Revival of the MD/Hi-MD Format

[george-london]

Hi

The reason I am starting this posting is to get people to put some pressure on Sony as a group to continue support and add more devices (especialy Hi-Fi Hi-MD Deck Components) into their firepower!

Will update the post soon with my thinking behind this.

Come on people, start voting!

Thank you.

George

[sfbp]

How can you revive it, if it's not already dead?

George, we all feel about MD the way you do. That's why we're here. But Sony is a company that wants to make money.

[KJ_Palmer]

Well, I voted Yes, just in case...!

[NickyJay]

How can you revive it, if it's not already dead?

George, we all feel about MD the way you do. That's why we're here. But Sony is a company that wants to make money.

They can make money from MD. A lot of it. MD is worth more than Gold right now.

See here if you don't believe

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/All-7-michael-jackson-mini-disc-studio-albums-L-K-/170487860858?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Music_Music_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item27b1de4e7a

Hardware is also in the thousands of dollars. Look here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-MDS-JA555ES-Minidisc-/150440607269?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CE_Cassette_RL&hash=item2306f57e25

Maybe Sony's inability to make money last year will force them to produce more minidisc related items. All they need to do is to market it properly and they will make a damn fortune.

[NickyJay]

Here's another idea which would make Sony millions -

Have consumers trade in 'old stock' but still functional MD units to be eligible for a discount on the latest MD technology. This would create a buzz and generate a wave of interest in the new units in these difficult times.

This marketing strategy could even threaten sales of the iPod (which break a few days after you buy them anyway). Damn I should be employed by Sony, I could turn it around for them within a year!

[Swordsage]

I agree that for all intents and purposes, MD is dead, but I still voted for it to be revived. Not just because of my love for the format, but there are some reasons that I think are viable.

One, despite the fact that great strides have been made in solid state/flash memory players and recorders, we STILL have CDs, vinyl and even CASSETTES (though blanks) being sold. The latter two don't have a large following of people using them, but there are enough to justify them being put out on the market. I feel the same can be said for MD, particularly if one takes a look at the sales going on in sites like Ebay.

Two, it's still a dependable format. From what I've seen, soild state versions of playing/recordable units are still prone to failure, either by units breaking down, and/or memory problems. Granted, this is improving, but considering that even to this day I can take a minidsc out of my player, throw it on the ground, pop it back in and it will still play, and they can last for a pretty long time in storage, and today's tech can't really match that, that says a lot. You have to be careful storing audio files in memory sticks, hard drives and such; one misstep and everything is gone. DVD and CD archiving are better, but they're still prone to scratching. This is the main reason why my albums and songs, as well as old lectures, interviews, and speeches I've recorded, are all backed up on minidisc.

Three, the demand is still there. I'm not naive enough to think it's a huge demand, but there is enough of us out there to support a niche market. And considering how cheap it must be to churn out blanks, there is no reason to think Sony or another company stands to lose a whole lot of money... provided they market this correctly. That is, of course, the rub; they haven't done this well in the past. But if they are selling to a group of people who are already bought on the idea, and they do it right, it can make them some money. And word of mouth will attract a few more customers. I'm confidant in that last part, since I still turn heads whenever I pull one of my recorders out, and new people show up here from time to time. So the spark of interest is there, just waiting for someone competent to fan into flames.

I'm not saying this could be easy to do... or that we have a chance in hell of ever seeing it happen. But it could be done.

[freddyjollo]

seems like some chancer is also trying to sell the JA333ES at £500

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-MDS-JA333ES-Mini-Disc-Player-sony-ES-very-RAREmdlp-/150448493155?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CE_Cassette_RL&hash=item23076dd263

some people lol

[bluecrab]

Hi

The reason I am starting this posting is to get people to put some pressure on Sony as a group to continue support and add more devices (especialy Hi-Fi Hi-MD Deck Components) into their firepower!

Will update the post soon with my thinking behind this.

Come on people, start voting!

Thank you.

George

I voted yes, of course. But I see George is in London, and my experience has been that if you say "minidisc" to someone from the UK, they at least know what you mean. Not so here in the good old US of A, mainly. For my part, were Sony ever to "revive" MD, I'd be lining up (that is "queuing up" for those in the UK ;-) ) to buy the latest and greatest. I'd be truly surprised if we see new MD.

[Stuge]

I voted "MD is dead" its a format which is DEAD AS A DODO " .Sony couldn't convince people, when they had time ,money ,now after its downfall how they Gonna convince people to use a format that 99% don't like .

These days people like to carry less and more music in their pockets .they don't care much about audio quality .keep in mind not everyone wants a audiophile gadget on the move .when you're travelling one tends to carry lite as possible .

[george-london]

I agree that for all intents and purposes, MD is dead, but I still voted for it to be revived. Not just because of my love for the format, but there are some reasons that I think are viable.

One, despite the fact that great strides have been made in solid state/flash memory players and recorders, we STILL have CDs, vinyl and even CASSETTES (though blanks) being sold. The latter two don't have a large following of people using them, but there are enough to justify them being put out on the market. I feel the same can be said for MD, particularly if one takes a look at the sales going on in sites like Ebay.

Two, it's still a dependable format. From what I've seen, soild state versions of playing/recordable units are still prone to failure, either by units breaking down, and/or memory problems. Granted, this is improving, but considering that even to this day I can take a minidsc out of my player, throw it on the ground, pop it back in and it will still play, and they can last for a pretty long time in storage, and today's tech can't really match that, that says a lot. You have to be careful storing audio files in memory sticks, hard drives and such; one misstep and everything is gone. DVD and CD archiving are better, but they're still prone to scratching. This is the main reason why my albums and songs, as well as old lectures, interviews, and speeches I've recorded, are all backed up on minidisc.

Three, the demand is still there. I'm not naive enough to think it's a huge demand, but there is enough of us out there to support a niche market. And considering how cheap it must be to churn out blanks, there is no reason to think Sony or another company stands to lose a whole lot of money... provided they market this correctly. That is, of course, the rub; they haven't done this well in the past. But if they are selling to a group of people who are already bought on the idea, and they do it right, it can make them some money. And word of mouth will attract a few more customers. I'm confidant in that last part, since I still turn heads whenever I pull one of my recorders out, and new people show up here from time to time. So the spark of interest is there, just waiting for someone competent to fan into flames.

I'm not saying this could be easy to do... or that we have a chance in hell of ever seeing it happen. But it could be done.

That is exactly my point of view!!!!

WHY does SONY still makes TAPE decks and recorders (that they are a PHILIPS format) and they STOPPED making MiniDisc Hi-Fi Deck Componets???? As for the comparisson of the MD to MP3 or any other DATA related format, MD was never intented to replace them! MD was intenetd to replase TAPE

So why is SONY and TEAC and other still make TAPE decs but they do not make MD decks????

I voted "MD is dead" its a format which is DEAD AS A DODO " .Sony couldn't convince people, when they had time ,money ,now after its downfall how they Gonna convince people to use a format that 99% don't like .

These days people like to carry less and more music in their pockets .they don't care much about audio quality .keep in mind not everyone wants a audiophile gadget on the move .when you're travelling one tends to carry lite as possible .

So please explain to me why is Sony STILL making TAPE decks???? Are they not dead dead?

See here at the UK Sony 2010 online catalogue: http://www.sony.co.u...player/tc-we475 They make TAPE recorders!!!!!! (A Philips format!!!)

So, what is going on? Philips got shares of SONY and they still promote a 1970's format where they made sony stop the production of much better TAPE REPLACEMENT format?

Also, this is the MISTAKE most people are making about the MD: Mini disk was the FIRST digital compession format on the market in 1992! But people, took the (still) unfinished MP3 format because it was cheap and cheerfull and allowed a massive piracy trent! (By the way I do NOT have a SINGLE piece of music that I have not paid for in my collection).

I bought the very first MZ-1 because I could see what it was offering and what it was replacing!

I DO HAVE an iPod and I have MOST of my music in there and travel with it. But the MD was not to replace the iPOD! Can you record, re-edit (without software) move to another machine (without a PC) or do anything (except palying music that is) that the MiniDisc does? NO!

And as we are talking about iPod, can someone ask Apple to stop producing products 10 years later than others and still promote them as "the first on the market and the most inovative yet"? Please we are not that thick!

Example: I had my fist Windows Mobile in the 1990's with multitascking, cut and paste etc etc and Apple is only now bringing multitasking on the iPhone in version 4, 15-20 yeras later!

I had a Windows XP tablet PC in 2002 and apple now did the iPad 8 years later and still promoting it like it has never happened before! lol

[NickyJay]

So why is SONY and TEAC and other still make TAPE decs but they do not make MD decks????

Teac still make MD decks. Here is their latest one, available only from Japan

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TEAC-MD-50S-New-Mini-Disc-Deck-/200475392155?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CE_Cassette_RL&hash=item2ead43b89b

[Stuge]

So please explain to me why is Sony STILL making TAPE decks???? Are they not dead dead?

Tape's were more popular than md .For the same reason many people still have old tapes (can't be said about md for sure ) .Even three years back, I was able to see recorded tapes being sold in my country ,but never saw md selling like tapes or cd's(though tapes might be still sold I'm not sure. )

[sfbp]

I'm still busy converting tapes to MD (and thence to PCHD) heheh, from a large collection. Some of my best restorations have come from Cassette, believe it or not - there were some excellent tape decks made over the years, though to get in the same class as reel to reel (as used by studios in the 50's and 60's) one had to spend a lot of money on a k7 deck.

I still see MD as an intermediate, rather than terminal, form.

[Bwil]

I voted yes. MD will never be anything but a niche product, but that niche could make money. I download the majority of my new music from Emusic, and MD is the best way for me to have a physical manifestation of that music. And, with all the different styles and colors of minidiscs, combined with labeling, there is a lot of potential personal expression with this format. There MUST be a market for that (however small).

Of course, the format is in the shape it's in partly *because* of Sony's "marketing." So I hold no hope of a revival. However, if any Sony people are monitoring this and want some ideas, don't hesitate to ask us!

[gidion27]

Voted yes to revival but lets face it. Who are we kidding. I own, like most of you guys, more than 1 replacement unit because deep down we know that it is over and done with... As said before, MD is dead as a dodo.

Still would love to see new units being legacy or HI.

[mmp64]

Never mind.

[md user]

Tape's were more popular than md .For the same reason many people still have old tapes (can't be said about md for sure ) .Even three years back, I was able to see recorded tapes being sold in my country ,but never saw md selling like tapes or cd's(though tapes might be still sold I'm not sure. )

I voted yes, but that is with my 'wishful mind' in place. From a business point of view, can we guarantee > X million units-per-year sales to justify the manufacturing start-up costs? One wonders whether only the Chinese &c. can do this - you know, where you can buy a portable tape player for

[sfbp]

BTW, sfbp - MD an intermediate format?????

Yup. I wanted to make CD's from my LP collection that went right back to high school days.

I only ever got into this because I read about it being the only way to get sound digitized, just about 10 years ago. The other exciting aspect was finding a sound card with digital in and out. Funny, the chip made by the same company in Taiwan (CMI) that made that orange doobry I got last week.

And it all finally came true with commonly available and inexpensive amps that have digital IN, to play all this stuff back.

But meantime made lots of CD's.

Stephen

[md user]

... for now, one can hardware audiophile mod/get audiophile modded DAP's with far more versatility than a MiniDisc portable player.

Are you thinking of headphone amps here? If not, I'd be interested in knowing what/where these mods are! (any website addresses?).

Yup. I wanted to make CD's from my LP collection that went right back to high school days.

I only ever got into this because I read about it being the only way to get sound digitized, just about 10 years ago. The other exciting aspect was finding a sound card with digital in and out. Funny, the chip made by the same company in Taiwan (CMI) that made that orange doobry I got last week.

And it all finally came true with commonly available and inexpensive amps that have digital IN, to play all this stuff back.

But meantime made lots of CD's.

Stephen

Makes sense, especially 10 years ago, for digitizing purposes. But, why did you aim to finish the 'production cycle' in CD (instead of stopping at MDs)? Just wondered.

mdmad.

[sfbp]

But, why did you aim to finish the 'production cycle' in CD (instead of stopping at MDs)? Just wondered.

Simply because at the time I had no means of digital playback of anything except CD's. Then, and now, no "proper" (sure I know there are weird exceptions) computer drive for a MD, either. To expand this answer a little bit - I recall making some "WAV" files for recorded sound from old radio programs, and figuring out that I only needed mono, and half the data rate (that's x4 right there). But nothing except the 'puter would play any of it. And nothing except the optical out (from a deck) would get into the computer, so I refused to buy NetMD anything at original retail (later lots of nice second hand stuff). You still cannot get opti out from a portable, which is absurd (to my mind).

Proved to be fairly sensible since most of the restrictions on getting stuff FROM MD to CD were not lifted until 2006 (RH1).

With HiMD+USB+optical and Amplifier with opti-in, maybe. But nothing like that when I started.

[NickyJay]

** BREAKING NEWS **

New MD system released -

"Today, Onkyo introduced yet another upgrade of this series with the X-N9EX and X-N7EX marking the 12th anniversary of the series since its first introduction on the Japanese market."

MD clearly continues to be popular in Japan. Although they don't appear to have much interest in Hi-MD. Maybe Onkyo have dropped their Hi-MD systems in favour of the older, more accepted format?

[bluecrab]

** BREAKING NEWS **

New MD system released -

"Today, Onkyo introduced yet another upgrade of this series with the X-N9EX and X-N7EX marking the 12th anniversary of the series since its first introduction on the Japanese market."

MD clearly continues to be popular in Japan. Although they don't appear to have much interest in Hi-MD. Maybe Onkyo have dropped their Hi-MD systems in favour of the older, more accepted format?

I thought this was a joke, but if it is, it's cleverly disguised all over the Web as the real thing.

Have to love this [mechanical, I would guess] translation:

"If You are stayed in Japan you be available to purchase the X-N7EX Mini Hi-Fi FR series for 44,800 Yen or about $491 and Onkyo X-N9EX Mini Hi-Fi FR for 59,800 Yen or around $655."

Oh well, I be not stayed in Japan.

[MD4ME]

Alas, cant really see there being a revival of the humble MiniDisc, sadly the publics 'romance' with buying/owning music has died. Its probably a 'generation' thing, but the excitement of visiting a record shop and buying the latest release from your favourite artist is a thing of the past, where's the fun in downloading tracks from i-tunes etc ? when instead you could be sitting for hours reading sleeve notes and deciphering lyric sheets. Similarly the accompanying music players have become so simplistic that they dont need a manual to operate them. Confronted with an operators manual of biblical proportions is not going to interest todays youngsters when they expect all the necessary info to be contained within a text message.

Its been noticeable to me that a lot of the later day MiniDisc players ( i'm thinking MZ-RH910, MZ-B10) that you see on ebay have been used by students at University to record lectures etc, i'm just wondering whats todays 'weapon of choice' is for students ? I've always considered the MiniDiscs recording capabilities have been its srongest selling point, and why my local Sony Centre still sells MiniDiscs and the MZ-RH1. So maybe all is not lost !

[sfbp]

Its been noticeable to me that a lot of the later day MiniDisc players ( i'm thinking MZ-RH910, MZ-B10) that you see on ebay have been used by students at University to record lectures etc, i'm just wondering whats todays 'weapon of choice' is for students ?

Actually I cannot imagine anyone using MD for this purpose when they can have one of Sony's extensive line of (flash) Voice recorders, some of which are "almost" as good as MD. Not to mention the many other companies in that market.

[NickyJay]

Actually I cannot imagine anyone using MD for this purpose when they can have one of Sony's extensive line of (flash) Voice recorders, some of which are "almost" as good as MD. Not to mention the many other companies in that market.

Superior editing features, smaller size, better sound quality....side by side MD still blows everything else away

[sfbp]

Superior editing features, smaller size, better sound quality....side by side MD still blows everything else away

Hmmm, I guess you haven't been reading my posts.

1. Superior editing features. Nope, you can divide quite nicely, and the rest is drag and drop with no restrictions. What we have been begging for, in fact.

2. Smaller size... no way. The unit which hold up to 8GB (depends on model) weighs 55g. Half the weight of a MD recorder, generally.

3. Better sound quality. Perhaps, but the inbuilt mics do a pretty good job, with external mike-ing possible. The major and only defect seems to be there is a bit of a bass roll off. For most purposes this can be compensated after the fact. For anything which isn't bass-heavy, I find the higher frequencies actually better on the flash recorder, and the graphs from CoolEdit (Audition) bear me out.

Go ahead, flame away! But really, Sony has finally done something just about dead right.

If you can't stand the loss of bass, use the PCM-M10 which has all the same attributes but weighs 400g (just short of a pound).

But for lecture notes... no way, Jose, MD is as dead as a duck IMO.

Stephen

[NickyJay]

When I say editing I mean editing.

That means -

Dividing tracks

Combining tracks

Renaming tracks

Erasing tracks

Changing track order

Inserting track marks at fixed intervals while recording

Have you seen these features on any other player?

[sfbp]

When I say editing I mean editing.

Dividing tracks YES

Combining tracks NO (but it comes with a free copy of Sound Forge - the fact that for MD it was inconvenient to edit tracks on the PC doesn't make this one into a virtue IMHO)

Renaming tracks YES (has to be connected to PC but so what?)

Erasing tracks YES

Changing track order: this one is interesting. If you want it as a player then there is a file system dependent ordering. Sorry. For recording purposes, presumably a non-issue. However you can create a new folder and move tracks into that folder in order, so you can easily achieve the result you want, I think.

Inserting track marks while recording YES

Overwriting or adding to existing tracks (one you didn't mention) YES.

Stephen

[NickyJay]

I meant to say inserting tracks at fixed intervals while recording. I highly doubt there is a portable out there which can do this.

For professional use people require units which can do these functions without a PC. When you're out in the field this is an invaluable advantage offered by minidisc.

Again I'll ask - can you name a portable which can do all of these things? If you can I and many others will go and buy it in a heartbeat.

[sfbp]

Instead of all the posturing, why don't you go and try one out? Buy it from somewhere with a good return policy.

I admit that the fixed interval time mark thing is not there. Your other complaints seem insignificant to me. Once you get reliable flash recording you will find that the 10 minute thing is no longer necessary. None of this nonsense of losing tracks because of power loss.

Even the PCM-M10 doesn't have the fixed interval time mark.

[NickyJay]

None of this nonsense of losing tracks because of power loss.

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Marantz_PMD650.html

Pre-write of UTOC to avoid loss of recorded material if power is unexpectedly lost.

[md user]

An interesting slight digression this - because I used my iRiver for the first time the other week, for the purpose of RECORDING.

Yes, I put Linkwitz mod's mics into the line in, and hey presto! Recorded live music.

Advantages? Yes, very small overall package, as sfbp suggests this was convenient compared to my normal MD setup (R410) and, no need to swap MDs after 80mins (if SP)!

Disadvantages? Yes, the flash is supposed to only be re-writable 500 times (min.) Although this is a big number, I have already bought a 2nd-hand flash player which constantly has write-errors (may be over-used). The iRiver does not have a VU meter (let alone a big accurate one) - being a player in emphasis.

Sound quality was similar, although as discussed by you all, if I record interviews in the field the MD is preferred for editing purposes and 'feel'. (i.e. I can see it happening).

Still, is all this going to revive MD/HiMD? Manufacturers are going to invest in flash technology - have they already released Pro Recorders for fieldwork yet? It's not in my knowledge, but I would be surprised if they haven't introduced editing features yet ...

Anyway, I'm enjoying MDs for the above in an amateur way!

Hope you all are!

mdmad.

[sfbp]

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Marantz_PMD650.html

Pre-write of UTOC to avoid loss of recorded material if power is unexpectedly lost.

That's not exactly the point. The PMD650 is not a HiMD device, and HiMD is the biggest culprit here. If you run out of power before or during the calculation of the disk id/encrypted TOC/checksum no amount of TOC cloning will save you (at least until the linux-minidisc guys finish their project). Countless stories exist of frustrated people who lost whole recordings this way. They always wind up here ready to throw bricks through windows (that's a small W).

The PMD650 is a very nice pro model but how can it compete with LPCM for pro recordings? I can get 12 hours LPCM on the ICD-SX950.

Anyway we were talking about using MD for voice recordings. I can't see how an 80m SP disk is that much use, to be honest, when for $123 I can get 17 hours of music quality recording (way more than that for speech only, like 750 hours!), dictation software as an optional extra (or with some models).

[sfbp]

For professional use people require units which can do these functions without a PC. When you're out in the field this is an invaluable advantage offered by minidisc.

I don't really understand this comment - I think you are arguing "post hoc, propter hoc". In 1998 when the PMD650 was sold (to you, presumably) the hard drive on a PC typically did not have 8 GB. So the "without a PC" seems to me to be shorthand for "make unlimited recordings without needing to transfer to the PC". Now you can have 8GB on board, most days the battery will run out before the memory. Not so back then, with only 160MB on a disk. In the PCM-M10 they've got a cute feature which allows you to change memory cards and keep the recording going by switching instantaneously to the internal memory; if I ever get the PCM-M10 I will try it out.

In fact most MD users have been begging for transparent access to music files on a recordable unit. Now they have it.

But (coming back to the "unlimited recordings" issue) surely in most cases you ended up transferring to the PC, somehow or other? I suppose digital out from a deck ca. 1998, but otherwise you're losing the digital character of the recording if you insist on mixing them into something else via the analog output of whatever MD device you're using. You can certainly do that with these too via the line-out/headphone socket.

And I looked again, there really are a host of useful features offered patchily or not at all by MD, such as a noise cut switch, DPC for playback, large visible recording meters with numeric dB display, etc. ozpeter's review covers all this quite nicely.

[philippeb]

So the "without a PC" seems to me to be shorthand for "make unlimited recordings without needing to transfer to the PC".

I jumped from analog tapes to MD exactly for that: the ability to make lossless copies of my recordings, without a PC.

[sfbp]

I jumped from analog tapes to MD exactly for that: the ability to make lossless copies of my recordings, without a PC.

Sure, but I know you have the unique, special, amazing MDS-W1. I think the ability to record in any quality including PCM and transfer to and from PC was exactly what I wanted out of the MD when I started. The fact we ended up getting this (well minus a small hitch over bass roll-off) from non-MD seems, well, ironic. Even HiMD only has this with significant restrictions and/or work by the user. Enough to defeat the non-technical user, for sure.

It has been said that MD and its various features/restrictions has all been about Sony trying to sell devices. Well, they sold me another one today, I plunked down $$$ for the 8GB version. Who knows maybe I should have got the PCM-M10 but

a. it doesn't do LPEC and the MP3 specs are poor, still

b. it weighs almost 1 pound.

Later, maybe... someone is selling it (the PCM-M10) on Amazon for $250!!

Stephen

[sfbp]

Yes, the flash is supposed to only be re-writable 500 times (min.)

Sorry, that's way off.

Most flash can be (and are guaranteed to be) rewritten 100,000 times and there are new generations (maybe out already) that can do 1,000,000. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory

The problem only really comes if the TOC area gets rewritten a lot. Most flash based devices have firmware that will remap blocks just like a HD does, as they wear out.

[bobt]

Just to jump in, I have had far more problems with flash than MD, lost data on 3 flash cards, different makes and sizes, will still stick with MD

[md user]

Sorry, that's way off.

Most flash can be (and are guaranteed to be) rewritten 100,000 times and there are new generations (maybe out already) that can do 1,000,000. See here: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Flash_memory

The problem only really comes if the TOC area gets rewritten a lot. Most flash based devices have firmware that will remap blocks just like a HD does, as they wear out.

Good news, then! I can't remember where I originally read about 1,000 cycles for flash (some years ago, and probably in a device manual) - I 'rounded down' (halved) to 500 and used the word 'min' to be on the safe side for the forum purposes. I've certainly believed in this figure for a long time now, and it was fairly authoritative at the time).

The player that has write errors is quite an old player (early model), maybe flash has improved by several magnitudes since then, or it may be some other cause.

Anyways, your information encourages me a little more to use flash; the only thing is: they said in the 1980's that CDs (and later, DVDs) 'would last forever' - now we are regularly told that they deteriorate over time and to only expect ~10+ years! I tend to be rather cautious of H/W claims these days - and backup CDs, HDDs &c. Oh yes, and 'plastic' and 'fibre-glass' were also supposed to last 'forever' when first introduced. (He said, looking past his computer through the window at a rather cracked and faded [i.e. falling apart] fibreglass caravan - from the 1980s!)

Nevertheless, my MD players still work (and, of course, I have several just in case :-) ), and I tend to have the same view as Bobt on this one at the moment.

And then there's the NON-replaceable batteries (I wonder why...), cheap click buttons, display crystals ...

Still, no point in being too pessimistic, it's all rather more affordable now and capable of good music! It's just that as the years go on I become less trusting in 'thinner' technology ...

Regards all!

And keep using MDs! Somehow, they 'seem' more robust :-]

mdmad

BTW Anybody else found flash reliable/unreliable under a lot of use? Would be informative to know of a 'real world' experience on this.

[sfbp]

And then there's the NON-replaceable batteries (I wonder why...), cheap click buttons, display crystals ...

Well, the ICD-SX750 I have in my hand has rechargeable (of course it takes Alkaline too) AAA's. Granted the flash memory is not removable but I have deep suspicion of the contacts on the removable flash cards. Whilst I use them for my camera, I have a nasty suspicion they (along with differences in specifications) are mostly responsible for the differences (ie failures) in behaviour seen by Bob and others.

Maybe a lightweight voice recorder will come out from Sony that also has removable memory cards. Meantime there is the PCM-M10. So, I don't think there's any question of them "going back".

I cannot claim expertise on the long term survivability of MD (magnetic) vs flash (charge) but it seems to me at heart they are merely two sides of the same coin.

Cheers

Stephen

And the buttons are definitely high quality (see ozpeter's review)