RH1 Amplifier vs. Ipod's

[aminadab]

I really want the RH1 to be able to replace my ipod. I'm OK with less music -- I think having too much sometimes is, well, too much! I'm in for quality over quantity. Is the headphone amp in the RH1 as good/worse/better than the ipod's? Any comments regarding the RH1's replacing an ipod? I'm really after its recording functions, but I really don't want to haul both around when I go abroad this summer.

[atrain]

minidisc units traditionally have a weaker amp than the ipods, this is more evident when driving headphones than in sound quality however.

[dogville]

minidisc units traditionally have a weaker amp than the ipods, this is more evident when driving headphones than in sound quality however.

Would you be so kind to explain that a bit more?. I don't quite understand what you mean.

Edited May 18, 2006 by dogville

[Stuge]

Would you be so kind to explain that a bit more?. I don't quite understand what you mean.

I think he mean say that Sony players out put is 5mW(for both )Left& right which is quite lower then I-pods ..

[watcher666]

Well as for quality wise MiniDisc is far superior!

I have a 5g ipod video and all my music on it is encoded in AAC 320kbps.

It sounds excellent except when you then compare it to a copy made on me trusty old JB940 in SP mode!!! The minidisc version has more drive and just sounds more alive!

If im talking utter bo**ocks please correct me!

[alexis]

My opinion is that the choice between iPod and Hi-MD depends on three things:

* your listening habits

* your character towards computers

* how you use your iPod/Hi-MD

If you use your device it as a portable music library and for home listening, you will probably end up using mostly Hi-SP mode, which does not offer very big storage capacity. Furthermore, you would be stuck with the Sony software for ripping (OK, Simple MD Burner is not THAT bad), which is definitely not as good as iTunes. So if you are a computer man (which means you do not mind using a computer for things that do not really require it) and you use your device as an allpurpose listening device (home & on the go), stay with the iPod. It is cheaper and easier to use.

If you use your device as a portable music device and if you like to stay away from computers (which is my case), you would prefer the Hi-MD device. Its easy computer-less digital recording/editing/titling abilities and the excellent Atrac3plus codec performance at low bitrates (which nit-picking guy would NEED high bitrates in the train, the bus or at the office?) are unbeatable. Thus you will become the most storage capacity and computer independence (plus the ability to easily record digitally from other sources like DVDs or video games).

Another important point is knowing your listening habits. if you listen according to the 80/20 rule (80% of time listening to 20% of your music), the storage capacity of the Hi-MD is sufficient to keep your favorite 20% easily portable. However, if you permanently listen to everything you have on your iPod, you will miss the instantaneous access to your whole music library (which you will NEVER reach using a Hi-MD - it is a couple GB against 20,30,40 or even 60GB). Not to mention the superior Photo and video abilities of the more recent iPods.

You could think of a trade-off between storage capacity and listening quality by keeping Hi-LP recordings of your "on-th-go" music and Hi-SP recordings of your "home listening" music (which could be the same, meaning duplicate recordings of the same music at different bitrates). It is a good trade-off, but requires you actively managing your music collection.

In my opinion, Hi-MD devices would gain in acceptability if there were also available Hi-MD decks, bookshelves and car stereo systems. Then, the moving part of the listening experience would be the music only (the disks), and not the whole hardware (display, controls, battery, amp, etc...). This is what all the people have been doing so far with the CDs, owning a CD collection and playing it on a variety of equipments, suited for various purposes (home quality listening, rugged portable player, car stereo, boomboxes, etc...). Such a variety of uses is not yet achieved for the iPod, and is quite expensive anyway.

So, to sum it up, the three crucial points are the following:

* Would you miss the immediate availability of your whole music collection at once?

* Would you miss the ease of use of the iTunes software?

* Would you absolutely like to save money on your device?

If your answers are "yes", stay with your iPod.

If your answers are "no", and you like music more than computers, go for a Hi-Md device.

I personnaly owned an iPod mini 6G for a year, having it filled with 80kbps AAC music, just to realize that I prefer to use my portable music device more like a high capacity cassette recorder than like a computer device. Maybe it is because I am older... In any case, I bought myself an RH10 and an RH1 and gave the iPod mini to my wife. Both of us are really happy now.

[watcher666]

gave the iPod mini to my wife

ohhhhh!!!

Your poor wife....

[petertkalec]

I recently bought my first iPod (5g 30GB) and it's perfect for me. I still have two MDs (NH-900 & N707) which I find myself being MORE happy with since getting my iPod, but not because of any fault in the latter.

The reason being, my iPod now houses lots of my music. Even though I could fill a few iPods, 30GB is enough space to carry around loads of high-quality (256+) MP3s. On the other hand, my MD recorders are both used for recording. I love to play aroud with field recordings and I like inserting original samples into DJ sessions - it really makes a performance sound warm, original, and trippy.

Basically, I hated juggling my everyday listening and recording on MD decks. I know in theory this should be a non-issue, but in between keeping battery levels high for recording, having enough free space on a disc to immediately switch from playing to recording when an opportunity presented itself, and the years-long struggle with Sony's software (though it's finally come to a respectable, er, functional spot), I just found the MD player/recorder dual function to be a bit of a strain on what the unit could live up to.

It's kind of like how you'd love to have a computer loaded with all the high-end graphics, desktop publishing, video editing, dvd-burning, tv-recording software and hardware, and how you can (in theory) do it all on today's machines, but how that same computer performs a million times better with only a few dedicated tasks... anyone follow me on this?

Anyhow, for going abroad, the new iPods have what the company is calling "CD-quality recording" capabilities... though I can't imagine they'll comapre with MD's capabilities. And as far as I know none of the 5g mics are out yet. All say "coming soon". If recording is important to you can you just can't bring yourself to carry both (plus all the associated gear, discs, etc) then bring the MD. Although I've had a lot of trouble with my MD abroad... Mostly my fault, but problems that wouldn't have happened with an iPod.

BTW - where are you going?

[Sparky191]

Well as for quality wise MiniDisc is far superior!

I have a 5g ipod video and all my music on it is encoded in AAC 320kbps.

It sounds excellent except when you then compare it to a copy made on me trusty old JB940 in SP mode!!! The minidisc version has more drive and just sounds more alive!

If im talking utter bo**ocks please correct me!

Try using lossless and the line out on the iPod.

[mmp64]

Another issue is music management - if you have a lot of songs (10,000+) and you like to make different mixes - MD isn't very good for that (really SonicStage isn't very good for that) compared to iTunes. Even with the recent additions to SS of ratings, intelligent playlists, etc. it is still a much bigger deal to create and transfer mixes to MD that it is to sync an iPod.

However - I still think MD sounds better - so I still use it from time-to-time for listening. And recording of course.

[tekdroid]

I'm really after its recording functions...

Ahem.

You know what to do then.

[watcher666]

Try using lossless and the line out on the iPod.

Well, i think 320kbps is good enough!!! And i do hook the ipod up to my Marantz through the line out dock connector. Its not very good!

I find that with the JB940 and my CD player i have the volume of my amp at about a quarter whitch is quite loud. Now, to get the same volume level with the ipods line out i have to turn my amps volume all the way up past the half way mark!!!! And then the sound is very boomy and muddy in the bass department, drowns out the rest of the music and sounds just very poor in comparison. If it turn my minidisc deck or CD up that loud the sound stays perfectly in balance, it just blows my eardrums out and makes next door bang on the wall!

[Sparky191]

In that case theres a problem somewhere, iPod, MP3's or something is faulty. When you are not using the EQ and are using high quality encodings (Lame etc) through the line out the general opinion on Head-Fi is that the iPod should have great sound, if anything its sounds bass deficient because its so neutral. The iPod has a volume limiter which I assume you've unlocked? and the EQ on 4G and older causes distortion, so you don't use it. I suspect your a bit of a basshead though.

[garcou]

The problem is with the output level and quality of portable devices, not with aac vs atrac3+.

That's why so much people claim for himd full deck and car unit!

[Sparky191]

I only mentioned lossless to eliminate encoding as a problem. Using a decent amp/speakers or headphones generally highlights any weakness in the encodings. Most people (the concensus on Head-Fi) seem to think properly gained encodings, the iPod through a line out and decent amp makes a good source. If someone say's it sounds terrible then I reckon theres a problem with the setup somewhere. While I wouldn't expect it to match a decent seperates HiFi I reckon it shouldn't sound awful either. Theres people on these forums who would claim that ATRAC 132kps/64kps is as good as a CD. So you have to take a pinch salt with most comments re SQ on this forum.

[watcher666]

I suspect your a bit of a basshead though.

Quite the opposite! I HATE dance and "boom boom" music. I mostly listen to Katie melua, Norah Jones, Jack Johnson etc etc.

All the music on my ipod is ripped directly from original CD's in itunes AAC 320kbps. Using a pair of Sony EX71's the ipod does sound excellent but i find the line out not that good when compared directly to my MD deck! Its not awful, not by a long shot but i do find it not as "refined" as my MD

But then it could be the cable i use, its a logic 3 "wind up" thing thats got the ipod dock connector on one end then the 2 RCA's on the other, but the cable is worryingly thin!

P.S I dont use any EQ setting etc. (but then i think they dont apply to the line out anyway)

[Sparky191]

Hate to tell you but the EX71 are well known as a bassy earphones. Do a search on the web for "EX71 and bassy".

The line out on an iPod is a very clean almost clinical. Its not bad, but its not to my taste I'll admit. However most people are used to listening to very coloured sound. We're bombarded with bass heavy EQ from everywhere these days. Radio, TV etc. Its hard to step back and turn down the bass and reclaim your midrange. I notice a lot of newer CD's are mixed now to favour a bass heavy eq. Look at all the sound systems now with huge subwoofers. Impossible to avoid them. Most of the sound that will travel through a house and to the neighbours is soley bass. Turn these off and you'll find you cn crank the levels and not annoy the neighbours.

Personally I find ATRAC/MD to be quite coloured myself. In many cases I might even prefer it to the original CD. Its not that its bad its just not all that true to the original CD. I actually prefer Sharp Atrac to Sony's. Its fun and enjoyable, but it is coloured. In my opinion at least.

A bad cable wouldn't help I'm sure.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Sparky191

[dogville]

Not to mention the 2,5 mw + 2,5 mw in the european models. Am I right?

I guess the i-pod shoud have the same output, or not?

regards

[bjsilva]

Hate to tell you but the EX71 are well known as a bassy earphones.

The EX71s are not so much bassy but lacking in mid-range, so the bass and treble stand out more. However, spending some extended time connected to a system with a decent headphone amp at high volumes seems to mellow them out quite a bit. I have a pair and occasionally do this for 4 or 5 hours. I've done it maybe 5 times now, but they still need some more. Probably another 5-10 sessions.

If you use your device as a portable music device and if you like to stay away from computers (which is my case), you would prefer the Hi-MD device.

I think it's easy to forget there are people like this, and I doubt you're particularly aged. I have a few audio files on my computer, none of which are there for listening enjoyment. I am happy to admit that I prefer realtime recording

[Sparky191]

The EX71s are not so much bassy but lacking in mid-range, so the bass and treble stand out more. However, spending some extended time connected to a system with a decent headphone amp at high volumes seems to mellow them out quite a bit. I have a pair and occasionally do this for 4 or 5 hours. I've done it maybe 5 times now, but they still need some more. Probably another 5-10 sessions....

If you've gone to the effort and expense of getting a headphone amp, I would have thought you'd have matched it up with better earphones than EX71's which are budget set of buds. I don't agree that its just a lack of midrange though. But if you like them, I guess thats all that matters.