Re: SQ The hiss problem is well documented on the web. For me personally while the HD5 is nice format physically, I prefer the older HD1/3. Though I'd avoid them all due to the hissing issue, and the HD5 suffers from the buttons cracking, also reported widely. I only use SS for transfers to and from HiMD and its fine for that. But to manage a 20GB+ library I find it lacking. All in all I wouldn't get one. Taking everything (SQ, accessories, support, features etc) into account the 5G iPod is one of the best HD DAPs around, and the SQ is up there with the rest. Re: SQ, My HiMD sounds better then pre 5G ipods and many other devices including discman. But its not as good as my iPod Shuffle, Zen Micro or a 5G. IMO of course since everything it's based on personal subjective opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamewing Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Even so a HD player WILL fail out in the field. It's still a relatively fragile device. If your MD device fails however you can just pop your MD into another unit. No re-recording etc etc.-KA HD player "WILL" fail in the field? Nonsense. I have take an HD based player to the field (ie in the army) and even in the harsh conditions it did wonderfully. WILL fail is a bit overdoing it, don't you think? I have had 2 MD unit break on me (one in the field) based on the simple fact that you have to open them up. It doesn't take much to damage one once dirt or sand is in it.In the end they are about equal in regards to reliability.The comment about just putting the disc in another unit is rather hard to swallow. If it is that reliable, you probably aren't going to have anohter unit with you. Also, try FINDING another MD unit, at a moments notice!Once again, they are about equal in reliability. For day to day use, they are also about the same. I use both and each has its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Another point about the Sony HD DAPS is they one of the very few to do gapless, same as HiMD. Most HD DAPs can't do gapless. Personally I don't mind the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Good one "lamewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury_in_flames Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I dont know, i can say that with md the sound might be a bit fuller, but only if im listening really hard. I think the whole atrac 256 on hd5 sounds like crap next to SP on md is bull. scuse.I also aggree with lamewing ^^, ive had my r909 give me plenty of 'no disc' errors in its time. At least with the hd5 if its broken its broken. there arent loads of different issues that can cause faulty behavior. Unlike, dirty lense, magnetic block recording head busted, battery door going bust. There are flaws for both i guess. The only thing flaw i have with the hd5 is that it isnt as quick to start up as md.again, im looking at both as playback devices, ignoring the fact that md records.oh and I aggree with sparky here, this thread is a bit of a waste of time. The answer is simple, choose an hdd device if you want all your music no matter what sound quality you think is 'the best'. choose md, if you want to be able to record, if you think it sounds better etc.Also if you dont know what to get, get a second hand md first. Then get an hdd after and see how you feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamewing Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) Good one "lamewing I wish I was wrong and that we (here in the U.S.) could just pick up a new unit at the local electronics store. As of last month...1. Circuit City - No2. Best Buy - No.3. Fry's - Nope ... and they used to carry a fairly large collection. Heck all Fry's carries now are flash players and a wide range of iPods.4. Target - None.5. Wal-mart - don't know, as I never shop there (ick)6. Ultimate Electronics (now defunct) - never carried anything more than a S1.Minidisc is pretty much dead here in the States, except as a recording medium, and then you have to buy online. Has anyone had better luck? I live in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex (4+ million) and we are minidisc-less. As of now, I am using a Cowon X5L and a Creative Microphoto as my players. The new "3rd gen" model is my next recording purchase(s). Edited March 28, 2006 by lamewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culp4684 Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) I just saw the NH600 (two of them, actually) hanging on a hook in the Sears store in Toms River, NJ, yesterday. They still had the old $199 price tags on them!Also, a few weeks ago a saw an NH1 in a case at Palace Electronics at the Freehold Raceway Mall.Those both have to be real rare situations, though... Edited March 28, 2006 by culp4684 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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