comparison review

[DSP]

Hi guys,

as promised here's my comparison review between NW-A805 and Creative Zen vision:M. Since I was busy anyway I thought I'd be fun to take in NW-S703 too.

I'll start of with saying that these are my opinions and that soundquality is a sucjective matter. So one could totally disagree with me.

First some pictures: (they are of low quality. Sorry for that)

Thickness comparison between Zen and NW-A805:

The supplied earbuds; (from left to right) Creatives', NW-A805s' and NW-S703s'.

Since most people here know the devices I'll keep the talk about devices in general short and just give some main features.

Creative Zen vision:M

- 262K QVGA LCD screen

- 30GB HDD

- 25mW output per channel

- 97Db SNR

- Video (DivX, XviD, WMV, MPEG, AVI) audio (MP3, WMA, WAV) Photo (JPEG, BMP)

- Built-in voice recorder and FM tuner. Touchpad and tactile button interface.

Sony NW-S703FB

- ''Full color'' OLED screen

- 1GB flash

- 5mW output per channel

- SNR??

- Audio (MP3, AAC, WMA, WAV, ATRAC3)

- Built-in FM tuner, Noisecancelling and intelligent functions

Sony NW-A805B

- 262K QVGA TFT-LCD screen

- 2GB flash

- 5mW output per channel

- SNR??

- audio (MP3, WMA, AAC, WAV, ATRAC3) video( MPEG4, AVC) photo(JPEG)

- Intelligent functions.

Now we'll go on to the exciting part: the comparison.

Media features:

the media features on both NW-A805 and Zen are very well integrated into the whole package. allthough the Zen has a slight edge here. You can just Drag&drop various formats to the Zen and it plays without complains. The Walkman only accepts MP4 and AVC and has crippled drag&drop support. You'll end up using image converter 3 all the time. Wich is a very good piece of software I must say. Video quality on both devices is very good and smooth. Though its seems that NW-A805 has a bit better CPU. It's faster in some things. This could also be due to the difference in memory type (HDD vs. Flash). Screens are both very sharp and vivid but NW-A805's screen is sharper since it hase the same amount of pixels on a much smaller surface. On the other hand Zen's screen is brighter.

Photo features are about equal although the Walkman loads the thumbials much faster.

Overall I can say that the media experience on both devices is excellent. I don't have a favourite. It could be the Walkman since it's lightening fast (i'll come back to this later) but it could also be the Zen due to easier transfer and larger screen. But If you buy the device only for video I'd recommend the Zen. More space, bigger screen, easier transfer.

Soundquality:

Here comes the exciting part. Soundquality.

I teste SQ on all three devices with the very same pair of Sennheiser CX300's and The very same tracks:

- Ilse Delange / Great escape

- Lilly Allen / smile

both ripped from an ORIGINAL retail CD with EAC in LAME 3.97 MP3 @ 320Kbps/44.1Khz

FLAT:

I'll start with a flat comparison. So ALL additinal audio functions OFF. No EQ, clearbass, clearstereo, NC, DSEE, VPT, normalizer or anything.

It's a way to see what the audio technicians really have to offer back at Sony's or Creative's.

Who ranked last? Sony NW-S703. Its sound compared to NW-A805 and Zen is way to muddied. Just too much bass, or too little trebble. And that without EQ!

Nothing more to say about that. End of story. The zen and NW-A805 are close to each other but I have to say that NW-A805 has an edge over the Zen. The zen sounds very good. Nice trebble, good mids and clear lows. But The walkman is a bit more vivid, just a tiny bit. And is somehow brighter. The soundcharacter is brighter. It also has a bit better bass. I must say the Zen is better in transitions in songs. If a sony really kicks in, for example after the intro, The transitions with the zen goes smoothly. With the walkman it can sometimes be harsh.. but it's not often, and not really disturbing. But it's one pont for the Zen.

But all in all I must say that The NW-A805 wins this test. Zen comes close, but not close enough and NW-S703 dissapoints a bit....

TWEAKED:

As you know we all use the sound enhancement funcions on our DAP's. So I'll now set the sound the way I like it best for that player and compare the three DAP's again. It's more like real-life, so a better test for possible future owners of one of these devices.

What did I turn on?

NW-S703:

- EQ

- Clearbass

- clearstereo

NW-A805:

- EQ

- Clearbass

- Clearstereo

- DSEE

Creative zen:

nothing.

Who ranked last? The Zen. It sounds very good, But since the EQ sucks you can't really adjust the sound. So it stays the same sound. It's quite good though, But just no competition for the Walkmans. NW-S703 came in 2nd. As you could read in my earlier comparison between Zen, NW-S703 and NW-A1200 it's relatively close between NW-S703 and the Zen. But You can adjust the NW-S703 so much that the sound comes out how you like it anyway. It has a good bass and enough trebble. the sound is a bit wider and stereo separation is better. NW-A805 on the other hand Beats both the Zen and the NW-S703 hands down. NW-A805 sound much moe vivid, clearer and richer with more detail. It also sounds wider. DSEE actually works very well and the other functions are imo a bit better then on the NW-S70x series. But this could also be due to another DSP/audio chip.

I'd mind you that the Zen has one unbeatable feature: a stunning 97Db SNR. It's ALWAYS noticable. The Zen is just DEADsilent. Both walkmans have a background noise/hiss probably due to bad SNR. It's not really disturbing but noticable.

Now I'd like to come back to the fact that the NW-A805 is lightening fast. When you stop your song, Power off the walkman (so no standby) and then push the ''play'' button you get the idea that the music starts playing even before you've touched the damn button. And it starts with no distortions or anything like that.

This really caught my attention. I've never had a DAP (flash or HDD) that started op this freakin' fast even not in standby mode. I really like this.

Maybe anybody else with a NW-A80x could explain a bit better to the people what I mean?

Well, after all we can say That the NW-A805 beats both the Zen and NW-S703 hands down. S703 is very good, especially the NC and due to the adjustement possibilites and the Zen is still a pleasant surprise to me and shines in silent areas with its 97Db SNR.

If you have ANY questions feel free to ask. I'll be happy to answer them.

I hope this was usefull to you.

greetz

Edited May 4, 2007 by DSP

[Jrome]

Very nice review....my friend has the Zen vision: M...and even he has to admit that he should have gotten a NWA800 due to the crisp picture, speed, etc. All my friends have ipods..and when i was going to get it..they said i should get an ipod and that the sony sucks...when i brought it to school...they said ipods suck..and they should have gotten a sony because 1. Bigger, Better screen 2. way better audio 3. Very nice style and design 4. very fast also

I have to admit..this is a great player that Sony can build on to compete with iPod...(more advertising >.<)$$

[dura_]

Thanks DSP, very to the point, for now this anwers all my questions.

The 8xx sure sounds attractive. My problem is, I got a 20 Gb library, made for my A3000. I can loose 4 gb, but not 12 gb, so I hope there will once be a 8xx 16Gb. in the meanwhile, the 8Gb version starts to look more nad more tempting...hmmm.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Hi guys,

...

Now I'd like to come back to the fact that the NW-A805 is lightening fast. When you stop your song, Power off the walkman (so no standby) and then push the ''play'' button you get the idea that the music starts playing even before you've touched the damn button. And it starts with no distortions or anything like that.

This really caught my attention. I've never had a DAP (flash or HDD) that started op this freakin' fast even not in standby mode. I really like this.

Maybe anybody else with a NW-A80x could explain a bit better to the people what I mean?

...

greetz

Thanks for the comparison review. DSP you did a great jobs, and very well balanced.

An addition to what DSP, mentioned earlier. The NW-A800 series seem to turn on with one press. With the NW-A800 the lag time between when you press the any button to the time it turns on is very short. This is the time from when you press any button to the time that the screen turns on. It seems instantaneous.

Very nice review....my friend has the Zen vision: M...and even he has to admit that he should have gotten a NWA800 due to the crisp picture, speed, etc. All my friends have ipods..and when i was going to get it..they said i should get an ipod and that the sony sucks...when i brought it to school...they said ipods suck..and they should have gotten a sony because 1. Bigger, Better screen 2. way better audio 3. Very nice style and design 4. very fast also

I have to admit..this is a great player that Sony can build on to compete with iPod...(more advertising >.<)$$

Jrome, There is nothing that can compete with iPod, because the iPod owners are very influential. However the best advertisement for the NW-A800 and other Sony products are those who actually use the product. So, Jrome if you show this product to more people, then Sony will be more successful. Apple success is based on this type of advertisement.

Jrome here is a though for you. When you reach the last track on the NW-A800 how can you get to the first track? How do you do this on the iPod-nano? I suspect that the NW-A800 acts more logically, but I may be wrong. On the NW-A800 just go to the next track, give it a try.

[Old skool D]

DSP, Great comparsion. after listening to the 806 yesterdat I was blown away.Had to get one

[cool_rock]

wow excellent review. can u plz give the review of sony nwe016 if it is available. and does clear stereo and clear bass effect the fm. well i dont like vedios alot. thats why i m thinking to go for sony sports walkman. although sony nwa 808 is very attractvie but a bit pricey. and i only want music. but it is not as slicker nwe016 is

hm plz play a review of it also. they r extremely sleek. and i currently have sony nwe005 i love it i hate ipods and creative boxes. one more thing which u forget to mention is that creative has a poor battery life while sony beats eveything in battery and nwa 808 have 30 hrs of audio and 8 hrs of vedio. but why there is no fm if it have a fm i would have wished for it

Edited May 6, 2007 by cool_rock

[DSP]

About the battery life:

You noticed very good that I didn't mention that. I didn't because most people (especially the people I wrote this for) know the story about battery life and sony.

Creative Zen vision:M's batery life is very acceptebale. It never disturbed me. But NW-A80x's batterylife is indeed way better. Though you have to keep in mind that the zen uses HDD rather than Flash and sony uses it's advanced VME. But you're rght in saying that sony is kng and master if it comes to battery life.

But then, every product has its strenghts, and weaknesses. And so do The NW-A80x and Creative zen have.

greetz

[markey]

About the battery life:

You noticed very good that I didn't mention that. I didn't because most people (especially the people I wrote this for) know the story about battery life and sony.

Creative Zen vision:M's batery life is very acceptebale. It never disturbed me. But NW-A80x's batterylife is indeed way better. Though you have to keep in mind that the zen uses HDD rather than Flash and sony uses it's advanced VME. But you're rght in saying that sony is kng and master if it comes to battery life.

But then, every product has its strenghts, and weaknesses. And so do The NW-A80x and Creative zen have.

greetz

Does this model claim to have the same battery life as the NW-S7xx range or is it similiar? Also does it have the 3 min charge function?

[DSP]

I'm not sure of the 3mins charge fucntion.

I can say that batery life is excellent. The claim 30Hrs. But this is always under ideal circumstances.

Take an averag 25Hrs and you'll have a good idea.

NW-S70x have 50Hrs battery life. So they're not in the same range. NW-A80x series use larger screens too.

greetz

[markey]

I'm not sure of the 3mins charge fucntion.

I can say that batery life is excellent. The claim 30Hrs. But this is always under ideal circumstances.

Take an averag 25Hrs and you'll have a good idea.

NW-S70x have 50Hrs battery life. So they're not in the same range. NW-A80x series use larger screens too.

greetz

That's good, obviously a hell of a lot better than the A1200. I wasn't too impressed by the battery life of that particular model.

[dura_]

My main reason for getting an A8xx was that the batterylife of my A3000 was really very bad.

Under 10 hrs with Atrac 256 kbs, closer to 5 hrs, like an old ipod.

I think the internal memory was so small that it had to acces the HD constantly.

[markey]

My main reason for getting an A8xx was that the batterylife of my A3000 was really very bad.

Under 10 hrs with Atrac 256 kbs, closer to 5 hrs, like an old ipod.

I think the internal memory was so small that it had to acces the HD constantly.

Yep, exactly the same problem. That particular range was not one of Sony's greatest offerings. Good sq but that was about it I'm afraid.

Edited May 7, 2007 by ANGRYBADGER

[DSP]

I didn't find SQ on NW-A1x00 range not that good actually..... it was good.. but could be better.

greetz

[Jrome]

Jrome, There is nothing that can compete with iPod, because the iPod owners are very influential. However the best advertisement for the NW-A800 and other Sony products are those who actually use the product. So, Jrome if you show this product to more people, then Sony will be more successful. Apple success is based on this type of advertisement.

Jrome here is a though for you. When you reach the last track on the NW-A800 how can you get to the first track? How do you do this on the iPod-nano? I suspect that the NW-A800 acts more logically, but I may be wrong. On the NW-A800 just go to the next track, give it a try.

Actually iPod owners aren't really that influential...half of them have no clue what they are talking about and they just bought it because everyone else had one so they guessed it was good. I mean...I was comparing sound quality..and my friend was like.. "it's all about the headphones" ..so i was like okay..let's switch....still better sq....in his face...after that he just said w/e ipods still best. I was like yeh okay lol. He clearly had no knowledge other than seeing that everyone has one.

And yes, Sony is smart in that it allows you to go from the last track to the first track...where as iPod...you have to go alll the way back up..sigh...iPod nano...when will they ever learn

[cool_rock]

well it dont have quick charge i think so but it dont have fm thats why it is not attracting me. well forget abt battery its sony i have a sony nwe005 and when i set it to super save mode i am getting what i want 28+ hrs of mp3 what else u want. so i dont know abt creative but definetly sony is going to beat everything out there specially ipods. people are just ipod freeks. and nothing else its foolish to waste a hell lot of money on an ipod bcoz it dont have fm and its battery sucks. i like flash players more than harddrive bcoz they r quiet durable.and strong and smat. i guess a 4 gb flash would be enough.

well can u plz tell me does clear stereo and clear bass technology works on fm also. or just on ur music files. and also how much band equalizer does it have and how much sound riches with clear stereo and clear bass ya i have read that VME is the secret of sony which is quiet smart i lvoe it. thats why i m a sony fan,,,

and i dont see any cons in nwa 808 besides fm. thats the best looking vedio player ever made.

[DSP]

well guys,

As usual I'm always on the look and in the market for better or different soundquality.

I've read a lot about Cowon ''iAudio'' players. So I've been looking around for a while and came across a good deal on a Cowon iaudio F2.

I couldn't resist and ordered one. I'm expecting it to be here any moment.

It has a whopping 95Db SNR, many sound enhancement functions by BBE and a whopping 60mW output. Along with features like text viewing, photo, video, FM, line in etc.

But I just care for the sound.......

My question to you guys, looking to the interests in My previous comparisons, is if you would like a comparison between lets say NW-A805 and Cowon F2?

Don't want to bother you with anything, but just thought it'd be interesting. Since many people here care for SQ and it's a fun way to get to see how sony really does compared with other players.

Greetz

[dura_]

My question to you guys, looking to the interests in My previous comparisons, is if you would like a comparison between lets say NW-A805 and Cowon F2?

Certainly DSP! Me for one, I'm wondering how the Cowon sound compares to the Sony sound.

Speaking of which, as SQ is a matter of taste, I find the A8xx to sound clearer and brighter then the A3000.

In fact I prefered the smoothness of the A3000, because I listen to smooth quiet music to relax (in all other aspects I prefer the A8xx).

But of course this is a matter of taste; if you like treble sparkle and/or more upbeat music, you'll prefer the A8xx.

In more 'absolute' terms, SQ on the Axx is very good, detailed, extended and dynamic without tonal deviances.

[DSP]

ok,

Thx for the reply dura. I'll do a review as soon as I have time and the unit arrives.

You say A3000 has more smoothness. For listening to smooth and relax music I think A80x does a very good job too, since it has clearbass.

I listen to that kinda music too, and I like the way clearbass enhances the warmth of the sound and the strengthening of for example the violins.

What do you think?

greetz

[dura_]

I love the way clearbass adds weight, but I think using the EQ in qhatever way adds a tiny bit of unwelcome sharpness, so at the moment I got all options off.

BTW DSP, did you notice in the manual it says clearstereo is only advised with the supllied headphones?

Gives the impression clearstereo seems to try to correct anomalies attached to this phone, perhaps because of its asymetrical design=

[DSP]

well guys,

So far I've had no time for a review..... sorry for that.

I can just quickly say what I thin of the Cowon F2...

just awsome. So much power in such a small package. Unbelievable. It has a very powerfull sound. 60mW outup results in high clarity, deep details and powerfull reproduction. In a rock track the power stays.... wich is normally lost due to the low powered MP3 players muffling it all up...

But not with this baby. Where my NW-A805 doesn't seem to get all the power out of a rock song this Cowon does.

Now I didn't say that Cowon does sound BETTER then NW-A805... I haven't desided this yet.. but it's a truly magnificant DAP... that's for sure..

And I don't say this often... Creative's Zen was very good.... It surprised me with it's SNR... But this baby just has me all numb for now....

I'll post the review as soon as possible...

But I thought I'd share this with you guys,

greetz

[Zizone_]

Thanks for the review. Are you sure NW-A800 series support WAV? Because Japanese Sony site says it supports MP3, AAC, ATRAC, ATRAC Advanced Lossless and WMA but does not mention linear PCM. Thanks.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Thanks for the review. Are you sure NW-A800 series support WAV? Because Japanese Sony site says it supports MP3, AAC, ATRAC, ATRAC Advanced Lossless and WMA but does not mention linear PCM. Thanks.

Zizone,

I suspect that the mention of WAV is just a typo. I have been able to successfully import WAV files into SonicStage as PCM format, or to be precise PCM(WAV). Of course this will have to be transcoded if the format is not supported by the ATRAC player.

Edited May 13, 2007 by Shinji Ikeda

[DSP]

well guys,

So far I've had no time for a review..... sorry for that.

I can just quickly say what I thin of the Cowon F2...

just awsome. So much power in such a small package. Unbelievable. It has a very powerfull sound. 60mW outup results in high clarity, deep details and powerfull reproduction. In a rock track the power stays.... wich is normally lost due to the low powered MP3 players muffling it all up...

But not with this baby. Where my NW-A805 doesn't seem to get all the power out of a rock song this Cowon does.

Now I didn't say that Cowon does sound BETTER then NW-A805... I haven't desided this yet.. but it's a truly magnificant DAP... that's for sure..

And I don't say this often... Creative's Zen was very good.... It surprised me with it's SNR... But this baby just has me all numb for now....

I'll post the review as soon as possible...

But I thought I'd share this with you guys,

greetz

Well,

I've been very busy lately. So my review has been delayed a couple times..I'm sorry for that.

Keep the ''pictorials and reviews'' topic in sight tomorrow as I probably will post the review somewhere tomorrow.

again, sorry for the delay.

greetz

[Zephir]

Nice review DSP! it seems that i would have to go with the nw-a808 then. the player itself is very impressive, and it also comes with decent headphones. I have always been a fan of sony soundquality and style so it looks like i will continue the trend once more

[veggiemusician]

Hi DSP, I got the 705 a few days ago for £49... is it worth taking it back and getting an 805 for £119? Is the Sound quallity worth £70 more? Ive also got a VisionM and think the sony is beter.

Also you can make your ZVM sound like a sony with this.... get rid of euro firmware then load the USA one on. Set EQ to +12 -5 -5 - 4 -2... sounds drastic but it really works

[DSP]

I think you should get an NW-A805. As far as SQ is concerned.

I've tested all units very good and studied the results but ZV:M can't beat A sony. Not even with EQ.

But if you read carefully you'll se that I almost thought the ZV:m to be better then NW-S703.

greetz

[juli_]

I've tested all units very good and studied the results but ZV:M can't beat A sony. Not even with EQ.

But if you read carefully you'll se that I almost thought the ZV:m to be better then NW-S703.

greetz

Edited June 11, 2007 by juli

[fahad2mail]

i have a 705fb and its good. i found that the bass and clarity is more than my 2 gb ipod nano(2nd generation) version.

[veggiemusician]

I think Im going to wait for the A808 to comedown in price - I payed £49 for my 2 gig S705 and will wait till 8 gig A808 gets under £150 before I think about it. I listened to on in shop and thought it sounded very good, but only had shop headphones to listen to - not EX82s.

I do think the S705 is a bit better than ZEN Vision M - may be not as clear as the Zen but I find it more musicial.... However my iPaq 4150 as an audio player trashes the S705, ZVM and even A808 in sound quality. It has a much cleaner and drier sound - yet bass extends a LOT deeper than my S705 yet its not boomy at all.

[juli_]

I think Im going to wait for the A808 to comedown in price - I payed £49 for my 2 gig S705 and will wait till 8 gig A808 gets under £150 before I think about it.

Good idea, it's really expensive at the moment and it's bound to come down in price once the novelty wears off. I have to think about a case too as I don't want to be bashing the screen just yes, so that adds more money to it!

I do think the S705 is a bit better than ZEN Vision M - may be not as clear as the Zen but I find it more musicial.... However my iPaq 4150 as an audio player trashes the S705, ZVM and even A808 in sound quality. It has a much cleaner and drier sound - yet bass extends a LOT deeper than my S705 yet its not boomy at all.

Interesting as Amazon.com mentioned this about the iPaq: Overall, the sound quality from the player didn't match the crispness displayed by the best players we've tested, and the flat bass response was particularly disappointing. It's hard to notice with the wimpy earbud headphones that come with the iPAQ, but it's immediately apparent when a more capable set of headphones is connected to the device.

Just goes to show how difficult it is to 'hear' the same sound doesn't it? My boyfriend has a Creative Zen Touch which he uses with really cheap 10-dollar headphones and he thinks the sound is brilliant - whereas I think it's rubbish, so we agree to 'disagree'!

[veggiemusician]

Interesting as Amazon.com mentioned this about the iPaq: Overall, the sound quality from the player didn't match the crispness displayed by the best players we've tested, and the flat bass response was particularly disappointing. It's hard to notice with the wimpy earbud headphones that come with the iPAQ, but it's immediately apparent when a more capable set of headphones is connected to the device.

Just goes to show how difficult it is to 'hear' the same sound doesn't it? My boyfriend has a Creative Zen Touch which he uses with really cheap 10-dollar headphones and he thinks the sound is brilliant - whereas I think it's rubbish, so we agree to 'disagree'!

Do you have a link? Does not sound like the same player - The 4150 never has come with earphones! on full bass settings my eyeballs wobble on a bassy track on my UM2's.

Im a Professional musician with 4 degree's in music so I trust my ears.... The iPaq beats most mp3 players out there... its got the same audio chip set as iriver H140. Also its got a great amp on it!

[juli_]

Do you have a link? Does not sound like the same player - The 4150 never has come with earphones! on full bass settings my eyeballs wobble on a bassy track on my UM2's.

You're right, it wasn't the same model. I guess if you're using UM2's with it, you'll get all the bass you need! I must go and check out the 4150 now and do comparisons!! This is from cnet:

Performance of HP iPaq Pocket PC H4150: Sound is quite good; supposedly the Windows Media Player upgrade to version 9.0 provides a boost in quality.

I take cnet reviews with a pinch of salt as they said the ZV:m had 'excellent' sound and I certainly didn't agree with that! And they don't bother to say which headphones they used apart from saying: 'Using our favourite Sony earbuds the sound was improved".

As so much depends on the headphones, you'd think they'd mention that first! Anyway, have to rip some more CDs now!

[veggiemusician]

Do you have a link? Does not sound like the same player - The 4150 never has come with earphones! on full bass settings my eyeballs wobble on a bassy track on my UM2's.

You're right, it wasn't the same model. I guess if you're using UM2's with it, you'll get all the bass you need! I must go and check out the 4150 now and do comparisons!! This is from cnet:

Performance of HP iPaq Pocket PC H4150: Sound is quite good; supposedly the Windows Media Player upgrade to version 9.0 provides a boost in quality.

I take cnet reviews with a pinch of salt as they said the ZV:m had 'excellent' sound and I certainly didn't agree with that! And they don't bother to say which headphones they used apart from saying: 'Using our favourite Sony earbuds the sound was improved".

As so much depends on the headphones, you'd think they'd mention that first! Anyway, have to rip some more CDs now!

Im uninpressed with ZVM - its fine but wont sent the world alight. The 4150 has a very dry gritty sound thats quite bright(in a good way - not tinny or harsh)... yet has a deep bass grunt Ive been unable to find in any other MP3 player. I do use the Superbass function on it - and keep EQ flat.