What will happen to MD, "down the road"?

[bobzilli]

I'm finally starting to think ofwhat I'm gona do MD wise in the years to come. As the supply of new HiMD recorders drys up I have taken a good look at my discs and players. a I have a couple hundred MD discs recorded as MD and may be half that in HiMD. I have two Hi MD portables and two MD players (one a portable). I guess maybe I need to decide on one format or the other. If I opt for HiMD I would like another deck for "insurance" down the road, if I stay with MD I could maybe unload a Hi MD player and keep one and some discs for storage back up only...I dont know... My question is, what are others doing?

[Strungup]

Onkyo Has HiMD and looks like they will keep it .

[bobt]

we're getting as many of any kind we can get, it's an obsession man, but a good one

Bob

[sector001]

if u can afford, stock up on the players and recorders...and blanks.

[A440]

I don't see any reason to own anything other than Hi-MD units.

At the moment I have an NH-700 with a failing wheel (but which works otherwise), a newish backup NH-700 and a RH-1, along with more discs than I want to think about. Someday I will upload all the legacy MD recordings with the RH1 and hope that I don't wear it out with literally hundreds of discs.

[bobzilli]

Hi MD units make sense if we can keep finding discs (and units). I figure there are a lot more MD units out here (especially in JApan) where the format had a more established base.

[kino170878]

For me at least going down the MD route makes more sense rather than sticking to Hi-MD. Incredible though it may seen, with old MD you have far more options. Ebay continues to offer a lot of legacy equipment, and Sony UK are still selling new MD decks like the MDS-JE480 even today at my local store. With Hi-MD you are limited to one model from one company (Onkyo). This is not good. Saying that, of course you have uploading/downloading to the PC which is a major advantage for Hi-MD. But Atrac3plus itself is now finished as a format so that advantage no longer seems to be as valid as before.

Or perhaps just continue as you are doing now, balancing the two formats so long as money allows it.

Edited January 18, 2008 by kino170878

[bobzilli]

Thanks for your imput. I don't want to balance between the two formats a it is frustrating to grab a disc I want t hear and realize I cant play it on my home MD deck. I feel compelled to make a choice, but still I wonder...

[kino170878]

That's the problem with Sony. Originally MD was designed for listening on a hi-fi setup like yours. One rate, 292kps. Hit the disc, boom quality sound. It was never made with computer transfers in mind. Which is why I suppose till this day no SP codec is made available in Sonicstage.

Then comes Hi-MD, which looks great on paper. Unlimited transfers to and from the PC but with fewer editing options compared to old MD. It was designed primarily with convenience (and DRM) in mind, rather than just sound quality. So a range of rates were availabe, not one fixed rate. That was all good and well. But the real deal breaker was, little to no product support from its maker. Sony faced a crisis of conscience, and decided to severely restrict the new Hi-MD technology. Which ultimately led to the downfall of Hi-MD.

This is why I have decided to go back to good old legacy MD. I gaurantee you legacy MD will be here long after Hi-MD has disappeared completely.

By the way, I would dearly love to get my hands on one of those Japan only Netjuke Hi-fi systems. Supposedly these have an MD slot (non Hi-MD) and can transfer recordings to the hard disc at 20x normal speed.

Edited January 18, 2008 by kino170878

[bobzilli]

I love the ease of transfer with the RH1 to MAC, though I still think real time transfers sound better and I'm inclined to think that MD sounds better than HiMD. It seems everyone who has responded has the same issue and thoughts I have expressed. Misery love company I guess

[garcou]

I went to himd on wich I stock music , work, photos, even some xvid or h264 videos... Will never go back to poor old MD.

for Hifi listenning I'd like an ES style Sony deck, but I can live With the very good Onkyos.

In the car, I still hope for a himd car unit, but I can live with my nh900 conected to sony cd car unit via Connect2 adapter.

Edited January 19, 2008 by garcou

[pitdroidtech]

I love the ease of transfer with the RH1 to MAC, though I still think real time transfers sound better and I'm inclined to think that MD sounds better than HiMD. It seems everyone who has responded has the same issue and thoughts I have expressed. Misery love company I guess

comparing the current ATRAC SP to the older SP used on net-md and md, I've heard a number of people claim that the SP on Hi-MD units sounds better. I haven't done any direct comparisons myself so I can't give a personal opinion.

I rip my cd's to minidisc as 256Kbps ATRAC, and I don't use mdlp (132 or 64 version) or atrac3plus (64 or 48 version) since they have way too many artifacts, and atrac3plus does too much guessing for my preference. But the ATRAC 256Kbps sound all right to me. I'm not sure if the ATRAC SonicStage uses for bitrates above 132Kbps is atrac3plus? If so then I think atrac3plus is okay at high bitrates.

Sony seem to have dropped ATRAC support completely in mp3 players, I wonder if this signifies death of atrac, or whether the japanese markets will continue to support atrac (SE phones in japan support ATRAC for example, not just minidisc and flash based players) and ensure it's continued existance? Or, will we see atrac dropped completely, even in minidisc, and if so, will minidisc live on as a formfactor sans atrac? Now that would be a turn up for the books, minidisc players that not only support mp3 (which we now have), but have no support for ATRAC! (I sorta hope they continue support for atrac)

There is also the question, will Sonic Stage live on, if so, when will it get the ability to copy songs from the library to a Sony (or other brand) music player via usb mass storage(ie: a drive letter), as opposed to only an ATRAC device or cd?

[cochra1]

I will continue to use my Hi-MD player (RH1) as long as it lasts (which won't be for ever, as those things weren't really built to last if we're honest), or until something of equal sound quality comes along - it may be here already and I'm not yet aware.

I'm actually more saddened to learn that Sony have abandoned ATRAC. Not least because 95% of tunes on my PC are in ATRAC. I still have the original CDs though. I never downloaded tunes - I wouldn't listen to such horrible bitrates as that.

SonicStage is actually the best quality MP3 converter I have ever heard though. iTunes presumably uses inferior codecs, as it makes horrible MP3s even at 320 kbps compared with SonicStage. So whatever player I go for next, I will still be using Sonic Stage to convert my CDs into MP3, then will import the music files into whatever software I need for that player (unless I find that player's software makes just-as-good MP3s). Sonic stage uses a 'joint stereo' codec for MP3s (not sure if it's the same for ATRAC3 also). This is much misunderstood, but basically increases quality by only recording audio that is present in both the left and right channels once, rather than twice, which takes up less data without sacrificing quality. Therefore, a 320 kbps MP3 in joint stereo is superior to a 320 kbps standard stereo conversion because less musical information needs to be thrown away to retain the same file size. I believe it basically records the whole of the left channel, then for the right channel it just records the differences from the left (either to add extra sounds or take them away). Joint Stereo does require a very good codec though to pull it off, and many converters don't succeed. But SonicStage does it excellently. 352 kbps ATRAC recordings still just have the edge though. Like I say, I'm not sure if ATRAC uses joint stereo as well - but that's probably on another thread somewhere.

But, at the end of the day, MD and Hi-MD will go the same way as Betamax. In fact, I think of MD as being the Betamax of music players - i.e. superior quality, but losing out to better marketed and better supported inferior products. It's a shame, because you would think it would be so easy to market, given how sexy it looks compared with iPods (and lets face it, most people are more bothered about looks than quality of sound, hence iPod's success). And the DRM never helped. Or the crappy earlier verions of SonicStage (although I have no issues whatsoever with 4.2, and much prefer it to the ugly, bloated iTunes). Such is life.

UPDATE

Sony have not done away with ATRAC. The latest NWZA816B recognises the format.

Edited January 24, 2008 by KanakoAndTheNumbSkulls

[pitdroidtech]

That's very interesting news. According to Sony Australia, the NWZA816B supports these formats:

Supports: MP3 CBR (Constant Bit Rate)

Supports: MP3 VBR (Variable Bit Rate)

Supports: WMA (Unprotected)

Supports: WMA (WM-DRM 10 / PlaysForSure)

Supports: AAC (Unprotected)

Supports: Linear PCM

No mention of ATRAC at all. Maybe the Linear PCM is ATRAC in a WAV container?

Do you know if the NWDB103/105's support ATRAC as well? I want to get one, but only if it can run ATRAC/ATRAC3PLUS. If it's mp3 only, I might get one anyway, but if it doesn't work with SonicStage there is no point for me as I'm actually using SonicStage as my music library (I prefer it over itunes).

Still atrac support would be nice, so I can run atrac through my Sony USB capable mini-system (which can play atrac off Sony players, but not unfortunately, HiMD units) without burning atrac cd's.

Edited January 25, 2008 by max_wedge

[theblueraja]

if u can afford, stock up on the players and recorders...and blanks.

...and batteries!!

[Syrius]

No need when your unit takes AAs.

[pitdroidtech]

No need when your unit takes AAs.

yep, I never could get proprietary batteries, other than to make thinner formfactors, but it seems pointless to not have the ability to fill up anywhere standard batteries are available.

However with a phone I've been convinced otherwise. One of the beauties of mobile phones is they provide a 15hr plus MP3 player (SE phones 30hr on flightmode). And since you charge a phone everynight as a matter of course, you can usually get through the day without issues. It's also good from the camera point of view - no worrying about needing to find batteries - the phone can take hundreds of photos without blinking. Camera and MP3 playing ability add very little to a phones already massive power consumption - most of the power use is via UI and radio.

But to have all your standalone devices on proprietary batteries means having to have 5 different devices charging in dock all the time. Your desk becomes dock city! Not to mention the hassle and expense when a battery dies. One AA/AAA charger, a bunch of rechargeables, and that's good enough for me. And trusty phone as a backup music player/camera

[Mikami]

My question is, what are others doing?

I'm not worried about HI-MD or MD drying up anytime, soon. At, least not in Japan.

(1) While Sony may be the only one making portable HI-MD and NetMD units there are a number of other companies that are making deck recorders, MD mini Systems, and one company making HI-MD bookself.

(2) Before, Sony came out with HI-MD they had been perfecting the use of the blue lazer and phase shifts with plasma to push Magneto-Optical technology past the maxium 9 gig to 50gig and to maybe even almost 200 gigs with on a new High Desity Optical disc (UDO, I think) that are now being used in Banks. These disk are much bigger than HI-MD, but the it should not be long before they find a way to make them smaller and as compact as a MiniDisc(if there is enough interest).

(3)Although, DVDR, and CDR/RW super popular (with the average joe) and cheap they are still dye based media that fades with in time and is probably not very good for archiving data for long periods of time which is why there is still strong interest in Magneto-optical tech on which MD and HI-MD is based.

(4)MD like other MO disc of yesterday may be slower and not as popular as hard drives, but they last longer. (How may Computer harddrives have you been through?) And, because the media last longer there will still be a demand for units to produced.

(5) Now, Tape's and Tape walkman are still being made for some reason. And I doubt that MiniDisc will go before Tape does.

(6) Next, year(2009) Sony might make some 30th aniversery Walkman models.(but, that's just speculation on my part/ Oh, and I'm not talking about that ridiculous April fools day joke, either!) The MZ-RH1 is cool enough and it's still selling well in Japan(from what I can guess which is why they might make one HI-MD unit and maybe a Net-MD unit for Japan, but then again thats just speculation). Those designers really knew what they were doing or they must have listened to what people actually wanted when they made the MZ-RH1.

( I did not address SD cards and soild state media and they will become cheaper, how long they last I do not know?)

(7)In Japan Mini Disc has been fairly successful in supplanting audio cassette tape (both micro and full sized) in the home recording arena. Of course cassette's are still sold, but business men and reporters sometimes use a combination of IC recorders and Mini Disc.

(8) When it comes to amateur/semi professional portable recording of: concert's, recitals, ones own band, bootlegging MD is still king in Japan followed by those who actually lug their Notebook computers around for recording. Basically, I think anyone who wants to record in quality and does not happen to have access to his/her own studio probably uses Mini Disc in Japan.

(9) There are still a number of people both in and outside of Japan who do not want to be forced to use a computer ever time they want to play, share, listen to, or record music.Call them old fashion if you like, but I am one of those people. I can understand why Radio stations use hard disc juke boxes to play music on the air but I don't like to do that at home(some do and thats okay for them). I also, understand why many like to use their computer for editing music and sharing it via e-mail.

I like to keep MD away from computer in general and record digital(realtime) from MD to a stand alone CD recorder at times when I must put something on CDR.

(10) Interestingly, people still use DV camera's and tapes and those can not be drag and drop from the unit to a computer. Yet, we don't hear anyone complain about that. If you want to edit a DV you must do so through a real time upload. Just because it is slow doesn't mean it's inferior does it? It is simply like MiniDisc is one of the many tools to be used to get the job done. And for me MiniDisc still gets the job down better than the other alternatives.

Edited April 13, 2008 by Mikami

[theblueraja]

Mikami I love your thought process and it makes me feel even more secure & happy about sticking with MD. Not that I NEEDED any security, but it's always nice to have, or to at least hope for

[kino170878]

I'm not worried about HI-MD or MD drying up anytime, soon. At, least not in Japan.

(1) While Sony may be the only one making portable HI-MD and NetMD units there are a number of other companies that are making deck recorders, MD mini Systems, and one company making HI-MD bookself.

(2) Before, Sony came out with HI-MD they had been perfecting the use of the blue lazer and phase shifts with plasma to push Magneto-Optical technology past the maxium 9 gig to 50gig and to maybe even almost 200 gigs with on a new High Desity Optical disc (UDO, I think) that are now being used in Banks. These disk are much bigger than HI-MD, but the it should not be long before they find a way to make them smaller and as compact as a MiniDisc(if there is enough interest).

(3)Although, DVDR, and CDR/RW super popular (with the average joe) and cheap they are still dye based media that fades with in time and is probably not very good for archiving data for long periods of time which is why there is still strong interest in Magneto-optical tech on which MD and HI-MD is based.

(4)MD like other MO disc of yesterday may be slower and not as popular as hard drives, but they last longer. (How may Computer harddrives have you been through?) And, because the media last longer there will still be a demand for units to produced.

(5) Now, Tape's and Tape walkman are still being made for some reason. And I doubt that MiniDisc will go before Tape does.

(6) Next, year(2009) Sony might make some 30th aniversery Walkman models.(but, that's just speculation on my part/ Oh, and I'm not talking about that ridiculous April fools day joke, either!) The MZ-RH1 is cool enough and it's still selling well in Japan(from what I can guess which is why they might make one HI-MD unit and maybe a Net-MD unit for Japan, but then again thats just speculation). Those designers really knew what they were doing or they must have listened to what people actually wanted when they made the MZ-RH1.

( I did not address SD cards and soild state media and they will become cheaper, how long they last I do not know?)

This is a great post you made. Hopefully other companies will continue to pursue their minidisc plans even if Sony fail to deliver. Onkyo, Panasonic, HHB and Tascam are still actively supporting the format.

[theblueraja]

Yeah, can we somehow make Mikami's post a STICKY? Those words are golden.

[pata2001]

I went to a local Fry's and I can find Beta tapes, 5.25" floppy disks, cassette tapes, etc, but no MD nor HiMD. Heck, I can still find Zip disks in many electronics/office supply stores. Try finding a blank MD/HiMD at stores other than Sonystyle. Sony has other priorities. They have blu-ray for high capacity media, and memory stick. Beta tapes and cassette tapes are still made because they have much more userbase than MD. As for using MD/HiMD for archiving, what's the point in using a media that you cannot find a reader to use it in the future?

[theblueraja]

I went to a local Fry's and I can find Beta tapes, 5.25" floppy disks, cassette tapes, etc, but no MD nor HiMD. Heck, I can still find Zip disks in many electronics/office supply stores. Try finding a blank MD/HiMD at stores other than Sonystyle. Sony has other priorities. They have blu-ray for high capacity media, and memory stick. Beta tapes and cassette tapes are still made because they have much more userbase than MD. As for using MD/HiMD for archiving, what's the point in using a media that you cannot find a reader to use it in the future?

Oh SHUSH, you! Why do you have to spoil the fun?! Yes, you're right, but let us live our fantasies in PEACE! Besides, some of us are STOCK PILING enough MD to last a lifetime anyway

[Strungup]

Mikami seems to be under the impression the Sony is still making Md's ,............ They are not , I have confirmed this from many retailers here in Japan , Zaiko ga nai , mada konai desu .

Sony has stopped production , ..........

[ozpeter]

Interestingly, people still use DV camera's and tapes and those can not be drag and drop from the unit to a computer.

Well,some people are - others (me for instance) are writing high definition video to SDHC cards and uploading to PC at high speed.

If I were Sony I'd be looking at putting an SDHC drive in the RH-1 and writing the files with no proprietary stuff, just like the other portable recorders do. The RH-1 differs from the rest of that pack by its smaller size and mini-desktop form factor. I'd bet it would sell quite well and most of the development and tooling has already been done.

[Mikami]

Mikami seems to be under the impression the Sony is still making Md's ,............ They are not , I have confirmed this from many retailers here in Japan , Zaiko ga nai , mada konai desu .

Sony has stopped production , ..........

I am just a typical English teacher I don't know anymore than anyone else. In fact I might be naive, but I believe Sony is a pretty transparent company and that the MZ-RH1 is still in production or that there is still a lot of back stock of them around. If you want to know why I think this it is basically because of the following that I based my assumptions on:

The most recent MD/CD/Cassette Tape Walkman catalog(March 2008) http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/products/catalog/WM_sou.pdf only mentions that the

MZ-E520 has been dis-continued (page 5/but page 3 in the PDF form; on the bottom right hand corner).

Now, I also find it rather strange that they did not mention the MZ-RH1 unit being discontinued nor the NetMD either? Furthermore, a page with links to interviews dedicated to the MZ-RH1 is still up and running http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/himd-rec/

I think it is safe to say that they are either still in production or that there are enough of them in stock to last until they make a something to replace it.

At BIC CAMERA both online and in Kawasaki city, where I live, these MD portable recording units are in stock.

MZ-RH1

http://www.biccamera.com/bicbic/jsp/w/cata...I-MD&SORT=2

MZ-N920

http://www.biccamera.com/bicbic/jsp/w/cata...%91%CE%89%9E,,1,

The MZ-EH70 and MZ-EH50 are also being sold as well as an MD business recorder.

At YODOBASHI online and in Kawasaki, Shinjuku, Yokohama, and other areas in Tokyo-to these portable units are still in stock and selling.

MZ-RH1

http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/cat_...4/52246170.html

MZ-EH70

http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/cat_...3/45174726.html

MZ-EH50

http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/cat_...3/45173289.html

Many of the stores on

楽天　Rakuten &

価格.com Kakaku still have stock as well.

And, the last time I checked

デンコードー(Denkodo) &

ヤマダ電機 Yamada Denki

have some, too.

P.S.

Now, just out of curiousity who told that HI-MD were no longer being made? From what you wrote it apears they only said they were still yet to arrive, rather than they are no longer in production. However, if someone really did tell you that were out of production I find that a little distrubing. If that place is any where around Kanagawa-ken, or from Tokyo-to to to the top of Tohoku in Aomori-ken could let me know. I travel around those areas sometimes and I might like to stop by or have a friend of the family stop by the store(but only for curiousity sake I have no feeling either way about this). Do you happen to know the store clarks name who said this? It can be Yodobashi or Bic camera because nobody at those places are authorized to say anything like that, I would guess.

Regards,

Mikami

[A440]

Your link to the MZ-N920 is down. Maybe someone bought the last one.

I would think these are old stock. Here in the US, the RH-1 (or MZ-M200, more of a profit margin) seems to be the last unit available. And one by one, stores are no longer carrying them--a pattern that leaves me to believe that they were also selling off old stock.

I just looked up MZ-RH1 on Amazon, which has a zillion retailers. None. There are 12 MZ-M200s available, including refurbs and used. But this is nothing like what you would see if stores were being regularly stocked and resupplied.

Maybe Sony is still making them for sale only in Japan. That would be nice.

But here, when J&R www.jr.com and Best Buy don't have something, that means it's no longer available. Those places carry every gadget they can get.

Also, when something is out of stock, electronics websites generally say "awaiting availability." It's the default. I think that people may be awaiting MD units for a long, long time.

[bland10000]

Your link to the MZ-N920 is down. Maybe someone bought the last one...

Aye Mikami, お久しぶりです...I was in KC last summer and saw a guy wearing 66 Eggos walking with a toddler; I wondered if that was you. I couldn't stop as I was in a taxi...

In June 2007, Amazon.co.jp and Amazon.com both posted "no longer being manufactured" on the page selling the MZ-RH1. The alert stayed up for about four weeks time.

I'm familiar with the catalog your link points at as I like to pick those up for reading during coffee breaks. I'm of the opinion that those pamphlets reflect the availability of the unit rather than information that they are under production. Sharp continued to release their catalog showing the DR77 recorder until the 12/2007 issue. The DR77 was only produced in 2004 and '05. Kenwood, Panasonic, and Victor had pamphlets available showing their portable minidisc units into late 2007. Only when the units were no longer available on shelves at major department stores did the pamphlets for portable audio devices stop advertising them.

I'm also reluctant to view a current thread regarding the RH1 with interviews as proof that the unit is still in production. If we go to Sonystyle, we can still order a red MZ-RH10P though that model has been discontinued for two years. I'm apt to believe that companies will continue to provide information for products still available on the market regardless of whether they are in production or out of production.

The days of the portable minidisc recorder and player have passed. The same companies that use to release minidisc recorders now tout their SD/miniSD memory recorders. The portable player market has long since given away to the HDD and now flash drive players. Instead of releasing different levels of minidisc players such as; high, mid, and entry (all with their own design), the portable players are released with different memory capabilities; though there are digital recorders still released that are leveled.

Will we see another high-quality portable minidisc device? I doubt it. The portable cassette and CD units today are plastic and if Sony releases another portable minidisc gadget, I think it will also follow in that same direction.

[ZosoIV]

The fact that there are still some units floating around may suggest that demand for them dropped off longer ago than we'd like to admit - as opposed to a sign that they are still being produced. Considering how rare MD seems to be out in the real world (save for Japan), I'd be REALLY surprised if Sony or anybody else was still devoting time and manufacturing capacity to MD. We like MD, but most people out there could give a rat's behind about it, and long ago moved to flash and HDD. They probably banged out a bunch of RH1's and stockpiled them, rather than keeping a production line going for a product that even they have admitted is on its way out.

As an aside, what is the state of MiniDisc in japan? Do you still see them on the streets a lot? Are units readily available? Or have the Japanese been smitten with solid-state and HDD offerings? I always thought of Japan as an MD paradise, a place where it was the norm, but I question if that's true circa 2008.

Edited April 13, 2008 by ZosoIV

[pata2001]

As an aside, what is the state of MiniDisc in japan? Do you still see them on the streets a lot? Are units readily available? Or have the Japanese been smitten with solid-state and HDD offerings? I always thought of Japan as an MD paradise, a place where it was the norm, but I question if that's true circa 2008.

Dunno about Japan specifically, but in Asia, where MD used to be popular too, most people now are either using cheapo tiny flash players or their cellphones for their portable music player. Today's cellphones can play music pretty well and most of them has expandable memory slot.

[BIGHMW]

I believe that MD (and in some capacities Hi-MD as well) will always have a cult folowing here in the States and abroad, while in Japan it will maintain a more mainstream status as far as an on-field recorder is concerned, I still use my legacy players and recorders to record onto blank MDs and Hi-MD exclusively as a high-capacity player and also for uploading of music and media (through my RH1 of course).

In fact, here is my latest lineup of both legacy and Hi-MD players and decks (including home, pro, car and portable), so here it goes folks, so please bare with me on this one:

First my legacy units:

Portables:

1 MZ-1 (Black)

1 MZ-R50 (Silver)

2 MZ-R70 (Silver)

1 MZ-R70 (Grey)

4 MZ-R700 (Silver)

Home:

1 MXD-D3

1 MDS-JE520

1 MDS-JE480

Pro:

1 MDS-E10

Car:

2 MDX-C5970

2 MDX-65

...and now for the Hi-MD units:

Portable:

3 MZ-NH700 (Silver)

2 MZ-RH710 (Black)

1 MZ-RH1 (Black)

...and more to come folks!

Plus I also have a TON of accessories, remotes, phones/buds/IEM's, cases and other unique accessories (including 4 Connects2 ASONWHAD001 interfaces) so I am pretty much set with the MiniDisc (both legacy and Hi-MD) format for years (maybe decades) to come.

I am currently stocking up on blanks, I just received 40 more new legacy blanks (Sony Premium Gold Series) for all my music, and will soon get more, as well as blank Hi-MD's (the cool blue ones, HMD1GL, the more reliable ones of course) as well for data storage, since I don't trust CD or DVD formats for my data storage, although magneto-optical media is slow in up/downloading, but it is more reliable and also you can always add onto it or subtract from it as well.

Edited April 15, 2008 by BIGHMW

[bland10000]

I believe that MD (and in some capacities Hi-MD as well) will always have a cult following here in the States and abroad, while in Japan it will maintain a more mainstream status as far as an on-field recorder is concerned...

Yes, a cult following like the Commodore 64 has.

Japan has moved on to flash and card media for in-field recording. Where MD will remain mainstream is only in its availability in shelf system stereos.

[BIGHMW]

Yes, a cult following like the Commodore 64 has.

Yes, and since you are talking about computers an video game systems from the 1980's, my Atari 5200 from 1983 (serial #141101, U.S.-made 4-port) as well, I still play mine every now and then, and would never think about getting an Xbox, PlayStation of Wii system to replace it.

You can find out more about vintage Atari syatems and the cult following they have at http://www.AtariAge.com and also http://www.AtariMax.com as well

[bland10000]

Yes, and since you are talking about computers an video game systems from the 1980's...

I'm talking about fan sites / clubs / cults that develop around products no longer manufactured rather than computers and video game systems.

...As an aside, what is the state of MiniDisc in japan? Do you still see them on the streets a lot? Are units readily available? Or have the Japanese been smitten with solid-state and HDD offerings? I always thought of Japan as an MD paradise, a place where it was the norm, but I question if that's true circa 2008.

Yes, you do still see them...well, rather the remote...on a daily basis but not en mass like five and ten years ago. As Pata mentioned earlier, flashplayers and cellphones are now the standard.

In department stores such as Yodobashi, Bic, Yamada, the only portable units still for sale are the; N920, EH50, EH70, and RH1. If you stop by a Don Quixote store, you'll still find the occasional Victor C17. To find any more variety of handhelds, you need to shop online at Yahoo Auctions or HardOff, which Guitarfxr has mentioned before and posted pictures of the rotating inventory.

Depending how you define 'norm', you could possibly say it is still 'norm' in Japan. If I'm sitting at a coffeeshop and I pull out my unit to change the disc, no one asks, "what is that?" because they already know it is minidisc. Department stores still have blank discs available and I can still buy 2-packs of Neige discs at my corner convenient store. I never cared for Neige styling but it is nice to see MD blanks still available on the shelf next to the cassettes at 7-11. If you define 'norm' as in the number of people using it versus other forms of portable audio devices, then 'no'.

[pata2001]

I'm talking about fan sites / clubs / cults that develop around products no longer manufactured rather than computers and video game systems.

Yes, you do still see them...well, rather the remote...on a daily basis but not en mass like five and ten years ago. As Pata mentioned earlier, flashplayers and cellphones are now the standard.

In department stores such as Yodobashi, Bic, Yamada, the only portable units still for sale are the; N920, EH50, EH70, and RH1. If you stop by a Don Quixote store, you'll still find the occasional Victor C17. To find any more variety of handhelds, you need to shop online at Yahoo Auctions or HardOff, which Guitarfxr has mentioned before and posted pictures of the rotating inventory.

Depending how you define 'norm', you could possibly say it is still 'norm' in Japan. If I'm sitting at a coffeeshop and I pull out my unit to change the disc, no one asks, "what is that?" because they already know it is minidisc. Department stores still have blank discs available and I can still buy 2-packs of Neige discs at my corner convenient store. I never cared for Neige styling but it is nice to see MD blanks still available on the shelf next to the cassettes at 7-11. If you define 'norm' as in the number of people using it versus other forms of portable audio devices, then 'no'.

Wow, a common sense response from one of the best MD fans. You're absolutely right. Liking MD is 1 thing, but reality is reality, even in Japan.

As for retro gaming, nothing beats the Super Genintari.

Edited April 15, 2008 by pata2001

[Mikami]

“Your link to the MZ-N920 is down. Maybe someone bought the last one”

No, such luck A440

There is still one MZ-N920 red in stock but more on the way

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%BD%E3%83%8B...7242&sr=8-2

The Silver MZ-N920 ships in six to ten days

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%BD%E3%83%8B...7242&sr=8-3

The Blue MZ-N920 ships in three to four days

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%BD%E3%83%8B...7242&sr=8-4

Bland10000様、

　　おひさしぶりですね！返事が遅れ申し訳ありません。

”In June 2007, Amazon.co.jp and Amazon.com both posted "no longer being manufactured" on the page selling the MZ-RH1. The alert stayed up for about four weeks time.”

Yes, but now both are selling them again. I'm guessing Sony had their factory in Malaysia make a few more. It's probably a “manufactured on demand” type of deal. And, obviously there are still people in the States, the UK, and in Japan buying these units. This is not to say that they are the most popular or the highest selling commodity, but that there are still enough people interested to warrant making a few more.

“The portable cassette and CD units today are plastic”

I've never seen a portable CD unit made out of anything other than plastic.

You, have a point with portable cassette players, on the other hand Sony still makes some of their Cassette players out metal some times. For, example the Sony WM-EX631 was made out of aluminum.

“if Sony releases another portable minidisc gadget, I think it will also follow in that same direction.”

If next year wasn't the 30th anniversery of Walkman I might agree with, you. However, since Sony is known to release aluminum cassette players for their anniverseries it is hard for me to imagine why they would not do the same for MiniDisc.

“I never cared for Neige styling but it is nice to see MD blanks still available on the shelf next to the cassettes at 7-11.”

Interesting! The 7/11 nearest to my APT sells

Victor 5MD-80LX 80 min and Maxwell

CUMD80MIXB.10P

The supermarkets(gorcery stores) have sony 10MDW80CCX usually.

(Rosen and Inageya)

Oh, I can also find floppy disk(Sony MDF-2HD) at these same places!

[bland10000]

Yes, but now both are selling them again.

They announced that the product was no longer being manufactured, not that distribution had ceased. If you make 100,000 units and only five a day are sold, it will still be in the consumer pipeline for several months.

It's probably a “manufactured on demand” type of deal.

That is a pleasant thought to hold on to but with each passing month, newer products are introduced that adapt to the changing wants / needs of consumers. At the same time that newer products are introduced, minidisc continues to fade into the past as the user-base is not being replenished.

I've never seen a portable CD unit made out of anything other than plastic.

The Sony D-NE 800 / 820 and D-NE900 / 920 were high-end aluminum-bodied CD players in the early years of this decade. These two product lines were the same except for the inclusion of the LCD display on the 900 series...

...looking around on Yahoo Auctions, there are some other CD players made of aluminum. These non-Sony aluminum players are like Sony's high-end CD players in one respect, they were manufactured prior to 2005. CD players are no longer a popular choice for portable audio so high-end models have ceased to be produced. If any more portable minidisc recorders / players are released, they too will follow the same trend and be made of plastic.

If next year wasn't the 30th anniversery of Walkman I might agree with, you. However, since Sony is known to release aluminum cassette players for their anniverseries it is hard for me to imagine why they would not do the same for MiniDisc.

Sony didn't release a minidisc unit to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Walkman so I don't expect them to release one to mark the 30th anniversary. Sony did celebrate the 10th year of minidisc with the MZ-E10 and MZ-N10 but did nothing for the 15th anniversary in 2007. Next year will be the 30th anniversary of the Walkman brand and today the Walkman brand name refers to SE cellphones and Sony NW-Axx / NW-EXX series flash players. I do think we will get limited editions of the flash-players since they are a flagship product, but not minidisc.

[edit] and they will probably continue the tradition of releasing an aluminum cassette player as the cassette player is what the Walkman brand name was established on.

Interesting! The 7/11 nearest to my APT sells

Victor 5MD-80LX 80 min and Maxwell

CUMD80MIXB.10P

The supermarkets(gorcery stores) have sony 10MDW80CCX usually.

(Rosen and Inageya)

Oh, I can also find floppy disk(Sony MDF-2HD) at these same places!

Our Daily Yamazakis and 7-11s only stock the 2-pack Neige but the nearby Tsutaya has both 5-pack and 10-pack of Coulers, Wa's, and Avox.

Edited April 25, 2008 by bland10000

[A440]

Yes, Mikami, that's a thriving market that certainly means minidiscs are rolling off the assembly line. One in stock. Four used and new. On Amazon in Japan, the world stronghold for minidiscs.

I'm sure Sony calls up the minidisc factory every month or so and says, "Hey, back to work! Somebody in Kyoto ordered a blue MZ-N920 on Amazon! Start up the production line!"

How could I have been so mistaken?

[Strungup]

I love Sarcasm

[jpteasy]

Back to the original question I am still using both and I will continue to use both MD and HiMD.

I have a number of MD units and at the moment one HiMD unit.

Whether Mini Disc will survive the onslaught of MP3, AAC and all the other formats is a question sadly I can answer. It will not. July last year I bought my wife for her birthday a Sony NW-A800 series flash player. The player is fantastic. My wife had her own MD portables for a while, but the flash player is perfect for her use. The player is compatible with Sonicstage, excepts all Atrac bitrates except 292kps and therefore you would be tempted to say MD's successful heir. Unfortunately for my birthday in March my wife bought me a Sony NWZ-A800 series flash player as I wanted it to play videos. While I'm not upset as I have my trusted HiMD I was disappointed to note that Sony have stopped using Atrac. Instead there is a conversion tool that converts Atrac to MP3!

Sony have realised that most of the consumers want simplicity at the cost of quality. Atrac is superior, but not everyone knows or uses it.

I am not sticking to MD / HiMD just because. At this moment I have bought a new harddrive and I am reripping all my CDs to a higher Atrac Advanced Loseless bitrate. I am sticking to it because Atrac is the best music compression available and I value what i listen to.

My first MD, an MZ-R35, is still going strong almost ten years since I was bought it for my 18th. I am confident that Sony have engineered their HiMD players to the same standard and so I am sticking to both.

MD and HiMD have different uses for me. For around the home I use MD as I have a 3 disc changer in the living room and bedroom. I use MDLP for in the car as it has the advantage of HiMD in the absence of a dedicated player. I use HiMD when I am listening on my headphones and I use either Hi-SP or Hi-LP dependant upon the music (Oasis greatest band in the world). I never go below 64kps.

I apply the same logic with the Network Walkmans we have as well. Never go below 64kps, but always Atrac.