defending the minidisk format!

[Sammyboy]

i showed a mate of mine my newly acquired NH-700, who promptly took the piss stating it was obsolete!

So, apart from it's recording capabilities what else can i use in md's defence? I mentioned sound quality and his retort was uncompressed ogg or flac files are just as good.

Any more ammo i can use against him lol?

[kino170878]

Recording/editing is the only area where I think the minidisc format still wins, it terms of cost and mobility of use. There are no other advantages for MD that can stand apart from the rest of the competition now. Even though I still think my old MD (not hi-md) player beats any of the new DAPs sound quality wise including the new Sony flash units.

Edited October 13, 2007 by kino170878

[Strungup]

i showed a mate of mine my newly acquired NH-700, who promptly took the piss stating it was obsolete!

So, apart from it's recording capabilities what else can i use in md's defence? I mentioned sound quality and his retort was uncompressed ogg or flac files are just as good.

Any more ammo i can use against him lol?

tell him to bring a portable Flac recorder to you . or Ogg Vorbis . wont happen .

There are plenty of graphics and charts on this website if you look around , but my question is .............. why do you need his approval , or why do you need to argue about it . That defeats the purpose of owning it , that purpose being ........... to just use it and be Happy .

" May the Source be with you "

I am the MD Jedi Master Yoda .

Edited October 14, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[Sammyboy]

Very true Guitarfxr!

I am enjoying the MD at the mo, preferring it over my Meizu MP3 player currently and enjoying the sound quality!

I'll just tell my mate tough titties I like MD players

Edited October 14, 2007 by Sammyboy

[Syrius]

How about not ever needing an update, or crashing on you, like certain horrible white players that turn people into zombies? How about unrestricted recording and uploading capabilities, in WAV?

How about being well built and not turning into bricks overnight?

[tekdroid]

i showed a mate of mine my newly acquired NH-700, who promptly took the piss stating it was obsolete!

He's right.

1) Removable batteries are stone-age with no practical purpose whatsoever. Power is everywhere, as we know. And batteries last long enough, even for extended trippage. And there's always bulky external battery packs for ultra cheap!

2) Two-way transfers to and from computer are similarly useless.

3) So is recording and editing and deleting on-the-go.

4) quality MIC inputs are leftovers from some god-awful age. There is nothing worth recording!

5) AC adaptors, too. Useless!

6) So too are high-quality components that benefit the sound.

7) small LCD displays like the one on your NH-700 that don't add noise to the audio path and can be seen in full sunlight with superior legibility are useless

8) Sony's remote controls all suck heavily. Who needs remotes anyway? Who would want an LCD on their remote? Or simply a tactile remote when outdoors? Or even a big choice of remotes? Pfff. Useless. I would rather buy the superior Apple Radio Remote which allows me to whip the device out every time i want to see what's going on.

9) more devices should be relased with higher dependence on a PC to get something listenable on it. Optical inputs and Line Inputs....hah, what a joke! What are they for again? Inputs that aren't USB clearly suck.

10) recording from live and dead sources with no compression using a quality device is also useless. So to is subsequently saving these files to WAVS or FLACs (see above about how there's nothing out there worth recording).

In short, I think he's got u on this one...

The future is clearly the iPod. I mean, just look at its market share.

That MUST mean it's the device for everyone!

Down with obsolete tech!

Sorry but you've lost this argument...

[Strungup]

You see , Tekdroid , has this thing about Modern technologie , it is somewhat of an addiction really , TO BASHING IT ! , which is why we like him so much , his sense of sarcasm is completely touching , ...... It really is a Beautiful thing , ,... ? what .. sorry what was that ../? OH The chain ! well that is just to keep him from Destroying everything, dont wory he is safe ,.... we think .

[ozpeter]

Kind of depends what tool you want for the job at hand. I've got a Zoom H2 now but no way will I be disposing of any of my three Hi-MD recorders. For instance, sometime digital in is important to me, and quite often being able to put the original media (Hi MD) aside as a temporary backup archive for some months is important - which is where little expensive (still, compared to Hi-MD even now) memory cards are not so good.

On the other hand I'm recording a two-hour programme off the radio at the moment for my wife onto the H2 as I can then take the card out and pop it straight into her PC for her instantly to play it with WMP with no messing around.

Horses for courses.

[Sammyboy]

You see , Tekdroid , has this thing about Modern technologie , it is somewhat of an addiction really , TO BASHING IT ! , which is why we like him so much , his sense of sarcasm is completely touching , ...... It really is a Beautiful thing , ,... ? what .. sorry what was that ../? OH The chain ! well that is just to keep him from Destroying everything, dont wory he is safe ,.... we think .

Actually, it's the chaperone with the 10ft cattle prod I'm more worried about!

Cheers for the feedback so far

[dragonfly]

Nobody has mentioned the interchangeable media. That's what I like a lot about the MD.

And I must agree about not having to use a computer. I rarely use my computer to transfer music to my MDs. Then again, most likely not even people on this forum have two shelf stereo systems from Japan that record directly from CD to MD...

[Strungup]

Nobody has mentioned the interchangeable media. That's what I like a lot about the MD.

And I must agree about not having to use a computer. I rarely use my computer to transfer music to my MDs. Then again, most likely not even people on this forum have two shelf stereo systems from Japan that record directly from CD to MD...

I ummm ,.... , Live in Japan ...

[raintheory]

I have a CD/MD deck that does SP or LP modes from CD>MD/// even has a hi-speed transfer mode.

[bobt]

best thing about MD, is it doesn't need to prove anything, just listen, I'd like to see you swap songs with a friends Ipod as easily as swapping a disc

Bob

[raintheory]

best thing about MD, is it doesn't need to prove anything, just listen, I'd like to see you swap songs with a friends Ipod as easily as swapping a disc

Bob

yeah, the ipod generation sadly may never know the beauty of the mixtape.

[Strungup]

best thing about MD, is it doesn't need to prove anything, just listen, I'd like to see you swap songs with a friends Ipod as easily as swapping a disc

Bob

I was walking in the park where I took the "Pics of Japan" that you saw , yesterday ... and there was an older guy walking we crossed paths , and I noticed His headphones and Remote sticking out of his bag ( MD , I said to myself . YAY ) so I asked him, "MD desu ka?" he replied in the affirmative , which resulted in my generosity , of passing a copy of Shadowfax , "Folksongs for a Nuclear Village " recorded on my R50 to him , just to say hi !!!!. ............ He was rather pleased .

[bobt]

I was walking in the park where I took the "Pics of Japan" that you saw , yesterday ... and there was an older guy walking we crossed paths , and I noticed His headphones and Remote sticking out of his bag ( MD , I said to myself . YAY ) so I asked him, "MD desu ka?" he replied in the affirmative , which resulted in my generosity , of passing a copy of Shadowfax , "Folksongs for a Nuclear Village " recorded on my R50 to him , just to say hi !!!!. ............ He was rather pleased .

As would I, Shadowfax is an incredible group, play that one a lot

TTFN

Bob

[theblueraja]

I have the end-all final word response for your friend. Why MD? Because iPod is dumb.

Ok, slight Spaceballs movie reference about good versus evil if anyone has seen the movie, but anyway, basically I struggled with the similar arguments and pressures from all the DAP users around me, and I even gave in for a bit (2 days) and bought an iPod and returned it right away. It is quite simple really. Use what works for you. IPods ARE great for certain people. No one here is RIGHT or WRONG. In fact many people even claim iPod sounds great with the right earbuds, etc,... I recently returned to MD after a six-month break using a Sony Vaio (sticking with ATRAC) basically because minidiscs are cool. I love them. The cool gadget factor, making artwork labels, and enjoying the sound quality is what brought me back, and I no longer worry about who will try to fight me with the latest and "greatest." Everyone around me has been raving about the iTouch and all of its video/net features, etc., etc... not ONE person has said ANYTHING about how it SOUNDS. Hilarious. I think the iPod of 2008 they'll actually FORGET to put a MUSIC PLAYING feature in the iPod.

Anyway, enjoy minidisc. If you want to feel part of a crowd or group, hang with us here, or at the Audio T-Board. Otherwise, stand proud and enjoy.

[Sammyboy]

Well put theblueraja, I do enjoy the sound quality of Minidiscs (always been a bit dissapointed with the iPod's sound quality, my 30Gb Video could be going on Ebay soon!), though I've found an MP3 player with very good sound quality too (the Meizu Miniplayer - 4Gb) but like the Minidisc too, I think I kinda like having all these little multicoloured disks too!

I've just bought 80 assorted MDs off Ebay, going to have fun going through them and exploring the music on them, try to expand my musical horizons - and if there are any I don't like, I'll either blank them, or noticed there's a MD swap section here so might bung some on there too!

[theblueraja]

I forgot to mention I can't say enough about less is more as far as capacity goes. I'll admit at first it was fun when I got a 40gig Sony DAP to be able to jump around anywhere my mood seemed fit, but in reality it caused me to be more of a SAMPLER than true LISTENER, which is what my usual music habit is; albums or artists in their entirety. Again, it depends on the person, and due to my age I haven't been brought up on the mp3 melting pot of shuffle-playlists etc.

But I love just grabbing a few MDs on the go and soaking in what I have... and even THEN I still have much more than I'll have time to listen to, of course. Plus if I want variety I can make two HiMD mix discs and that would be the equivalent of 35 full albums on CD (at the 132k bitrate I use) which is PLENTY.

Edited October 15, 2007 by theblueraja

[Strungup]

Yeah , 35 Albumns , ... That ACTUALLY SOUND GOOD !!!!

lets see...... 35 = about 31 actual hours ( depending on albumns )

24 hours in a day

about 7-8 hours of sleep a day

add in work if you hae a Job ( Generally listening at work is frowned upon)

Driving to and from work ( No headphones when you drive ) MD Car setups ARE available so that is negotiable

Spending some time with the significant other ( I dont think the groove would be quite the same Sharing Phone connects eh!)

a few other time detractions I cant immediately think of ( it is 5 am where I am)

That adds up to about a weeks worth of music , of course there are the days , where the Phones never leave your head ( Those are nice days too)

[Sammyboy]

btw guitarfxr, forgot to ask, who are Shadowfax, I'm ashamed to admit I've never heard of them! What genre are they?

Currently enjoying working my way through all these minidiscs I've just got, found a few excellent tracks/albums!

I have to admit to being a bit of a 'sampler' at times, though if I use my MD more I should become more of a 'listener', the MD might just get me into music more seriously, I'm turning into a bit of an audiophile I think in my old age!

[raintheory]

btw guitarfxr, forgot to ask, who are Shadowfax, I'm ashamed to admit I've never heard of them! What genre are they?

Currently enjoying working my way through all these minidiscs I've just got, found a few excellent tracks/albums!

I have to admit to being a bit of a 'sampler' at times, though if I use my MD more I should become more of a 'listener', the MD might just get me into music more seriously, I'm turning into a bit of an audiophile I think in my old age!

weren't shadowfax part of the windham hill crowd?

i think i've picked up every windham hill release from my local goodwill for 25 cents a pop// vinyl to boot!

Edited October 15, 2007 by raintheory

[Strungup]

ShadowFax , is the name of the White Horse in Lord of the Rings , The band took the name representing the etherealnes of all things .

They Started of with the Windham Hill record label ( I think they have WH as well as GRP and another label , I would have to check on that . )

A lot of Polyrythmic , Modal fusion , with a bit of Escapement built in . In the vein of Concept albumns , but with varying statements .

Players from Shadowfax feature widely on other peoples recordings . And have additional memebers on their own . There are two Albumns , with Charlie Bisharat on them , and others where Chic Corea makes a guest showing , etc , Micheal Manring , and others .

ShadowFax will enlighten the average Classic Rock Musician or fan , into the world of creative music just Gently enough to decieve them , then Blast their imagination a couple of good times enough , to Really get their attention and keep it , Then proceed to Educate them that there is a world out there they didnt know about .

Anyone wish to add to that description???

[Sammyboy]

Oops, I think I've threadjacked my own thread!

Thanks for that info on Shadowfax, I knew about him being the horse Gandalf rode in LOTR, sound like an interesting band, I'll have to look out for stuff by them!

Anyways, back on subject, I think if this mate starts making comments about my MD player/recorder, I'll just tell him to get stuffed, and I like using it no matter if it's an obsolete format or not, and that's all that matters!

[Strungup]

Ok , Everyone say "Amen " ... he has been converted !

[raintheory]

just get a 1/8" male>male stereo patch cable, and next time you guys are out and about somewhere, grab his mp3 player and record a few songs off of it onto MD.

then try to get him to record some songs from your MD to his mp3 player.

better yet, record him talking trash about MD and saying how great other things are, then chop up the recordings in audacity and make them say the opposite. make a CD of it and it would be a great present for the holidays.,

Edited October 15, 2007 by raintheory

[Strungup]

I LIKE that Idea

:drinks:

[BIGHMW]

I'll admit that since getting my MZ-NH700 (one of now-three of them that I own), I have become a bit of a sampler, but, when I play my MDs either at home or in the car on my legacy decks, I am indeed more of a listener, it's just so hard to pick any one of an average than 30 CDs recorded on a 1GB Hi-MD without surfing through them all.

[poe]

You can even record him on the sly by simply plugging in your headphones into the mike input of your MD. This turns your headphones into a mike. I really don't know how good the pick will be, but I know that it works because I've done it before. POE

[walkdude]

I am from the iPod generation...

Ipod Pros:

Shiny...

Lots of music...

Shiny...

CONS:

Cant record tunes from an analog source, Like your freinds MD or CD player...

Hard drive breaks after being dropped less than 1 ft.

They get scratched easy.

Does it look like you can download music off of another Ipod?

Minidisc Pros:

Recordability from an analog source, Like your freinds MD or CD player...

Durable! All metal design! Can be buffed!

Tradable Discs! You can trade em around, If you want to reuse it you can without having to ask for your's back.

Editing on the go! Erase and set track markers!

Cheap! (Discs cost about a dollar at least)

Cons:

Didnt really have a cult following like MP3-Players

Some machines are rare.

Its hard to find Prerecorded MD's (In North America)

Hey GuitarFxr... I Need a favor...

Could you look for *new* PreRecorded MD's from the following artists? Im a fan of japanese music, and since MD is universal (Like music CD's) I could buy some from japan and play them here up in canada.

Crystal Kay

Dir en grey

HIGH and MIGHTY COLOR

Morning Musume

Orange Range

Puffy (AKA Puffy Ami Yumi)

Round Table (Feat. Nino)

See-Saw

Younha

Edited October 18, 2007 by WalkDude

[pata2001]

Since when iPods being advertised as a recorder? They are called Digital Audio Player for a reason. Nobody ever claim iPods can do a better recording than MD, since it's not a recorder. [sarcasm]Yeah, my DVD writer is BETTER than your CD player, since your CD player cannot burn DVDs![/sarcasm]. Way to go for defending MD against nothing.

A more fair comparison would be to compare MD with Sony Network walkmen that can do line-in recording, and compare the recording quality.

MD is obselete as a media.

1. Slow read/write speed.

2. Propietary

3. Low capacity for the physical size.

All we need is somebody to create a high quality consumer-grade (not pro-thousand of dollars price range) portable recorder using flash memory like SD cards. Sony could've simply done this, making a portable recorder with the same internals as the RH1 but utilizing memory stick as the media. Once they do, that's it for MD.

Edited October 18, 2007 by pata2001

[Strungup]

I am from the iPod generation...

Ipod Pros:

Shiny...

Lots of music...

Shiny...

CONS:

Cant record tunes from an analog source, Like your freinds MD or CD player...

Hard drive breaks after being dropped less than 1 ft.

They get scratched easy.

Does it look like you can download music off of another Ipod?

Minidisc Pros:

Recordability from an analog source, Like your freinds MD or CD player...

Durable! All metal design! Can be buffed!

Tradable Discs! You can trade em around, If you want to reuse it you can without having to ask for your's back.

Editing on the go! Erase and set track markers!

Cheap! (Discs cost about a dollar at least)

Cons:

Didnt really have a cult following like MP3-Players

Some machines are rare.

Its hard to find Prerecorded MD's (In North America)

Hey GuitarFxr... I Need a favor...

Could you look for *new* PreRecorded MD's from the following artists? Im a fan of japanese music, and since MD is universal (Like music CD's) I could buy some from japan and play them here up in canada.

Crystal Kay

Dir en grey

HIGH and MIGHTY COLOR

Morning Musume

Orange Range

Puffy (AKA Puffy Ami Yumi)

Round Table (Feat. Nino)

See-Saw

Younha

Are they on Prerecordeds ?????? ( show me a Link) I can Record some of them for you . or easier , I will give you the COOOOOOL way to get that stuff.

Divx.com ....Download the Divx player , and webplayer for your browser , then go to stage6.com and type in the search field Crystal Kay . I have downladed almost all the vids , for her and Utada Hikaru , Not really into MMusume ( met them once) But most of those are in the Japanese music videos section plus a WHOLE lot more , and the audio quality of the videos is Good enough to rip to HiMD then Import and burn to CD . They Really are good.

Since when iPods being advertised as a recorder? They are called Digital Audio Player for a reason. Nobody ever claim iPods can do a better recording than MD, since it's not a recorder. [sarcasm]Yeah, my DVD writer is BETTER than your CD player, since your CD player cannot burn DVDs![/sarcasm]. Way to go for defending MD against nothing.

A more fair comparison would be to compare MD with Sony Network walkmen that can do line-in recording, and compare the recording quality.

MD is obselete as a media.

1. Slow read/write speed.

2. Propietary

3. Low capacity for the physical size.

All we need is somebody to create a high quality consumer-grade (not pro-thousand of dollars price range) portable recorder using flash memory like SD cards. Sony could've simply done this, making a portable recorder with the same internals as the RH1 but utilizing memory stick as the media. Once they do, that's it for MD.

Sony PCM -D50 .......... done , you asked for it you got it .

[theblueraja]

Minidisc Cons:

Didnt really have a cult following like MP3-Players

That's a bad thing??

[pata2001]

Sony PCM -D50 .......... done , you asked for it you got it .

I know that. It's the next step, but at $600, that is not close enough for consumer market. Plus Sony markets it for pro/broadcasters only, not something you would find at your local Bestbuy. My point is flash memory is the next step for removable media. Analog line-in recording is already doable on some Sony Network Walkman models.

[theblueraja]

Apple has always been a few steps BEHIND Sony as far as capabilities, but lightyears ahead in marketing. I'm sure a recording feature will be integrated in the iPod very soon.

[Strungup]

Apple has always been a few steps BEHIND Sony as far as capabilities, but lightyears ahead in marketing. I'm sure a recording feature will be integrated in the iPod very soon.

iPods do record , They just have to have an attachment that accesses that feature , they record in 16 bit 44.1 khz

I know that. It's the next step, but at $600, that is not close enough for consumer market. Plus Sony markets it for pro/broadcasters only, not something you would find at your local Bestbuy. My point is flash memory is the next step for removable media. Analog line-in recording is already doable on some Sony Network Walkman models.

It wont be 600 , list I think is 499 , so think 4 bills

[walkdude]

Are they on Prerecordeds ?????? ( show me a Link) I can Record some of them for you . or easier , I will give you the COOOOOOL way to get that stuff.

Divx.com ....Download the Divx player , and webplayer for your browser , then go to stage6.com and type in the search field Crystal Kay . I have downladed almost all the vids , for her and Utada Hikaru , Not really into MMusume ( met them once) But most of those are in the Japanese music videos section plus a WHOLE lot more , and the audio quality of the videos is Good enough to rip to HiMD then Import and burn to CD . They Really are good.

Sony PCM -D50 .......... done , you asked for it you got it .

I like prerec'd MD's sounds just like CD, but since they are scarce I just buy the CD's and convert them.

I never thought of going on stage6, Its already 128-256kbps MP3s so it would work pretty well.

Still, I Might as well spend the 1000 Yen and buy the CD's and just D-D convert them myself...

Screw iTunes! Buy CD's!

[BIGHMW]

I like prerec'd MD's sounds just like CD, but since they are scarce I just buy the CD's and convert them.

I never thought of going on stage6, Its already 128-256kbps MP3s so it would work pretty well.

Still, I Might as well spend the 1000 Yen and buy the CD's and just D-D convert them myself...

Screw iTunes! Buy CD's!

I agree. I just smply digitally record some of my CDs to MD and turn right around and resell those CDs after recording them on MD.

That is what I do with my CDs I use to make my 75-79+ minute super-compilations before putting them onto Hi-MD, and I even go out of the way to burn a backup CD of those compilations in case my master MDs get stolen/lost, etc.

Sometimes when recording live shows or concerts I use MD as a recording media, burn a master CD of the show, and then (thanks to MiniDisc's exclusive reusability, try doing THAT with an iPod!!!) erase the MD after transfer to a more permanent media.

[theblueraja]

I agree. I just smply digitally record some of my CDs to MD and turn right around and resell those CDs after recording them on MD.

Hey, I'm down with MD just like the next guy here... but you have no concern making your MASTERS on obsolete media?? I mean, sure CDs will be obsolete quite soon, but those can be ripped digitally for decades to come since they've been part of our society for so long... sooner or later any type of MD 'ripping' via a computer, or an outdated Sonic Stage program will be near impossible.. and our players will only last SO long.

Just curious what your take is on this.

[BIGHMW]

Hey, I'm down with MD just like the next guy here... but you have no concern making your MASTERS on obsolete media?? I mean, sure CDs will be obsolete quite soon, but those can be ripped digitally for decades to come since they've been part of our society for so long... sooner or later any type of MD 'ripping' via a computer, or an outdated Sonic Stage program will be near impossible.. and our players will only last SO long.

Just curious what your take is on this.

I do have an advantage with MD that no PC-based or stand-alone (even pro like my HHB CDR-850, in which I use to make the master CDs) CD burner has, and that is that I can edit, re-sequence, and even digitally boost the signal level (using my MDS-E10 pro MD recorder in either S.F. Edit mode or with the digital recording level) in order to mix older CD masters with newer remasters that are obviously louder in volume than they used to be, considering that most if not all (except for post-2000 EU units before hacking) are only 5 mW per channel compared to most older PMP's.

As for the "obsolete" factor involving the proprietary MD format and ATRAC recording system, I as well as you and most other find it superior to MP3 in most KB rates and it just depends who you ask as far as their unmatched versatility, and it is a great thing I never even thought of MP3 or about becoming one of the many unfortunate brainwashed iSheep out there who don't realize just how superior, despite the limited storage capacity I will admit, MD is to practically almost every form of media out there, with the possible exceptions of CD/DVD, although MD out lives CD and DVD as far as lifespan is concerned, as CD-R/DVD-Rs have a tendancy of losing their data due to age and wear and tear, and oh, how we cannot forget the vulnerability of scratches CD and DVDs have that we MD freaks don't have to put up with.

As for selling the CDs back after doing the MD super-compilations, I only sell the original CDs that are used to make those, as far as the others I do keep the CDs of those that I just do straight-on CD-MD copies of, like my CD albums.

Remember what this man says, in the same vein much like Guitarfxr and bobt say "use the Source":

ATRAC OR DEATH!!!